Ocasio-Cortez on Biden: 'I think that he's not a pragmatic choice'

[brooklynite]

The Hill

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) is dismissing the idea that former Vice President Joe Biden is the best Democrat to take on President Trump.

"I think he's not a pragmatic choice," Ocasio-Cortez says.

In a lengthy profile on the freshman progressive lawmaker published in Vogue on Wednesday, Ocasio-Cortez said her concerns around Biden are similar to issues former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had in 2016.

"If you pick the perfect candidate like Joe Biden to win that guy in the diner, the cost will make you lose because you will depress turnout as well,” she said. “And that’s exactly what happened to 2016. We picked the logically fitting candidate, but that candidate did not inspire the turnout that we needed.”

Ocasio-Cortez said her “frustration with politics today” stems from candidates' desire to sacrifice the electorate as a whole for “that dude in the diner.”

The dude in the diner shows up and votes.

[Kahuna7]

1. Biden to AOC: Thanks for the endorsement.

Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2019, 12:15 PM - Edit history (1)

[George II]

2. Bazinga!

[LongtimeAZDem]

26. Snap!

[Green Line]

39. Yup, big thanks to AOC

[emmaverybo]

62. Brilliant.

[George II]

3. So who IS her "pragmatic choice"? Easy to reject one of 24, much more difficult to choose one of 24.

[kcr]

69. It will be Bernie Sanders

Bet on it.

[bluewater]

4. What changed in the 2018 Blue Wave, Younger voter turnout.

Among 18- to 29-year-olds, voter turnout went from 20 percent in 2014 to 36 percent in 2018, the largest percentage point increase for any age group — a 79 percent jump.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/04/behind-2018-united-states-midterm-election-turnout.html

AOC is wrong to dismiss older voters though, look at the census chart and you see turnout percentage increases with age.

She should have stuck to her actual point, that in her opinion some candidates would turn off younger voters and Democrats would lose their margin of victory.

We need a consensus candidate that can appeal to Democrats of all ages, not just the youngest, or oldest 30%.

[empedocles]

8. 20 red Congressional seats won in 2018. Arithmetic

There are reasons that red seats Reps look askance at all this dem purist stuff looking at 2020. They know their Districts.

[KPN]

11. I tend to agree regarding younger voters. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think tRump will be enough

to get them past their lack of excitement about a Biden nomination. It's pretty clear they want to see the page turned decisively. They aren't about returning to the collegiality of the past.

[Demsrule86]

43. Oh please..sick of the excitement crap...fact is vote for a Democrat or suffer the consequences.

[KPN]

45. Oh, that'll convince them.

[Demsrule86]

72. If getting rid of Trump doesn't convince them than there is no hope...better try to find another

constituency. They sure didn't come out in the midterms but moderates did...we need moderates to take back the house...take a look at a Senate map and an electoral college map...it will make you weep when you consider the ramifications now and even in 24.

[emulatorloo]

79. Biden polls very well among millennials though. From March

Poll from a few months ago, but I think it proves it is a mistake to assume millennials don’t like and won’t be ‘excited’ to vote for Biden and against Trump

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128729144

...



Poll: Biden leads among millennial voters

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/434639-poll-biden-leads-among-millennial-voters


Former Vice President Joe Biden leads a selection of Democratic presidential candidates and potential candidates among millennial voters, according to a survey released Monday.

According to CBS News, a poll organized by the University of Chicago's GenForward Project found that Biden has the support of 21 percent of voters between the ages of 18 and 34. Coming in second is Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who is supported by 18 percent of millennials, according to the poll.

The poll also showed that young minority voters support Biden. Twenty-nine percent of Asian-American millennials, 28 percent of African-American millennials and 19 percent of Hispanic millennials said they plan to back Biden, the poll found.

The poll was based on interviews with 2,134 millennials from Feb. 8 to Feb. 25 and has a margin of error of 3.5 percentage points, according to CBS News.

-sniip-



From the CBS article:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-leads-2020-democrats-in-millennial-support-poll-finds/

Former Vice President Joe Biden, who is mulling a White House bid, leads declared and potential Democratic presidential candidates in support among millennial voters, according to a new poll of adults between the ages of 18 and 34.

The poll, organized by the University of Chicago's GenForward Survey Project, found that 21 percent of millennials back Biden over Democrats who have entered the crowded primary field, including Sens. Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren. Sanders, whose insurgent 2016 campaign was fueled by ardent support among young progressive voters, is a close second at 18 percent.

