I have a staunchly Republican friend with a crap load of student debt

[Quixote1818]

He is a fundy Christian who likes Trump but not majorly into politics but he pays attention to some extent and watches Fox News. He flat out told me he would vote for Warren so that would go away. Fox News evidently talks about Warren and relieving student debt a lot not knowing a lot of Republicans are thinking to themselves, "Humm, that would be kind of nice to get rid of that $50,000 debt that has been around my neck for 20 years".

I think it's a winning issue and could pull in a small % of Republicans in the General.

[zipplewrath]

1. Or pull in people who might otherwise not vote.

This is the kind of "single issue" position that can often get the recalcitrant to participate in an election.

[PassingFair]

2. I think she has broad appeal.

She can pull votes in the “fly-over states. Personally, I would be happy if she just cut the interest owed.

[tblue37]

3. K&R for visibility. nt

[HopeAgain]

4. She has a lot of winning issues.

Smart doesn't seem to count like it used to. I saw posts saying she was unelectable because she reminded them too much of a school marm

[Ohiogal]

27. I used to hear that school marm garbage about Hillary, too

[Doodley]

5. It will be used as a weapon against "socialist" policies that Trump

will claim would ruin America and the best economy ever.

The answer is for Warren to never speak about student debt without saying in the same sentence that it will be paid for with a 2% annual tax on the 75,000 families with $50 million or more in wealth.

[watoos]

7. What about the Socialist policy of paying farmers billions

who lost markets because of Trump's tariffs?

[Ferrets are Cool]

10. Touche'

[Doodley]

21. Trump supporters don't care when he does something

socialist or even if he runs up the budget deficits to over a billion dollars. We won't win 20/20 by saying, "what about Trump?"

[Celerity]

26. so will Biden's call for free university tuition

Biden Calls for 4 Years of Free College

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/22/biden-calls-for-4-years-of-free-college

Joe Biden Calls For Free Public College For All

https://thinkprogress.org/joe-biden-calls-for-free-public-college-for-all-fbe46efdfce7/


fuck Trump and fuck those Rethug robber baron-enablers

[mr_lebowski]

53. I support the general idea, but I think calling it 'free' is a stupid framing ...

I don't like Bernie saying it, I don't like Joe saying it.

Calling things 'FREE', when they absolutely, very CLEARLY, can NEVER BE 'FREE' ... just opens a door of attack from the other side that really doesn't need to be opened.

There's much better ways of framing the idea, and it should include similar financial help for people who do not qualify and/or do not want to go to a traditional college, such as those who prefer to attend a trade school, or prefer to be trained by the military.

I also don't want a bunch of taxpayer money going to for-profit BS private colleges either unless they meet very strict academic criteria.

[Celerity]

55. It is only no tuition at public universities, not private

[patphil]

6. Well, I'm 72, so my debt is long gone

But, my daughter still has a big college debt, so Elizabeth Warren sounds good to me also.
And then there is the rest of Senator Warren's allure.
She has a knack for being a real, genuine, concerned, honest person.
I love her dearly, and would vote for her in a nanosecond.

Patrick Phillips

[EveHammond13]

11. can't remember where - just saw a news story about people that age STILL with student debt

[Celerity]

28. Seniors owe billions in student loan debt: "This will follow me to the grave"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/student-loan-debt-seniors-owe-billions-in-student-loan-debt-this-will-follow-me-to-the-grave/

[EveHammond13]

50. yes

[Pobeka]

8. We worked hard and put two children through college

We gave up a lot of things we could have had to get the children through college.

They just recently graduated.

The unfairness of forgiving debt to those to made it through with only loans, and forgiving that debt, versus those of us who paid along the way and get nothing is staggering.

If the way the debt is handled is more on along the lines of a reasonable rate of interest would have been 3 or 4% and students were victims of usery, then I could get behind eliminating the portion of debt above the 3 or 4%.

[EveHammond13]

12. what if one of your kids wants to marry someone who has massive student debt

wouldn't it be better to start the marriage without that kind of debt burden

[Pobeka]

23. Yes, but that's not relevant to the question of fairness n/t

[EveHammond13]

25. so because that student had a single working-class mom and had to take out loans

they did something wrong???????????????

I guess they should have just resigned themselves to working at McDonald's for life then.

[Pobeka]

30. You are misreading my point

There are also people who chose to spend their money on expensive cars, expensive houses, expensive toys, or flat out chose to not pay for their childrens' college and thus the children took out loans. We could've done that too, but didn't. We lived well below our means, got year old videos from the libary instead of paying for new releases at blockbuster, drove old cars, lived in the low budget house, etc, etc, etc. And now, to forgive those loans for those folks whoe did not make sacrifices (and could have) is a big "screw you" to those of us who did in fact make financial sacrifices back then.

