Bernie, Son of FDR

[TexasTowelie]

In 1916, amid the carnage of World War I, the great German-Polish socialist Rosa Luxemburg wrote that humanity was facing a choice between socialism and barbarism.

Earlier today, speaking at the George Washington University, Bernie Sanders noted that we live in a time of rising authoritarianism, citing the regimes of Putin, Xi, Orban, Duterte and Trump as indices of the growing threat. His speech was billed as offering his definition of socialism, which, a la Rosa, was said to be the alternative to oligarchy and authoritarianism.

Socialism as Sanders proceeded to define it is indeed an alternative to oligarchy and authoritarianism. What his speech left hanging was whether his socialism was in fact socialism.

In 2015, as his campaign was just taking off, Sanders came to a different D.C. university—Georgetown—to deliver what was also then billed as his definition of socialism. Before a crowd of wildly cheering college students, he reeled off a series of social democratic proposals—the universal right to health care, to college education and the like – with constant reference to the great American leader who did indeed lead the successful war against barbarism in the 1940s: Franklin Roosevelt. His speech was so FDR-centric that I wrote at the time:

Read more: https://prospect.org/article/bernie-son-fdr

[Tiggeroshii]

1. He is the most high profile democrat who has been trying to further FDRs legacy

Over the last 40 years. He truly deserves to be recognized for it.

[George II]

5. No he isn't.

[Tiggeroshii]

7. Can you name any other politician who over the last 40 years

Has put his reputation on the line to fight for universal healthcare, free public college education, fair pay, increased taxes on the wealthiest, and criminal justice reform, without ever going back on his word?

[George II]

9. Yes, many! Let's start with the Dingell family (universal healthcare), free PUBLIC....

...college education - many. Fair pay, increased taxes, many. As for justice reform, you do realize that after the 1994 crime bill was passed many Democrats were in favor of equalizing the penalties for powder cocaine and crack cocaine by lowering the penalties to the level of crack cocaine and BS wanted to RAISE the penalties for crack to powder.

As Yogi Berra used to say, "you can look it up".

Next?

[Tiggeroshii]

13. Thats two. Sorry but few prominent Democrats have held up the 2nd bill of rights besides Bernie

Last edited Fri Jun 14, 2019, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

What about the right to housing for every American? The right to free public higher education? It is sad to say but the 2nd bill of rights was dead and gone with FDR until Bernie and a select few helped bring its democratic socialist ideas back to light.

[George II]

14. Perhaps because the "second bill of rights" was only created today. Oh well....

[Tiggeroshii]

17. The Second Bill of Rights was created by FDR in 1944

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

Have you really never heard of it?

[crazytown]

29. Edward Moore Kennedy

[Tiggeroshii]

30. Definitely not saying Bernie was alone.

But he was consistent among a proud few, including Teddy!

[Hortensis]

43. No. Sanders' counterparts despised and fought FDR.

FDR was the quintessential representative of the "wealthy Democratic establishment elite." Progressives of that era formed their own party to try to kick FDR out of the White House and replace him with their candidate. And Democrats from other offices as well, of course.

They passionately opposed the New Deal programs as a betrayal of the people. They believed they were enacted to protect capitalism etcetera from the people and were a refusal to make the genuine, big changes needed. Those would have been a move to socialism, of course, with seizure and communal ownership of most private institutions.

Guess which camp Sanders would have been with -- and still is.

[Tiggeroshii]

48. That sounds like a load of revisionism if Ive never heard it!

Last edited Fri Jun 14, 2019, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)

His last speech was literally, almost word for word, FDR's second bill of rights. Sanders is also rich, new money, and is on the side of people who will fight for economic rights for everybody despite their wealth. FDR railed against the millionaires and greedy corporations similarly with how Sanders is. In his day, he likely was called a hypocrite for being rich and railing against uncontrolled wealth.


The second bill of rights was a radical proposal demanding that everybody be given a home, job, food, fair pay and protections against monopolies. These proposals are being called too radical even today by members of our own party. So no, Sanders is clearly in FDRs camp, and has been since he began political office.

