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Undecided 38%
Elizabeth Warren22%
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Bernie Sanders8%
Kamala Harris8%

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:20 PM

 

Swalwell's point when he quoted Biden's 1980-something "pass the torch" statement...

That was excellent. That was a younger Biden saying the older politicians should pass the torch to the younger ones. Swalwell said Biden was right then, and that it's time now, like it was then, to pass the torch to the younger generation.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply Swalwell's point when he quoted Biden's 1980-something "pass the torch" statement... (Original post)
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 OP
sandensea Jun 2019 #1
emulatorloo Jun 2019 #3
sandensea Jun 2019 #8
onetexan Jun 2019 #11
sandensea Jun 2019 #19
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #13
emulatorloo Jun 2019 #2
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #4
Merlot Jun 2019 #9
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #14
rusty fender Jun 2019 #44
PatSeg Jun 2019 #5
marylandblue Jun 2019 #6
Merlot Jun 2019 #7
hlthe2b Jun 2019 #10
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #15
hlthe2b Jun 2019 #18
Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #12
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #16
Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #20
Lordquinton Jun 2019 #25
Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #17
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #22
Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #24
Bradical79 Jun 2019 #21
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #23
NanceGreggs Jun 2019 #26
mahina Jun 2019 #27
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #28
Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #29
loyalsister Jun 2019 #30
Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #31
loyalsister Jun 2019 #34
Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #35
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #32
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #33
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #37
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #39
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #40
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #41
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #42
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #43
BlueStater Jun 2019 #36
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #38

Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:23 PM

1. I agree - but that's up to the primary voters to decide.

 

We can beat the Orange Beast either way - be it with a seasoned, 70-something statesman; or a young, charismatic lawmaker.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to sandensea (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:23 PM

3. Well said n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:29 PM

8. Thanks.

 

It's good to have choices.

Unlike our Republican friends, who are stuck with Jabba-the-Hutt.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to sandensea (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:34 PM

11. agree. Right now i'm sticking with Joe as he's proven and will restore US relationships w/ allies

 

right now we need a seasoned politician with the foreign experience and the steady hand to make America NORMAL again.
We need someone like Joe who can outsmart and stand up to the Idiot in the WH.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to onetexan (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:44 PM

19. We'd be fortunate as Democrats and as Americans to have him as our nominee for all those reasons

 

I haven't always agreed with his every decision - but I've always believed he should have run last time.

I realize that he couldn't for his own, very understandable reasons - but I'm convinced we would not be dealing with Idi Trumpin had he been able to do so.

It was all an unfortunate twist of fate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to sandensea (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:36 PM

13. Well, yeah...it's up to the voters to decide EVERYTHING about these candidates. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:23 PM

2. Not a great night for Swalwell though. I thought he would do better.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:24 PM

4. No, he didn't do well. Except for his "pass the torch" message. And that quote was a zinger.

 

It left Biden speechless.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:30 PM

9. I liked his passion on gun laws. We need to hear that.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Merlot (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:37 PM

14. Oh, I forgot that. Yes, he focused on that more than the others. I liked that. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:47 PM

44. Biden did say that he is still holding that torch

 

Biden also didn’t go to the spin room after the debate, saying he was tired. I think it’s time for him to pass the torch before fire goes out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:24 PM

5. It was very clever

 

but then he kept bringing it up and it lost its impact.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:24 PM

6. Unfortunately for Swalwell, ageism wasn't a bad thing back then.

 

He should take a lesson from Buttigieg, who makes the same point without trying to push anyone aside.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:28 PM

7. Agreed, Buttigieg was much more subtle about getting his digs in.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:32 PM

10. No. Came off as a smarmy asshole making an ageist attack out of desperation. SEE ME!! ME!!!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:38 PM

15. They were all saying that: "See me! Me! I'm the one!" That's why they were there. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:41 PM

18. They didn't all use a highly contrived device as this to do so. Smarmy does not begin to describe.

 

I'm glad he's in the House and on Judicial but as far as his Presidential bid--he's done. Gillibrand similarly.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:34 PM

12. It was obnoxious.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:38 PM

16. Thanks, Biden supporter.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:44 PM

20. I thought it was rude. I thought Harris did a good job in general

 

Until rhe attacks began... I predict the polls remain the same.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:20 AM

25. Agreed on the part about the polls

 

And how they show Biden steadily losing the lead as the other candidates get more exposure.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2019, 11:39 PM

