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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

RandySF

(57,588 posts)
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 03:49 PM Jun 2019

Nate Silver: Bernie should be concerned about Warren's momentum.





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While Sanders supporters and Warren supporters are far from perfectly overlapping, if I were Bernie's campaign I'd nonetheless be concerned that if Warren passes me in the polls at some point, it could trigger a bandwagon effect that would be hard to come back from.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
153 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Nate Silver: Bernie should be concerned about Warren's momentum. (Original Post) RandySF Jun 2019 OP
Is the Bernie Thing wearing thin? Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #1
I hope so Skittles Jun 2019 #9
Sanders is an American hero and a national treasure DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #16
By the time we hit October, Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #20
And keep educating ourselves about all the issues DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #21
The quite undertow is,the Young Voters Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #22
But they are on the right side to beat trump. No solely "progressive" is going to get independents wasupaloopa Jun 2019 #30
Many independents lean left. BlueWI Jun 2019 #83
The point is that there are not enough progressives wasupaloopa Jun 2019 #92
There are Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #104
I don't think Obama was the more liberal contender (and I don't mean to say he's not liberal) LisaM Jun 2019 #152
I agree to a point. BlueWI Jun 2019 #153
One has to win 11-12% of those Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #103
What happened then? Celerity Jun 2019 #102
Should be 1960 sorry, the College Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #106
I am deffo gonna to read up on the late 50's to early 60's period in terms of the youth movements. Celerity Jun 2019 #107
Hey,that short period of time was a true blast. Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #108
Greatest Music known to man kind came from the Garage Bands Celerity Jun 2019 #109
Couple of groups, Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #110
Not many of the "College Campus Crowd"... brooklynite Jun 2019 #146
Based on the past I'll treat him with distain than you. He is no national treasure to me. wasupaloopa Jun 2019 #28
The way he's been treated by the establishment is no surprise. DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #34
Sorry I don't buy it. Bernie is a Dem when it is convinient wasupaloopa Jun 2019 #44
Voters decided the 2016 nomination. It is way past time that people get thst Blue_true Jun 2019 #48
Mahalo, Blue_true.. Cha Jun 2019 #62
Cha, there is no response that will pull them out of that space. Blue_true Jun 2019 #79
Yeah, I wonder who Cha Jun 2019 #88
. Blue_true Jun 2019 #115
Oh Please.. "Establishment" "Establishment" Cha Jun 2019 #61
Yeah, there's an establishment. And an establishment mentality. DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #70
It's part of the pendulum cycle. History swings back and forth between the poles. marylandblue Jun 2019 #72
Thank you! And I love that Buttigieg. DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #73
Warren is my.second choice👍 marylandblue Jun 2019 #74
Many of us just don't like him.. Cha Jun 2019 #75
You haven't said anything to suggest you understood, or even cared about, what I just wrote. DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #80
I give respect to those who have earned Cha Jun 2019 #89
You sound like an autocrat, not a humane Democrat. DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #93
Ironic that you allege that of someone else... LanternWaste Jun 2019 #99
Thank You, LanternWaste! Cha Jun 2019 #112
+++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Jun 2019 #113
Here's an insightful post for you.. Cha Jun 2019 #111
What a terrible thing to say mcar Jun 2019 #114
Mahalo, mcar! Cha Jun 2019 #123
This is OTT, Cha mcar Jun 2019 #128
I agree.. I would Cha Jun 2019 #130
Really? You have no idea about who you just attacked. George II Jun 2019 #126
... sheshe2 Jun 2019 #133
Projection? (nt) ehrnst Jun 2019 #141
Nina...Is That You? Me. Jun 2019 #144
This message was self-deleted by its author sheshe2 Jun 2019 #119
Wow first you say sheshe2 Jun 2019 #120
Ikr, she.. Mahalo. Cha Jun 2019 #121
You are welcome Cha. sheshe2 Jun 2019 #125
OK for me but not for thee mcar Jun 2019 #129
Apparently, mcar. sheshe2 Jun 2019 #132
Your preferred candidate would be appalled at what you are saying obamanut2012 Jun 2019 #149
American hero? Seriously? Such hyperbole lunamagica Jun 2019 #33
Exactly, Lunamagica! Cha Jun 2019 #63
There is no hyperbole grand or righteous enough for the Sacred Cow. LanternWaste Jun 2019 #100
Don't forget "a national treasure". lapucelle Jun 2019 #151
I really have a hard time finding anything heroic in any of it, NNadir Jun 2019 #81
For one, he opened up the national discourse to the DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #94
I would suggest you need to understand what... NNadir Jun 2019 #95
Thank You, NNadir! Cha Jun 2019 #122
"The best that can be said for him is that he's not Trump", but they have similar "heroic".... George II Jun 2019 #131
You have evidence directly supporting your premise? LanternWaste Jun 2019 #101
No he didn't. It wasn't "his" doing, that discourse has been going on for decades.... George II Jun 2019 #124
Ganging up on relative newcomers? What do you all gain? DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #136
"Ganging up"? Care to address what I posted about the Clayton Act or Sherman Act? I'll wait. George II Jun 2019 #137
You attacked another DUer, some of us defended her mcar Jun 2019 #140
I don't think that 's a fair take DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #145
