Is David Axelrod an Ageist?

[uawchild]

"Former Obama campaign manager David Axelrod weighed in on Joe Biden's position reversal on the Hyde Amendmen, which bars federal funding for most abortions, saying it is a "flip flop flip" which highlights some of the larger problems with his candidacy:

...
CAMEROTA: But here is my question, has Donald Trump broken the public's appetite for consistency? He obviously changes his position on a daily or hourly basis, perhaps we've passed the era where voters still care about consistent positions.

AXELROD: Maybe, or maybe people will be looking for an alternative that offers more stability than he has offered. I just don't know. It's a very good question, have the standards changed.

Here is the issue with Biden, and people don't like to approach it, but he's 76 years old, he would be 78 when he became president and that would be eight years older than the oldest president who has ever taken office, which is Donald Trump. There are questions about that.

If you are unsteady on the campaign trail that is going to intensify those questions. This is one reason I think they've kept relatively leisurely pace on the campaign trail and away from some of the major events and away from reporters, frankly, because they are worried about things just such as the one we have just seen.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/07/axelrod_bidens_flip_flop_flip_on_abortion_funding_raises_questions_about_his_campaign.html

[Green Line]

2. Okay

[Peacetrain]

6. Dang he left before I could get in here to respond to him/her..

so move over..

[George II]

16. I saw that post and was tempted to alert, but figured it would catch up to him sooner or later.

[jcgoldie]

35. ...

I sent the alert. I mean its the primary forum so there is naturally going to be critique of all the candidates and the "support democrats" rule probably should be taken with a bit more latitude since we're drawing distinctions between them, but cryptic shit like so and so is "done because they have been exposed" seems to add nothing to the debate and is only an attempt to slander.

BTW I'm happy to see my candidate is creeping up on you guys day by day here among the DU folks!

[dawg day]

3. Many of us like Axelrod who are over 60 worry about older candidates-- and ourselves

We shouldn't forget there's an actual constitutional rule against younger candidates (under 35). So let's not pretend that age isn't an issue recognized by the founders. In fact, in those days, the life expectancy was limited, so maybe they didn't need to consider the problem of a truly aged president.

Many people live to be 85 with no physical or mental disability. But those of us approaching that epoch of existence have noticed with our parents and friends that you simply can't predict. You can assume a 30-year-old is going to retain his/her intelligence and health for decades -- most do-- but with someone over 70-- you just can't know. Harsh but true. It's a very sad truth. I'm sorry- fearing this myself.

[uawchild]

4. so true about ourselves!

Every time I can't remember where I left the car keys, I start to have self doubts. lol

I know that for myself, it was fairly easy to recognize and accept a decline in physical abilities as I grew older, but there is still a reluctance, perhaps even a stigma, to acknowledging a decline in cognitive abilities.

[TexasProgresive]

11. I thought everyone kept their keys in the fridge.

That's the joke in our home.

[uawchild]

13. lol n/t

[jcgoldie]

36. No room for keys in my fridge...

Not with the TV remote there for weeks at a time behind the beer

[True Dough]

5. Valid points

I don't believe Axelrod, or anyone who raises Biden or Sanders' age, is fear mongering. These are real issues that we might have to confront if a candidate in his late-70s is elected. There's no predicting how Biden or Sanders' faculties will be in 2022.

And, it's true, there's no guarantee that any candidate's health will hold up during their tenure as POTUS, but the risk factors undeniably rise as we age.

[MBS]

10. It's a valid concern.

Or at least it's a concern I share. The presidency (when held by someone with a sense of responsibility, unlike the current resident) is an emotionally, physically, and mentally demanding job. Given the number and urgency of the messes that we will need to clean up in 2020, our cleaner-up-in-chief will need to be someone who can fire on all cylinders for two full terms.

Granted that there is not a hard-and-fast correlation between age and energy/stamina/health/mental sharpness. (I'll never be able to afford to retire, so I point this out on a regular basis). But still: I want a president with wisdom and experience, sure; but I also want someone who will have the stamina and energy to lead us out of the swamp.

[DesertRat]

18. Very true. nt

[JI7]

7. not as much as he has a problem with women candidates

[tymorial]

8. Considering age is not necessarily ageism. I don't question Biden's ability to execute his duties

I question whether it is in the countries best interest to nominate a candidate who would turn 80 while on office. We need stability and while no one can ever be assured that a president will remain healthy, statistically speaking an elderly candidate presents more risk. We dont just need 4 years, we need 8 years to repair the damage caused by Trump. I would rather have an incumbent in 2024.