17. And Salwell will surely use Biden's mind blowing statement

 

against him when he said the NRA, that is the chief lobby and writes gun laws, is not the enemy. Wow, how on Earth does he not understand the power of lobbying and controlling the narrative.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Kind of Blue (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:04 AM

22. That NRA statement by Biden is alarming. It's that "unity" thing again.

 

I really wonder if Biden is fully aware of what's been going on in recent years. He's been through a lot of personal turmoil, so maybe he hasn't been focused?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:07 AM

24. +1000!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:00 AM

21. I think Biden would be a terrible candidate

 

and I wasn't too happy with him throwing his hat into the ring. That said, I don't like saying that on a public debate stage. Comes off as kind of weak, imo. At that point, if you want the old man's top spot, you have to take it from him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #21)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:06 AM

23. I think that Swalwell clearly was making his stand at his one chance to make a mark.

 

He's about to drop out, probably. Still, he made a valid point that young Biden had once made. And JFK had made the same statement (I think it was JFK).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:26 AM

26. I like Swallwell a lot.

 

But all that statement said to me was "vote for me because I'm younger".

Very disappointing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 02:11 AM

27. I like Swallwell. I think he has good intentions.

 

It was a little painful to watch him deliver the line “We’re breaking up with Russia and making up with NATO” and watch it land with a silent thud. It was a “please clap” moment.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 02:27 AM

28. Interesting that Swalwell repeatedly swiped at Biden for being too old and gets a pass

 

(not to mention his rather rude taunts at Mayor Pete) but Harris is getting dragged all over DU for calmly and politely asking Joe about his record
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:28 AM

29. The Rules of Engagement

 

I think Dr. Robin DiAngelo's 9 of 11 Rules of White Fragility apply here.

1. Do not give me feedback on my racism under any circumstances.
If you break the cardinal rule:
2. Proper tone is crucial – feedback must be given calmly. If there is any emotion in the feedback, the feedback is invalid and does not have to be considered.

3. There must be trust between us. You must trust that I am in no way racist before you can give me feedback on my racism.

4. You must give feedback privately, regardless of whether the incident occurred in front of other people. To give feedback in front of anyone else—even those involved in the situation—is to commit a serious social transgression. The feedback is thus invalid.

5. You must be as indirect as possible. To be direct is to be insensitive and will invalidate the
feedback and require repair.

6. As a white person I must feel completely safe during any discussion of race. Giving me any
feedback on my racism will cause me to feel unsafe, so you will need to rebuild my trust by never giving me feedback again. Point of clarification: when I say “safe” what I really mean is “comfortable.”

7. Giving me feedback on my racial privilege invalidates the form of oppression that I
experience (i.e. classism, sexism, heterosexism). We will then need to focus on how you oppressed me.

8. You must focus on my intentions, which cancel out the impact of my behavior.

9. To suggest my behavior had a racist impact is to have misunderstood me. You will need to
allow me to explain until you can acknowledge that it was your misunderstanding.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Kind of Blue (Reply #29)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:06 AM

30. Yep

 

I'm glad to see that someone else appreciates her work. I see where I have gotten a lot of things wrong in the past. And she presents a good argument for ways white people can do better going forward.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:18 AM

31. Absolutely! She cleared up a lot of confusion for me.

 

This instance of raking Sen. Harris is a casebook study, imo.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Kind of Blue (Reply #31)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:17 AM

34. No doubt

 

If there was ever an urgency to dig deep and give some thought to what we missed along the way between the Civil Rights movement and electing the first Black president, it is now that those years have been opened to scrutiny with Biden's candidacy.

Since the need for the hardest work has been masked by the easy and obvious opposition to malicious bigotry, it is a rough road and the defensiveness is revealing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:30 AM

35. Indeed, loyalsister.

 

We've had years and years and years of whiteness studies and wonderfully a lot of it is from white people. I know personally of so many who need the information AND thank goodness for the Internet, lay down facts swiftly and not spiral into more decades of false narratives from the ever morphing racism disease. They pull them out like magicians pulling rabbits out of a hat. Drop the facts and let those who have ears or eyes receive them with open minds and move on, because like their conservative brethren some will not be convinced as Dr. King surmised about his fear of liberals.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:42 AM

32. Harris got into a heated, angry exchange w/Biden...

 

that lasted several minutes.

Swalwell made one soundbite comment.