According to the poll, Biden also enjoys strong support among young minority voters. With support from 29 percent of Asian American millennials, 28 percent of African American millennials and 19 percent of millennial whites, the former Delaware senator led in all surveyed voting blocs — except millennial Latinos. Twenty-six percent of Hispanics between the ages of 18 and 34 said they support Sanders. Among that group, Biden came in second with 19 percent support.

-snip-

[George II]

16. There are a number of factors contributing to increased voter turnout in every age group in 2018....

Voting in general was way up across the board. As for young voters, the increase from 2014 to 2018 is partly because turnout among younger voters in 2014 was very low, the lowest turnout of all the age groups, only 19.9% (vs 35.6% for the next lowest turnout in 2014).

When you start low any increase is prounounced. It still was the lowest of the four distinct age groups, 35.6% to 48.8% for 30-44, 59.5% for 45-64, and a whopping 66.1% for 65+ (historically the highest turnout age group year after year)

[Demsrule86]

5. More threats from those on 'our side'...really.

[KPN]

12. Threat? Hardly. More like an observation. Perhaps not as well stated as it could have been, but

her concerns do have some legitimacy in my view.

[Demsrule86]

44. Here is the problem...candidates that you find exciting are unlikely

to win the general....we need rustbelt states or Trump wins.

[KPN]

46. I'm not convinced Biden can win. He does

strike me as a safe choice if not a sure bet. We had what we thought was a sure bet last time.

[Demsrule86]

71. There is no sure bet...but I think Biden is the only one who can win a primary (Ryan might win)

who has a snowballs chance in hell in the general...we need rust belt states...the progressive message won't play here.

[SouthernProgressive]

6. She doesn't make much sense here.

"If you pick the perfect candidate like Joe Biden to win that guy in the diner, the cost will make you lose because you will depress turnout as well."

I'm surprised that sentence passed her lips. She is smarter than that. The sentence itself is void of meaning.

[honest.abe]

17. I guess she is referring to the more progressive/younger voters who might be turned off by Biden.

Although that might be somewhat true it doesn't at all mean Biden will lose. In fact its becoming clear that Biden brings alot more moderate voters to the D side than the number of "uninspired" who might not show up.

[George II]

58. Younger voters are the age demographic that historically has the lowest % turnout.

[loyalsister]

29. It's not a simple calculus

Suppose you lose 2 votes for to each the guy in the diner? It's not a great trade off.
It wasn't only guys at the diner who threw the election to Trump by not showing up. Black voter turnout was down. Combining that factor with the ever increasing younger voter pool, it's worth rethinking electability and conventional wisdom about safe candidates.

[SouthernProgressive]

30. Seems the perfect candidate would just get the votes.

It really is a nonsensical statement she made.

Good point you make that actually compounds the nonsensical nature of the statement.

[loyalsister]

37. There is no perfect candidate

She's pointing out the flaw in the argument for a Biden candidacy which presumes the need to appeal to the white guy in the diner who voted for Trump or stayed home MORE than other voters who did not show up for Hillary.
She's saying that she does not think it is necessarily as practical as some believe to focus on appealing to a white men in the rust belt when they are only part of a much larger population that didn't show up for Hillary as they did for Obama.

[SouthernProgressive]

38. "There is no perfect candidate"

No doubt.

[Demsrule86]

47. Particularly among some Black men who my future son in law (POC) says

Won't vote for a woman. He said he tried to change their minds but...sick of the threats from the left left...all the demands and wasting time amd money primarying sitting Democrats while moderates rolled up their sleeves and took the house.

[still_one]

7. It is interesting. Those like Rep. Cortez intentionally use emotional trigger words to get

attention, and 9 times out of 10 what they end up doing is creating a distraction from the actual issue they are trying to get attention on

and that she believes bringing Hillary into the picture will "drive her point home?

A perfect example of this was her use of the word "concentration camp", instead of getting the focus directed to the plight of the undocumented people, and the mistreatment they are going through. Instead people were arguing over whether this or that word should be used. Fortunately, people like Pelosi was working behind the scenes with Democrats in the House to craft legislation to actually do something about it.

Another example was Rep Omar's comments a couple months back, which may have been to criticize the influence lobbyists in Washington, but instead it created a distraction from what it intended to do

In this age of gotcha journalism, politicians should be savvy enough to know what’s up,

and while some extoll all kinds of virtues on this type of approach, how effective is it?