[Hortensis]

49. :) One guess what is preferred by "the masses" these days?

Never assume the direction the winds are blowing the national weather vane reflect politicians' true beliefs. The establishment capitalism-based New Deal was an enormous success, the socialism that lost out to it never has been. So Sanders now claims to be the establishment candidate and adopts RW-leaning nationalism to boot. What "revolution"?

Bernie Sanders Calls His Brand of Socialism a Pathway to Beating Trump: Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont offered a strong defense of democratic socialism in an effort to fend off criticism about his electability as he seeks the Democratic nomination for president.

For five decades, Bernie Sanders has embraced the label of democratic socialism, one that has defined his political

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont offered a vigorous defense of the democratic socialism that has defined his five decades in political life on Wednesday, while tying his presidential campaign to the legacies of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Martin Luther King Jr.

Sliding in public polling and seeking to seize attention in a sprawling Democratic primary field, Mr. Sanders cast himself at times in direct competition with President Trump, contrasting his own collectivist views against what he called the “corporate socialism” practiced by the president and the Republican Party.

(Oh brother. THAT's what the right's slide into fascistic kleptocracy is?) ...

Mr. Sanders — an independent who has not joined the Democratic Party but is making his second bid for its presidential nomination — presented his vision of democratic socialism not as a set of extreme principles but as a pathway to “economic rights,” invoking the accomplishments of Roosevelt and King. He argued that his ideology is embodied by longstanding popular programs, including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, that Republicans have labeled socialist. ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/us/politics/bernie-sanders-socialism.html

NO to that last. Those programs are government controlled but capitalism-based and privately owned. Extremely different from the socialism Republicans try to smear them as.

Btw, if haven't you found out what socialism is yet, surely it's past time? It's important to know when politicians are trying to sucker us. Big no to being dittoheads. If there was even a slight chance this nation could turn socialist, democratic socialist version or any other, stockholders and retirement funds would be dumping like nothing you can imagine.

[Tiggeroshii]

50. Socialists in Europe are also far from socialist, but somehow they keep the name.

It isn't a coincidence that the Marshall plan integrated all of the ideals of FDR's second bill of rights into the rebuilding of Europe. Sanders has proposed nothing more than European style economic reforms, which originated from FDR.

[Hortensis]

54. Lol. If Sanders announced pants would now be called

brassieres, I truly believe some of his more ardent followers might insist they of course were wearing shirts and bras right now and always had, but that wouldn't make it so. No matter how determinedly they believed it. And not even if they offered up as "proof" that Europeans had always pulled on their bras one leg at a time. Not even if they posted a picture (I'm pretty sure there must be a few on the web).

Words have meanings.
Truths are also real.
Falsehoods are not

[Tiggeroshii]

55. I feel like you ignored everything that I just said.

But that's fine. Happy Friday!

[Demsrule86]

66. No ....FDR was a Democrat. Sanders is not. Thus Sanders is not like FDR...and FDR the man not the

myth held different views.

[Buzz cook]

31. LBJ passed more progressive legislation than FDR.

Johnson in his four year term pass dozens of bills.

Jimmy Carter also passed lots of legislation and tried to pass universal health care, but was stopped by members of his own party.

Nixon attempted universal health care, democrats didn't want republicans to get credit.

[Tiggeroshii]

34. Johnson gave us Medicare, but beyond that FDR has him beat with Social Security which was

revolutionary, Welfare and the modern Social safety net.

Kudos to Carter, but his proposals fell short of the second bill of rights.

And Nixon? He proposed what we now know as Obamacare, and Democrats stopped it because they wanted Universal Healthcare.


Nobody has pursued every facet of the 2nd bill of rights like Bernie has.

[ehrnst]

45. What do you mean by "pursue?" Talk about?

Many have talked about them, and for longer than Bernie has.

[lapucelle]

58. In BS's home state VT: "Sanders urged legislative leaders to pass $15 wage -- it didn't work"

Many have also "talked" more effectively.

