Joe just explained busing facts, gotta get that bit down.

[elleng]

Didn't we just see him with Governor/Senator Graham?

[LovingA2andMI]

1. Joe Lost....

Period!

[onetexan]

2. NOT

[LovingA2andMI]

4. YES.....

"Our enemy is the gun manufacturers, not the NRA." - Joe Biden.

[IluvPitties]

8. You wanted him to lose. That doesn't mean he did.

[LovingA2andMI]

23. Okay...

n/t...

[brooklynite]

80. Whereas you didn't want him to win?

[elleng]

9. FACT

[emulatorloo]

12. Surely you aren't defending the craven gun manufacturers?

[crazytown]

13. As Pete said 'But gun manufactures fund the NRA'

as he was being cut off. He is correct.

[emulatorloo]

19. Yeah Pete was great. I think Senator Harris didn't do herself any favors w the attacks on Biden

[crazytown]

29. I thought she turned what could have been a triumph

into a points win. When she said, 'guys stop the food fight', I thought oh boy - the presidential lane. Then she lost it against Biden

[emulatorloo]

35. Agreed, very excited about the "food fight" comment

[RHMerriman]

41. Democrats who talk about their political rivals' words being "hurtful" are weak, not strong...

Democrats who talk about their political rivals' words being "hurtful" are weak, not strong...

Attack your opponents' actions, not their words. What is she, 5?

Grow up. Does she think Trump is going to be apologetic if she says he's mean?

Pathetic.

[crazytown]

46. I'm talking about perceptions here, l not feelings

(From an earlier post) You pay (too much) attention to the theater, but can't see the backstage. Politicians are showmen and women. They play politics - it is their business. Kamala needs a respectable outcome in SC. Joe knows that as well. They each do what they have to. End of story.

[RHMerriman]

62. As I said, it was a hail mary to try and get out of the cellar with AA voters...

As I said, it was a hail mary to try and get out of the cellar with AA voters...

Unfortunately, emotion isn't going to accomplish that.

[crazytown]

64. If it's bad politics, it's bad politics.

We are in an era where Trump was unscathed after ridiculing McCain's war record. Who can say?

[RHMerriman]

65. True ... cripes, he criticized the Gold Star parents of a US Army officer KIA...

True ... cripes, he criticized the Gold Star parents of a US Army officer KIA, and his supporters never blinked an eye.

The Khans didn't complain about his language.

[crazytown]

66. And his presidency makes those outrages look like nothing.

These attacks on Biden are wrong headed but politically expedient. Cory and Kamal can't afford to luck out in SC. It's politics. Politicians can turn emotions on or off at will, but it may well be bad politics. I don't know.

[RHMerriman]

68. True that...

Strength is good politics. Weakness is not.

[emmaverybo]

53. Strong women don't cry bully against men who aren't and never were bullies. Re-litigating

bussing with Biden may have won her points. Those will not take her to the White House.

[RHMerriman]

59. True that...

True that...

Trump will laugh at her if she keeps on this track.

[emmaverybo]

60. OMG. No tears would move that cold lump. He'd snap like a fat croc basking in the sun. NT

[RHMerriman]

61. He laughs out loud and makes fun of those who are wear their hearts on the sleeves...

He laughs out loud and makes fun of those who are wear their hearts on the sleeves...

It's brutish and boorish, but emotion is never going to reach him.

Harris looked weak.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. The NRA is just the marketing arm of the gun industry.

So that was a true statement. The NRA would still be just a hunters' and gun safety organization like it was many years ago if it weren't for the fact that the gun manufacturers started using them to promote gun sales.

[boomer_wv]

43. Icarus.

Judging from what's going on at NRA right now, I think they might have flown too close to the sun. Wouldn't surprise me to see them taking a much lower profile for the coming years as they find their new identify. It seems that all of the public facing people there are being ousted.

[NanceGreggs]

32. He's right.

The NRA is the marketing arm/PR department of the gun manufacturers. Their mandate is to promote the products the manufacturers produce.

The NRA is no different than any other unscrupulous marketing firm that pushes the sale of dangerous pesticides or prescription drugs. When the source of dangerous products is stopped from producing them, their marketing firm has nothing to promote.

[PatSeg]

47. The NRA is a lobbyist for gun manufacturers

Without gun manufacturers, there would be no NRA.

[GulfCoast66]

58. Well, you are not correct.

For most of its history the NRA was a hunters and sport shooters group. It routinely supported gun legislation. It focused on gun safety and training. It was an honorable group when dad signed me up in the mid 70’s.

It was taken over in the late 70’s early 80’s by right wing nuts and in the last decade has gone all in on the hardest right positions.

Now the crows have come home to roost and it is dying.

Like most people I assumed it was gun manufacturers money. Now I am not so sure. I think Russian money has been flowing into them for a while now. Ironic, since Russia has no right to gun ownership.

