Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIf Bernie or Beto had challenged Biden the way Harris did, would people here be as angry with them
as they are with her?
Think about it carefully and honestly before you answer.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to EffieBlack (Original post)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to EffieBlack (Reply #2)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
kysrsoze
(6,010 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)if they would demonize anyone we choose?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to EffieBlack (Reply #10)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Sorry, but I don't play nicely with the "of course, it doesn't matter to ME, but someone else (neighbors, customers, friends, clients, voters) are bigots and won't give them a chance, so we'd better not hire/rent to/hang out with/nominate a person of color or LGBTQ" excuse for perpetuating racism.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to EffieBlack (Reply #24)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)affecting hundreds of thousands of votes in those states; and James Comey's intervention 11 days before the election
So why are you so certain that if we had a strong registration drive and GOTV, including help with voter ID's, that several of our candidates couldn't win in those states?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to pnwmom (Reply #44)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to pnwmom (Reply #96)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,351 posts)candidate save Biden able to do this. If Trump wins those three states, he will win the presidency again. And the idea that Trump will be easy to beat is simply not true...we could lose the house as well if we move to far left...moderates gave us the house.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Without the Comey intervention,, even Hillary might have won.
And a strong GOTV could push the numbers up for any DEM. We weren't prepared for the voter suppression last time -- we should be, this time. And if we are, the several of the candidate s are strong enough to win.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
And we need to remember that in 2016 92,077,433 - 46 percent did not vote, that won't happen this time around.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tulipsandroses
(5,092 posts)And since then, Trump has not delivered for the people that did not know anything about him and decided to give him a try. I am not talking about his hard core base. We are not going to win them over. I am talking about the trump triers that honestly thought he was going to drain the swamp, thought he was a good businessman that was going to make things better.
I am not saying that this is going to be an easy fight but I don't think that Joe is the only one that can lead us to victory. We have a lot of good candidates. If he's the nominee, he has my support. I would prefer someone more progressive. I just don't buy the argument that only Joe can save us. I'm in Georgia - Look what Stacy did in GA, that was grass roots movement and I think the only reason she " lost' was due to voter suppression. No way do I think that Kemp really won.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
thesquanderer
(11,954 posts)I think Pete could do that. Could he do it best? I don't know, but I think he could do it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Considerate. He did not attack anyone.
Not every one agrees with Kamala on bussing. It destroyed our City School system because those who could afford to, both black and white moved out to the suburbs. They objected to their kids being bussed clear across town when they had close neighborhood schools.
The Congress should have poured that money into fixing Schools.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)and fix standardized testing, or stop it too!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
I saw the chemistry.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)think the anger misplaced. I would like to see her confront racists and racism with the fervor she used tonight, not re-litigate bussing with a civil rights supporter of long-standing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I understand that black women who speak up are often accused of being angry, but c'mon - calling her angry when she was calm and cool is way beyond the pale.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)black.
Ok. Maybe she confronted him with her sadness. Maybe I am angry.
I have always admired Harris and particularly her prosecutorial skills against those I view as enemies, enemies to the American ideals I feel Biden stands up for.
My mothers next door neighbor, a lawyer and professor, had a sticker on her car that read I am an angry black woman. She moved away.
I would love to see that sticker every morning now that I live in moms house.
I think whatever you call the emotion Harris expressed, she did confront Biden.
I would probably not have liked anyone to do that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I can't imagine how anyone could possibly claim she came across as angry.
And yes, I am saying that I suspect you might be perceiving her as angry because she's black - given my own vast personal experience and long-standing documented experience of many other black women who are consistently perceived as "angry" whenever we speak up for ourselves no matter how soft-spoken, calm and reserved we are, I don't think my suspicion is off-base.
Look at the video again and seriously consider why you believe she comes across as angry and whether you would attribute that characterization to a white male who evidenced the same tone, volume and demeanor.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)video. I will reflect on my own recollection and what I first noted.
I have admired her debating and speaking style in the past and did tonight.
All I can say is that as this was occurring I was commenting in a thread and now that I read my own remarks at the moment, I see that I did not mention anger. In fact I commented on her presence in a very positive way.
I must have retrospective reading in.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
58Sunliner
(4,339 posts)but you can not win when someone is determined to frame everything by racism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,351 posts)I liked Harris..(past tense). But I really don't anymore...will vote for her in a general but not in a primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)and seeing his near-helplessness to respond effectively.
It was like taking candy from a baby last night, and she seemed to show compassion while still getting the job done.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MontanaFarmer
(630 posts)It was very effective. That, coupled with several other moments (specifically her closing), made her the clear winner last night. It wasn't close. She was the only president on that stage last night, in my opinion. I love Joe Biden, but he was unprepared both to defend his record and to talk definitively about what he'd do as president. Clinging to Obama is a good strategy, but it looked like his only one last night.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)More sad. That's what made it so effective, from my POV.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)He couldn't with Anita Hill and he couldn't with Harris. And he never should have told Booker that Booker should have apologized to HIM.