If Biden wins the nomination, I will absolutely vote for him. If it looks like he is the only person who could possibly beat Trump in the general then I will support him in the primary.

Taking age into consideration it's not ageism it's being realistic

[MBS]

12. ditto.

My feelings are exactly the same.

[Blue_true]

26. If nominated Biden will run against Trump.

Trump appears to be declining quickly. The comparison of Biden on stage with Trump should favor Biden. I would be more concerned about who Biden picks as a VP than how old he will be versus Trump.

[demmiblue]

9. I take it on a case by case basis.

I have seen several off-the-cuff people/press interactions with Biden...

Warren seems to be one or two decades younger than she actually is, both in stamina and mental acuity. She is a brilliant thinker, and can handle questions/interactions without hesitation. She pretty much nails it every time.

[Midnight Writer]

14. The older the car, the more likely the breakdown. The older the house, the more likely the problems.

Just read the obits and check the ages of folk listed. At my age,it is distressing how many folk you run into and they seem hale and hearty, and a week later you find out they have had a stroke, or heart attack, or a diagnosis.


Entropy is a fact.


And of course I would vote for Uncle Joe over Trump any day.

[George II]

17. Then there's the older the cheese the sharper it is.

[uawchild]

19. then there is "as old as the hills"

Seriously, Sharp as a Tack, Fit as a Fiddle... they are all just folksy cliches.

Everyone accepts, that despite being "fit as a fiddle", that a 76 year old has experienced physical decline.

But, for some reason, many people can't accept that a "sharp as a tack" 76 year old has inevitably experienced cognitive decline.

Go figure.

[EveHammond13]

15. I do not get him at all.

[extvbroadcaster]

20. He's right

People don't want to hear it, but all it will take is Biden fading on the campaign trail, one health problem, that's it. We need a young ticket to kick Trump's nuts. I don't care who you are, when you get older you can't perform at the level you once could. And the older you get, the worse it gets.

[PatrickforO]

21. I'm 60 and I've thought about this as well. I do not think it means we're bashing anyone,

but I do know about myself, without a doubt, that I would not have the stamina to handle being president. Of course, that is because I would take the office and my oath very seriously, and would bleed inside every time a decision I made cost lives.

Obama was, and remains, the person I think of when I think of the office of President of the US. Certainly the best one in my lifetime (Kennedy didn't get a chance to finish - I think he'd be right up there, too). My point is look how the office aged him. He never showed the turmoil that must have been roiling inside many times, because that's how he was.

I couldn't do it.

Maybe Biden can - I don't know. We'll see how he does. It is easy to be tagged as a 'concern troll' about something like this, but it is a legitimate question to bring up.

[marlakay]

24. Feel same way I am almost 63

And already have moments of forgetting things and while I exercise things are slowing down.

So imagining taking on the hardest job 20 yrs from now seems impossible.

I will support Joe or other older candidates if they are chosen but I do have concerns.

[Blue_true]

25. I remember more things now than I did as a young engineer 30+ years ago.

An older person simply knows more, so there is less lost energy, plus there is a library inside the head.

I used to have to write out notes and leave them at my front door when I was young so that I would not forget the new idea that I needed to run experiments on. Today, I have ideas all the time, write almost nothing down, but still remember the ideas and the test conditions that I need to try. The reason? Part of it is I have seen a lot of things. The other part is that I have stated fit, so my basic fitness is good and my mind is as sharp as it was when I was much younger. The last part is that I worry less about failing today because of the number of times that I have failed, picked myself up and succeeded. So age comes with a lot of benefits.

[Hortensis]

32. :) "If only I knew then what I know now."

I also have greater smarts with age and experience but am also slower and less able. I think that's not due to age, though, but because I do not live a challenging life that constantly requires me to meet those challenges and keep growing, always expanding my abilities and knowledge.

People who have never been truly high functioning, whose ranges of experience and knowledge are limited, who never made most hours in a day productive, who haven't kept growing and developing by continued challenges, and who have let themselves slow down with age and inactivity, are simply not well prepared to understand and appreciate those who always have been. Though those like me might try to imagine who we'd be now if we had. When I came home from work I did chores and then basically relaxed until I went to bed. I didn't get busy with the other half of my very productive life, but I knew people who did.

When Hillary was running, I figured just one of her days would knock me out. A lot of people like her normally operate in a high gear I haven't shifted to in years, and then only temporarily, not as a regular way of life. But that generated respect, not a frankly bizarre assumption that she was too old.