Sanders urged legislative leaders to pass $15 wage — it didn’t work
By Kit Norton
Jun 13 2019

Sanders, both through introducing legislation and his presidential campaign, has also been putting pressure on private businesses — including the online retail giant Amazon, Walmart and fast-food chain McDonald’s — to offer employees a $15 minimum wage.

But in Vermont, he has stayed mostly silent on the debate over raising the minimum wage.

Sanders’ decision to call the meeting in January — a month before he would formally announce his presidential bid — marks a departure from the usual role of Vermont’s congressional delegation.

snip==========================================

“

That meeting was at the request of Sen. Sanders to sit down and talk about what the Vermont Legislature was going to do and from my perspective, I’m happy to work with the federal delegation, but these were mainly issues the Vermont Legislature needed to wrestle with,” Johnson said.

Senate President Pro Tem Tim Ashe, D/P-Chittenden, who was a member of Sanders’ congressional staff in Vermont from 1999 to 2001, said the meeting had been a “positive discussion” and a “sharing of ideas.”

But Johnson said she had been more interested in discussing broadband internet development with Sanders and possible federal support for Vermont, which ranks among the worst in the country for cellular service.

https://vtdigger.org/2019/06/13/sanders-urged-legislative-leaders-pass-15-wage-didnt-work/

[ehrnst]

44. Forty years? "Put his reputation on the line? " Let's unpack this

Not sure what "put his reputation on the line" means... can you clarify?

Bernie hasn't been "doing" all these things for "40 years," by any stretch.

Teddy Kennedy accomplished far more - he got programs into existence, for instance, CHIP. Ted Kennedy went to bat for Single Payer back in 1972, when Sanders was writing essays. Paul Wellstone was certainly more influential and accomplished in his short time in the Senate, partly because he had more interpersonal skills.

Democrats have been fighting for fair pay, increased taxes on the wealthy, criminal justice reform, and universal health care - with more success, since way before Bernie ran as one temporarily in 2016, then again in 2019.

Elizabeth Warren got the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau into being, in a much, much shorter career than Sanders. She has pushed the conversation about income inequality much further in a much shorter period of time. She and Wellstone were professors, so they may have the tools to make a case and educate the public in a more effective way. They also have a respect for incorporating new information into their strategies, as opposed to rejecting it meant they needed to change course on something.

Bernie has made many, many promises that he's never been in a position to deliver, so when was there an opportunity to "go back on his word?"

There have been times when he didn't follow through or was less "evolved" than he stated he was. He voted that gay marriage should be up to the states, but then when asked about if he supported gay marriage in Vermont, he stated that it was "too divisive" during that election year.

He certainly has doubled down and gone on the offensive when he's been fact checked, and been found to has made statements that turned out to be false.


https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/jun/11/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-oversimplifies-record-hyde-amendmen/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/18/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-wrong-voter-turnout-hit-20-year-low/

[shanny]

6. He does.

It is beyond my comprehension that the legacy of FDR has been so systematically forgotten and/or ignored. That legacy was a deliberate tactic to avoid the rise of extremists of any stripe by giving people a seat at the table.

And it worked. Even for the rich. We should not have forgotten it.

[Tiggeroshii]

8. Thank you, Shanny!

Hopefully whoever is the nominee does not ignore the transformational wisdom and legacy that FDR left behind

[shanny]

10. +a zillion

[ehrnst]

46. It is a legacy. The situation in the US was different than it is now, so

updated strategies are called for.

Someone who considers not budging an inch on one's strategies, even after getting new data, a trademark isn't someone who is going to be a source for evaluating what new strategies are needed.

[Kurt V.]

53. +1

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. He sure is T... tip of the hat to Bernie!! He's awesome!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[SergeStorms]

40. He's not a democrat.

He caucuses with democrats and uses their political machinery pretending to be a democrat, but he's an Independent.

[Honeycombe8]

61. +1. nt

[Honeycombe8]

2. FDR was not a socialist or Democratic Socialist.

He was dealing with the serious Great Depression, brought on by corruption by the wealthy class. FDR's class. And trying to help the masses, some of whom were literally starving.

