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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:37 PM

 

I like Beto but this is a bad idea




I have supported many of his plans with climate change, healthcare and immigration but this is a bad take. The US government increased military spending to $700bn. Our military build up keeps getting bigger while our Veterans are struggling. Coincidence? The government are misusing the military budget. That is where we should look to as the means to look after the Vets rather than spend it on war and never ending build up. A tax like this only hurts the poorer of society.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply I like Beto but this is a bad idea (Original post)
Otto Lidenbrock Jun 2019 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #1
JI7 Jun 2019 #2
Otto Lidenbrock Jun 2019 #3
JI7 Jun 2019 #4
thesquanderer Jun 2019 #5
customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #6
snowybirdie Jun 2019 #7
Indygram Jun 2019 #8
Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #9
msongs Jun 2019 #10
Indygram Jun 2019 #23
essadaw Jun 2019 #11
George II Jun 2019 #12
essadaw Jun 2019 #13
Politicub Jun 2019 #15
Politicub Jun 2019 #14
Autumn Jun 2019 #16
Indygram Jun 2019 #24
Autumn Jun 2019 #27
treestar Jun 2019 #17
Trenzalore Jun 2019 #18
marylandblue Jun 2019 #19
essadaw Jun 2019 #20
Karadeniz Jun 2019 #21
UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #22
essadaw Jun 2019 #25
Autumn Jun 2019 #30
LisaM Jun 2019 #26
essadaw Jun 2019 #29
LisaM Jun 2019 #32
Autumn Jun 2019 #31
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #28
SHRED Jun 2019 #33

Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:44 PM

1. It will never get through Congress, but the strategy

 

is to make wars more unpopular with the general public by making people have to pay for them more directly. There are better ways of doing this, I think.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:48 PM

2. it's a way to make people reluctant to support war

 

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:57 PM

3. After the longest war in our history

 

With the loss of life in combat, with a Vet commiting suicide every 20 days, with the wounded and the mentally damaged...a tax to guilt people into not supporting war is not needed. Most of people are against war and the talking heads who are for it are the same ones who got us into Iraq and Afghanistan all those years before.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:58 PM

4. people would be more likely to do something about it

 

with the tax
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:01 PM

5. Interesting way to make armchair hawks who have no family in the military...

 

...think twice about rushing to war, if they see it as actually costing them something.

As for hurting the poor, from the link, "Households making less than $30,000 per year would pay $25".
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:18 PM

6. A further way to divide us up

 

I thought that's what Trump was good at.
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:19 PM

7. What about

 

those of us who had military members who served honorably and now are out? Do seniors have any exemption? Are there income restrictions? Too complicated and our in the sky Beto.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:24 PM

8. Read the actual plan before making assumptions

 

https://betoorourke.com/veterans/

It's based on income, starting at $25 a year up to $1000 a year to go into a fund to pay to help those veterans when they are out of the military.

Service members and veteran households would be exempt.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:25 PM

9. How about we have a peace tax that

 

funds comprehensive universal healthcare for everyone?

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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:39 PM

10. we already spend too much on the welfare military. nt

 

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Response to msongs (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 07:50 PM

23. This would be ONLY for caring for Veterans after they risk their lives to defend and protect us

 

Right now some wait YEARS for services. This small "war tax" would be ONLY for NEW wars authorized by Congress and it would be based on income. Anyone under $30,000 income would pay just $25 a year. Over $200,000 it would be $1000 a year. And only for households without active duty military or veterans. Anyone unwilling to contribute that little to help prevent some of the 20+ suicides by Veterans every day in this country due to lack of access to PTSD treatment can't claim to support military members. I'll happily pay this tax if it saves even one life.

This would also be a huge deterrent for needless wars.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:43 PM

11. The tax is only for new wars and it is progressive, starting at $25

 

It only goes to $1000 for households over $200,000 without a veteran or service member. This may make people think harder about starting a war if it impacts them.

If the situation is dire enough to start a new war, then the people should be willing to provide for veterans when they come back.