[tblue37]

22. Well, at least his hair wouldn't that th white during his tenure in office as typically

happens.

[Hekate]

23. No Axelrod is not.You are again making this all about Biden. Still nothing about your guy Booker?

Still waiting to hear why you support Booker, uawchild.

Still not interested in tearing down the front-runner.

[still_one]

31. It is an excellent observation. In fact in this OP about "age", he only singles out Biden, but

doesn't even mention Sanders in the OP who is actually older than Biden

[Hekate]

41. It always seems...

...to be about Biden's deficiencies. Just something I noticed in passing, and began to wonder if we will ever hear about Booker, whose avatar he has. So far nothing.

[still_one]

43. I agree, and mentioned that directly to the OP in a separate post. I also think it is ageist.

in my view regardless of age what matters if someone is mentally and physically able to handle the job, and age is not a valid criteria for that because people age differently

[Hekate]

44. Well, I was concerned about Biden's age & long record *before* he entered the race...

I was looking for someone younger, and I didn't think someone of Joe Biden's stature deserved the mud about to be thrown at him from Left and Right. A public record as long as his gives plenty of ammunition for enemies to twist out of recognition.

Then he released his announcement video, and all my concerns about him went away. As far as I am concerned, he got it exactly right. I read a pundit's take on it that he was only talking to old people in that video, because you know, WWII reference.

Okay -- a question for said pundit and anyone else: since when are White Nationalism and Neo-Nazis only of concern to "old people"? If the Bubonic Plague appeared in Los Angeles (which has a serious rat problem) would that only be of interest to Medieval scholars?

Win, lose, or draw, I am SO glad VP Biden is in this race. He will tolerate no bullshit from Trump. As soon as someone explained the 2019 problem with the Hyde Amendment, he got it. He's running against Trump, not the other Democrats. He looks, acts, and thinks like a man 20 years younger than the two candidates nearest in age to him, i.e. Trump and (seriously, no disrespect) Sanders.

Yes, I have my Senator's avatar on this post. But I have Biden's back at DU, because he has earned it.

[still_one]

46. I understand your point, and you are using age as the focal point, but regardless of age, what you

really asking is that person up to the job, both mentally and physically. That criteria you would apply to anyone regardless of chronological age. In fact that is exactly what you are saying when he released his video. You were left with the impression that he was more than able to do the job. I think we are saying the same thing actually.

Interestingly, Axelrod seems to forget President Obama's flip-flopping during his campaign. The most obvious one is when he said he would finance his campaign through the presidential public financing system. Less than a year later when he said that in June 2008 he reversed himself and announced he was opting out of that system.

Same type of reversal happened with PACs

There are other issues where he reversed or flip-flopped also, but none of those things had to do with age or confusion, it had to do with political reality, and while people may disagree on that, I suspect his view was why should I tie one arm behind my back when going into a political fight.

He reversed himself on gay marriage. In 2008 he was for Civil Unions, and against gay marriage. In 2012 he reversed himself.

Did he evolve from 2008 to 2012, or was it done in 2008 because he didn't want to take a chance on the 2008 election for concern that might work against him.

Axelrod is quite disingenuous in his criticism, because he know perfectly well that campaigns reverse themselves, and make adjustments, and it has nothing to do with age.

It could be because they realize a position was wrong, or it could be for political considerations, or both, but it happens.

On the Hyde Amendment, Biden screwed up on several fronts. The cynics or opponents are going to say it was only for political considerations, but his last statement was very clear on it. He supports the repeal of the Hyde Amendment. Planned Parenthood, NARAL, and the ACUL take him at his word. Why wouldn't they. Biden is doing just what Planned Parenthood and NARAL asked him to do, reconsider his initial position on that.

The only way the Hyde Amendment is going to be repealed is if we have a majority in Congress. I for one believe if that were to happen, and Biden or any of the Democratic candidates were President, they would sign it without hesitation.

In spite of the political jocking going on, for the most part all the Democratic candidates are on the same page. The question is who is most capable of delivering, and by delivering that means not only winning the primary, but also the general election, and then being able to work with Congress to achieve results

Thanks hekate.

[jalan48]

27. "If you are unsteady on the campaign trail that is going to intensify those questions."

Lots of pressure on Biden not to make gaffes that can be attributed to his age. It will be interesting to see him in the debates.

