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Undecided 44%
Elizabeth Warren22%
Joe Biden14%
Bernie Sanders8%
Pete Buttigieg6%

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 07:46 PM

 

Elizabeth Warren, saviour of capitalism

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/united-states/2019/06/22/elizabeth-warren-saviour-of-capitalism

The Economist

"SNIP.....

Behind paywall

.....SNIP"
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

22 replies, 1355 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Elizabeth Warren, saviour of capitalism (Original post)
applegrove Jun 2019 OP
George II Jun 2019 #1
applegrove Jun 2019 #2
Recursion Jun 2019 #19
at140 Jun 2019 #3
question everything Jun 2019 #8
YOHABLO Jun 2019 #4
applegrove Jun 2019 #5
marylandblue Jun 2019 #16
applegrove Jun 2019 #17
Celerity Jun 2019 #7
YOHABLO Jun 2019 #11
Celerity Jun 2019 #13
applegrove Jun 2019 #12
Celerity Jun 2019 #14
Nitram Jun 2019 #6
elleng Jun 2019 #9
myohmy2 Jun 2019 #10
Celerity Jun 2019 #15
marylandblue Jun 2019 #21
Recursion Jun 2019 #18
Eric J in MN Jun 2019 #20
joshcryer Jun 2019 #22

Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 07:57 PM

1. Oh the irony!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to George II (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:02 PM

2. Her story may well be very, very compelling to unhappy former union people who voted Trump.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 01:34 AM

19. Chris Ladd said something interesting last year

 

In 1988, Rick Perry and Elizabeth Warren were both in Texas: Perry was stumping for Al Gore, and Warren was volunteering for Bob Dole. Neither have particularly changed their views in the intervening 30 years; when you understand that fact you will understand the party realignment that has happened in the interim.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Andrew Yang

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:40 PM

3. The country needs Elizabeth Warren

 

At this critical stage. The national debt is rocketing higher while Wall Street & big banks are getting bigger. Only Elizabeth has the in depth knowledge of banking issues and the courage to reform.the system. Without her leadership we are heading straight towards financial collapse. The rubber band can only be stretched so far.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to at140 (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:22 PM

8. According to Bill Maher from yesterday, the country is a one syllable while Warren is a three

 

syllables
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:30 PM

4. Love to read the rest of the article, but it's that paywall 'thingy' that gripes me.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:35 PM

5. I saw ot somewhere and could read the whole thing. But i forgot where it was.

 

I had the title so all i got when i googled it was the economist site. And the paywall. It basically goes into Warren's evolution to where she is and how if she were to go slightly republican on say immigration reform, she may hook a whole lot of republicans and win the election in 2020. It paints her like she is progressive with smart ideas on how to reform capitalism but comes by it of two spirits.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to applegrove (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 12:48 AM

16. I think any Democrat could win by going a bit to the right on immigration.

 

It's practically Democratic heresy to say we don't welcome immigrants, but a lot of people, in fact, don't welcome illegal immigrants. For many it isn't about racism, but about competition for low skilled jobs. We have a huge underground economy where illegal immigrants work for low wages in poor conditions. A few simple fixes would greatly reduce the underground economy and provide more opportunities for low skill workers.

But we fail to acknowledge the economic issue and so we paint everyone who wants stricter curbs on immigration as racists and drive them straight into the arms of Trump.

Flame away if you must, but the issue is there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 01:17 AM

17. Democrats have said they are willing to talk about an immigration policy like canada's.

 

In canada we don't get many illegal immigrants. Well not until Trump. And when we did get some from mexico we just put visa requirements on them for a few years. We are surrounded by 3 oceans. We take if refugees. We take in lots of people. We need immigrants desperately but they are not so much illegal or as low skilled. In my experience the people who nursed my mom and currently do my dad are way over qualified. They just didn't have money for school back home. And once they arrive they get streamed into schooling in the areas that need workers. One of my friends should be a social worker at the police station. The latest guy who is looking after my dad should be a hotel manager. It is not funny. Some upgrade to a full nursing degree. One man from Rawanda who was a nurse is now Director of care for the nursing home. Good on him. Their children do well. A point system is pretty unfair to the world outside. But many nations have it. I know one woman who is going to get her full nursing degree in canada and then go back home to Angola and open a clinic. I don't think the us can survive without lots of immigrants. Just like canada their future depends on them. It would be full on dystopian nightmare without large numbers of immigrants. I don't like the idea of temporary workers either. That is too aparthidy to me but canada does it.