That corruption came back and brought on the Great Recession. But no worse now than in 2007 (not speaking of Trump, which is something else).

So although there are similarities in programs and statements, to imply that FDR was a socialist is incorrect. He was a Democrat and a capitalist who believed that everyone deserved opportunity. The opportunities that were taken from them by the corrupt wealthy class. But that there were times, like during the Great Depression, when the government has to step in to ease the mass suffering of the citizens. Most of the things he did were temporary, but he did start the most successful program in U S History: Social Security. Most seniors at that time lived in poverty after working their entire lives.

I believe that FDR related to the masses who were suffering through no fault of their own, because he had gotten polio, so had experienced the suffering that comes with a situation that you did not cause and could not have prevented. It gave him empathy that many of his fellow wealthy class members did not have.

Truman's comments were in response to "socialist" comments made by Republicans. He didn't state or imply he was a socialist.

So I think that's a stretch for Bernie to say what he said. But that's why Bernie caucuses with the Democrats. That party does support the workers and ordinary citizens more than the Republican Party does, and does believe in some social programs to act as a safety net for those who need it.

One thing I can say for Bernie, though, is that he's very strong on FDR's Social Security program. He wouldn't be manipulated into giving up those much needed benefits.

[Thekaspervote]

3. Agree..many many differences between the 2 men. Minimal similarities

[Tiggeroshii]

11. FDR gave us dem socialist policies. If you remove labels, Bernie is the closest to him

Universal healthcare is a Democratic Socialist policy (part of original social security plan), Social Security was a democratic socialist policy, as was welfare and public works program. No other Democrat besides Bernie has pursued FDR's radical agenda consistently over 40 years with such zeal that includes guaranteed housing, guaranteed job, universal healthcare, the right to higher education, strong unions and fair pay for every American. The second bill of rights virtually evaporated with FDR until Bernie arrived.

[George II]

12. No he didn't, and no he isn't.

[Tiggeroshii]

18. Yes he did, and yes he is.

So there!

[Honeycombe8]

37. FDR was a lifelong member of the Democratic Party, unlike Bernie.

FDR was a member of the Democratic Party who had lived a privileged life of wealth and had been an exec in a financial firm at one point. He was a capitalist and believer in a big military, who came to believe in some social programs as a safety net (which is what America is now).

What FDR did was in keeping w/the existing American economics policies, but pushed to the limit because of the Great Depression that was caused by corrupt wealth run amok. He NEVER held the belief that the govt should own all the programs, the banks, etc., as Bernie has espoused.

Laws were changed and regulations put in, to help prevent the Great Depression from happening again.

His beliefs were similar to REPUBLICAN President Teddy Roosevelt's belief. That the govt had a role to play in protecting the people from economic and political power.

But gotta give it to Bernie for giving that a try. He apparently made it work well enough for his supporters to feel better.

[Honeycombe8]

39. The 1935 SS Act did not provide universal hc.

The first national benefit plan was in 1776. The next was a pension program for soldiers of the Civil War. It included old-age benefits by the 1900s. Then FDR got passed the first official Social Security Act. It provided for several things, but not universal health care.

The Great Depression called for radical action to help the country's economy and its citizens.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt planned for federally sponsored health insurance to be part of Social Security. It was thrown out in order to hurry the bill through Congress. By the time he and subsequent presidents attempted to return to the matter, conservatives had branded universal health care as part of a socialist agenda.

https://timeline.com/social-security-universal-health-care-efe875bbda93

FDR tried to get a nat'l health care program passed, but died before he succeeded. Truman took up the cause (the "Fair Deal" ), but that failed.

LBJ finally succeeded into signing into law Medicare.

Huey Long, a Democrat & gov of Louisiana, was probably more like Bernie than anyone. He may have been a member of the Democratic Party, but he wanted the govt to take over banks and even confiscate some of the wealth of the wealthy and share it with the common people. He wanted a guaranteed annual income for people. Things like that.

