Before attacking Kamala Harris for "mischaracterizing" Biden's views, please look at what she said

[StarfishSaver]

Following is the entire exchange on the topic of race between Sen. Harris and VP Biden. There is nothing in it in which Harris in any way mischaracterized Biden's comments about working with segregationist senators or his record on busing:

Senator Kamala Harris of California sharply criticized former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. at the Democratic presidential primary debate on Thursday, talking about her personal history with busing and calling his recent recollections of working with segregationist senators “hurtful.”

Below is a transcript of the exchange.

[Here are the highlights of the debate.]

HARRIS: And I’m going to now direct this at Vice President Biden. I do not believe you are a racist. And I agree with you when you commit yourself to the importance of finding common ground, but I also believe — and it is personal, and it was actually very hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputation and career on the segregation of race in this country. And it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing. And you know, there was a little girl in California who was a part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bused to school every day. And that little girl was me. So I will tell you that, on this subject, it cannot be an intellectual debate among Democrats. We have to take it seriously. We have to act swiftly. As attorney general of California, I was very proud to put in place a requirement that all my special agents wear body cameras and keep those cameras on.

BIDEN: A mischaracterization of my position across the board. I did not praise racists, that is not true. Number one. Number two, if we want to have this campaign litigated on who supports civil rights and whether I did or not, I’m happy to do that. I was a public defender. I didn’t become a prosecutor. I came out and left a good law firm to become a public defender when, in fact, when, in fact, when, in fact, my city was in flames because of the assassination of Dr. King. Number one, number two. Excuse me — as the vice president of the United States, I worked with a man who, in fact, we worked very hard to see it to, we dealt with these issues. And in a major, major way. The fact is that in terms of busing, the busing, I never — you would have been able to go to school the same exact way because it was a local decision made by your city council. That’s fine. That’s one of the things I argued for, that we should not be — we should be breaking down these lines. So the bottom line here is, look, everything I have done in my career, I ran because of civil rights. I continue to think we have to make fundamental changes in civil rights. And those civil rights, by the way, include not just African Americans but the L.G.B.T.Q. communities.

HARRIS: But Vice President Biden, do you agree today, do you agree today that you were wrong to oppose busing in America then? Do you agree?

BIDEN: I did not oppose busing in America. What I opposed is busing ordered by the Department of Education. That’s what I opposed.

HARRIS: It’s a failure of states to integrate public schools in America. I was a part of the second class to integrate Berkeley, California, public schools almost two decades after Brown v. Board of Education.

BIDEN: Because your city council made that decision. It was a local decision.

HARRIS: That’s where the federal government must step in, that’s why we have the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. That’s why we need to pass the Equality Act, it’s why we need to pass the E.R.A. Because there are moments in history where states fail to preserve the civil rights of all people.

[EffieBlack]

1. This was very mild and extremely respectful.

The only mischaracteriztion in this exchange was Biden's accusation that Harris had mischaracterized him.

[DURHAM D]

9. This nt

[still_one]

2. Thank-you

[Jersey Devil]

3. It was a grandstanding stunt

She knows Biden's record on civil rights is very strong and she did it to drag herself up into the first division in the polls. It was a shameful attack imo.

[Thekaspervote]

4. +1000 didn't look very presidential

[LovingA2andMI]

19. WRONG....

Next....

[sacto95834]

51. Surprising

I guess this is what is called spin. I think this exchange between Harris and Biden to be one of the memorable moments from this debate.

Harris gave Biden a chance to explain himself, but he doubled downed on what he said and she took him down. All her points I think were fair. Biden just didn't have a response. He had to expect this to be brought up and I'm surprised he didn't have a better answer.

I think if somebody did this exchange with Trump they would have been cheering Harris on. Since it was Biden, they call this a low blow.

[LovingA2andMI]

53. Exactly!!!!

And Agreed!

[StarfishSaver]

54. Or, as someone pointed out, if just about any of the other candidates had challenged him this way,

they'd be cheered.

[EffieBlack]

56. :-)

[democratisphere]

5. Agreed. Playing the race card gets you nowhere.

[uponit7771]

11. "It was a local decision" was not and is not a good position for Biden. I love him like a play cousi

... cousin but "It was a local decision" wasn't good.

It's not going to lose him anything right now but there's no way he gets past SC telling black folk his vote on busing was right because it was a local decision.

