Can we stop hating on Kirsten Gillibrand, please?

[bornsunny]

I know some people will never forgive her for what she did to Al Franken; but c'mon, she didn't lose the debate and she's done a lot of good as senator.

[IluvPitties]

1. She looked terrible.

One of the most unlikable candidates in recent memory.

[hlthe2b]

2. she gave plenty of additional reason to dislike her as a candidate tonight, so ...

[ancianita]

3. She is trying to open serious consideration for 50 percent of the USA. She's worthy of our attention

[Trumpocalypse]

19. Not going to happen

Like angry right wingers some will never see past their hate.

[Honeycombe8]

4. You don't think so? I think she did lose the debate.

She was pretty bad.

[OliverQ]

5. She didn't do well.

She was angry, rude, and arrogant.

[nolabear]

6. She was bloody awful. There's something brittle there.

[onetexan]

68. Stiff, canned &downright cold. There was nothing warm, relatable or personable about her delivery.

I dont recall seing her smile even once. I found it terribly annoying that she was constantly trying to cut into other candidates' time.
And the word salad was just awful.

[kimbutgar]

7. No alli could see is Al Franken setting on her left shoulder saying noooooo,

[customerserviceguy]

8. Sorry

Still not feeling the love. And she was my Senator when I lived in NY.

[UniteFightBack]

9. I agree..it has gotten old long ago and people can't be objective. I find that distressing. nt

[Trumpocalypse]

20. You're right

And it’s just being objective, some just disregard the actual fact of what happened.

[Lheurch]

10. She showed a lack of respect

to the moderators and all the other candidates. The moderators did not help by letting several people get away with just going off. They needed a mute button.

[Raine]

11. she was rude, disrespectful and annoying

which makes her unlikable to me and has nothing to with Franken.

[Owl]

27. Exactly.

[Mme. Defarge]

54. Obnoxious

[ValidateThis]

57. If she was a man

you’d calll her aggressive and assertive and strong.

[True Dough]

63. Always an assumption

I'm a man. I condemned Bill deBlasio's aggressive and repeated interruptions of other candidates during Wednesday evening's debates.

Inappropriate is inappropriate, gender aside.

[True Dough]

74. I'm glad you can see it my way

Always good to keep an open mind.

[treestar]

84. I think there is an issue though. Look who they will be running against

Interruption is being domineering, alpha, all that crap that the Dotard claims to be. He's going to interrupt and worse.

[True Dough]

90. If you think I'm going to defend Dotard, well, that ain't gonna happen

But my point still stands: poor behavior is poor behavior whether you have a set of gonads or ovaries. And just because someone condemns Gillibrand for her constant interruptions, for example, it does not automatically make that individual a misogynist.

Find someone who excused deBlasio for his rude behavior but then the next night cut down Gillibrand for her aggression. I'd then agree you'd quite likely found an individual who isn't treating the genders fairly.

I believe they should cut off the microphones for ANY candidate who interrupts more than once, regardless of gender or race or support in the polls.

[treestar]

91. How do swing state voters respond?

As for the Dotard, no standards apply to him. When they go low, we go high, or keep standards. That is supposed to work. I only hope 2016 was an anomaly - his winning was such a shock that hopefully we are now prepared and it doesn't repeat.

[True Dough]

92. How do swing state voters respond to what?

I don't understand your question.

[treestar]

93. People interrupting

Does that make them seem strong and domineering? Or rude and uncouth? Since the swing state voters more or less decide who wins, the question is what do they think about any issue, including this one about how interrupting others comes across.

[True Dough]

94. I guess that's part of my problem

I don't see swing state voters as a homogeneous group. Some of them will likely be appalled by serial interrupters while others may view it as an "alpha" characteristic that should be applauded.

Generalization is a major pet peeve for me. Slapping labels on people should be avoided.

[onetexan]

69. Had nothing to do w gender. Gillibrand was awful.

[onetexan]

80. Ah so now playing the gender card

[treestar]

83. oh come on!

Really? He did not claim only a white man could beat the Dotard!

Good grief!

[onetexan]

89. To your 1st paragraph: roll my hazel-brown eyes

I am female, mother of 2 boys & 2 girls, & am not in the least bit sexist nor racist. We've raised our kids to be quite liberal and to treat all people respectfully regardless of their race or gender. So for u to make such a broad statement is way of out line.

BTW, i happen to work in a male dominated field for all my career so no need to preach to me about what a rqcist or sexist is. Ive either endured it or seen it against other women and minorities.

[Green Line]

65. Yes she was, out of control

[elleng]

12. Thanks.

There's a lot of ad hominem attacks going on here now, and I'd like them ALL to go away.

[Trumpocalypse]

21. They never will

Simple minded people people need a simple villain to focus their hate on.