I totally support forgiveness of debt caused by obscenely high interest rates and fees.

[LenaBaby61]

48. YOU & many others did the sensible things in this situation.

But, many others didn't.

I have a male cousin in his 70's who got his federal student loan and ran through it. Spent like he was being paid to spend it. I was younger than he was, but remember his late Mom telling My late Mom that he was buying motorcycles, fancy clothes, eating/drinking out and spending on friends et al. He even took a trip to Tijuana. I remember him doing that. Here it is almost 50 years later, and last year they started seizing a portion of his Social Security. He did well in his chosen profession and he had DECADES to pay his student loan back. I guess he thought 'somebody' would magically pay it back. He chose to waste much of his student loan monies. I really don't feel sorry for him, because like I said he had decades to pay his loan off. And what's worse, one of his daughters spoke with me a few months ago when that portion of money was sized from his social security check, and his wife is HELLA furious at him because he never told her about this large student loan debt he owed. His wife's way of showing her disgust at him was to take to another bedroom to sleep in--as his daughter told me. YIKES He and his wife are comfortable, but him never telling her about his debt and that nice-sized chunk of money taken out of his SS check monthly was a bridge too far for the wife.

[lostnfound]

13. A fair complaint

I sympathize. Did your kids select careers with a payoff?

When I was in college, there were plenty of grants available. I was an engineering major, and a co-op, so it was all upside. I had less than $10,000 in debt and it was easy to payoff as an engineer.

The bush administration made the loans a big profit center for lenders, with exorbitant rates. Meanwhile salaries are stagnant, ad. If you picked the “wrong” major, like journalism or teaching, forget ever being able to pay it back.

Does it cost as much for colleges to educate literature or philosophy majors as it does particle physics? They generally charge the same per credit hour, regardless of the class.

[kimmylavin]

15. Ugh.

I will literally be making my very last student loan payment (15 years after I finished a career training program, with a loan that somehow ballooned to $42K from an original amount of $26K) in October 2020.

Warren's plan won't help me AT ALL, and yet I am 100% behind it.
Even if Warren doesn't win, I hope the next Democratic president takes it up.

I've never understood the way of thinking that says since you sacrificed or suffered, everyone else must, as well.
Aren't we progressives, here?

[ecstatic]

17. +1000. nt

[Quixote1818]

19. Agree nt

[Pobeka]

22. I think being progressive also includes a realization/application of fairness.

Congrats on seeing the end of that debt on the near horizon, that's got to feel good.

In my original post, I did say abusive interest rates (and now I'll add abusive fees etc) that were part of the student loans should be forgiven. I totally support that.

Once that is addressed, if you are going to hand over money to people who went to college, then hand it over to everyone similarly, not just those who have outstanding loans. To do less than that is being decidely unfair.

[Mariana]

45. Not only that, but the poster wants the kids to suffer

for the actions of their parents. Isn't that nice?

There are also people who chose to spend their money on expensive cars, expensive houses, expensive toys, or flat out chose to not pay for their childrens' college and thus the children took out loans.

[Maru Kitteh]

18. So fuck everybody who didn't have parents like you then, right?

Nice.

[Luciferous]

44. Right?! My parents didn't help me with college at all, and my sister-in-law is a teacher who has

massive student loan debt because her parents took out private loans to pay for her education. I guess we shouldn't have bothered going to college?

[Mariana]

46. That's exactly what the poster seems to be saying.

They deserve to suffer if they had bad parents, poor parents, or no parents.

[bigbrother05]

33. Does that mean you wouldn't vote for Warren if she's the nominee?

Understand how you feel, but would you sit home because of a single position?

[Pobeka]

35. NO WAY. I'll vote for the Dem nominee, regardless of who it is!!!

That's a no-brainer!

[Celerity]

34. meh

Is it fair that people my age (23) and younger are looking at 100K, 150K, 250K or more to simply get a a masters or PhD (hell even a bachelors in many cases) when many boomers and before paid fuckall in tuition in comparison?

Was it fair to force insurance companies to insure pre-existing conditions under the ACA when millions of people died before the ACA forced coverage?

Is it fair to retro-actively overturn all marijuana convictions and free the prisoners when so many before had to spend decades in prison (in some cases) back when there were still insanely draconian drug laws?



Why the hell would I begrudge human-empowerment, relief and freedom to thrive for the bottom 99% in our nation???? My family has spent silly money on the American part of my tertiary education and we support this debt relief 100% even though we do not directly benefit from it. A nation of debt slaves is a fucked up nation, and I do not want to live in a fucked up nation.

Some much wrong with the stance you take.

[Pobeka]

36. College affordability is a huge problem.

And I agree is out of control, and has been for a long time. I would prefer the government attack that problem with regulations rather than just throwing tax money at it.