If the situation is not important enough to people to be worth $25-$1000 (depending on income), then it probably isn't serious enough to start a new war.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:45 PM

12. Good idea in theory, bad idea as proposed:

 

Households making less than $30,000 per year would pay $25
Households making less than $40,000 would pay $57
Households making less than $50,000 would pay $98
Households making less than $75,000 would pay $164
Households making less than $100,000 would pay $270
Households making less than $200,000 would pay $485
Households making more than $200,000 would pay $1,000.

The top three on this list (lowest income) should not be taxed a single penny, maybe even the top four.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:47 PM

13. Also, this is only a small part of a very large comprehensive veteran's plan

 

But of course even the mere mention of the word tax makes the media go into a frenzy. Please read the entire plan on Beto's website--it is extremely detailed and comprehensive.
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Response to essadaw (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:07 PM

15. It's not like anyone is making up the term "war tax"

 

It's in the proposal. That's what Beto is calling it.

Here's the text from the war tax section for anyone who is interested:


Deposit proceeds from a “War Tax” into new VHCTFs.

Under Beto’s plan, every new VHCTF would be paired with enactment of new war tax. This new tax would serve as a reminder of the incredible sacrifice made by those who serve and their families.

This modest tax would be implemented on a progressive basis, with taxpayers who make over $200,000 per year (adjusted gross income) paying $1,000 in a new tax for each war.

The tax would be levied on households without current members of the Armed Forces or veterans of the Armed Forces.
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:01 PM

14. Well, that's interesting. I've never seen a proposal like that.

 

I'm with you, OP. We already budget enough for defense.

I think we could make fewer missiles and send the savings the VA's way.

Beto seems to be proposing something similar -- diverting dollars that are paying for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars to veterans' healthcare and penalizing Americans for unauthorized wars. It just doesn't sound that way at first blush. It sounds like it's going to be a tax on top of what we spend on the military today.

It's still pretty confusing to me. And, I hate the idea of something called a war tax in principal. He could have thought of a better positioning for it at least. It makes me feel like we're budgeting for future wars... not healthcare.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:11 PM

16. Fuck that. Lets tax the shit out of the munitions industry and take the money out of the

 

military budget and they can take care of the soldiers instead of tossing them aside as they do.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 07:52 PM

24. The problem with doing that is that it would change every administration

 

A special fund designated ONLY for that purpose would not be subject to pilfering by Republicans later down the road.
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Response to Indygram (Reply #24)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 09:02 PM

27. Then take that money for the fund from the bloated, wasteful military budget and they

 

can take care of the people they use. This is nothing more than fucking bakesales for healthcare because the government doesn't care about its people only it's a tax instead of a donation. Let's raise taxes when they want to go to war to take care of the military men and women. That should cool their jets.
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:16 PM

17. Intriguing

 

Not a bad idea. Last weekend I heard pundits saying “ war with Iran “ so many times. The media loves war since it boosts their ratings.

It doesn’t affect what we already spend since that does not seem to include health care for veterans.
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:22 PM

18. Shared Sacrifice

 

It be interesting to see how much support there would be for a military action if the population knew their taxes would have to rise to pay for it.

Don't think it can go anywhere legislatively but it as an interesting discussion.
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:28 PM

19. Why is the tax to pay for veteran's health care rather than do what normal countries do

 

and raise taxes to pay for actual wars?
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:54 PM

20. Whole plan is very detailed and comprehensive with lots of good ideas

 

Here is a link to the whole plan-it is very long, detailed and comprehensive https://betoorourke.com/veterans/#part-4

Here are the sections:

1) End the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Reinvest the Savings in Veterans
2) Invest in Building a State-of-the-Art Veterans Affairs Health Care System
3) Provide All Veterans with Equal Treatment
4) Ensure Veterans Can Succeed When They Come Home

A few points that stood out to me (much more detail in the full plan)