[Mme. Defarge]

13. Has she improved since the debate ended?

[dlk]

14. Gillibrand was Right About Women's Rights Being Sold Out

They always seem to be the first to go in congressional negotiations behind closed doors and, lately, the attacks seem to have been ramped up.

[meadowlander]

15. I was willing to ignore the whole Al Franken thing...

but there's no excuse for constantly interrupting and shouting down other candidates. It made the whole debate look like a circus.

I'm 20 minutes in and praying at some point they just cut her mike off.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. She was NOT the only one shouting to get attention. Seemed to me...

she was one of the quieter interrupters.

[meadowlander]

44. Did I say she was?

This is a thread about Gillibrand so that's what I'm responding to.

There was a question clearly directed at someone else at the beginning where she spent at least forty seconds trying to shout over one of the moderators. Nobody could hear anything either of them was saying so it's not like she got her ideas across. She just wasted everyone's time.

What was the point of that other than to say "I'm a rude, oblivious person who can't understand simple rules like 'wait for the moderator to get a question out, let the person it was obviously directed to respond and then ask for a 30 second rebuttal if I want one'". Kindergartners understand the concept of taking turns better.

Gillibrand, Swalwell, etc. looked like four year olds being taken to task when Kamala shut it down.

She didn't do herself any favors last night, admit it.

I was completely agnostic going into this night of the debate and my immediate reaction to her performance was "yeah, no." With 24 flavors to pick from, it's easy to find a candidate that combines "has done some good, difficult progressive stuff in the past" with "knows basic manners and can project charisma on TV".

[Duppers]

16. No.

[Rhiannon12866]

17. She was my congresswoman and did a good job here in NY-20

She defeated a Republican incumbent that the local paper said "could have the job for life, if he wanted it." We were sorry to lose her - her Democratic successor (I worked on his campaigns) won his first election, but lost the second and we're stuck with Republican representation again.

[TuxedoKat]

61. Wait

Did you move? We now have Anthony Delgado, a Democrat, NY-19, part of the blue wave. 20th is Paul Tonko, also a Democrat.

[Rhiannon12866]

62. No, we got redistricted.

We were NY-20 until 2015, then we became part of the North Country, we're now in District 21, stuck with Elise Stefanik. The candidate I worked for was Scott Murphy who ran to fill Gillibrand's seat when she was appointed senator. He won the first election and lost the second. Bill Owens was a moderate Democrat when we first became part of NY-21, but Elise Stefanik has won every election since he retired. I'd sure prefer Antonio Delgado, we saw his political ads here.

[Trumpocalypse]

18. Never going to happen

Despite the fact over 35 other Senators called for Franken to resign the very same morning. Simple minded people need a simple villain to focus their hate on. Like it or not it is Gillibrand, the facts be damned. Anyone with half a brain, not blinded by bias, can see the whole Franken thing was orchestrated by leadership, not by a single junior senator with little power or influence. But again, the facts be damned. And who for, a Senator with no major accomplishments. But hey he’s a white guy TV star. And some think we are so superior to Trump supporters. Ha!

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Since nothing in DC happens that fast, the incredibly rapid...

disappearance of Franken rings alarm bells.

Something else was going on, something we will likely never know about. But Gillibrand was chosen to take the lead.

Or she volunteered.

But I can't believe she did that all on her own.

[Trumpocalypse]

35. Exactly

Unfortunately people act like she put a gun to his head and forced Franken to resign.

[madville]

104. They all coordinated calling on him to resign

Literally within an hour or two, her, Harris, Warren, etc called on him to resign in front of the cameras. If I remember right Gillibrand and Harris's announcements were within a few minutes of each other.

[Skittles]

22. nope

[DrToast]

23. I like her ideas

I'll give her that. I think she's barking up the right tree on the corruption.

[watoos]

26. I think she did better than Biden,

[IluvPitties]

34. Yeah, sure.

[trueblue2007]

49. Oh she did not. She was RUDE RUDE RUDE, All about Me, me, me.

She should have been escorted off the stage during the first commercial. She would not stop interrupting the candidates and the moderators.

[Bradical79]

67. That's a pretty low bar though lol

She did win some points with my mom.

[Mike Nelson]

28. Never hated her...

… she made a mistake in leading the parade to get rid of Franken, though. I liked some of her ideas last night, but she didn't impress me as much as others... she could have had a debate moment by stating Crooked Donald was "a rapist, according to credible accounts, and New York should look at the statute of limitations and consider arresting him." Al Franken and the accuser demonstrated juvenile, offensive behavior on an Army tour - there was no rape.

[Frustratedlady]

29. I went to bed with the feeling Gillibrand was too rude with her interruptions and demeanor...

It was the first thing I thought of when I got up, this morning.