[lapucelle]

57. Reporter: "Are you a socialist? " FDR: "No, I am [...] a Democrat."

A young reporter once asked him, “Are you a socialist?”
“No.”

“Are you a capitalist?”
“No.”

“Well, what is your philosophy?”

“Philosophy? I am a Christian and a Democrat--- That’s all.”

I am a Democrat---that's all.

The Defining Moment: FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope
By Jonathan Alter
p. 244

[Honeycombe8]

60. Good quote.

I take that to mean that he didn't want to get into labels about his economic philosophy and such. He's a Democrat, and what goes along with that, whatever that is.

Whatever he was, he was a remarkable man who came along at a pivotal moment in history. He was singularly up to the task of helping the country get through the Great Depression. I can't imagine how horrible it would have been for the people had a Republican austerity approach believer been in office during that time.

His wife was equally remarkable. The country was so lucky to have them. Democrats!

[shanny]

4. FDR, a son of "old-money" wealth

had the benefit of seeing the rise of extremists (which he was not) on both sides: the Russian revolution and the rise of fascism in Germany and Italy. He knew that if steps were not taken to literally share the wealth with the common people, a revolution would ensue. He took those steps, despite being reviled by his own social class. His programs built the middle class.

And Americans kept electing him until he died.

[LibFarmer]

15. Comparing Bernie with FDR

reminded me of the Dan Quayle - Lloyd Bentsen debate.

Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy. (Prolonged shouts and applause)

[Thekaspervote]

16. Good analogy!

[Tiggeroshii]

19. Bernie is the only one proposing policies akin to the second bill of rights.

Have you heard of it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

[LibFarmer]

21. ...

[Tiggeroshii]

22. Am I wrong?

He wants guaranteed access to healthcare, guaranteed quality higher education, guaranteed access to food and housing. He wants to create fair economic compeition, and elminate the possibility of monopolies. All of these are illustrated in the second bill of rights, and few Democrats have come close to asserting the same radical agenda that FDR proposed in his SOU in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

[LibFarmer]

23. Wants Wants Wants

Where will the money come from?

How will it even pass?

Anyone can SAY anything. Without a detailed policy proposal and a plan to put it in action, it is just slogans and platitudes.

[Tiggeroshii]

24. Genuine concerns. What isn't at issue is that the policies came from FDR

[LibFarmer]

25. ...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287150481#post15

[Tiggeroshii]

27. Do you truly believe that Bernie pushing policies in the spirit of FDR

is the same as Dan Quayle claiming to be friends with JFK?

Especially knowing that he is nearly word for word trying to keep those same policy proposals that FDR gave us, alive?

[Buzz cook]

32. Most of those have been on the democratic party

platform for years.

[Honeycombe8]

63. I've never heard of that.

Remarkable. But I can see why that was never passed. It was extreme and I assume the result of the harm done to citizens by the corrupt wealthy resulting in the Great Depression. I don't see how it is even possible to guarantee some of those things. I don't think it is.

[emmaverybo]

20. Yes! Nt

[Tiggeroshii]

26. FDRproposed to us the Second Bill of Rights in 1944

Bernie is the only politician keeping those ideas in the spotlight.

The Second Bill of Rights is a list of rights that was proposed by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt during his State of the Union Address on Tuesday, January 11, 1944.[1] In his address, Roosevelt suggested that the nation had come to recognize and should now implement, a second "bill of rights". Roosevelt's argument was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness". His remedy was to declare an "economic bill of rights" to guarantee these specific rights:

Employment (right to work[notes 1]), food, clothing and leisure with enough income to support them
Farmers' rights to a fair income
Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
Housing
Medical care
Social security
Education

Roosevelt stated that having such rights would guarantee American security and that the United States' place in the world depended upon how far the rights had been carried into practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

[Honeycombe8]

62. I remember that, too. That was a great moment. nt

[betsuni]

28. To me, the obsession with FDR

is simply a way of blaming Democrats for what Republicans have done since 1980. FDR had Democratic majorities in both chambers for years. Of course he got things done. Clinton and Obama had two years (Obama only four months and ten days of 60 votes in the Senate). And the Republicans in FDR's day weren't nutty idiots.