If you can't afford college with funds made from a summer job, it's not affordable (in my view)..

[Celerity]

40. Do you oppose Biden's plan for 4 years free public university tuition as well?

Last edited Thu May 30, 2019, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)

The cost of uni has just exploded the last 20 years or so. Especially out of state tuition at public schools, but even instate is still crazy high (see below).

some examples

https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/use-the-data

these are PER YEAR costs

Alaska — University of Alaska, Anchorage
Tuition, room, board, and other costs, 2016-17: $37,304

Michigan — University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
Tuition, room, board, and other costs, 2016-17: $59,784

Delaware — University of Delaware
Tuition, room, board, and other costs, 2016-17: $46,618

Arizona — University of Arizona
Tuition, room, board, and other costs, 2016-17: $50,367

North Dakota — North Dakota State University
Tuition, room, board, and other costs, 2016-17: $32,227

Hawaii — University of Hawaii at Manoa
Tuition, room, board, and other costs, 2016-17: $50,645


The AVERAGE cost for 4 years IN-STATE PUBLIC tuition, fees and room/board has now passed 100,000 USD. In the top 5 most expensive states (NH, VT, PA, NJ, and IL) it is already over 125,000 USD.

That is all just for undergrad. And that is public schools. The top private schools are over 300,000 USD for 4 years. Granted, scholarships, grants, etc can lower a lot of those, but still it is outrageously expensive.


When Biden graduated university, the average cost in the US for public tuition and was 256 USD per year. For the 1990-91 school year, the national average for tuition and fees at a four year public university were still only 1888 USD.

It is madness what is going on. We are being robbed blind.

[Pobeka]

41. I haven't seen the details of his plan, so I can't answer.

But in general I oppose just throwing more tax dollars at it, because that doesn't actually reign in costs. Here in Washington, while my children were in college, tuition was rising ~18% a year, and a lot of that rise was because state funding was being withdrawn from higher education more and more. I'll bet some of the increases are also due to paying for more overhead to college administration.

Thanks for that excellent link on college costs BTW, clearly shows inflation adjusted costs more than doubled in the last 50 years!

[Celerity]

43. inflation-adjusted tuition and fees have increased 600% roughly since 1965

They were around 2000 USD (including fees) per year (inflation-adjusted) for a 4 year public uni. Total cost was around 4900. Today just tuition and fees average out to 600% more (inflation adjusted) and for all expenses it is over $25,000 per year already. It is 51,000 per year on AVERAGE for all private schools, and over 80,000 per year for the most expensive, which again is 600% more in inflation-adjusted dollars than 1965. Not only that, but real, inflation-adjusted incomes have been fairly stagnant since the 1970's so there is even less to pay off that massive debt with.

At current rates of increase it will cost close to 200,000 USD, all costs included, for the average 4 year public uni degree (instate) by 2030, 2032 or so. Over 400,000 USD for a 4 year private degree, and close to 2/3rds of a million USD for the top private schools' bachelors. Over 1.5 million dollars for a top private PhD (assuming 10 total years, 4 for the bachelors, 2 for the masters, 4 more for the PhD).

That is unsustainable.

Starting in 2013, over 50% of ALL colleges had more than half of all students in default at least once on their student loan debts.

As of summer 2018, Americans owed over $1.56 trillion (well over 1.6 trillion now, as that was a year ago) in student loan debt, spread out amongst about 45 million borrowers. That’s about $521 billion more than the total of all U.S. credit card debt.

[Blue_playwright]

37. The catch is...

That forgiving that debt could be a major economic boost and be beneficial to everyone. Even those who paid theirs off will benefit overall.

Not to mention how dang predatory it was. We were told to buy cars with our loans (I didn’t) because the interest was so low. One semester I tried to refuse a loan and had to take it, cash the check, call a dozen places then finally found someone send it too - because I wasn’t in repayment yet it was a mess. I remember being told flat-out that my payments would be $25 a month per semester. It wasn’t. It was $600 a month right out of college - for only five semesters. It’s now up to more than my mortgage as I was just paying interest for so long.

That might be a deciding factor for me in the primaries, too. Climate crisis is number one, though.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/5900E9D6-0B7D-11E8-9924-C119E624AA94https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/5900E9D6-0B7D-11E8-9924-C119E624AA94

[Pobeka]

38. I agree 100% n/t

[RhodeIslandOne]

9. I don't trust people like your buddy to vote

Or vote correctly once they get there.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. Good point. Spent last weekend with a house

full of them. It's like their brain doesn't connect what a candidate's policies and ideas are to their own lives or anyone elses.

This is what trump and the division has taught me that I never knew...there are a shitload of very low intelligence people in our country.