If we win the Presidency in 2020 I expect the truth to win out.

[highplainsdem]

5. No, he didn't. That exchange may have helped Harris with some Democrats, but it

probably hurt her with others.

I posted a tweet of Dan Rather's in another OP, because he immediately saw both sides of this.

[elleng]

6. YES.

[emulatorloo]

20. +1

[BeyondGeography]

7. Utterly

We’re seeing the denial phase right now.

[emulatorloo]

10. It was bizarre that Harris pretended busing was uncontroversial w AA communities/liberals

after it was implemented. Misrepresented Biden as well. Seemed calculated. Was a fail for me, but y’all might like it

Do love Harris though

[StarfishSaver]

67. How exactly did she "pretend busing was uncontroversial with AA communities/liberals"?

and how exactly did she misrepresent Biden?

[emulatorloo]

69. That's my take on it. You're certainly entitled to yours. Time will tell whether this was a 'smart

‘smart move’ or a miscalculation on her part.

I think we can all agree she needs to talk up her strengths and accomplishments if she wants to get out of single digit polling. She’s got a lot of great things to talk about so I look forward to more positive things from her.

[StarfishSaver]

70. But you didn't just give a "take" - you accused her of something specific.

You said she "pretended busing was uncontroversial with AA communities/liberals" and that she mischaracterized what Biden said.

What did she say that even remotely implies that "busing was uncontroversial with AA communities/liberals"? And where does she mischaracterize what Biden said?

It's one thing to have an impression, but if you're accusing someone of doing something specific, shouldn't you be able to show what it was?

[emulatorloo]

72. I'm not the only one who has stated the same thing.

Sorry not interested in continuing this conversation.

If you want to pick a fight and have an extended subthead, find someone else.

Have a great night.

[NYC Liberal]

11. I think it was a very bad moment for him.

He should have known this was going to be brought up and should have been much better prepared for it.

[Green Line]

14. I think it was

A bad moment for her

[elleng]

17. She lost my whatever.

[emulatorloo]

22. I love Senator Harris, but thought her attack on Biden was unfair

[elleng]

15. He tried to explain a complex jurisdictional/procedural issue briefly,

as forced by the circumstances; he'll get it down for the future.

[MarvinGardens]

24. Agree.

On here, before tonight, I was officially undecided. But if you'd asked, I'd have said "lean Biden". I'm sorry to say, he floundered tonight. I was not impressed.

Mayor Pete killed it. He's got that special something.

[democrank]

38. Everything Pete Buttigieg says makes sense to me

To my way of thinking, he was the brightest bulb on stage tonight.

[dawg day]

40. I keep thinking... He's got the Obama thing--

That cool calmness that comes from self-knowledge.
It's kind of uncanny, his ability-- like Obama-- to accept uncertainty and stay calm. Maybe growing up in a kind of ambiguous position in the world-- African-American (and mixed race), and gay-- conveys that sort of composure in a thoughtful person?

[Honeycombe8]

25. I'm definitely not a Biden supporter, but I don't think he lost that exchange. Harris was wrong.

Harris got her facts wrong.

Besides, not everyone was in favor of busing. I wasn't. And neither were any kids in my city. It was very hard on the kids. They'd have to catch the bus very early because they had to travel further, and they had to go to a school where they didn't know anyone and were looked on as "different."

[boomer_wv]

49. re

I'm too young to have seen anything first hand on racial busing, but when I was a kid my local school was closed and I was consolidated into a school that was in another town. It was a 30+ minute drive by car, but I had to ride a bus for around 90 minutes each way. That really made it next to impossible for me to be involved in any sports or extracurriculars because it was too hard for me to get to and from practices each day. I made friends there, but I also never felt like a true member of that community. I like an outsider because I wasn't able to be involved in the same way.

Is that a similar experience?

[Demsrule86]

34. No he didn't.

[LanternWaste]

79. Nice bumper sticker. Bless your heart. It's fun pretending "Period!" means something, yes?

[ucrdem]

3. He had a good answer: he didn't oppose busing,

he opposed busing mandated by the Dept of Education. So he had no objections to Kamala being bused in Berkeley though she tried to make it seem like he did.

[Lheurch]

16. The Department of Education

did not exist until 1979. He may want to re-answer that one.

[Honeycombe8]

31. We'll have to look at the video to see what he said.

Even though it wasn't the "Dept of Education" back then, that dept was preceded by the Dept of Health Education & Welfare (the "office of education&quot . So he meant the federal dept that controlled the laws or regs pertaining to education. But I'm not sure he actually said Dept of Education. I remember that he changed the name of the dept while speaking...that may be because the name of it changed during his time in the Senate.