You called another DUer an autocrat and inhumane because your feelings were hurt? mcar Jun 2019 #147
"American hero." WTF? NT SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #98
lolz calling Harris and Warren "young," like they are whippersnappers obamanut2012 Jun 2019 #148
Beyond thin, it's approaching threadbare. George II Jun 2019 #127
It seems to be trending in that direction. TwilightZone Jun 2019 #2
Her brilliance is difficult to hide. She was always one of my favs but she is definitely moving up. monmouth4 Jun 2019 #5
She's brilliant and she doesn't speak in slogans or platitudes. n/t pnwmom Jun 2019 #12
Bernie changed the national narrative precisely BECAUSE he repeated his concerns DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #18
If he had conceded once Hillary's win was inevitable, when all the R's were campaigning for Trump, pnwmom Jun 2019 #25
I really don't want to chew old gum, but he had pretty good reasons. DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #29
Pretty good reasons for not conceding when he knew he could not win, which lunamagica Jun 2019 #35
".. pretty good reasons.." Cha Jun 2019 #68
I know, Cha! I guess to some, Sanders comes before the nation! lunamagica Jun 2019 #90
Unreal.. very disrespectful of our Cha Jun 2019 #91
What in the heck do you mean by that? Blue_true Jun 2019 #49
Oh? What reasons, pray tell. mcar Jun 2019 #116
Okay. He has repeated his concerns. sheshe2 Jun 2019 #134
I supported Bernie Sanders in the last primary.... Boomer Jun 2019 #39
There was a lot of support for a Warren run here in 2016. TwilightZone Jun 2019 #41
The gene test hurt her and made her seem weak. marylandblue Jun 2019 #82
It always looked petty. TwilightZone Jun 2019 #87
Warren isn't my top choice Dopers_Greed Jun 2019 #3
I predict once the debates begin, there will be a mass defection from Bernie to Warren Fiendish Thingy Jun 2019 #4
No one True Blue American Jun 2019 #8
Perhaps you are neglecting to learn about democratic socialism. luvtheGWN Jun 2019 #17
"It doesn't mean what you think it means." TwilightZone Jun 2019 #32
No. they are not interchangeable. luvtheGWN Jun 2019 #43
Okay, but Canada isn't socialist or communist. marylandblue Jun 2019 #69
Not true - universal healthcare and a living wage were rejected by Dem mainstream for decades Fiendish Thingy Jun 2019 #23
You must have missed the mid 1990s. TwilightZone Jun 2019 #38
Did you read the article you linked? Takket Jun 2019 #60
They're not "progressives" - they're rational, clear-eyed Democrats DemocracyMouse Jun 2019 #31
Excuse me? Boomer Jun 2019 #40
"I predict once the debates begin, there will be a mass defection from Bernie to Warren." LenaBaby61 Jun 2019 #42
Elizabeth Warren wants to pay for her plans Eric J in MN Jun 2019 #55
On what grounds would SCOTUS rule Warren's tax unconstitutional ? Nt Fiendish Thingy Jun 2019 #59
The text of Constitution Eric J in MN Jun 2019 #76
Turley makes a weak case for unconstitutionality, and concedes any SCOTUS case would be "close" Fiendish Thingy Jun 2019 #77
Yes. If Elizabeth Warren had proposed Eric J in MN Jun 2019 #78
Here's a legal opinion that says it's Constitutional marylandblue Jun 2019 #84
I'm not taking a position on whether it's constitutional in the abstract. Eric J in MN Jun 2019 #138
Senator Warren is a far better candidate. NYMinute Jun 2019 #6
She held a Leo Gottleib professorship at Harvard law, after a long and illustrious career pnwmom Jun 2019 #15
Nah. Bernie's basically MLK now... SidDithers Jun 2019 #7
OMG! You're killing me! NurseJackie Jun 2019 #10
Yeah, No. Cha Jun 2019 #13
... mcar Jun 2019 #24
.... ehrnst Jun 2019 #143
IMO the junior senator from VT should be thrilled tishaLA Jun 2019 #11
He should drop out and endorse her lunamagica Jun 2019 #36
He should. n/t pnwmom Jun 2019 #47
Slogans of Elizabeth Warren Eric J in MN Jun 2019 #56
I'm sorry to see that you'd diminish the senior senator from MA tishaLA Jun 2019 #64
That's ridiculous and Cha Jun 2019 #67
She has both slogans and policies. A rare wonk who can speak in sound bites. marylandblue Jun 2019 #71
I like those slogans mcar Jun 2019 #117
I personally wouldn't be opposed to a Warren/Sanders ticket. The Liberal Lion Jun 2019 #14
I would really hate that. I think EW is smarter than that. ecstatic Jun 2019 #86
I seriously doubt that EW would choose BS for Cha Jun 2019 #19
me too Kurt V. Jun 2019 #27
No way in hell, lol. MrsCoffee Jun 2019 #96
Go Elizabeth Warren! At least "you have a plan for that." wasupaloopa Jun 2019 #26
How many delegates do they each have so far? Martin Eden Jun 2019 #37
Poor Nate. He thinks winning is Bernie's only goal. aikoaiko Jun 2019 #45
That's an interesting assertion. TwilightZone Jun 2019 #51
Exactly BS wants to win.. otherwise why Cha Jun 2019 #57
Go Warren!!!! Skid Rogue Jun 2019 #46
This Biden supporter agrees! Cha Jun 2019 #66
Sirota just blocked Nate on Twitter Gothmog Jun 2019 #50
Wow.. Thanks, Goth! Cha Jun 2019 #118
The fact that Sirota blocked Nate is interesting Gothmog Jun 2019 #135
If Bernie really cared about his issues aeromanKC Jun 2019 #52
Too late for concern customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #53
Warren could handle trump, I believe Irishxs Jun 2019 #54
You can't ever say Warren is not a true blood Democrat to her core Bhkylib Jun 2019 #58
EW is 1% ahead of BS in Wisconsin right now.. Cha Jun 2019 #65
Bernie and trump's supporters overlap as well. The trump supporting berners would never vote ecstatic Jun 2019 #85
Where are these mythical saidsimplesimon Jun 2019 #105
Warren is for things. SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #97
Your observations are correct. Well said! NurseJackie Jun 2019 #139
+1000. (nt) ehrnst Jun 2019 #142
Sanders wants Democrats to think that Warren's gains are a function of moderates. They aren't Gothmog Jun 2019 #150
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
1. Is the Bernie Thing wearing thin?
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:04 PM
Jun 2019