He could just say it was a mistake I made 43321423 years ago and I love Obama and that's it

[Hoyt]

27. Agree. That was a lame excuse. Harris voice indicates it was upsetting to her, and

that’s really what matters. Those saying it was a stunt are off base, IMO.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. You summed it up nicely.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Perseus]

25. And Biden's reply is not playing the "racial card"

I have been a civil right supporter...The fact that he made the lame excuse that he did not vote for it because it was a local decision and not federal? Please, you either believe on something or you don't, and if you believe then you will support it at any level, you want to make sure to set a precedence.

With the many racial issues we are having, Harris was correct in pointing out his lack of support, you either walk the walk, or you don't.

[uponit7771]

28. +1, and all Biden has to say was that was then and I've changed and move on. He was Obama's VP

... and that carries a lot of screw up eraser for him.

His team is blowing it by not telling him to say he made a mistake and he's changed on those issues and move on.

[StarfishSaver]

35. "It's a local issue" is the excuse the Supreme Court used today to allow gerrymandering to stand

It's also the excuse segregationists used to fight off the federal court's efforts to enforce the Constitution. They also called it "states' rights."

Not a good answer.

[StarfishSaver]

34. Talking honestly about race isn't "playing the race card."

Please, just stop.

[Lordquinton]

46. Playing the race card? Am I still on DU?

As is said a lot around here, this is a bad look.

[EffieBlack]

49. Yes, you are

I am no longer surprised ...

(at least no one has accused her of being "uppity" or "not knowing her place" - yet).

[Celerity]

62. lololol at 'race card' .... what RW talking point tosh

I give that a 4 out of 5

[StarfishSaver]

6. Where was the attack?

What did she say that wasn't true or attacked Biden or accused him of being weak on civil rights?

Were you as upset when Swallwell went after Buttigieg for not firing the police chief, suggesting he was soft on police brutality?

[wasupaloopa]

7. The press and media are saying just the opposite.

[UniteFightBack]

10. Maybe she doesn't know his record she said this on Face the Nation this week:

"We cannot be ignorant of the history of race in this country and certainly anyone who is a leader should not be," Harris said on CBS's "Face the Nation,"

[Blue_true]

24. No it was not. I went to segregated schools briefly.

Kids got bussed more to maintain segregation where I grew up in the south.

[Princetonian]

55. I agree. It was a preplanned kneecapping.

Shame on her.

[EffieBlack]

61. You know this is a campaign, right?

And if it was a "kneecapping," it was because Biden was unprepared, which was an unforced error.

It's inexplicable that he didn't know that Harris was bused as a child, and especially mind-boggling that he didn't anticipate this coming up in light of his troubling record on busing, which has already been discussed in connection with his candidacy.

He could have easily parried that away. The only reason it's now an issue is that he was shockingly unprepared and gave a really bad response. That's on him, not her.

[Pachamama]

63. +1000

I am very disappointed in Harris...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. A little fact checking wouldn't hurt in this situation.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[quickesst]

8. It was a local decision....

... and Joe Biden was not the entire federal government as she is trying to characterize him.

[jcgoldie]

15. I thought Kamala went too far...

...but "It was a local decision" is a complete copout. Pretty sure that's how George Wallace justified segregation.

[uponit7771]

16. This is what the USSC is saying this day about gerrymandering !!

[StarfishSaver]

17. He was a US Senator who pushed federal anti-busing and anti-desegregation legislation

that would have affected those "local decisions," including prohibiting the use of federal funds for busing for desegregation (but not for any other purpose) and restricted the federal courts from desegregating city and suburban schools that had refused to comply with Brown v. Board of Education with desegregation redistricting measures.

[LovingA2andMI]

20. Were The Federal Government

Cooperatively Fund PUBLIC SCHOOLS, which makes it a FEDERAL ISSUE.

Thank you Kamala!

[Blue_true]

26. Locals were not going to integrate. My county fought for 15 years not to.

Harris is right, the Feds needed to step in. Biden was ok with the status quo it seems, because anyone alive then would know that locals were not going to voluntarily integrate schools, all the voluntary cases had ALREADY been done years earlier.

[quickesst]

52. I'm waiting to see....

.....how the post-debate polls shake out. I don't think Joe Biden of today would make some of the same decisions he made a long long time ago. I think people will realize that, and when those polls do come out, I think he'll still be the clear front-runner.

[Blue_true]

64. Look, Joe is a good man.

In my county the County Manager fought integration for years, but sent his own children to integrated schools once his efforts were defeated. I knew one of his children, a really nice person without a racist bone in her body. That was the way it was, decent White people, for whatever their reasons, ended up on the wrong side of the integration struggle.