[Lheurch]

37. I am fairly sure

He said Department of Education but I would 100% accept the answer that he was referring to its predecessor given it has been known by its current name for 40 years.

[boomer_wv]

51. irrelevant

Probably too deep in the weeds to worry about what the particular department was called 40 years ago.

[dalton99a]

63. "What I opposed is bussing ordered by the Department of Education"

HARRIS: But, Vice President Biden, do you agree today -- do you agree today that you were wrong to oppose bussing in America then? Do you agree?

BIDEN: I did not oppose bussing in America. What I opposed is bussing ordered by the Department of Education. That's what I opposed. I did not oppose...

HARRIS: Well, there was a failure of states to integrate public schools in America. I was part of the second class to integrate Berkeley, California, public schools almost two decades after Brown v. Board of Education.

BIDEN: Because your city council made that decision. It was a local decision.

HARRIS: So that's where the federal government must step in.

BIDEN: The federal government...

HARRIS: That's why we have the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act.

(APPLAUSE)

[StarfishSaver]

71. "I did not oppose busing in America. What I opposed is busing ordered by the Department of Education

That’s what I opposed."

[Voltaire2]

75. The distinction without a difference.

Joe should just say he was wrong.

[Goodheart]

21. His answer was duplicitous

Opposing Federally-mandated busing was effectively the same as opposing busing, period.

He should have just admitted his mistake and then affirmed that his entire record is the measure of his attitudes on race.

[elleng]

26. He was not able fully to explain,

NOT duplicitous.

[emulatorloo]

27. Busing had unintended consequences, which disrurbed liberals and members of AA community

It’s not as simple as Harris painted it, and she misrepresented his position.

Kind of a fail. Of course YMMV

[Honeycombe8]

33. I don't think so. It's saying, " this is a state or local matter."

It really is different. It's recognizing that some areas just didn't want to do it, and the fed wasn't making the procedure for integration mandated to be busing. Localities could use other ways to do it, if they wanted. But integration was mandated. How the state or local area decided to do it was up to them.

[Demsrule86]

36. Running on busing will lose us the election...very unpoular and not just with white

Voters either. I consider what sen Harris did a mistake and an obvious
attack. Watch she will go nowhere after this.

[MaryMagdaline]

39. If she is going after the AA vote in the South, I would be interested in seeing if

They like Biden being attacked on busing. I don’t think ANY child in the south loved busing. Our school (Class of 77) recently were interviewed and many AA kids (now 60) remembered the anxiety of being in a predominantly white-run school (although now 50-50 among black and white students) and felt overlooked in favor of white students. Macon, Montgomery, Charleston aren’t Berkeley. The 70’s were complicated.

Curious how this attack will play in South Carolina.

[Demsrule86]

42. I like Kamala. But I think she mafe a mistake today and the pundits will be

Shocked when her numbers do not go up.

[MaryMagdaline]

48. She otherwise had a stellar night

[Demsrule86]

50. I just don't agree.

[MaryMagdaline]

52. She doesn't move the dial for me. Party unity counts a lot with me

I’m not in love with prosecutors. Even John Kerry. Glad to know Joe was a PD.

[Demsrule86]

45. No it wasnt.and busing was a bad policy.

[uponit7771]

56. This is false on its face, it matters how it was implemented no doubt

[uponit7771]

55. +1

[StarfishSaver]

73. Thank you

That's like saying, "I didn't oppose voting rights. I just opposed Congress requiring states to protect voting rights."

[delisen]

77. Exactly. +

[dawg day]

44. But she was right too-- If you left integration strategies up to local and state--

Well, really, what would Jackson, Mississippi have come up with? We KNOW what they would come up with ==
"White academies" supported by taxpayers.

There had to be a national response because we knew how very violently the south (and parts of the north) would resist integration. It's like saying, "Let's leave abortion up to the states."
No. If it's an issue of freedom and equality, it's a national imperative, because some states and localities will deny people their rights.

We fought a civil war (AND WON) to assert the primacy of the federal government and the US Constitution over issues of freedom, citizenship, and equality. It's facile to pretend that we should delegate to states and localities the determination of whether integration happens.

(Yes, I know busing wasn't the only way to integrate, but it was necessary in many places... especially those where black children had long been bused PAST public schools.)

[uponit7771]

57. +1, leaving it up to the states is what the USSC did today with gerrymandering

[StarfishSaver]

74. Court-mandated busing was a last resort when all else failed

[Voltaire2]

76. No shit.

[Act_of_Reparation]

78. What's the distinction, though?

I'm not sure I understand why local busing is good but mandated busing is bad.

[Honeycombe8]

18. Governor Graham? nt

[elleng]

28. Yes, Florida! Bob Graham.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Graham

[emmaverybo]

54. Thanks for stopping the telephone game before the end message became "Biden met with David

Duke.”