Everyone is more attuned after this past week and Ponzi Don's wag the dog Iranian stunt.

If you have a plan,well,that is what the Nation is waiting for,not some Hot Button Phrases that we all have heard before, but some doable plan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
16. Sanders is an American hero and a national treasure
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:19 PM
Jun 2019

He may, in the end, be eclipsed by younger politicians like Harris, Warren and Buttigieg, but there is no reason to treat him with such disdain. The man has been working ceaselessly to get people to wake up. He has paved a path forward for other cleared-eyed patriots willing to address corporate abuses and extreme inequality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
20. By the time we hit October,
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:31 PM
Jun 2019

we will know who is and who will not be a player. This is going to be one hell of a summer for we Dems. Have not seen this amount of enthusiasm since since the summer of 62' Keep it up gang.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
21. And keep educating ourselves about all the issues
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:35 PM
Jun 2019

that folks like Bernie have shed light on... even if he hasn't had the same spotlight he once had, I'm glad he's made the media take all smart, well-researched Dem leaders seriously. (I refuse to call Harris, Warren, Bernie et al "progressives" because they are actually TRADITIONAL New Deal Democrats. And they're on the RIGHT side of history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
22. The quite undertow is,the Young Voters
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:42 PM
Jun 2019

who will or will not continue to get evolved. The last three Election Cycles,our Phone Bank Group,which is mostly 70+ folks from a long lost era,love the new Organizers and Team Leads. Lots of stiff fingers and grey hair ,but,at the end of the day,we get the job done.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
30. But they are on the right side to beat trump. No solely "progressive" is going to get independents
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:02 PM
Jun 2019

and never trumpers.

We can't win with just "progressives." It's about time we acknowledge that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
83. Many independents lean left.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:48 PM
Jun 2019

Did anyone ever say we could win with just progressives?

Other than Obama, the last time the more liberal contender won the Democratic nomination was McGovern in 1972. So, seems to me that there is no consistent lean towards more progressive candidates in the Democratic party.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
92. The point is that there are not enough progressives
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:44 AM
Jun 2019

who vote to defeat trump.

Also there are many non progressives who would ordinarily vote for Repubs but whose votes can be had to help defeat trump.

Combine that with the fact that no progressive legislation will pass without Dems being in power.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
104. There are
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:48 PM
Jun 2019

plenty of Progressives out there,key is to get them past their friggin single issue and see the larger picture.

If you don't vote,you lose your right to bitch.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LisaM

(27,758 posts)
152. I don't think Obama was the more liberal contender (and I don't mean to say he's not liberal)
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 07:01 PM
Jun 2019

The original field in 2008 was winnowed down to Edwards, HRC, and Obama, and I don't think any of them stands out as being the "most progressive". I thought they were all left center, and I'd even say Edwards' economic thinking was the most left leaning.

That said, I don't think we were talking huge differences between those three.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
153. I agree to a point.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:32 AM
Jun 2019

Edwards was probably the most liberal economically, but his implosion happened early on.

Obama's left leaning was more cultural, and all in all, I think he favored a move away from interventionism abroad compared to the others.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
103. One has to win 11-12% of those
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:45 PM
Jun 2019

20% in the middle. The Fake Third Party took 5% away from the Dems in 16'and that was the difference.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,632 posts)
102. What happened then?
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:16 PM
Jun 2019
have not seen this amount of enthusiasm since since the summer of 62'


Over 33 years before I was born, and I have no significant academic knowledge of any major events that come to mind.

1962 United States elections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_United_States_elections

The 1962 United States elections were held on November 6, and elected the members of the 88th United States Congress. The election occurred in the middle of Democratic President John F. Kennedy's term. The Republican Party picked up four seats in the House of Representatives, but the Democrats retained strong majorities in both houses of Congress. In the Senate, Democrats won a net gain of four seats from the Republicans, maintaining control of the Senate. In the gubernatorial elections, neither party won a net gain of seats.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
106. Should be 1960 sorry, the College
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:57 PM
Jun 2019

Campus crowd drove that Election. Ike and Nixon soured the youngsters on the Rethugs. In 62' the voting Rights issue was just coming into focus and the sides were already being chosen.

Now we are seeing this enthusiasm similar to 1960 emerging among the Young Voters,they are paying attention to their Future much like we had our Ideals of the Future in 1959 and 1960. When your life opportunities seem limited by the Power Structure,things tend to swing to a positive correction.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,632 posts)
107. I am deffo gonna to read up on the late 50's to early 60's period in terms of the youth movements.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 02:02 PM
Jun 2019

In fact I will expand this to the entire post WWII, 1945 to 1963 (death of JFK) period.

Thank you for your info!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
108. Hey,that short period of time was a true blast.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 02:08 PM
Jun 2019

High School Dress Codes were changed for the better. Some of the Greatest Music known to man kind came from the Garage Bands,whom my Buddy and I were volunteer Roadies on Weekends.

The powers that be tried their damnest to quell that change with Nam,only to make more young people aware of change.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,632 posts)
109. Greatest Music known to man kind came from the Garage Bands
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 02:41 PM
Jun 2019

My grandfather turned me onto this one, from NYC, in the early to mid 1960's. This song is the dog's bollocks.

The Groupies - Primitive (1966)





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
110. Couple of groups,
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 03:49 PM
Jun 2019

The Trashman and their Suffin Bird. Later the Guy's put together the White Sidewalls. Fitting,we were all older than dirt. Plus my Buddy would rope me into his gig's with the Ambassadors and The Commador's Orchatras's. Both being Farm Kids,some of our nights became several days long. We had Cows to milk at 5 AM . What a Hoot. Back then if you were a good Horn Man,you could pick up a flying twenty just to sit in with these big national Bands during their Tours.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,834 posts)
146. Not many of the "College Campus Crowd"...
Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:05 PM
Jun 2019

...Voting age in those days was 21.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
28. Based on the past I'll treat him with distain than you. He is no national treasure to me.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:00 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
34. The way he's been treated by the establishment is no surprise.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:14 PM
Jun 2019

Electoral votes were not tied to turnout in the first round of voting. Wasserman-Schultz has apologized for her role and everyone has tried to move on. The Democrats, I hope, will give this new round of primary candidates a fair shake. Biden should not be given unfair advantages. If the field narrows, he may well be second or even third once the dust settles.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
44. Sorry I don't buy it. Bernie is a Dem when it is convinient
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 07:01 PM
Jun 2019

for him. I vote for Dems and want our money spent there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
48. Voters decided the 2016 nomination. It is way past time that people get thst
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:53 PM
Jun 2019

in their heads, men and women, voting one at a time decided the 2016 party nominee, Wasserman-Schultz was not behind a curtain manipulating them.