[quickesst]

65. Like I said....

.... Let's wait for the polls to come out. Personally, I believe if Joe Biden is forced out of this race, chances Trump wins a second term is greatly increased. The issues people have with Joe Biden are the issues of the Joe Biden that existed 40 or 50 years ago. He is not the same man he was then, but people are determined to frame those issues as if it happened yesterday. Apparently, finding issues with the Joe Biden of today is not an easy thing, otherwise that's what they would be focusing on rather than what happened so many years ago.

[Blue_true]

66. He could have explained how he changed and why he changed instead of defending

his efforts to halt court ordered busing. I pointed out last night that in my county, there was MORE busing to maintain segregated schools. For Whites, it was voluntary. But for Blacks who were being driven to purposely inferior schools, it was forced busing.

[quickesst]

67. You are kind of proving my point...

.... with your post. Think about it. Give me something recently, say, in the last 10 years that is a disqualifying factor in Biden's bid for the presidency. Something of substance.

[hlthe2b]

12. She just put a big hole in MSM attempts to demonize Biden telling Tweety "that NO HE IS NOT DONE!"

"He's not a racist; he's had a long career of public service and on and on for 30 seconds singing his praises."

So, to me, she knows she landed a blow, but perhaps overly so and is pulling back.

It was not easy to follow what was being said during that episode and that is why, in an otherwise flawless performance, I think this was not as successful as some would suggest. I think Biden will take a hit, but not likely a big one because the confusion over what the incident was all about and the ambush nature of it will engender sympathy for him. Kamala will rise in the polls, but she would have without this episode--maybe even to a greater degree.

I appreciate what Kamala was trying to bring forth, though I think its impacts are not yet clear. I don't think older African Americans that understand and remember all the complexities of that period will be moved. Younger people, maybe. Regardless, they will both move forward.

[Drunken Irishman]

13. I think both did well in this exhange. Biden was suncere in his answer.

He could have sniped and talked down to Harris and it would have played very poorly. He didn't. Not a great moment for Biden but it could have been a lot worse. I think it helped Harris more than it hurt Biden, if that makes sense.

[onetexan]

14. Question should be: Before attacking Biden for his misconstrued comments, look at what HE said

Kamala completely took Joe's comments out of context. That's clearly wrong.

[UniteFightBack]

21. She HAS to know what he REALLY said, therefore she is doing this on purpose. nt

[onetexan]

22. yup i think so too

[Honeycombe8]

18. Harris was wrong on her facts. So altho the emotional appeal was there, she was wrong.

He didn't oppose busing in America. Far be it for me to correct the smart Harris, but she is confusing a procedure or process with integration laws. Integration was mandated and the law of the land. HOW a locality got it done was up to them. The process or procedure. Some communities stuck with the busing idea. Others did other things, I guess. For example, in my city, some black students were able to come to my school by walking from a nearby neighborhood, or taking the regular bus, or having their parents drop them off, like white kids did. They weren't "forced" to be bused. They were "allowed" to go to the school, and so could take the regular bus, if they wanted. It wasn't a long ride.

[LovingA2andMI]

30. She was 100% Right....

The Federal Government via the Department of Education cooperatively FUND K-12 Public Schools. The Federal Government DOES INDEED Play a part now and in the 1960's and 1070's to ensure that Bussing Desegregation laws were followed. Biden was in the Federal Government during this time and he had a part in this by being in the U.S. Congress - period, point, blank!

Also, someone need to tell Joe that Local City Council's in 90% of most cases have NOTHING to do with Managing or Operating Public Schools. That is what Elected School Boards do. #FYI

[StarfishSaver]

31. He sponsored and voted for federal anti-busing legislation

Among other things, his legislation prohibited the use of federal funds for busing for integration - that applied to any school district in the country, whether the busing was voluntary or court-ordered.

And as you correctly note, busing was only one method of desegregation. But when it was ordered by the court, it was in order to effectuate redistricting plans after all other methods to get the school districts to desegregate had failed. But there was no such thing as "forced busing." Busing was provided in order to get kids to school when they were assigned to different schools. There was no requirement that they actually get on a bus.

As I mentioned in another post, I lived in a predominantly white neighborhood in which the students were all assigned to a school more than two miles away from our homes, even though another school was closer. But it had a higher concentration of black students and the district didn't want to send all those white kids there. So we were bused to the school that was much farther away, not for purposes of desegregation but to foster continued segregation based on the historically segregated housing patterns. None of the white parents complained about their kids having to go to school so far away from home.