I came into these debates with the hope the candidates would work at being civil with each other and impress us with their intelligent comments compared to the idiotic beliefs and actions of the Republicans and our so-called president. However, I was met on both nights with mass confusion and yelling. If I, as a strong Democrat, couldn't "take it" then how could we expect any Republicans to change parties and vote for a Democrat?

Who was giving them advice? Who set up this fiasco or did they just call them out on stage and throw them to the wolves?

Disgraceful performances by the party, the candidates and NBC.

[onetexan]

70. You're generalizing

Overall most of the candidates were civil & i felt did well. Gilli rand was the only one who was rude & annoying.

[JustAnotherGen]

30. She came across

As canned - much like Gabbard did. The only people who followed the rules were Joe, Pete, and Andy.

The hosts of the next debate need to cut mics when their time is up.

That was a spectacle not a debate.

[flor-de-jasmim]

31. Even leaving out the Al Franken issue, I found the way she framed her candidacy annoying.

We often complain about candidates who focus on one issue to the detriment of all others--I think it's fine for her to "talk directly" to women, but she sounded as though she didn't really care if any men voted for her. Everything was framed for women. Although she made references to family, she did not bring men into any issue. That apparent inability to see beyond her personal framework was worrying.

I don't believe she will get the nomination - if she does, I will vote for her, but in the meantime she needs to be a bit less tone deaf.

[robbedvoter]

32. Who?

From NY.

[kcr]

33. She impressed me last night

And I'm a dyed in the wool Al Franken supporter who had the pitchfork out for her from day one. I liked how she jumped in the scrum on Medicare for all and effectively knocked down some misinformed talking points.

[SouthernProgressive]

36. I like her a lot. NT

[Gothmog]

37. Not going to happen

[lark]

38. Not going to happen.

She was acerbic and irritating and as far as I know has sponsored nothing of value as a Senator. Funny, I actually like her better now than I did before the debate but will never trust her for one second. If someone shows me who they are, I trust that and she showed her hand.

[Trumpocalypse]

39. Nothing of Value?

I guess you don't think the healthcare of 9/11 first responders is of value.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/kirsten-gillibrand-james-zadroga-september-11

[lark]

40. Did she propose this or just was a supporter?

Really don't know and am curious. Still, will never support her during the primaries. Will vote for her if it's her or drumpmf, but she is still near the bottom of the list.

[Trumpocalypse]

41. She was a sponsor

Read the article.

[treestar]

85. That's also a fairly easy issue

Who is against 911 responders?

[lark]

86. And she's from NY

so not a lot of gumption needed to support that bill.

[JI7]

87. republicans

[Wounded Bear]

42. Whatever...nt

[BannonsLiver]

43. No.

[trueblue2007]

45. NO .... She was horrible in last nights debate. She should NOT be in the next debate in my opiion

and neither should the other folks polling at 1-2 percent.

[MicaelS]

46. Abso-fucking-lutely not.

Unless of course she wins the nomination by some miracle. Or gets chosen VP.

[Paladin]

47. No. (nt)

[W_HAMILTON]

48. No.

[George II]

50. She was rude at the debate last night, butting in to many questions that weren't directed to her.

[Miles Archer]

51. She has a lot to learn about conducting herself appropriately on a debate stage

What she has to say was overshadowed by the manner in which she chose to say it.

As with everyone else on the debate stage, if she secures the nomination, I'll vote for her.

[kimbutgar]

52. No never

Al Franken was a great senator who she destroyed to raise her reputation


Never ever will I support her.

[ValidateThis]

58. KG is a more effective senator

than Al Franken ever was.

She’s my senator. She’s terrific. Her NY job is secure and she will be a power broker in this election.

Unbelievable misogyny in a lot of comments above.

[LovingA2andMI]

60. Wonder do some of these comments cross the line....

It surely seems like it. Also, Gillibrand was decent last night and deserves another chance at Debate 3 or 4. Hope she gets that opportunity.

[democratisphere]

55. She was desperately trying to talk over everrbody all debate long.

Time to throw in the towel, this campaign is done.

[Mme. Defarge]

56. She needs vocal coaching.

The thought of listening to a POTUS who sounds like that - nasal and grating - makes me shudder.

[BeyondGeography]

59. I don't hate her but the Senate is her ceiling

And she should send David Patterson flowers weekly because he’s the only reason she got that far. Simply put, she doesn’t connect with people. Her mind is siloed. There is no vision, no overarching themes. Just a lot of answers that she deems right for the moment.