Please drop the nonsense that the 2016 primary was rigged, it was not rigged.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
62. Mahalo, Blue_true..
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:52 AM
Jun 2019

It's ridiculous.. I don't even know how to respond to such nonsense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
79. Cha, there is no response that will pull them out of that space.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:52 PM
Jun 2019

Just like rightwingers that see mysterious black helicopters everywhere, people on the left that are convinced that the 2016 primary was rigged are going to cling to their fantasy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
88. Yeah, I wonder who
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:17 AM
Jun 2019

put that in their heads?

Never mind.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
61. Oh Please.. "Establishment" "Establishment"
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:47 AM
Jun 2019

"Establishment".. John Lewis is "Establishment".. We have actual national treasures who happen to be "Establishment".

We Won the Democratic House Victory in the Blue Wave Midterms with mostly Moderates.. Excellent Dems!

That "establishment" label is such a divisive insult..

BS was on tv right After the 2016 Election calling us, the Democratic Party, "elite".. he's been running for 2020 since then.. he has name recognition and he's behind Elizabeth Warren in Wisconsin.







If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
70. Yeah, there's an establishment. And an establishment mentality.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:56 AM
Jun 2019

But it's finally changing thanks to folks like Bernie and AOC and Elijah and Maxine.

I watched year after year since the 1970s and after Ronald Reagan came to power, as Democrats gave up fighting the power and began to forget their FDR traditions, that which helped to build a strong middle class in this country.

Then the Republicans, year after year, played race cards, and their fear and "law and order" cards. The Democrats, including the Clinton administration, began to compromise. Year after year. I was quite awake and reading (not just "watching&quot the news.

Thankfully new journals like Mother Jones, The Utne Reader, Mother Earth News began to emerge to broaden a discourse and include environmental and social justice issues. The New York Times covered some of that, but without teeth or conviction.

Then brilliant filmmakers like Spike Lee, and early rap groups like Public Enemy, began using phrases like "fight the power" – visibly – in their work. Independent journals began covering the growing relationship between corporations and BOTH parties. It took decades to build enough of a groundswell of a REAL (small d) democratic underground to start questioning whether the Democratic establishment had begun to slide backwards. Occupy Wall Street and a general waking up of the public at large, along with outspoken politicians like Bernie Sanders, has begun to make it "acceptable" to question monopolies and the 1% and corporate collusion with both parties. Oy vey, the years we have let Big Oil fund "research" distracting the public from the truth of global warming...

All the Democratic candidates are relatively "woke" now, and I'm grateful. Some a little late to the party, but thank goodness we've begun to establish a new normal.

Bernie isn't perfect, but he's helped to change the discourse and light a friggin' fire. All the snippy "puleez" statements in the world aren't going to change the facts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
72. It's part of the pendulum cycle. History swings back and forth between the poles.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:05 AM
Jun 2019

After the liberal victories of the 60s and 70s we swung back to conservatism. And now we are swinging back to liberalism.

I view Trump as the last gasp of Reaganism. If we don't blow it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
73. Thank you! And I love that Buttigieg.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:12 AM
Jun 2019

If I wasn't pushing for a Warren/Harris ticket, Buttigieg would be in the mix. Bless him and his cool, down home demeanor. He's so rad, but packed in a bundle every grandparent would adore.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
74. Warren is my.second choice👍
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:24 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
75. Many of us just don't like him..
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:13 PM
Jun 2019

for damn good reasons.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
80. You haven't said anything to suggest you understood, or even cared about, what I just wrote.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:58 PM
Jun 2019

Are you just darting in for a cheap one-liner? I shouldn't even be honoring such an attitude with any more of my hard-won perspective.

We have a country to evolve. Please be respectful.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
89. I give respect to those who have earned
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:22 AM
Jun 2019

it.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
93. You sound like an autocrat, not a humane Democrat.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:12 AM
Jun 2019

Interesting.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
99. Ironic that you allege that of someone else...
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:00 PM
Jun 2019

Interesting, part II.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
112. Thank You, LanternWaste!
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 06:17 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

still_one

(91,937 posts)
113. +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 06:40 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,206 posts)
114. What a terrible thing to say
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 07:26 PM
Jun 2019

How dare you attack another DUer this way? Who are you to make such an ignorant claim? Cha has been an active and great DUer for some time.

You really should apologize for that personal attack.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
123. Mahalo, mcar!
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:34 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,206 posts)
128. This is OTT, Cha
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:01 PM
Jun 2019

Reasonable people can disagree, but this was a - dare I say - nasty attack.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
130. I agree.. I would
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:09 PM
Jun 2019

never accuse someone of that.. and neither would any other Democrat I've been posting with over the last almost 2 decades.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
126. Really? You have no idea about who you just attacked.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:49 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Me.

(35,454 posts)
144. Nina...Is That You?
Tue Jun 18, 2019, 10:29 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #80)

 

sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
120. Wow first you say
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:17 PM
Jun 2019
DemocracyMouse

80. You haven't said anything to suggest you understood, or even cared about, what I just wrote.
Are you just darting in for a cheap one-liner?


Calling Cha's response " just darting in for a cheap one-liner." This is uncalled for and disrespectful.

We have a country to evolve. Please be respectful.


Then you go on to ask for respect when you have been disrespectful.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
121. Ikr, she.. Mahalo.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:26 PM
Jun 2019

I appreciate that so much

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
125. You are welcome Cha.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:38 PM
Jun 2019

Pisses me off.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,206 posts)
129. OK for me but not for thee
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:02 PM
Jun 2019

apparently.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
132. Apparently, mcar.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:27 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,905 posts)
149. Your preferred candidate would be appalled at what you are saying
Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:58 PM
Jun 2019

I suspect you know that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
33. American hero? Seriously? Such hyperbole
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:13 PM
Jun 2019

There is nothing heroic about him

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
63. Exactly, Lunamagica!
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:54 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
100. There is no hyperbole grand or righteous enough for the Sacred Cow.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:01 PM
Jun 2019

So sayeth the congregation.