The "forced busing" argument was invoked by the 1970s versions of "death panel" proponents and MAGA types who lie about immigrants being responsible for committing most of the crimes in the country. Busing was a remedy imposed ONLY after all else failed when school districts refused to desegregate their schools through simpler means. And busing plans were very limited and restricted. But anti-desegregation forces who'd been fighting integration all along ginned it up into something it wasn't, freaked out white parents and caused all manner of division and difficulties.

Unfortunately, Biden pandered to this sentiment. Harris gave him a chance to distance himself from it and he chose not to. That, in my view, was a big mistake, especially if the party wants to build support and enthusiasm of the African-American community.

[Honeycombe8]

33. I'm not reading that long post, but yes, he helped do away w/mandate about HOW integration...

about HOW integration was done. Leaving it to states and local communities. It did NOT prohibit busing.

Harris didn't know her local community did the busing, which I guess stopped at some point. She thought it was federally mandated to stop.

I agree with not mandating busing. If it's not mandated, why would the fed pay for it? The states segregated their schools w/o the fed paying for it. They needed to integrate their schools w/o the fed paying for the situation the states caused in the first place.

[StarfishSaver]

37. If you're not "reading that long post" you really shouldn't respond to it all.

It contains information that you might find useful if you're going to argue about this topic. But if reading a few substantive paragraphs in a discussion you're engaging in is too much trouble, well

(Just in case the following isn't too long to bother reading ...)

But she never said busing in her community was federally mandated. But the desegregation the busing facilitated WAS federally mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court.

On the other hand, Biden sounded completely out of touch arguing that the federal government should have no role in enforcing desegregation but should leave it all up to local communities. Which is great for those communities that voluntarily participated. But in too many cases, local communities retrenched and refused to comply with the Constitution and it was indeed the responsibility of the federal courts to step in and mandate compliance.

[Honeycombe8]

39. I read the high points. We disagree, and you don't understand...

you don't understand the difference between mandating DOING something and mandating the procedure to do something.

Integration was the law. How a community did it was up to them. That's pretty darn fair, and the way things are usually done in this democracy.

There were different ways to effect integration. Not all localities were the same. It was hard on the kids, in particular.

My city did some busing, but for the most part, didn't have to. Black kids lived near enough some white schools to take the regular bus, like the white kids did, or walk, or have their parents drop them off. Busing was unnecessary for those schools.

We had only one school that pretty far south, far from any black area. I think kids were bused there, but word got around the kids didn't like it. They had to wake up early, and take a really early bus.....and take the same bus back. Long bus ride. The city finally stopped doing that.

The main problem was housing...opening neighborhoods up to multiple races.

We have to agree to disagree. But I can assure you that most people don't regard removing busing as a mandate as a problem for Biden. (Note that I am NOT a Biden supporter.)

[StarfishSaver]

42. Actually, I understand this VERY well

And I agree that busing isn't - or shouldn't be - a problem for Biden. The problem is that he doesn't seem able to articulate or defend his position without sounding completely tone-deaf. Explaining that he opposed the federal government's use of a desegregation remedy on the grounds of "local control" is not a good answer. At all. And accusing a fellow candidate of attacking and mischaracterizing him when she did nothing of the kind is not a good look for him.

One of Biden's problems, as I see it, is an inability to just admit he's made an error, apologize where appropriate, correct it and move on. He took a lickin tonight and it probably smarts - I hope he learns from it and figures out how to do better moving forward.

[Honeycombe8]

44. His answer was great and accurate. I agree with it, too. As did the country at the time.

I don't know if you're old enough to have lived through segregation and integration, but you can't look back at something with today's eyes.

We agree to disagree. He did not oppose busing in America, period. But I was against busing, as a kid in school at the time. It was hard on the kids. All kids of all races. Easy for the grownups.

[StarfishSaver]

47. I not only lived through it at the time

but a relative of mine was directly involved in the legal fight over busing and desegregation across the country, so it was a part of my daily life in real time. And I have since been involved with and taught this issue in depth.

That said, we'll have to just agree to disagree.

[uponit7771]

32. "local issue", "states rights" etc was a cop out. The issue is his vote was wrong then and there

... would be no way Biden is going to get past SC telling black folk he'd make the same vote today.

NO WAY !!

He should just say he was wrong and that being the VP of the first black president taught him a lot and move on ...

The USSC just said today gerrymandering was a local issue ... that was a cop out too (and a lie by Roberts).

[Honeycombe8]

36. I disagree. The law was integration. Busing was just one of several ways to effect integration.

If her busing stopped, it was her local community or state that stopped it. Not the fed. She was mistaken.

