Biden and the Hyde Amendment.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Joe will appoint pro-choice judges. Donald Trump won't. If Trump wins we get the Hyde amendment and more right wing anti-choice judges.

Have a nice day.

-DSB

[Indygram]

1. Women and girls deserve a candidate who fiercely defends their bodily autonomy, especially

when those rights are under attack in this country and the majority of America does NOT support the Hyde Amendment.

As a woman with daughters I am DONE listening to men minimize the importance of this issue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. The whole of humanity deserves an American president other than Trump

Have a nice day.

[Indygram]

3. The whole of humanity can do a hell of a lot better than Biden

eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. The whole of humanity can do a hell of a lot worse than Biden

Have a nice day.

[shanny]

18. That's your campaign slogan?

"Not as bad as it could be"? That always works well.

[bahrbearian]

19. It's either that or "Hold your Nose when voting "

[shanny]

20. +1

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Would you have to hold your nose to vote for somebody who said this?

”To try to act as if there is a difference between ‘civil unions’ and same-sex marriage is dishonest, cowardly and extremely disrespectful to the people of Hawaii...As Democrats, we should be representing the views of the people, not a small number of homosexual extremists.”


Have a nice day.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. I stand by my original comments. They require no elucidation.

Have a nice day.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. I was responding to the question posed to me.

Have a nice day.

[True Dough]

51. Absolutely sounds that way, doesn't it?

"Vote for Biden, you could do worse!"

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

105. Haha... I've heard worse!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[MontanaMama]

6. +1

I’m DONE listening to men minimize this too. I’m done being patient and done compromising. DONE.

[thesquanderer]

8. re: "the majority of America does NOT support the Hyde Amendment. "

Are you sure?

There is a group of "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" types, who might say, a woman should be able to make whatever choice she wants, including abortion, but the government should not have to pay for it. To some people, that would justify the Hyde amendment, even if they consider themselves pro-choice.

[treestar]

9. Keep conflating public funding with pro-choice

if the right is under attack, worrying about the funding seems pointless.

[Demsrule86]

33. They deserve a candidate who can win. Do health care properly and

the Hyde amendment is meaningless.

[NRaleighLiberal]

38. This. Compromise seems easy for some when they are not

Personally impacted. I can't believe some of what I am reading the past few days. Isn't this Democratic underground?

[LisaM]

40. Women and girls deserve a female president and an all woman-SCOTUS.

We had an all-male SCOTUS for 192 years. I'm willing to split the difference and go half that, 96 years, with no men on the bench.

Yes, I'm being ironic, but as far as what we "deserve" and what we GET....well.....

[Indygram]

59. Doesn't have to be a female but MUST be a champion FOR females

eom

[LisaM]

66. I dearly want a woman president in my lifetime.

For that matter, in my mother's lifetime. It's too late for my grandmothers.

[susanr516]

107. I am with you, Indygram

I am old enough to remember life before the Roe v Wade decision. I switched from undecided to Liz after I saw her response to the Hyde Amendment question. As a woman with daughters and a granddaughter, I am also DONE with men who do not understand how much a woman's household income affects her ability to obtain a safe and legal abortion.

[Merlot]

4. You can be pro-choice and still support the hyde amendment

First example: Joe Biden.

[shanny]

17. So, pro-choice unless you are too poor

to pay for it yourself?

[Demsrule86]

34. They should be on an expanded Medicaid and when Biden wins, we will be.

[treestar]

7. I know. Can't believe the Hyde Amendment is even an issue

at this point in history.

[BannonsLiver]

14. I wonder

How many of those having a meltdown even knew the law existed before yesterday, or how many people had temper tantrums in 2010 when Obama reaffirmed it? Or when it was passed?

Answer: None.

Now what’s different? Oh that’s right, we’re in a primary campaign. Could not be more obvious.

[shanny]

16. Shouldn't use categorical statements

when trying to make a point, because a single example disproves it: that would be me and btw I'm not alone.

I've known about for years, been pissed about it for years and that includes 2010.

[Tipperary]

23. I think you are probably right about that.

Though no one is going to admit it.

[Skya Rhen]

31. Very true!

[Demsrule86]

35. Remember Hugh Mello who supported legislation that took away abortion rights

and Sanders campaigned for him.

[Demsrule86]

60. That had to do with cancer...but the left defended Bernie and lectured us.But now...

Horror...although no candidate has ever supported Hyde before including Obama.

[Demsrule86]

83. I have no issue with this....Biden can make the money he can as a private citizen.

[marble falls]

61. Actually Biden didn't campaign for Upton. He referenced Upton at a third funtion and the ...

speech was not about Upton nor did Upton pay for Biden's appearance at a function having nothing to do specifically about Upton.