All Biden had to say was something like, well, that was a long time ago, in a different era, and I understand why you were hurt, but I did the best I could at the time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
onetexan
(12,994 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)not want her to have one at all. Joe Biden had to get that hearing and to do so he had to
agree that Republicans could question her credibility, of course, and to a timeline.
So the questionedGrassley, Specter, Heflin, Simpson. Yes, they were challenging her. And Thomas, Very emotional, claimed the hearing was a high tech lynching. The Dem side were cowed.
He would go on to be only the second black person in history to be on the Supreme Court. The
Republicans knew they put Dems in a political bind in nominating him, an arch conservative, for Thurgood Marshalls seat, a civil rights legend.
Ted Kennedy was on the Dem side and very passive, detached. Of them all, Biden tried to
really test Thomas. But he was not Hills defense lawyer, in the end, he voted against Thomas. This, at the time, was not a Biden vs. Hill hearing.
Get a transcript. If you can, watch the hearing. Biden has always believed Hill and praised her courage, It was not Biden smearing Hill, trying to humiliate her. He did not call a witness as a hostile witness as he was so advised by counsel. It was a lousy process, still is. He does not owe her a personal apology. She should ask Thomas for one and Grassley. Who is still alive.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
applegrove
(118,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mcar
(42,210 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I did see that on Twitter, and it's perfect here. Thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kysrsoze
(6,010 posts)Harris nailed Biden on some bad and inexplainable inconsistencies. There goes the Harris/Biden or vice versa ticket.😄
She is extremely tough and extremely right on many things. Harris is one of my faves right now. She would destroy Dump in a debate. Nobody in these debates has called Drumpf out for being the Russian stooge that he is like she did.. And I think shell do everything in her power to make campaign promises reality.
Im still very undecided. Some great candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Liberty Belle
(9,528 posts)Remember that Obama and Clinton ran against each other and were at times harshly critical of each other, but set that aside for the good of the nation. Harris and Biden could do that, too.
Biden is not my favorite candidate but we could do far worse than that combination. I like his line about Trump stealing the soul of our country. He could bring in some of the older, white and male voters and moderates, while Harris would excite people of color, women and younger voters, and those who want to see Trump held accountable someday.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kysrsoze
(6,010 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)If Sanders or O'Rourke described an opponent's words as "hurtful," would it generate more or less support for either one as a candidate?
Would it even be deemed as "challenging" by many in the audience?
Or would it been seen as weakness, as opposed to strength?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Trump would laugh out loud at it...
Harris is at 5 points with AA voters; Biden's at 45.
Sanders is beating her with AA votes as well.
Obama she's not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kcr
(15,300 posts)Any Dem who tries to shape their candidacy based on what Trump won't laugh at will not appeal to any potential Dem voter because he will look and sound exactly like Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Has it occurred to you that black people - especially women - have had to learn how to couch everything we say whenever talking about race in terms that aren't seen as too hostile or confrontational to white people? And one of the ways we must do that is by not saying such things as "what you said was really messed up" but "I know you're not a racist and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but what you said was really hurtful to me."
And even then, THAT's not good enough and we have some people telling is that makes us seem weak and others, like a few people here, accusing is of being angry and confrontational.
Meanwhile, Bernie's yelling and waving his finger and Swalwell is ordering Buttigieg to fire his police chief and deBlasio is acting like Trump's Mini Me, but that's all fine because they're strong and/or sensitive.
So I'm not very patient with the whateversplaining about Kamala Harris's words and demeanor. And if anyone thinks she portrays weakness because she said she found something to be "hurtful," I suggest they try to go one on one for three minutes with her in a courtroom, on a debate stage or in a dark alley and see how that works out for them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)You didn't answer the questions, however...do you think strong individuals take "hurtful" words seriously? Or do you think it signals weakness?
In my world, it's weak, period. Most of us out here don't have the time or energy to spare to give a damn, because we're fighting every day to stay above water...
And when you're in a fight, your enemy doesn't give a shit about your feelings; they care whether you are stronger than they are, move faster, or hit harder.
Likewise, nobody I know gives a crap about a candidate's feelings, or whether they "feel our pain" or whatever other emotional bullshit platitudes they offer up; as far as I can tell, this time around, voters want a candidate who will fight and beat the asshole in the White House.
Who, tragically, is both an incumbent and can call on the assistance of all his little shitbird friends in Moscow, so the odds are in his favor, despite being a treasonous shitbird of galactic proportions. If we're not fighting to the death, that fat fuck is going to kill us.
I voted for Harris for AG and senator, and if she gets the nomination I'll vote for her in November.
But her effort tonight was about one thing - she's down around 5 percent with AA voters; Biden's at 45 percent.