Double funds for education!!!!

[ecstatic]

16. Hell, I was putting lump sum payments on my student loans...

Paid off one account completely. Needless to say, I've gone back to making the minimum payment until this election is sorted out.

[More_Cowbell]

20. It's not the original debt, but interest and fees and added costs

I consolidated law school loans and a little bit of leftover undergraduate debt in 1992.

After paying it for 16 years, in 2008 I lost my job, was hospitalized and couldn't work, recovered and got another job and rehabilitated the loan.

In 2014 my boss cut our pay by almost half. In the six months it took me to find another job I stopped paying again. Started up payments in early 2015.

Debt in 1992: $39,000
Amount I paid in the last 4 years: $25,000

Amount owed today: $33,000

I've paid on this loan almost constantly for over 25 years. I've probably paid the principal amount over 3 times. The interest and penalties and "collection costs" (they've never made any attempts at collection, because I always just pick up and pay it again on my own) are what go on and on.

It can't be refinanced, as it's been due and collectible, the whole amount, since 2014. The interest is 9%.

I just want to provide another data point that government loans are run on a system that would never be allowed by a private company.

[EveHammond13]

24. we must give relief to students who were victims of predatory lenders. period.

[not fooled]

31. Aaaannnnddd right on cue

the cartoon villains in the red don administration administer another low blow:

U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

from Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-12/u-s-stepping-up-enforcement-on-delinquent-student]

Your rich Uncle Sam is calling in his chips.

The U.S. government stepped up collections on delinquent student debt to $2.9 billion last year -- or an average of $1,000 from 2.9 million former students and their cosigners, according to the Treasury Department. And the trend continues. In the first six months of fiscal 2019, which started Oct. 1, collections totaled $3.3 billion.


Gotta harass students to cough up in order to fund tax cuts for billionaires.

Key Insights
The Treasury Department may withhold federal income tax refunds, Social Security payments (including Social Security disability benefits) and more
State tax refunds may be also withheld and applied toward repayment of a loan

State drivers licenses or other state-issued licenses may be confiscated

A borrower's employer may be ordered to withhold up to 15% of disposable pay to collect defaulted debt without a court hearing



The articls also states that costs associated with collection of defaulted loans, including use of private collection agencies, can also be added to the balance due, as can processing fees and costs associated with possible civil litigation.

Wow, that's gonna be indefinite indebtedness for some people. Predator deVoid and her ilk will tack on neverending charges. We need policy changes.

[Ohiogal]

29. My right wing sibling was aghast

at Warren’s suggestion to forgive student loans. Said it isn’t fair to people who were responsible and paid off their loans. Said it’s just another loony lib taxpayer funded handout to deadbeats.

[Gregory Peccary]

32. Typical selfish right wing mindset

If it doesn't benefit them directly they think it's a handout to deadbeats

[VOX]

39. They're oblivious to the scourge of predatory lending.

Their adolescent Ayn Rand-ian fixation won’t allow them to perceive any fault with merciless banks and cutthroat private industry.

[More_Cowbell]

54. Older Americans are supporting kids

To the detriment of their own retirement plans.

How many young adults are living at home, being subsidized by their parents, who can't save as much as they should for their own retirement?

This is actually just a hypothetical for me. A family member just paid off my loans. In 5 years I will pay them back, using payments that would have got me nowhere near paying off the government in 5 years.

This is just an issue that affects generations.

[cwydro]

42. Curious, what was his degree in?

“A crapload of student debt” - he must have gotten an education, right?

[Skittles]

47. ugh

I could not be friends with that self-serving piece of shit

[OhioChick]

52. Nor could I

[dalton99a]

49. Student debt was a big winning issue for Beto on Texas college campuses.

[emmaverybo]

51. And what of those who have paid debt off already? And can this be done AND the forgiveness

program start accepting the 98.9 percent it currently turns down AND we can invest 50 billion in black colleges, make colleges, two and four year, available for free AND institute M4All And invest billions on the New Green...

I think republicans will pretty much figure out that all of these programs can not be accomplished without taxing all of us to death, the wealthy 70 to 90 percent, corporations much more than we probably should, and that in the end they will pay to have debt erased.

I am willing to accept responsibility for my school loan. I’d love to roll back some of the interest on it, but I made a promise.
I am more concerned about the larger loans taken out to attend for profit school’s that lead to entry level salaries. These schools heavily recruit and do not provide an education worth the debt. I also think people in certain professions—law, medicine, science— pay too much to educate themselves.
But ya can’t do it all. I don’t believe promising folks multiple pies in the sky is a great way to enlist them to support a progressive candidate or that the votes earned would be enough to vanquish Trump.
Let progressives be more select in their spending projects, more realistic. That will earn votes all around.