Quite frankly i am more worried about management practices in business in canada. That is something someone like Elizabeth Warren could tackle. The 18th century management model has got to go. I've worked for many bosses and nastyness and not valueing the whole person and clipping employees wings has got to stop. And i hear things from others. I've worked for government and non profits and some businesses who are the most lovely people. But that thing where you grind your employees into the ground to squeeze every cent of productivity out of them so management gets big bonuses is a crime.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:21 PM

7. here

 

There is a revealing tradition of apostasy in American politics. Ronald Reagan’s disingenuous claim never to have left the Democratic Party (“It left me”) helped him woo millions of blue-collar Democrats. Hillary Clinton’s decision to downplay her early Republicanism, by contrast, signalled her lack of ambition to win votes from the other side. That Donald Trump switched camps at least five times before entering the Republican primary suggested his disloyalty to any party. Elizabeth Warren’s gravitation from right to left, and the use she is making of it in her increasingly fancied presidential campaign, is another telling case. Unlike Mrs Clinton, she is leaning into her Republican past. Her stump speech, which Lexington heard in a sun-dappled New Hampshire garden last week, opens with a description of her conservative upbringing in Oklahoma: her three brothers in uniform, her frugal parents. It testifies to her experience, rare in a former Harvard law professor, of working-class concerns and the heartland, even if she escaped both long ago. Yet she remained a registered Republican into her late 40s.

Many Democrats would find that embarrassing. Yet Ms Warren, who entered politics over a decade later, after making a name for herself as a critic of Wall Street after the financial crisis, has no need to prove her left-wing credentials. She has used her conversion story to help distinguish herself from Bernie Sanders, her rival on the left, and to try to broaden her appeal. She stuck with the Republicans, she has said, because she believed their claim to be the best market managers. Unlike the socialist from Vermont, she says she is a “capitalist to my bones”. She left the right after researching surging individual bankruptcies, which turned out to be caused not by fecklessness, but ill health and other misfortunes. Why were so many hardworking people like her parents living so precariously? she asked. And why were companies, their soaring profits suggested, more protected? Like Mr Sanders, she considers the economy to be not merely skewed, but rigged in the corporate interest. Stagnant wages, rising economic insecurity, outsourced jobs are a product of “who government works for”, she said in New Hampshire. But where Mr Sanders promises a revolution, her proposals are more measured, detailed and various. Indeed Ms Warren, who in a couple of recent polls was ahead of Mr Sanders, in second place behind Joe Biden, has unveiled more policies than her main rivals put together.

Her signature proposal is a wealth tax of two cents on the dollar on assets over $50m. She optimistically claims this would raise $2.75trn in a decade, a windfall she would splurge on progressive priorities including universal free childcare, free public college fees and writing off college debt. That is Sanders-esque, with a tonal difference. Unlike Mr Sanders, whose recent entry into the “millionaire class” seems not to have lessened his dislike of rich people, Ms Warren claims not to begrudge them their success. She just wants them to chip in more (“Two cents—just two cents!” is one of her slogans) to help expand opportunity (which is another). Believe that or not, her other main proposals are regulatory fixes that are far-reaching and radical but mostly within the Democratic mainstream. Channelling the spirit of her hero Theodore Roosevelt, she vows to curb lobbying, campaign-finance extravagance, carbon emissions and much else. She has hedged her support for Mr Sanders’s promise of Medicare for all.