So specifically, no - Joe Biden did not ever campaign for Upton. Glad I could clear this mud smear up for you!

[marble falls]

80. Upton expropriated that quote. Biden never wrote an endorsement of Upton.

[treestar]

93. No he just praised him for his work regarding cancer

which Biden's son died of.

[treestar]

96. What did he do with the money?

As for the rest of it, that has to happen in public life. They can't talk like we do. That would be acting like the Dotard.

[Skya Rhen]

10. The Hyde Amendment will never be repealed. If anyone believes that this will be repealed then they

believe Joe when he predicts that the Republicans will have an epiphany and work with Democrats.

It makes no difference whethere Joe supports its repeal or not - the law will remain, as it has been in existence for decades and will require Republican support which we ALL agree will never happen...

[trev]

28. So we should just go ahead and endorse it, then?

Maybe we should do that with other issues as well.

[Demsrule86]

36. It shouldn't matter if we do health care properly.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. It can be true that someone appoints pro-choice judges and also supports a garbage provision that

hurts some of the most oppressed and vulnerable among us. It's insulting to imply that objecting to support of a garbage provision means people don't understand the wider implications of voting.

[samnsara]

12. Joe is and will be all for womens choice...

..those who are trying to make us believe he wont be arent who they profess to be...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. How is explicitly supporting barriers to people wanting to access abortion being "all for womens

choice"?

[shanny]

15. This isn't about Biden v rump

It's about Biden v other possible D nominees.

[emmaverybo]

24. The others do not have the chance to win in the general that Biden does. They also bring

a major drawback in support for Medicare4All, which will affect low income people currently on Medicaid as well as millions upon millions on employer provided plans they like and do not want to get rid of.
Medicaid provides far better coverage than it is likely Medicare4All will.

[shanny]

25. I disagree.

[emmaverybo]

30. About the 70 million who do not want to get rid of employer provided plans? And that's a rough

estimate out of the 180 million who have them.
As to Medicare4All, if it is anything like Medicare, it will not provide in home paid health aid services, access to some of the best doctors and hospitals in the country, and 100 percent hospitalization, extensive diagnostics, drugs, all the excellent coverage now given, while it will
cost billions. And since it is untested, none of us really for sure know.
Except we say Europe, when that’s a very bad argument.

[shanny]

45. The goal is universal health care

with access for everyone, fewer hassles and greatly reduced costs. Calling for Medicare for All is largely a tactic because the program is well-known and liked. Does it need changes, as a stand-alone program for seniors or to expand into/toward universal coverage? Duh. But if we elect people a Congress and president dedicated to getting that done it CAN be done. It COULD have been done in 2009 if our leaders had read the tea leaves a little faster and done away with the weaponized filibuster before it tanked our agenda and momentum.

That didn't happen. I'm thinking it needs to happen this time. We have massive issues that must be dealt with in a decisive fashion and being moderate and incremental isn't going to do it.

Btw I'm one of those people with employer-provided health ins. Is it better than nothing, better than the individual market, the best we can do? Yes, yes and fuck no.

[emmaverybo]

48. There are different ways to get to universal health care, with Medicare4All being but one, one

that reinvents the wheel. What you seem to be saying is that it’s a kind of shorthand. I see it as a liability politically, so not a good stand-in to make the case for universal coverage.
Primary candidates who tie themselves to it risk a Dem win in the general.
There are any number of other ways to provide universal, so why insist on selling us Medicare4All?

[Demsrule86]

37. I like Warren. But she will never win a general.

[emmaverybo]

76. She loses my support in the primary given a purely politicalized response on Biden

Re: Hyde amendment.
She made an emotional plea for poor women who have been raped, poor women impregnated by family members (or rather molested, as she put it as though the Hyde amendment had to do with molestation).
Well she must know that the Hyde amendment makes an exemption in Medicaid funded abortions for rape and incest.
Also, she might now that 15 states provide state funded Medicaid subsidy for abortions not exempted under Hyde.
A policy a day is not going to make her, worthy as she is, electable in the general. And neither will
an inaccurately based political attack on a rival.

[Demsrule86]

77. Good point...that could be considered untrue...on her part.

[customerserviceguy]

106. Agreed

She let Trump get into her head once, she may let him do that again. He will go full force at her, making his treatment of Hillary look kind in comparison.

[qazplm135]

42. silliness

who do you think you are persuading with that other than the other true believers?