Amen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
151. Don't forget "a national treasure".
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:59 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NNadir

(33,368 posts)
81. I really have a hard time finding anything heroic in any of it,
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:39 PM
Jun 2019

Frankly, I'm ABB, anyone but Bernie in the primaries, although if the awful state of affairs where I was denied that took place, I would of course, be ABT.

Mr. Sanders views on everything, most notably issues in the basic science of climate change, are straight out of the 1930's.

The problem with that, with never having a new idea of any kind, is that we live in the 21st century.

I don't see a damned thing "heroic" about the guy.

When - as he should - he loses the nomination I expect it all to play out like 2016, whining and crying about how the Democrats are not good enough for him.

What exactly is so "heroic?"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
94. For one, he opened up the national discourse to the
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:19 AM
Jun 2019

...very real concentration of power in the hands of corporations and billionaires. It was so damn hush-hush for decades while Democrats began to acquiesce to such a pyramid. Now most of the Democrats freely speak of such things. Bernie achieved this by repeatedly addressing this power imbalance. I believe he deserves huge credit for making this current crop of clear-eyed and uncompromising candidates possible.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NNadir

(33,368 posts)
95. I would suggest you need to understand what...
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:38 AM
Jun 2019

...the word "heroism" means.

Taking potshots at the Democratic Party with no risk to one's self, with no realistic plan other than to criticize isn't heroism.

It's merely self aggrandizement, something Mr. Sanders is good at.

The discussion of the relationship between power and money has been a subject of discussion for centuries, and I note, has involved considerable tragedy, particularly when couched only in vague generalizations with no specifics.

I personally have no intellectual or moral usr for Sanders.

The best that can be said for him is that he's not Trump.

I say this by the way while regarding Senator Warren highly, mostly because unlike Sanders, she doesn't sit in a corner issuing platitudes from 1930's rhetoric. She lives and is aware that we're in the 21st century.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
122. Thank You, NNadir!
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:32 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
131. "The best that can be said for him is that he's not Trump", but they have similar "heroic"....
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:26 PM
Jun 2019

....military history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
101. You have evidence directly supporting your premise?
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:05 PM
Jun 2019

"For one, he opened up the national discourse to the very real concentration of power in the hands of corporations and billionaires..."

You have objective evidence directly supporting this premise? Or is it too, mere editorial? As our national discourse has included wealth disparity since the mid-sixties (The American Economic History Reader by John Malsberger), I can only surmise that as you weren't aware of it, you simply weren't listening to it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
124. No he didn't. It wasn't "his" doing, that discourse has been going on for decades....
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:38 PM
Jun 2019

....ever hear of the Clayton Antitrust Act? The Sherman Act? Oh, in case you didn't notice it a couple of years ago, he used to complain about "millionaires and billionaires", for some reason he dropped the "milionaires" part of it. Wonder why?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
136. Ganging up on relative newcomers? What do you all gain?
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:25 PM
Jun 2019

False pride? Gang security?

If someone outside this forum were to observe this discourse... say an ethnographer... they might very well say this isn't a particularly enlightened bunch.

It sucks to be ganged up on and shame on anyone who had participated. I'm sorry if I've overreacted to the bullying.

Please don't do this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
137. "Ganging up"? Care to address what I posted about the Clayton Act or Sherman Act? I'll wait.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:41 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,206 posts)
140. You attacked another DUer, some of us defended her
Tue Jun 18, 2019, 08:09 AM
Jun 2019

and now you are saying you've been ganged up on?

That's a convenient standard.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
145. I don't think that 's a fair take
Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:50 AM
Jun 2019

After I and others had made the effort to spell out a perspective, one of your "group" didn't even show the consideration of addressing the points, but just waved it all off in a manner suggesting someone who was "in the group" and "in power" and therefore not requiring a considered response. It had an autocratic quality. Maybe your friend isn't really like that, but I was hurt by the gesture. It was along the lines of: "just wave away that which I disagree with or don't understand."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mcar

(42,206 posts)
147. You called another DUer an autocrat and inhumane because your feelings were hurt?
Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:41 PM
Jun 2019
93. You sound like an autocrat, not a humane Democrat.

Interesting.


Those are your words. You seem to think your hurt feelings excuse this pretty horrible attack. I disagree completely.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,905 posts)
148. lolz calling Harris and Warren "young," like they are whippersnappers
Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:55 PM
Jun 2019

wth

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
127. Beyond thin, it's approaching threadbare.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:50 PM
Jun 2019

Last edited Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:23 PM - Edit history (1)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
2. It seems to be trending in that direction.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:06 PM
Jun 2019

And, I'd agree with Nate. If he loses supporters to Warren, I don't see them coming back. It's taken a while for her to take off, but she seems to have momentum now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

monmouth4

(9,663 posts)
5. Her brilliance is difficult to hide. She was always one of my favs but she is definitely moving up.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:41 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
12. She's brilliant and she doesn't speak in slogans or platitudes. n/t
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:05 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
18. Bernie changed the national narrative precisely BECAUSE he repeated his concerns
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:27 PM
Jun 2019

I love that ol' lefty codger from Brooklyn. Bless the man and give him a break. No one else has spoken truth to power like him since the 60s. He made folks like Warren, AOC, Buttigieg and Harris possible. Before Bernie such progressive voices, (who were ACTUALLY traditional FDR Democrats) were treated as "extremists" by clueless media people with no knowledge of history, economics or how high concentrations of money since Reagan has poisoned our democracy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
25. If he had conceded once Hillary's win was inevitable, when all the R's were campaigning for Trump,
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:54 PM
Jun 2019

and begun to campaign for Hillary then, he might have helped her get the additional 80K votes she needed to win, despite Russian interference, Comey's announcement, etc.

So I don't love that ol lefty codger from Brooklyn.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
29. I really don't want to chew old gum, but he had pretty good reasons.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:02 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
35. Pretty good reasons for not conceding when he knew he could not win, which
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:19 PM
Jun 2019

only helped trump to win? Pretty good reasons to help the nation fall into this nightmare we're living?