There were other ways to integrate besides busing. It was up to the states and communities to determine the best way for them.

So Biden won that one, IMO. He didn't work on doing away w/busing.

[uponit7771]

38. "It was up to the states and communities " what about the states and communities that wouldn't

... desegregate !?

So Biden won that one, IMO. He didn't work on doing away w/busing.

You're saying Biden can make it past SC claiming he'd make the same vote today on not supporting federal funds for busing?

tia

I don't think so, its an on off thing ... Biden could just plainly say he made a mistake and move on.

[StarfishSaver]

40. She wasn't mistaken. She never claimed that federal law required busing in her community

She talked about being bused and said his record on busing at the time troubled her. It was HE who brought up federal mandates, saying that busing in her community was a local matter and said the federal government should have played no role in busing, which was weirdly similar to a states' rights argument. The federal government got involved in busing - the federal courts mandated it and the Department of Education funded it (because they helped fund ALL busing for children, regardless the purpose) - because the federal government has a responsibility to enforce anti-discrimination laws:

HARRIS: And you know, there was a little girl in California who was a part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bused to school every day. And that little girl was me ... But Vice President Biden, do you agree today, do you agree today that you were wrong to oppose busing in America then? Do you agree?

BIDEN: I did not oppose busing in America. What I opposed is busing ordered by the Department of Education. That’s what I opposed.

HARRIS: It’s a failure of states to integrate public schools in America. I was a part of the second class to integrate Berkeley, California, public schools almost two decades after Brown v. Board of Education.

BIDEN: Because your city council made that decision. It was a local decision.

HARRIS: That’s where the federal government must step in, that’s why we have the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. That’s why we need to pass the Equality Act, it’s why we need to pass the E.R.A. Because there are moments in history where states fail to preserve the civil rights of all people.

[Honeycombe8]

41. She was wrong. As Biden said, he did not oppose busing in America. Period.

She was mistaken, as you can tell from her deer-in-the-headlights expression when he informed her what he had really done, and that it was her City Council that had bused her, and nothing he did interfered with that.

[StarfishSaver]

45. What he did WOULD have interfered with that - that's just the point

For example, he supported legislation that pulled all funding for busing for desegregation from Harris' school district and every other school district across the country, regardless whether the local government was doing it voluntarily. How is that not interfering with the busing program her school district had instituted?

He also supported legislation that prohibited local school districts receiving federal money (all of them) from using certain measures to desegregate their schools, even if it was being done voluntarily.

And under his "federal government shouldn't get involved" position, if a local school district refused to desegregate its schools, the federal government should have no say in it and should not have the ability to mandate desegregation.

He was wrong. That doesn't make him racist or bad or anti-civil rights. But he was wrong. Harris gave him a chance to own up to it and explain why he no longer believes that, but he doubled down and now people are accusing HER of mischaracterizing his position, when she was dead on.

[StarfishSaver]

43. Yes. This.

It may be lost on younger people or white people. But black people who were around then don't like the sound of that at all because they know what it meant. I don't think that's how Biden meant it, but he seems to have difficulty hearing how things he says sound to other people.

[Blue_true]

23. Harris is right.

Briwn was handed down on May 18 or 19, 1954. My southern school district integrated schools in August 1969 after losing court fight after court fight and finally being cornered by a pro integration new democratic governor who threatened to cut off funds to all school systems that did not integrate. Harris lived that nonsense, Biden DID NOT!!!

[Hoyt]

29. Exactly.

[EffieBlack]

48. A black woman had the temerity to challenge a white man about race on national television

So she's going to be attacked, even by Democrats, as sure as night follows day.

If it had been Beto or Mayor Pete or Bernie who said the exact same thing (except, of course, the part about being a little black girl), people would be rhapsodic in their ecstasy about how woke they are, how they spoke truth to power, blah blah blah.

But it wasn't Beto or Mayor Pete or Bernie. It was a black woman who did it, so we're looking at a while different reaction.

[crazytown]

50. It was a black woman who did it

who can't claim the privilege of being a peer.

[Princetonian]

57. I am a woman of color and I find your characterization distasteful.

Pointing fingers at me or anyone else on this thread and reducing our criticism to nothing more than a racist + sexist attack is plain wrong.

[EffieBlack]

58. Ok

We have different opinions about this.

[FreeState]

68. This

The fact that she had to ask to answer the question as the only black woman on the stage is just maddening to me.

What really turned me off Biden was when Harris answered from personal and emotional place he ignored it and dismissed her entirely. People who get it don’t treat other humans that way.