[emmaverybo]

74. It is much more complicated. Here's a discussion of polls showing some clarity:

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/

How those polled answered depends and is not a clear-cut Medicare for All win.

[emmaverybo]

79. I don't like the current system either. Does not take reinventing the wheel to insure those

currently not insured and to provide more affordable coverage for those insured OR to protect choice for folks like me who like their supplemented Medicare plan.
No need to throw Medicaid and ACA out.

[emmaverybo]

85. I am not sold on single payer. Once the feds take over it will be cut corner after corner, tax

exorbitantly, and end up with the VA system or worse like England where hip replacement surgery
doesn’t get approval until after the patient dies, cervical cancer screening is on a wait list, cancer treatment times now delayed by as much as four months, and it has had to become more privatized, while one still needs employer coverage and to pay out of pocket.
Medicare alone, unless one has another insurance, costs an enrollee and is far from good or full
coverage.
Medicaid has States involved in its administration.
I say a mandate that States must bring insurers to the table and must expand Medicaid, plus
federal subsidies to shore up rural hospitals, free clinics, Medicaid and Medicare.

[emmaverybo]

87. I don't listen to Fox. A shame that if you don't agree, you accuse a fellow democrat of being

brainwashed by Republicans. And the Brits want universal healthcare, rather than none, but strongly criticize the failings of the current system. These are systemic failings.
There is much privatization in it now and councils of doctors with a self interest are allocating dollars.
I won’t go into the horror stories. Reminds me of the earlier days of Kaiser.
Care is variable, and rationed.
I don’t think you have been reading the same material I have about it. Much of the anti immigrant fervor centers around dissatisfaction with the health system, with the impact of immigration on the system being blamed for its failures.
But, hey, those for single payer are not going to be swayed. It is easier, however, to point to Canada to bolster than to England.
For now, I am sticking with exploring other options to the healthcare problem than Medicare for all.
And I do that without being under the influence of the right wing, thank you.

[emmaverybo]

90. Some of those measures are subjective. I would not want to be on it or have a family member on it.

[emmaverybo]

92. You are talking Canadian now. Wow. You sure switched off UK. Not arguing anymore with you.

[crazytown]

26. 'Have a nice day"?

Do you have any red lines DSB, other than re-electing Trump?

[Indygram]

62. "Have a nice day" is the equivalent of "Let Them Eat Cake"

eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. And I thought it was a common salutation.

Have a nice day.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. I'm not going to get sucked into endless rebuttals and surrebuttals.

[stonecutter357]

27. K&R

[Thekaspervote]

29. Thank you!!

[CaptainTruth]

32. Biden's not dumb. I think he can & will be persuaded on this if he becomes POTUS.

[blue-wave]

39. +1000

Every Democrat of good faith needs to understand that the republiCons are behind the attacks on Joe. The Cons know they need to bring Joe down. We Dems need to build him up and stand strong and united. Two terms for the republiCons is not an option.

[qazplm135]

41. which of the candidates won't appoint pro-choice judges?

What's your point?

Oh right...only ___ can beat Trump bullshit again.

[Celerity]

43. +1

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. No need for the hostility.

Have a nice day.

[qazplm135]

47. anyone

who plays the only my guy can win so suck up any policy of his you don't like deserves hostility.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Please see post 44

Thank you in advance.

Have a nice day. (REDUX)

[qazplm135]

50. Please see post 47

.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. Please see post 49

Thank you in advance.

Have a nice day. (REDUX) X1

[trev]

67. This is the most infantile thread posting I've ever seen on DU.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. I will be the better poster...

I will be the better poster, take the high road, and not respond in kind.


Have a nice day.

[trev]

71. No, I don't ignore anyone.

Everyone has valid viewpoints. But taking up post after post of "Nyaa nyaa" isn't productive.

YM obviously V.

[trev]

72. Oh--and I don't mean just you. The other responder as well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. I edited my post.

I'm not going to be sucked into internet fights. I'm not going to be anybody's whipping boy because the candidate of a person's choice is languishing in the polls.


Have a nice day.



P.S. I told the poster there was no need for hostility and he basically told me to f--k myself. To put it colloquially that's messed up. And the straw man he created to attack me was messed up too.

[trev]

98. Hm. Ok, I reread the exchange

and I'll cede you your point. My own response was to the later back-and-forth which, IMO, didn't need to be there. Which is why I tacked mine to the last post in the thread.

Wasn't trying to attack anyone personally. I apologize if it seemed that way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

99. No problem. I was bit out of line in my response to you.

I was trying to deescalate. The poster wanted to escalate. That's really not my purpose for posting here.