-Bring a responsible end to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.These conflicts have yielded both tremendous human and fiscal costs. By ending these wars, we can reinvest the resources saved in those who have served.
-Establish a new Veterans Health Care Trust Fund subject to robust transparency and accountability, including regular reporting to Congress.
-Under Beto’s plan, every new VHCTF would be paired with enactment of new war tax. This new tax would serve as a reminder of the incredible sacrifice made by those who serve and their families. (See full plan but this is a progressive tax and not on current or veteran families)
-Invest in Building a State-of-the-Art Veterans Affairs Health Care System.
-modernize the VA by increasing transparency and accountability, addressing staffing shortages—prioritizing closing the human capital gap of the over 45,000 vacant positions at the VA, including the 40,000 at the Veterans Health Administration, with a focus on the severe shortages in positions dealing with mental health, and instituting changes to decrease the appeals backlog
-Establish the VA as a leader on mental health and opioid treatment.
-Ensure VA providers are talking to veterans about gun safety with a particular focus on safe storage options to put time and distance between veterans in crisis and guns.
-Attack bureaucratic backlogs and red tape, creating a model for efficiency within the health-care industry. Under an O’Rourke Administration, the VA would be required to reform the appeals backlog so that decisions can be rendered in less than 100 days
-In particular, Beto would call for Congress to double funding of NIH research into Alzheimer’s and related dementias, from $2.5 billion to $5 billion annually, to confront risks stemming from their service. It is estimated that between 2010 and 2020 nearly 420,000 veterans will have developed new cases of Alzheimers, with one-third of new cases directly related to service. Not only will this research yield tremendous benefits for veterans — it would help bend the cost curve for our nation’s spending on caring for those with Alzheimer’s and related dementias.
-Lots of detail on women, LGBTQ+ and veterans with service related who have been denied benefits being given equal treatment (read the plan if interested--too long to post even snippets here)
-Restore military service as a pathway to citizenship
-Ensure Veterans Can Succeed When They Come Home
-reverse boot camps” to ensure veterans are prepared for success in their communities prior to discharge.
-Expand support for families of servicemembers
-Beto will harness government resources to prevent veteran homelessness and to support veterans seeking to improve their employment credentials, own their own businesses or farms, or avoid crushing student loan debt (see whole plan for all of the detail)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 06:53 PM

21. I think it's a good idea. Make warmongering more personal. Let those who vote for hawks

 

think about the choices they make.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 07:23 PM

22. Don't we already pay this tax???? nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #22)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 08:35 PM

25. Many vets wait years or get denied help

 

Especially for PTSD and mental health. One reason why there are so many veteran suicides. This plan requires a trust fund for veteran care to be set up if there is a new war. So a trust fund can’t be raided for other purposes if Republicans get control again.

And there are many details elsewhere in the plan about speeding up the review of applications and cutting back on BS denials

And this is separate than other healthcare because veterans have unique needs, such as ptsd that helps to have specialists. For regular healthcare Beto supports Medicare for America (a current bill in Congress by several members of the progressive caucus) which lets people go on a Medicare plan if they want to but keep their private insurance if they’d rather
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Response to essadaw (Reply #25)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 09:32 PM

30. And you think with this fund they will get taken care of in days?

 

Won't happen.
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 08:54 PM

26. Now I've heard everything.

 

How about just build one less huge boondoggle project and fund it all from there?

What if someone's a pacifist? Can they opt out? (Not that I think this is going anywhere, but I find this very disturbing).
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to LisaM (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 09:14 PM

29. This is a deterrent to new wars

 

This is a deterrent to new wars. It only applies to new wars, making sure care for veterans caregets funded. The whole point is making people decide if the sacrifice of a little tax is worth going to war. If it is not worth $25-$1000 ( sliding based on income) then there is no new war. People might actually give a damn about never ending wars if it impacted them personally
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Response to essadaw (Reply #29)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 09:50 PM

32. It would have to deter GOP lawmakers

 

And the military industrial complex. Very unlikely.
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Response to LisaM (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 09:37 PM

31. Disturbing is right. And stupid.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 09:07 PM

28. This would make sense if taxpayers were the ones deciding to start "new wars."

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 11:44 PM

33. I'm sorry but this is nuts

 

What the hell?
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