NOTHING justifies it

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
68. ".. pretty good reasons.."
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:54 AM
Jun 2019

Help!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
90. I know, Cha! I guess to some, Sanders comes before the nation!
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:22 AM
Jun 2019

Last edited Mon Jun 17, 2019, 03:28 AM - Edit history (1)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
91. Unreal.. very disrespectful of our
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:24 AM
Jun 2019

Democracy and Planet.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
49. What in the heck do you mean by that?
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:57 PM
Jun 2019

You really need to explain that statement. A Democratic Party primary participant had reasons for not helping the party nominee win? How in the hell so?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,206 posts)
116. Oh? What reasons, pray tell.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 07:31 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
134. Okay. He has repeated his concerns.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:51 PM
Jun 2019

What legislation has he passed in the Senate to accomplish his concerns after 16 years?

TIA.

***On edit 16 years in the House 13 years in the Senate.***

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Boomer

(4,159 posts)
39. I supported Bernie Sanders in the last primary....
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:34 PM
Jun 2019

but only because Elizabeth Warren wasn't running. And if Hillary Clinton had chosen Warren for her VP, I suspect she would have won the presidential election. Warren shored up the ticket in the exact areas that Clinton was weak. There was a palpable energy when the two of them shared the stage and I was so disappointed that Clinton didn't recognize that as a tremendous asset to her campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
41. There was a lot of support for a Warren run here in 2016.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:38 PM
Jun 2019

I've been kind of surprised that it's taken a while for her to gain traction, both here and in the real world, but she finally seems to be gaining some momentum. It's still very early, of course, and momentum will be important in the coming months.

I agree that the two of them seemed to work quite well together. Better than a lot of people expected.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
82. The gene test hurt her and made her seem weak.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:45 PM
Jun 2019

So a lot of people wrote her off, including me. But she managed to change the conversation. Now the whole thing just looks petty compared to her substantive proposals.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
87. It always looked petty.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:55 PM
Jun 2019

The overblown, hyperactive reaction to it by the media and others was the weak part. Much ado about nothing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
3. Warren isn't my top choice
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:40 PM
Jun 2019

But if somehow Sanders dropped out, endorsed her, and she got the nomination, I would be happy with that outcome.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
4. I predict once the debates begin, there will be a mass defection from Bernie to Warren
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:41 PM
Jun 2019

Many of Bernie's ideas have been adopted by Warren and other progressives- and Has a plan, including the math, on how to implement each of those policies- as voters become aware that Warren had done her homework, she will pick up even more support.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
8. No one
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:55 PM
Jun 2019

Adopted Bernie’s plan. Those have bee Democratic principles ever since I was old enough to vote.

The only thing I am against is Bernie’s Socialist schtick. As a moderate Democrat I am against Socialism just like I am against the extreme right!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
17. Perhaps you are neglecting to learn about democratic socialism.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:26 PM
Jun 2019

It doesn't mean what you think it means. Canada is a constitutional monarchy (the Queen is only a figurehead, but it keeps our Prime Minister from thinking he's King). Canada by some definitions is a social democratic country. What it means is that we care about and for each other, it does not mean that our government runs everything.

Those of you who reject democratic socialist policies (as they affect the average working American, and those who are unable to work) seem NOT to care very much about each other. Jack Beatty, who is a guest every Friday morning on NPR's On Point, called the US prior to the 12016 election as fast returning to the Gilded Age. He was so right. Every day there is less and less opportunity for ordinary folk to move up in the world. The US is more and more an oppressive society, rather than the progressive society it should rightfully be.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
32. "It doesn't mean what you think it means."
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:03 PM
Jun 2019

No one can agree on what it means. To many at the DSA, it means overthrowing capitalism and replacing it with true socialism. To Sanders, it means something completely different.

"Canada by some definitions is a social democratic country."

Social democracy and democratic socialism aren't interchangeable terms.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
43. No. they are not interchangeable.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 07:00 PM
Jun 2019

The problem stems from the widespread belief that socialism equals communism, and every time I hear pundits talk about it, they only ever use the word "socialism". they perpetuate the long-touted trope that socialism means that your rights or freedoms will be taken away from you.

If the majority of Americans would understand that many of the the "freedoms" you so admire and cherish are overshadowed by the fears that you live with (or might end up living with) -- including bankruptcy due to hellishly high medical bills, or the ability to walk down the street without packing a gun, or sending your kids off to school fearing for their very lives, or driving over a bridge wondering if it might collapse -- then you might just start considering some policies that benefit both you and your fellow Americans, than just yourselves.

There's a reason why Canada has come first two years in a row for Quality of Life.

I live just across the river from New York state. Last time I crossed the river was just over two years ago. I feel safe here walking in my neighbourhood any time of night and day, and knowing that Canadian border security confiscates all weapons before my New York or Ohio (or any other state) neighbours are allowed into my country. During the summer, about every 10th car in my town has American license plates, BTW.

That's freedom. And I know that most DUers are in favour of stricter gun laws -- so apologies if I've offended anyone here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
69. Okay, but Canada isn't socialist or communist.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:55 AM
Jun 2019

It's social democracy or our new favorite term, democratic capitalism. We Americans love our capitalism and that won't change. We just need to make it friendlier.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
23. Not true - universal healthcare and a living wage were rejected by Dem mainstream for decades
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:45 PM
Jun 2019

Just to name two of Bernie's ideas that have been accepted by an increasing number of Dems since 2016.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
38. You must have missed the mid 1990s.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:32 PM
Jun 2019

Here's a refresher:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

The assertions that universal healthcare is a relatively recent concept introduced by Sanders or that it's only acceptable to Democrats now because of Sanders are laughable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Takket

(21,421 posts)
60. Did you read the article you linked?
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:00 AM
Jun 2019

That effort went down in flames. Only now is anyone ever daring to discuss it again 20+ years later.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
31. They're not "progressives" - they're rational, clear-eyed Democrats
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:03 PM
Jun 2019

with TRADITIONAL FDR values and economic insight.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Boomer

(4,159 posts)
40. Excuse me?
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:36 PM
Jun 2019

Warren has been her own person, with her own priorities and plans, for decades. She didn't need to "adopt" Bernie's ideas.