To describe Harris' angry attack on Biden's record, and misrepresenting it, as "calmly and politely asking Joe about his record" is hysterical. She didn't ASK anything. She TOLD him what his record was, and got it WRONG. She misrepresented it, although I think she was really unaware of the facts.

I'll never forget her deer-in-the-headlights expression, when Joe corrected her that he did not work on banning busing in the country.

Seems to me that she & Booker made a calculated decision to attack Biden's AA support, as their only chance to increase their numbers. She did well at the debate, but to make her campaign primarily about racism was a mistake, IMO.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:05 AM

33. Are you serious?

 

Harris was not angry nor was her part of the discussion "heated." Biden got worked up, but Harris was very cool and collected and showed no anger.

Please don't invoke the "angry black woman" stereotype.

And she was right about his record. He DID oppose busing, and not just busing mandated by the Department of Education, calling it at the time, among other things, "a bankrupt concept."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:06 AM

37. He did NOT "oppose busing in America." That is, to put it nicely, false.

 

And as for the "angry black woman," I didn't say that's what she was. I merely pointed out what I saw: an angry attack on Biden, and Biden red-faced but controlled anger back at the misrepresentation.

To say she ASKED him about his record is totally false. They weren't having a discussion. She attacked his record. Only she was wrong in her facts.

Note: I am NOT a Biden supporter by a long shot. But let's not misrepresent what went down there.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #37)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:18 AM

39. Please research this. He did oppose busing all across the country

 

And used his position to try to stop it.

He didn't tell the truth when he said he only opposed the Department of Education's busing plans. He opposed busing across the board, calling it a "bankrupt concept."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #39)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:23 AM

40. He did not. He opposed a federal mandate for the procedures used to effect integration, incl. busing

 

Big difference.

Communities and states could, and did, bus in order to integrate schools. He NEVER worked to stop that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #40)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:35 AM

41. That's not true.

 

Please do some research. He opposed BUSING.

But even using your argument, are you really comfortable defending him with a state's rights argument?

Here's a hint - if a politician is embracing a state's rights argument to defend his opposition to a desegregation remedy, he's already lost the argument.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #41)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:38 AM

42. I did my research. I am correct.

 

You just have a different opinion. He opposed a federal mandate of busing as a procedure to effect integration. Much of the population agreed with that at the time.

So you thought busing should have been mandated. I get that. But to make the leap that not mandating it is the same as preventing it is a false narrative. He did not. No one did.

BTW, the southern states were already well under way integrating their schools. Many of them, like in my city, did not need to bus because we were small enough that black and white kids could take REGULAR BUSES to local schools, or walk, or have their parents drop them off.

Maybe you grew up in a metropolis, where busing for miles in the dark was necessary, in your view. Most of America was not a metropolis. Busing wasn't really necessary.

But that's a different discussion. He did not oppose and prevent "busing in America." Period. That is a false statement. I'm not going to tell you these facts again, so you go on ahead and try to argue. I'm done with this and am moving on.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #42)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:42 AM

43. Your posts suggest that you haven't actually done any research but instead are

 

relying on anecdotes and limited personal experience to inform you about a very complex issue and period in our history.

I suggest you do some research about the history of school desegregation efforts in the north to better understand how busing came to be used as a necessary but not exclusive remedy to overcome deeply entrenched segregation.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:37 AM

36. Swalwell was absolutely right to bring up Biden's age.

 

80 is way, way too old for the job. Biden's age group has been in power for decades now and things have not improved under their control. Why do they deserve more chances?

Let me put it like this: since 1993, the POTUS had been someone born in 1946 for all but eight years. We briefly got a reprieve from them with the 1961-born Obama, then we went right back to these 1940s-born presidents again.

Sorry, but generations before Biden's knew when their time in the spotlight had concluded and they wisely passed the torch to younger people. What makes Biden's generation so special that they can't do the same?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to BlueStater (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:14 AM

38. I think so. I don't think it's ageism, any more than thinking 37 is too young.

 

Some have commented that Buttigieg at 37 is too young. Not because of his inexperience w/certain things, but because 37 is just too young, as far as general life experiences goes, and not yet old enough to be wise.

This criticism of the septuagenarians is the same thing, IMO. Someone may disagree with the statement, but it's not ageism. It's not hating on someone just because of his age. It's someone's age and era of growing up and life experiences as it relates to the future and future generations.

I'm 65. I would go for a candidate who is 60, maybe 65. Okay, maybe even 70. But once you get past 70, it's time to "pass the torch" for a host of reasons.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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