[KPN]

15. Pretty effective when the GOP do it en masse 24/7 on any issue they are amped up on. Seems to

have worked for them over the past 40 years.

[Thekaspervote]

9. This among other issues is why DONT like her!! She rushes in where angels fear to go.

Hopefully she’ll gain experience before she fatally shoots herself in the foot. Like calling him “that dude at the diner.” Cheap shot that will once again backfire with his supporters and independents alike.

[murielm99]

10. Isn't she the one involved in all that crap about

primarying sitting Democrats? I dismiss her. She is not anything more than a media creation.

[DrToast]

14. I really like AOC, but one thing I don't care for

Is that I think she could show a little humility*. It's fine to have strong beliefs, but at least be open to the idea that you could be wrong.

*This has long been my main issue with Bernie, too.

[dsp3000]

33. Agreed, she starts too much crap within the party

Nt

[NYMinute]

13. Let AOC rail against Biden

The more she does it, the more mainstream voters will see Biden as the reasonable, fiscally responsible and socially progressive guy.

Except for a very small minority of Democrats, no one wants $10 trillion worth of programs put on the backs of taxpayers.

The newsflash that even raising taxes on the top 10% income earners by 70%, there just isn't enough money to pay for all that, will backfire against the extreme left wing.

[Demsrule86]

73. You are right...and I like Beto too.

[peggysue2]

18. This is a very dumb argument

Because the prevailing criticism is that Biden is the pragmatic choice, too pragmatic. As in: he can win the General Election, kick Trump and his enablers to the curb.

And if beating Trump into a quivering lump doesn't inspire you then you haven't been keeping up, have not noticed the destruction that this Administration has exacted on the rule of law, our basic institutions, our reputation as a country, our battered relationships with allies, the domestic mess left in the Trumpster's wake.

If you cannot get charged up with saving the country you live in, saving the future for your kids and grandkids? Then diminishing the guy at the diner while puffing up your own importance makes sense. Because you only exist in a narrow bandwidth.

[Thekaspervote]

19. Oh...well stated!!

[Cha]

64. Indeed, Peggysue.. she totally tried to

"diminish the guy in the diner.... "... etc etc etc..

Thank You! :group:

[comradebillyboy]

20. I don't think her endorsement would benefit Joe Biden.

It would only hurt him with the centrist and independent voters he will need for an EC victory. Problem is, OAC isn't nearly as influential as she thinks she is.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

21. Pragmatic

dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.

Promising Medicare For All, Free College, Cancelling All Student Debt appeals to the younger voters and I don't blame them. But it's not pragmatic at all. Without a Democratic senate you're not getting any of your standout proposals passed, you can't EO this stuff into reality, the courts have gone much more conservative. This is not pragmatic....this is false hope.

Pragmatic is the guy who is saying "hey the ACA helped millions of people and while it was not perfect, it was better than before. And now we need to revive it and expand it so it keeps getting better each step".

[Kahuna7]

23. Here here!

[Demit]

59. Okay. How, without a Democratic Senate, is the pragmatic guy going to get his proposals passed?

Charm?

[Demsrule86]

75. No one will get anything through...but the GOP won't get judges and that is huge.

[Demit]

77. An un-pragmatic Democrat will nominate good judges just as well as a pragmatic one.

So the question still stands.

[Demsrule86]

78. Ah but we are talking about who can win.

[Demit]

80. No, I was asking another poster a question.

And the topic was pragmatism, and the poster's assumption that progressive policies won't pass a Republican-controlled Senate but a "pragmatic" policy like expanding the ACA will.

I know you are heavily invested in your faith that Biden is the only candidate who can beat Trump. But there's no evidence that that's true, because there can't be, until the election has actually happened. There's only your faith in the idea. It's kind of tiresome that you want to steer the subject to it, even when other people were talking about other concepts.

[redstatebluegirl]

22. No offense, I could care less who AOC endorses or doesn't.

[LongtimeAZDem]

42. I do, but only as data for evaluating her, not those she opines about

[jalan48]

24. I agree. Time to turn the page.

[themaguffin]

25. What an asinine comment. Wow.

[Princetonian]

27. As a former NYC bartender, she certainly knows what she is talking about...

.... not.