And when I say "Have a nice day" I mean it. You go your way and I'll go mine. i don't want to fight. I stopped posting at other boards for that reason.

Have a nice day. No snark intended.

[trev]

100. You weren't out of line with me.

You made me rethink. I actually appreciate that. It's not easy to judge tone and manner online; takes a getting to know each other.

Cool.

[True Dough]

53. There's a whole lot of that going on among within the Biden camp

Last edited Thu Jun 6, 2019, 05:22 PM - Edit history (1)

"Our guy or the highway mentality."

Biden is doing well in the polls during these early days. But there's a process for a reason. He's going to hit some speed bumps like this one and it isn't a "purity test" to flesh out these sorts of issues, despite what some of his disciples say.

If Joe's still standing when the primary is over, he'll have my support. But not until then.

[trev]

68. Precisely.

Took the words out of my mou--er, keyboard.

[qazplm135]

111. I suspect it's born of two fears

1. They fear Trump so much they run to Biden. Trump is a fluky fool, not some political juggernaut, despite the NYT's constant search for and interaction with Trump voters.

2. They fear Biden's strength is not permanent so they want to lock in the status quo now. If they were confident, they wouldn't CONSTANTLY and repeatedly post about how only Biden can win, and we should stop "attacking" Biden (which first no one has done much of yet to be honest, and two, wait until the debates).

[Demsrule86]

109. The house is on fire...I don't give a damn about policy. Any Democrat is acceptable to

me in a general. I want to win. This is not the year to move left, we could lose the presidency and the house. We had this argument in 16 and Trump won. This can't be alllowed to happen again. I believe Biden can win. He is a Democrat and will advance Democratic policy unlike Trump and his minions. And Biden ...maybe gives us a shot at the senate too.

[qazplm135]

110. first of all

no one has said that any Democrat isn't acceptable in a general v Trump.

Second of all, of course we are moving left, even Biden is moving left as shown by his move yesterday on Hyde. So your second statement is silly.

Third, any of the top five or so "can win."

Fourth, in a PRIMARY if you aren't talking about policy then what are you supposed to talk about? Should everyone else stop running because YOU think Biden can win, and apparently only Biden can win?

[Demsrule86]

112. Talk about the reality. Most of these policy discussions are about policy that will not happen and

it is more important to figure out who can beat Trump...look at the midterms ...won by moderates on healthcare...or the senate map which makes one want to weep...we need a candidate who can attract moderate voters. I don't see any other candidates as being able to do so.

[qazplm135]

113. lol

the midterms were not "won by moderates."

The midterms were a referendum on Trump and yes healthcare was a primary driving factor as well.

Moderates won in some places, liberals won in other places, women won a lot too. The youth vote was higher, but older voters still were the largest group, as always.

Overall we won because our base turned out in greater than average numbers for a midterm compared to their base.
Women were a major reason why we won as were POC.

You make it seem as if it was only moderates because, I suspect, you are a moderate.
This mentality is no different than the folks on the far left who make the silly argument that everyone is a secret progressive.

The truth is we win when we drive out our base vice searching for the mythical moderate voter that you think somehow will only vote for Biden and Trump and no one else.

[Scurrilous]

46. K&R

[still_one]

54. All of our candidates will appoint pro choice judges, and most want to Repeal the Hyde Amendment

See, we have a choice here also

[Aaron Pereira]

64. It's just another purity test blown out of proportion.

Our nominee is going to have positions we disagree with. Seems childish to disqualify a good candidate like Biden for one single stand on an issue representing a mainstream view.

[BluesRunTheGame]

78. Or....

...we could nominate someone else.

Any of them would nominate pro-choice justices.

Joe isn’t up to this. How long are we going to have to watch this guy stumble and bumble through this campaign.

[emmaverybo]

101. What ?

[trev]

102. It looks like he's changed his mind.

"A day after he reaffirmed his support for the Hyde Amendment, Joe Biden flip-flopped and announced he can no longer stand behind the law that bars federal funds for abortion services in most cases."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-flip-flops-on-hyde-amendment-ban-on-federal-funds-for-abortion

[DemocratSinceBirth]

103. Fine with me.

I'm not nearly as invested in Biden as I am in defeating Trump. I do think Joe is a fundamentally decent human being. It would be nice to have a decent guy or gal leading our nation.

And my views on abortion, euthanasia, the death penalty, and war are highly nuanced. Too nuanced to get the nomination of either party.

[trev]

108. Understood.

I'm in the same boat, nuance-wise.

[guillaumeb]

104. Recommended. eom