Do the math.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)on Obama's reflected glory. People in CA know her; but not many in the rest of the country.
Most of the people I know, including the black people I know, mostly want whoever is going to beat Trump. If they stop thinking that person would be Joe Biden, then he's going to lose their support.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Yes, it was calculated and contrived. We agree there.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)Poll tested? Over prepared?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Emotional?
Yes.
Not a good look for someone who is supposed to be a tough as nails prosecutor. And I voted for her for AG and the Senate.
Maybe other find it impressive, somehow; I found it to be empty rhetoric.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)Talking about the tragedies in his life. I fear up with him, in empathy. I want a human being with feelings and emotions, as a president.
Do you think Obama was too emotional to be president? I recall many times he teared up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Biden lost a spouse and two children.
Harris had to go to grade school across town (and that town was, unless I'm mistaken, a wealthy college town in California) on a bus.
My father was a farmhand and my mother a clerk; hers were Phd students at Cal.
Boo fucking hoo.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)about being bused, she was saying it gave her a better educational opportunity. You know this, right? Otherwise your whole argument is moot.
I don't think either of us get to judge what nakes human beings emotional. Boo fucking hoo.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Harris complained that Biden's words were "hurtful", did she not?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)Where was the anger? Where were the tears?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)So, Harris complained about Biden's words and played to false emotion, suggesting the Berkeley schools in the '70s made Little Rock in the '50s look good...
And then she went off to Canada while her Phd mother taught at McGill and her father was teaching at Stanford, living in the most expensive neighborhood in Montreal, graduating from high school in that same neighborhood, went to Howard and then Hastings (UC College of Law).
The whole gambit was empty rhetoric that made her look weak and emotional. Manipulative bullshit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,912 posts)on President Obama's reflected glory.. " and it's not true.
But, by all means keep pushing your spin on Biden's decades of service.. it says more about what you're trying to do than anything about Joe Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)He made a lasting negative impression for many of us at the Anita Hill hearings. And when he last ran for President, he placed #5 in the Iowa primary and dropped out.
Obama helped improve his stature tremendously.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden
Overall, Biden had difficulty raising funds, struggled to draw people to his rallies, and failed to gain traction against the high-profile candidacies of Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton;[180] he never rose above single digits in the national polls of the Democratic candidates. In the initial contest on January 3, 2008, Biden placed fifth in the Iowa caucuses, garnering slightly less than one percent of the state delegates. Biden withdrew from the race that evening, saying "There is nothing sad about tonight. ... I feel no regret."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,912 posts)with that.. like he did nothing during those 8 years that he was President Obama's Veep.
If you had paid any attention you would know Obama put him to work and was very happy for his guidance and assistance. Jill Biden was an invaluable asset, too.. I'm sure First Lady Michelle Obama would verify that.. since she and Dr Jill Biden were also invaluable for Military Families with their Org.. Joining Forces.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Dough
(17,091 posts)No, that's not "all fine." I saw with my own eyes posts here on the DU condemning each of those very actions you describe. I personally didn't approve of any of those incidents. Why aren't any of them a bigger deal? Because Swalwell and deBlasio are not considered true contenders.
If Beto had attacked Elizabeth Warren directly during Wednesday evening's debate the way Harris went after Biden, there definitely would have been plenty of chatter around here about that.
I wouldn't call Harris's calculated confrontation of Biden "angry." I would call it forceful. She went for it. She wanted to shine in that moment. Whether or not it pays off in the polls, I respect her for it.
That said, the release of "That Little Girl Was Me" t-shirts this morning via the Harris campaign could be a misstep. It has all the appearances of capitalizing commercially on the issue. But I don't know everything about it. If the $30 per t-shirt money goes to the Harris campaign, I'm appalled. If it all goes to some sort of charity or civil rights organization, then I'd get behind it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)True that...
Cripes, if Buttigieg had said it, one can imagine the ration of shit he would have received?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Yeah; he's a gay war veteran ... in Indy-fucking-ana.
I can't even imagine the self-discipline it takes for him not to react to this shit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
58Sunliner
(4,339 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,128 posts)Harris was extremely strong without angry shouting and flailing arms. A cool cucumber with a steel spine. That's the best way to do politics in my opinion.
Yesterday I changed my candidate preference from Harris to Warren but now I'm dithering. Even though I don't know much about her, Harris instantly attracted me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)warmth.
On her: passionate and personal. Appealing etc. I find nothing in my comments as I was observing but positive notes on her style. So...
Yes, those of us who dont like her confronting Biden are probably spinning her now along with each other while the media is spinning Biden and heralding her style.
Could the issue not be an issue with a black woman and be an issue with her getting a good shot in at Biden?