I supported Bernie in the last primary because he was the candidate closest to Warren who was actually running. This time around, I get my first choice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LenaBaby61

(6,965 posts)
42. "I predict once the debates begin, there will be a mass defection from Bernie to Warren."
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:53 PM
Jun 2019

Agree 👆🏻.

I live in the greater Los Angeles Area and I know of many used to be Bernie supporters, and out of those supporters I know of, I know about 75 intimately and those 75 or so Bernie supporters weren't the fly by night Bernie supporters--these folks were older like me (50's into their 60's and a bit older), had income coming in so they could send contributions as many had done for YEARS. But even they've pretty much moved on from Bernie. They still like/love him and of course would support a Bernie/whomever ticket. But, as one guy told me recently "Bernie's mojo is gone" and he's moved on to supporting a Warren/Pete or Warren/Harris Ticket if that were to materalize.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
55. Elizabeth Warren wants to pay for her plans
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:51 AM
Jun 2019

...with a new wealth tax. Unfortunately, the current Supreme Court would probably rule that tax is unconstitutional.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
59. On what grounds would SCOTUS rule Warren's tax unconstitutional ? Nt
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:22 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
76. The text of Constitution
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:43 PM
Jun 2019

“no capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.”

https://jonathanturley.org/2019/02/20/is-the-warren-tax-unconstitutional/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
77. Turley makes a weak case for unconstitutionality, and concedes any SCOTUS case would be "close"
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:30 PM
Jun 2019

Nevertheless, I'm sure there are workarounds, say raising the capital gains rate on annual gains above, say, $1million to a percentage equal to the amount of Warren's 2% on every dollar above $50 million is assets

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
78. Yes. If Elizabeth Warren had proposed
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:32 PM
Jun 2019

...your capital gains tax then I wouldn’t raise concerns about what the current Supreme Court would do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
84. Here's a legal opinion that says it's Constitutional
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:02 PM
Jun 2019

Among other things, it points out that the inheritance tax is a wealth tax.

https://www.warren.senate.gov/download/constitutionality-letters

This court of course may decide to overturn precedent, but at least she does her homework.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
138. I'm not taking a position on whether it's constitutional in the abstract.
Tue Jun 18, 2019, 03:10 AM
Jun 2019

The issue is whether Justices appointed by George W. Bush and Donald Trump would say it's constitutional.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NYMinute

(3,256 posts)
6. Senator Warren is a far better candidate.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:47 PM
Jun 2019

She has real gravitas being the President of Harvard Law School.

She is articulate and knows policy inside out. She will never flunk an interview like Bernie Sanders did with NYDN.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
15. She held a Leo Gottleib professorship at Harvard law, after a long and illustrious career
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:13 PM
Jun 2019

at several top law schools. (Though she wasn't President of Harvard.)

Warren began her academic career as a lecturer at Rutgers University, Newark School of Law (1977–78). She then moved to the University of Houston Law Center (1978–83), where she became an associate dean in 1980 and obtained tenure in 1981. She taught at the University of Texas School of Law as visiting associate professor in 1981, and returned as a full professor two years later (staying from 1983 to 1987). She was also a visiting professor at the University of Michigan in 1985 and a research associate at the Population Research Center of the University of Texas at Austin in 1983–87.[44] During this period Warren also taught Sunday school.[12][45]

Warren's earliest academic work was heavily influenced by the law and economics movement, which aimed to apply neoclassical economic theory to the study of law with an emphasis on economic efficiency. One of her articles, published in 1980 in the Notre Dame Law Review, argued that public utilities were over-regulated and that automatic utility rate increases should be instituted.[46] But Warren soon became a proponent of on-the-ground research into how people respond to laws. Her work analyzing court records and interviewing judges, lawyers, and debtors, established her as a rising star in the field of bankruptcy law.[47] According to Warren and economists who follow her work, one of her key insights was that rising bankruptcy rates were caused not by profligate consumer spending but by middle-class families' attempts to buy homes in good school districts.[48] Warren worked in this field alongside colleagues Teresa A. Sullivan and Jay Westbrook, and the trio published their research in the book As We Forgive Our Debtors in 1989. Warren later recalled that she had begun her research believing that most people filing for bankruptcy were either working the system or had been irresponsible in incurring debts, but that she came to the conclusion that such abuse was in fact rare and that the legal framework for bankruptcy was poorly designed, describing the way the research challenged her fundamental beliefs as "worse than disillusionment" and "like being shocked at a deep-down level".[46]

Warren joined the University of Pennsylvania Law School as a full professor in 1987 and obtained an endowed chair in 1990, becoming the William A. Schnader Professor of Commercial Law. In 1992 she taught for a year at Harvard Law School as Robert Braucher Visiting Professor of Commercial Law. In 1995 Warren left Penn to become Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard Law School.[44] As of 2011 she was Harvard's only tenured law professor who had attended law school at an American public university.[47] Warren was a highly influential law professor. Although she published in many fields, her expertise was in bankruptcy and commercial law. In that field, only Bob Scott of Columbia and Alan Schwartz of Yale were cited more often than Warren.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Academic
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
7. Nah. Bernie's basically MLK now...
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 04:50 PM
Jun 2019

No way can Warren compete with MLK 2.0


Sid

If I were to vote in a presidential
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NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
10. OMG! You're killing me!
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:03 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Cha

(295,899 posts)
13. Yeah, No.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:08 PM
Jun 2019

"MLK2.0"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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tishaLA

(14,176 posts)
11. IMO the junior senator from VT should be thrilled
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:04 PM
Jun 2019

That an excellent, hard-working candidate like Sen Warren, who knows issues so well that she doesn't have to rely on bumper sticker slogans, has risen in the polls so far, so fast

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
36. He should drop out and endorse her
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:20 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
56. Slogans of Elizabeth Warren
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:54 AM
Jun 2019

“I’ve got a plan for that.”
“Race matters.”
“Big structural change.”
“I’m running for president because that’s what girls do.”
“Dream big, fight hard, and win.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

tishaLA

(14,176 posts)
64. I'm sorry to see that you'd diminish the senior senator from MA
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:03 AM
Jun 2019

By suggesting that she relies on slogans rather than solutions. I'm sure most Democrats agree that she has a deep, rich understanding of issues and has a comprehensive plan to confront many of our challenges

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
67. That's ridiculous and
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:52 AM
Jun 2019

you know it.