[Buzz cook]

33. The republicans in FDR's day tried a military coup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[betsuni]

36. Yes, I know.

[Honeycombe8]

64. Oh, my...the Republicans in FDR's day WERE indeed wacko idiots.

Just like now. They CAUSED the Great Depression, just like they caused the Great Recession years later. Belief in oligarchy, corrupt wealthy running everything, no workers' rights. Same as today.

Except for a few of them, like FDR's cousin, Teddy Roosevelt (R), who started the National Park system. He's turning over in his grave over what Trump is doing to the National Parks.

[betsuni]

65. No, they weren't Tea Party religious fundamentalist nuts.

Belief in oligarchy, corrupt wealthy running everything, no workers's rights, etc., is usual for Republicans. Not what I'm talking about.

[Honeycombe8]

67. The Tea Party isn't know for its religious zeal.

So I don't know what you mean by wacko.

Religion played an even more important role in politics at the beginning of the last century.

[NNadir]

38. He is almost old enough, and overall, FDR's real sons were spectacularly unsuccessful...

...politicians.

It's definitely true that Bernie Sanders is living in the 1930's and is ill equipped to deal with the realities of the 21st century, so I buy that too.

[brooklynite]

41. Bernie Sanders is a Socialist...Bernie Sanders is like FDR...therefore FDR was a Socialist?

Did I get the logic correctly?

[comradebillyboy]

51. The logic is seriously flawed in that Bernie isn't at all

like FDR. He just says he is.

[Trumpocalypse]

42. FDR was not a socalist

In many ways FDR was the savior of capitalism.

[OilemFirchen]

47. The only President in the modern era to enact an actual Socialist policy was Woodrow Wilson.

In 1917 he nationalized the railroads, albeit (by design) temporarily.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/u-s-government-takes-over-control-of-nations-railroads

[stonecutter357]

52. lol !

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

56. FDR was never a socialist.

The programs he pushed through Congress were specifically designed to deal with the immediate and dire consequences of the Depression, not to fundamentally alter the ideology underlying the United States' economic system. He came up with the basic designs of some of these economic relief programs when he was the governor of New York, which was already feeling the effects of the Depression. The various programs and the newly-created agencies implemented the vast federal spending that was necessary for economic recovery, but the country started to slide back into recession in 1939 because of the Republicans' opposition to FDR's social programs. It was the entry of the US into WWII that caused increased spending and stopped the recession.

Roosevelt's New Deal reforms didn't challenge the system of private profit but sought to regulate and channel it. Thus the Securities and Exchange Commission was set up in 1934 to correct abuses of the financial markets and the National Labor Relations Board was created in 1935 to protect workers' rights to organize unions.

The federal government, adopting new ideas for the time, spent to create jobs in programs with alphabet names, such as the NRA (National Recovery Administration), WPA (Works Progress Administration) and CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps). Federal efforts reclaimed farmland from swamp and transformed an entire section of the country through the Tennessee Valley Authority.

In the New Deal there was a tug of war between those who favored a centrally planned economy and those who believed that a reliance on small business and decentralized economic power would bring about recovery. The decentralizers prevailed.

This belief in decentralized and democratic economic power characterized the most important reform of the Roosevelt era: Social Security.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-oct-25-ss-26179-story.html

Clearly, FDR was an advocate of regulated capitalism and not socialism; he actively resisted "socialist" remedies (state ownership of business) and central planning.

[Blue_true]

59. Very good post.

I have for a while believe that FDR expertly went for the low hanging fruit but left tougher social issues untouched.

The SEC was easy. Few could rationally defend the people that ran the country off a cliff.

The NRA, CCC, WPA were also achievable, lots of young White men were unemployed and large swatches of the country needed developments, electrification or reclamation.

Social Security was tougher but it also was a program that was designed so that few would live long enough to collect substantially.

FDR did not get universal healthcare, did not move the needle meaningfully on civil rights for colored people (what African Americans were called during that era) or American Indians.