[dem4decades]

28. She should at least acknowledge that her politics are not representative of the country as a whole.

[LongtimeAZDem]

31. This incredibly superficial statement:

“And that’s exactly what happened to 2016. We picked the logically fitting candidate, but that candidate did not inspire the turnout that we needed.”

demonstrates a severe and fundamental lack of understanding of the factors in play during the last election.

[George II]

49. Some people need to do a little research before making proclamations about "facts"...

....that aren't born out in reality.

Turnout in 2016 was 55.5%. That's higher than what it was in 2012. Going back to 1972 it was the third highest turnout - only Obama's first election and Kerry's candidacy were higher - Kerry's was a mere 0.2% higher than 2016.

Turnout was there, and the Democratic candidate got 3.5M more voters than her opponent. So what was wrong with the 2016 turnout?

[LongtimeAZDem]

50. Yep; AOC needs to understand that being elected by 100k people in a district that would have

voted for a fire hydrant if it had a "D" next to it on the ballot does not entitle her to speak for the electorate as a whole.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

32. Yea ok

Whatever

[Butterflylady]

34. Well this is one I will use the trash button on.

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. Ask Gretchen Whitmer and Sharice Davids if they care about an AOC endorsement.

[Demsrule86]

48. Moderates took the house,

[George II]

52. Bazinga!

[Cha]

67. Excellent point, Tarheel.. and Lacy Clay of Missouri!

[Kahuna7]

36. Meh.

[RelativelyJones]

40. AOC needs to get out of her bubble.

[kcr]

70. She needs break free from her Justice Dems/Jimmy Dore friend group

I really want to like her, especially when I watch her smacking down Republicans in committee. But then I read stuff like that and I remember why I don't. Guy in a diner?

[treestar]

41. He is a very pragmatic candidate

Like earlier threads discussed, calling him a safe choice

[George II]

51. Turnout going back to Jimmy Carter's election:

1972 140,777,000 77,625,000 55.1%
1976 152,308,000 81,603,000 53.6%
1980 163,945,000 86,497,000 52.8%
1984 173,995,000 92,655,000 53.3%
1988 181,956,000 91,587,000 50.3%
1992 189,493,000 104,600,000 55.2%
1996 196,789,000 96,390,000 49.0%
2000 209,787,000 105,594,000 50.3%
2004 219,553,000 122,349,000 55.7%
2008 229,945,000 131,407,000 58.2%
2012 235,248,000 129,235,000 54.9%
2016 250,056,000 138,847,000 55.5%

2016 was third highest by %, and was THE highest vote total in history by 7.4 million votes.

[melman]

53. She is 100% right

as usual.

[George II]

57. See posts #49 and #51. Thank you.

[melman]

60. I already did

And she's still 100% right.

You're welcome.

[George II]

61. She said we didn't get the turnout. 2016 was the HIGHEST turnout by voters....

...in our history, by about 7.4 million voters.

It was the third highest turnout by % since 1972, only behind Obama's historic election in 2008 and Kerry's in 2004.

Her conclusion about turnout was incorrect - we got the turnout, there were other factors that contributed to the Democrats losing.

[IluvPitties]

54. Another good reason to vote for him.

[Indygram]

55. If Democrats nominate Beto O'Rourke they can have BOTH

eom

[FloridaBlues]

56. AOC comments are not helpful for anyone.

Maybe who she thinks the " perfect" candidate would be may not be for the same for another voter.
Every candidate has some kind of flaw.

[Cha]

66. Exactly.. they're the opposite of helpful.

[oasis]

63. Former Rep. Joe Crowley became addicted to Mel's "Blue Plate Special".

That was his downfall.

[Demsrule86]

76. Yep, you can bet they will be lining up to take her on in a primary;the Amazon thing was

was an unforced error.

[Cha]

65. Hillary got 66 Million Votes, AOC.. and the Russians

interfered with our election. Please get up to speed.

No thanks to you for dissing Hillary.

[ecstatic]

68. This is what you call a self fulfilling prophecy

The way I see it is, either knock Biden out COMPLETELY by bringing up something that will instantly destroy his candidacy or shutup about him. Because if Biden wins the nomination, all the attacks on his character and record could cause low information and/or younger voters to stay home.

Once a low information voter forms an impression, it's nearly impossible to change his/her mind. They think they are well informed.

[Honeycombe8]

74. Most Democrats are moderate. Most "likely voters" who are Dems are moderate. nt