Setting aside the merits of her proposals, her focus on policy is clever politics, and unusual. Mrs Clinton’s loss to a candidate with no serious policies, though she had reams of them, has deterred most Democratic candidates from issuing detailed proposals. Mr Biden, the front-runner, has two policies, including a cut-and-paste climate plan. Ms Warren apprehends that Mrs Clinton failed not because she had too many policies, but because she had no theme to make sense of them. Her commitment to saving capitalism from the capitalists is an answer to that. Her wonkishness also helps her deal with specific weaknesses. It has revised her former image as a one-trick pony, banging on about Wall Street. It has moderated her reputation as a left-winger. It has made Mr Sanders look lightweight by comparison. It has also helped neutralise an impression, exacerbated by sexism no doubt, that she is rather hectoring. “She reminds me of my sister-in-law,” said one of her listeners in New Hampshire guiltily. “But she knows what she’s talking about.” Mrs Clinton’s supporters were often unwilling to acknowledge her weaknesses as a campaigner. If Ms Warren’s are more willing, it is because she also has strengths. She may well supplant Mr Sanders as the main threat to Mr Biden from the left. Whether she could woo enough moderate voters to mount a serious challenge is harder to predict. It is certainly possible. Yet such voters are mainly concerned with beating Mr Trump, and may consider Ms Warren too left-wing for that, which would be reasonable. Or they might consider her too like Mrs Clinton, as a woman in her 60s, which would not be.

The sin of apostasy

That suggests Ms Warren’s ideas may get less attention than they deserve on the left. Meanwhile they are being studied by reform-minded Republicans, grappling with the rejection of conservative verities that Mr Trump represents. Tucker Carlson of Fox News described Ms Warren’s industrial policy as “like Donald Trump at his best”. Senator Marco Rubio wrote a column applauding its aims, while concluding that a “radical progressive movement” would not fulfil them. This illustrates a paradoxical feature of the political divide: a combination of intellectual flux and partisan rigidity. Despite her past Republicanism, Ms Warren could not win votes on the right without repudiating her party in some way; by opposing mass immigration, for example. Yet her critique of American capitalism is quietly inspiring conservative thinkers. It is an odd time, when ideas cross parties more easily than people.◼
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Celerity (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:49 PM

11. Thank you so very much!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:15 PM

13. yw

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Celerity (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:06 PM

12. Thanks.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to applegrove (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:15 PM

14. yw

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:39 PM

6. Warren knows capitalism inside and out. She understands that capitalism must be regulated to

 

protect us from its more extreme tendencies. She understands that people need to be protected from rapacious corporations. She understands that people need jobs, and business provide them. We need balance, not destruction.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:35 PM

9. 'The senator from Massachusetts's strong primary campaign suggests that ideas still matter.'

 

'That Donald Trump switched camps at least five times before entering the Republican primary suggested his disloyalty to any party. Elizabeth Warren’s gravitation from right to left, and the use she is making of it in her increasingly fancied presidential campaign, is another telling case.

Unlike Mrs Clinton, she is leaning into her Republican past. Her stump speech, which Lexington heard in a sun-dappled New Hampshire garden last week, opens with a description of her conservative upbringing in Oklahoma: her three brothers in uniform, her frugal parents. It testifies to her experience, rare in a former Harvard law professor, of working-class concerns and the heartland, even if she escaped both long ago. Yet she remained a registered Republican into her late 40s.'>>>
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:42 PM

10. "Yet she remained a registered Republican into her late 40s."

 






...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:32 PM

15. that's very misleading, she was only a registered Repug for around 5 years and the only Rethug POTUS

 

she voted for was Ford.

1972 McGovern (she hated Nixon)
1976 Ford
1980 Carter (she did not like Reagan)
1984 Mondale
1988 Dukakis
1992 Bill Clinton
1996 (the last year she was a registered rethug) Bill Clinton
2000 Gore
2004 Kerry
2008 Obama
2012 Obama
2016 Jill Stein (I am joking!) Hillary

She registered Repub in PA in 1991 because she like Arlen Specter (ironic as he too changed to Democratic)


I detail it here https://www.democraticunderground.com/128791270#post36
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Celerity (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 08:43 AM

21. Sounds like she was a Rockefeller Republican.

 

No more a modern R than dixiecrat could be a modern D.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 01:32 AM

18. That "complaint" was made against FDR by the progressives of his day too

 

Check out some of the old Pete Seeger anti-FDR songs. Hoo-boy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Andrew Yang

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 03:36 AM

20. 'Unlike Mrs Clinton, she is leaning into her Republican past'

 

No, she isn’t. Elizabeth Warren doesn’t mention that she was a Republican until 1996 unless asked about it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:05 AM

22. Warren was quite literally forged by the Clintons.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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