EW is ahead of BS in Wisconsin now because she actually does have plans.. and you would know that if you paid attention.


If I were to vote in a presidential
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marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
71. She has both slogans and policies. A rare wonk who can speak in sound bites.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:59 AM
Jun 2019

My favorite is, “I’m running for president because that’s what girls do.”

I hope my little girl gets that message.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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mcar

(42,206 posts)
117. I like those slogans
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 07:35 PM
Jun 2019

But I see what you attempted to do. What are Bernie's slogans?

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The Liberal Lion

(1,414 posts)
14. I personally wouldn't be opposed to a Warren/Sanders ticket.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:12 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided
 

ecstatic

(32,566 posts)
86. I would really hate that. I think EW is smarter than that.
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:51 PM
Jun 2019

Harris, Buttigieg, Booker, Beto... there are a lot of great options. Why would she pick an 80 year old VP?

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Cha

(295,899 posts)
19. I seriously doubt that EW would choose BS for
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:29 PM
Jun 2019

her VP if she gets the nom.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
96. No way in hell, lol.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:54 AM
Jun 2019

Why would she want all that negative energy in her campaign? Not to mention she would have nothing to do with this democratic socialist nonsense.

“I am not a Democratic Socialist.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
26. Go Elizabeth Warren! At least "you have a plan for that."
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:58 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Martin Eden

(12,801 posts)
37. How many delegates do they each have so far?
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 06:28 PM
Jun 2019

And who, among all the candidates, has garnered the most from the primaries so far?

If I were to vote in a presidential
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aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
45. Poor Nate. He thinks winning is Bernie's only goal.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 07:46 PM
Jun 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
51. That's an interesting assertion.
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:08 PM
Jun 2019

It's also not even remotely related to the tweet.

That aside, if Sanders didn't want to win, he wouldn't have run. All candidates have multiple goals, but for the major ones, winning is a prerequisite to achieving them.

The same goes for Sanders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
57. Exactly BS wants to win.. otherwise why
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:59 AM
Jun 2019

would he have hired, Nina Turner, David Sirota, and Brianha Joy Gray, former Jill Stein voters and advocators.. as top staff?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Skid Rogue

(711 posts)
46. Go Warren!!!!
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 07:55 PM
Jun 2019

If she wins, I will proudly cast my vote for her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
66. This Biden supporter agrees!
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:37 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
50. Sirota just blocked Nate on Twitter
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:01 PM
Jun 2019

This is not a good sign for the sanders campaign


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Cha

(295,899 posts)
118. Wow.. Thanks, Goth!
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 07:57 PM
Jun 2019


Now why would Sirota do that?!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
135. The fact that Sirota blocked Nate is interesting
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:50 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aeromanKC

(3,307 posts)
52. If Bernie really cared about his issues
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:28 PM
Jun 2019

he would drop out of the race (He's not going to win. He's just not) and throw his support to Warren. (Warren could win. Could)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
53. Too late for concern
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:56 PM
Jun 2019

she's overtaking him. Same issues, pretty much the same positions, and she doesn't have his baggage.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Irishxs

(622 posts)
54. Warren could handle trump, I believe
Sat Jun 15, 2019, 11:23 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Bhkylib

(26 posts)
58. You can't ever say Warren is not a true blood Democrat to her core
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:18 AM
Jun 2019

I love some of her policies. I'm not yet sold on her electability though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
65. EW is 1% ahead of BS in Wisconsin right now..
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:48 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ecstatic

(32,566 posts)
85. Bernie and trump's supporters overlap as well. The trump supporting berners would never vote
Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:45 PM
Jun 2019

for a woman for president.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
105. Where are these mythical
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:53 PM
Jun 2019

rump supporting burners?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SouthernProgressive

(1,810 posts)
97. Warren is for things.
Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:45 PM
Jun 2019

The small amount of Sanders supporters who are left are simply against things. They will not shift to someone who actually wants to move forward. Success is their nemesis. There is just not that much left of Sanders base for others to eat into. The true believers are sold on the person and the "revolution." Both mere images.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
139. Your observations are correct. Well said!
Tue Jun 18, 2019, 06:54 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
150. Sanders wants Democrats to think that Warren's gains are a function of moderates. They aren't
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:47 PM
Jun 2019

I am amused that sanders is so upset but sanders claim that moderate Democrats are the reason for Warren's rise is false. sanders is losing liberal members of the party https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/19/sanders-wants-democrats-think-that-warrens-gains-are-function-moderates-they-arent/?utm_term=.d25c4a40d7a0

Shortly before that poll came out, Sanders’s campaign lifted up a report from Politico that seemed as though it might help explain Warren’s improved position: She was gaining support from what Sanders called “the corporate wing” of the Democratic Party. Which is to say the party’s more moderate, less progressive arm, the segment of the party that, in Sanders’s framing, will pull out all the stops to curtail his economic revolution.....

It doesn’t take much reading between the lines here to understand Sanders’s argument: Centrists are circling around Warren (per Politico) because they are afraid of legitimate progressive positions like his own.

Setting aside the question of how robustly Sanders’s big-ticket policies differ from Warren’s, there’s another, bigger problem with that argument: It’s not what polls show is happening.

?
And so it does. In Monmouth’s polls over the past few months, Warren’s surge has been a function of voters who identify as liberals. In April, she earned 8 percent of the vote among those who identify as liberal. In the new poll, she moved into a tie with former vice president Joe Biden.

Biden’s in the overall lead in national primary polling because he fares much better than Warren, Sanders or anyone else among more moderate Democrats. In the most recent poll, Biden gets 40 percent of the moderate vote to Sanders’s 10 percent and Warren’s 6.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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