[ReformedGOPer]

66. Sorry, no.

[Horizens]

77. No

No

[NanceGreggs]

78. Nope. n/t

[Pisces]

79. She was terrible end of story

[Generic Brad]

95. She intentionally kneecapped a fellow Democratic senator for personal political gain

Anyone who does that - and I mean anyone - automatically loses my support in the primaries. This week I have observed other candidates doing similar things and I am appalled that behavior is being celebrated here (sadly I have expected to see a combination of foreign ratfuckery, domestic trolling, paid operatives, and true believers manifest here). It is a character issue to me that provides insight on whether they are going to fight for all of us or are in it mainly for themselves.

The general election is a different animal because I recognize what we are up against.

Gillibrand's calculated and manufactured attack on Franken lost me before the primary season even began. I am looking for a candidate who calls on us to aspire to our higher angels, not give in to our base desires for blood lust, power and revenge.

[Trumpocalypse]

97. What personal gain?

Do you hold Warren, Booker, Harris and Sanders to the same standard?

[Generic Brad]

99. What personal gain you ask? Raw power.

In answer to your other question - yes. I hold all Democratic candidates to the same standard.

I get one primary vote on Super Tuesday next year and that will be cast for the candidate who I think demonstrates they have the strongest moral compass. We have a long way to go until then and I believe the choice will be clear for me by then.

We are up against a rapist, racist, traitor. He needs to be knocked out with all the righteous force we can muster. Throwing haymakers at an undeserving ally is energy aimed at the wrong target.

[Trumpocalypse]

108. Raw power? Lol

This the US Senate not the old Roman Senate where if you knocked off a colleague you’d get all their lands..

Please point out what tangible personal gain you were referring to and be sure to include links to credible sources that prove your accusation.

[Generic Brad]

110. The presidency is the prize

Not 5he senate.

[Trumpocalypse]

111. Makes no sense

Again this isn’t the Roman Empire where if you knock off enough of your rivals you can become emperor.

Why just admit that you made a ridiculous and untrue comment that you got called on instead of grasping at straws.

[Generic Brad]

114. Your personal attack and misrepresentation of what I stated saddens me

I do not like insults or infighting. That is not ridiculous nor is it untrue.

[Trumpocalypse]

115. Then prove it

And be sure to include links to credible sources that support what you wrote.

[suegeo]

96. No. She blew her chance to expose Roger Stone

and LeeAnn Tweedon's BFF Sean Hannity.

Al Franken didn't do anything wrong.

If Gillibrand would have been more level-headed, she could have exposed Roger Stone's rat fu#king. Perhaps ridding us of that parasite Stone sooner.

If Gillibrand had even conducted basic background checks on the accusers, who knows what the FBI background checks might have turned up? Free condo on a tawdry golf course in Florida? Rubels in a bank account in Cyprus? Free condo in the death trap that is the puppet's tower in NYC?

We will never know because she didn't investigate anything. Or asked the FBI to do basic background checks. Or allowed an ethics committee to examine the charges.

We lost a good senator and a chance to nail some terrible GOPee henchmen.

[Trumpocalypse]

98. Senators do not order the FBI

They have no power to ask the FBI to do background checks on anyone, especially when no crime has been committed. While Tweeden has no credibility, there were 7 other women who accused Franken including an Army vet and an ex Democratic staffer. Is there any evidence that they were connected to Stone or were lying.

Also, do hold Sanders, Harris, Booker and Warren to the same standard?

[liberaltrucker]

100. If she's our nominee, I'll vote for her.

That is all.

[pressbox69]

112. Yes.

[Clash City Rocker]

101. Don't hate her, don't love her, probably won't vote for her, but who knows at this point

I think it’s unfair to dump all the Al Franken mess on her. She seems to have done some good work in the senate. I thought she had a couple good points in the debate but didn’t really stand out. I imagine the money will run out for her, and she’ll go back to the senate, if only because so many candidates are inspiring people more than she has.

It would be nice if we could stop sniping at our own candidates, not blame them for trying to be heard and make a name for themselves. Let us unite against our common foe, for if we don’t hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately.

[pattyloutwo]

102. Thanks for your post

I agree the hate is sexist without people even realizing it. I didn’t like the interrupting from several candidates but thought that she was singled out for receiving the most criticism.

[bitterross]

103. No. I'm quite happy disliking her.

Not going to stop.

[handmade34]

105. yes... she

should stay a Senator...

[donkeypoofed]

106. No, and you can't make me

While she did well in the debate, I still hold it against her and always will - until Al comes back to the Senate, which he won't . So, yeah, never gonna not blame her. Sorry.

[USALiberal]

107. No, she wanted to look like a "leader", it back fired. nt

[Johnyawl]

109. NO

Not now, not ever.

[pressbox69]

113. I miss Al Franken

I hope the country can do without him during this, one of the most important periods of World history. Somehow I don't feel that some of the voices on stage the other night make up for the loss of Franken's.