[Hekate]

45. I think a lot of Biden's gaffes are not gaffes. Sharing with Obama that passage of the ACA is a BFD

...was a hot-mike or lipreader moment, but not a gaffe. Tellng a reporter that gay marriage was going to get done, before Obama was ready to say it, was not exactly a gaffe either. It was true, it was in Biden's heart, and it pushed Obama in the right direction and over the goal line.

The "gaffe machine" meme is just that -- a meme. It's the narrative for lazy reporters and pundits, like Hillary not being likeable.

[Skittles]

28. I don't think the mere fact that age is a FACTOR is being an Ageist

context, please

[emmaverybo]

29. Not taking the bait. You don't do a thing to rep your guy. Booker? Tell us why you support him.

[still_one]

30. Another negative post about Biden by the OP. The OP only singles out Biden with the "age" problem

in this thread. Others mentioned Sanders, but the OP conveniently leaves Sanders out, in spite of the fact that Sanders is older than Biden, and the two leading candidates in the Democratic primaries currently are the two oldest candidates.

I get it, You don't like Biden, and most likely you won't vote for him in the primaries anyway, but it sure seems you go out of your way to post as many negative things or stories about Biden as you can find, while strangely you have very little to say about your preference, Booker?

Why is that?

[uawchild]

38. You are so wrong it's embarrassing

Last edited Sun Jun 9, 2019, 12:04 PM - Edit history (1)

I have consistently said that SANDERS is too old to be President.

Where have you been? I have posted TONS of posts saying that I thought both SANDERS and Biden were too old for the job.

I also post consistently that I thought SANDERS was not going to be the 2020 nominee.

In fact, I have posted that I thought SANDERS should WITHDRAW from the 2020 campaign before the primaries.

And you know what, I get along swell with scads of SANDERS supporters here on DU. UncleJoe is one of my favorite people that posts here and he's a HUGE Sanders supporter.

But, for some reason, it seems that you, as a Biden supporter, felt the need to TOTALLY misrepresent my position on age, which is that both SANDERS and Biden are too old.

If I made a mistake like you just did in your last post, I would be apologizing.

[still_one]

40. You are so wrong it's embarrassing. I am undecided after the Hyde amendment incident. Are you

inferring I am lying?

I am now waiting for the first debates to decide what I will do then

In this thread, which is the one in question, you only refer to one candidate with your ageist implications, this is the one I am referring to. The one we are talking about.

Also, using age as a criteria as to vote or not vote for someone is ageist bullshit, and I don't care how you want to package it.

The fact is how mentally and physically sound someone is to do the job as president is the criteria you look at, not at their chronological age.

Saying that Sanders was not going to be the nominee, is not a negative or positive, it is simply your opinion. Though it does disregard that he has turned up as one of the top two in the polls up to now. A lot can happen though, to change that in either direction.

I also have nothing to apologize to you for. I wonder if I did a search on you posts in the last 30 days if one candidate would stand out for negative inferences, out of all the other candidates. I also wonder how many posts I would see about why someone should vote for your preferred candidate.

I don't care who you get along with or don't get along with, that has nothing to do with what we are discussing in this thread, but since you brought it up, What I have observed mostly from Sanders supporters here is reasons to vote for Sanders, and less about reasons not to vote for someone else, but that is just my superficial observation

[BannonsLiver]

42. Never a word about Booker

I think the OP is a Sanders supporter as well. And If they’re not.... well I’ll leave it at that. That’s for someone else to handle.

[comradebillyboy]

33. Everyone knows life begins at 80.

[still_one]

34. The question is someone physicially and mentally able to do the job. People age differently. Some

people never grow up.

Using age as a criteria is ageist

[highplainsdem]

37. I'd say that in those statements he's both ageist and thoughtless, since he

doesn't mention either Sanders or Warren while discussing candidates in their 70s (Warren will be 70 later this month).

The important question is about health rather than age.

[Politicub]

39. I suppose everyone thinks someone else is an -ist of some form...

when it comes to criticism of their chosen candidate.

The problem is, true -isms and -ists are getting lost or confused with criticism of someone. If Axelrod had come out and said, "I would not vote for someone above XX age because I don't think people, once they pass a certain age, are able to lead," then that might approach agism.

What Axelrod said is an observation. And he's right: there are questions and discussion about age this cycle. I don't see how that can be raised to Webster's definition of ageism: "prejudice or discrimination against a particular age-group and especially the elderly." Exhibiting prejudice and discrimination is an action -- not opinions or discussion.

There are fundamental differences between generations in terms of outlook and priorities. We must be able to talk about these things as we seek a new president.