Can I please be allowed to dislike that!?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)A few words in a debate will not sink a candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,128 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)the way Harris is being criticized for "confronting" Biden and doing it as a "pre-planned" manner - as if she should behave at a presidential debate like she's at a debutante tea party while the men are playing rockem-sockem.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Like it or not, these are the facts
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Bernie gets called sexist here for not combing his hair. People are literally sifting through sound-bites in search of anything to be offended by when it comes to Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)I don't have a horse in that particular race. I'm more like:
On edit: Neither are my first choice by far, but if I had to choose between the two I'd prefer Harris.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)But I fully concur in what you wrote. Bernie would have been dragged over hot coals here had he been the one who said it. I just logged on here this morning, maybe Kamala is being dragged over hot coals herself - haven't read enough to know yet. If so a lot of that, IMO, would flow from intrinsic sexism. With Bernie it would more be a function of those who adamantly oppose him finding new grounds to lash out at him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sop
(9,946 posts)would her supporters be angry with him? That program threatened parents of truant children with jail time for a nonviolent, low-level offense. She was criticized by many in the black community for "creating another pipeline to the criminal justice system."
Harris defended the policy as "a way to push the parents of of chronically truant kids to get them to school." But, a video in which "Harris laughs as she calls the idea 'controversial' and boasts about scaring a mom with the prospect of going to jail" didn't help her in the black community.
I suppose attacking Harris from the left, to drive down her support among the black community, would have been justified. After all, isn't that what Harris was trying to accomplish when she brought up Biden's busing position?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)her experience is genuine, lived. It is very difficult to defend oneself when confronted on an issue
with personal narrative in a public situation. Disarming.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Raine
(30,540 posts)and hope he does if she pulls out an old issue like busing to use against him again.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)his breath away. It reminded me of a daughter-father scene in a drama when the daughter after all those painful, pent up years tells her father how much he hurt that little girl.
I dont think any scene like this has ever been played out in a political debate.
It would be hard enough for an actual father, expecting his daughters moment, to field all this, but I mean hes just on the debate stage with herdebatingnot in the family living room anticipating family drama.
Nor is he an actor who knew the role he was going to play for Ms. Harriss star turn. Or the script.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StocktonNative
(120 posts)Bernie and Warren are progressives. Beto not so much, but still people would be angry.
I although like the fact that Harris came out strong and threw punches. It's about being the top dog going against a rude puzzy neck racist who will character assassinate your ass.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)This has nothing to do with gender, so quit trying to make it different.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KayF
(1,345 posts)much more, I think.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueTsunami2018
(3,461 posts)He didnt praise, coddle or defend the reputations of the scumbag segregationist Senators. It was based on bullshit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,912 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mike Nelson
(9,903 posts)
Harris is helping Biden... if he's ready to get on the stage and defeat Crooked Donald, it will show. He should expect more of this, from Harris and others.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheFarseer
(9,308 posts)But Bernie?! Are you kidding me? Most people here are furious everyday he doesn't drop out of the race.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Raine
(30,540 posts)because she knows darned well he's not a racist, she even said so but then went on to insinuate that his actions were! I would be just as mad if Beto or Bernie had done that to Biden or any other Democratic candidate!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MFM008
(19,776 posts)Its about damn time a woman got pissed off without having to consult a man or anyone else.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)getting attacked on DU because she is a black woman that confronted a white man. Yeah OK.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)Harris even said, EACH of us have to defend our record.
If Biden is your chosen candidate then you're most likely not going to see what she did as fair.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)She had integrity and judgement. I thought she didnt play out of a personal political deck regardless of what voting group did the criticizing. But hey, no politician can get anywhere without
strategizing, schmoozing, or playing it.
And gosh knows Obama really got it. Took down a good man, Reverend Wright, and a Catholic priest to try to get him. And then Hilary. Guess the top is never immune.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LibFarmer
(772 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)I dont see him jumping up in the polls... do you??
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Alpeduez21
(1,739 posts)She pointed out what is record is and the consequences of that. She didn't attack him, she didn't belittle him, she didn't emasculate him.
Biden hasn't apoligized for ANY of his past behavior. He has steadfastly defended copitulating to racists, mysogyny and anti abortionists.
If he doesn't like having his record pointed out he probably should call it quits. I know you were vice president under Obama, I know you have been in the senate, like, forever. I know you have repeatedly cowtowed to the right during that time. If Biden and his ilk don't like having his record questioned, which is what she did, he and they are in the wrong business.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(44,761 posts)"as defined by Casey" Nothing like a Dem candidate suggesting more burdens be put on women who need or want an abortion. I expect that shit from Republicans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
quickesst
(6,280 posts).....beforehand, then probably not, but.....
I would be hard-pressed to put my faith in someone who's first volley pre debate towards Joe Biden was a lie. Apparently, a lot of people have no moral or ethical qualms about promoting this untruth.
, "Praising and coddling individuals who made it their life work and built their reputation off of segregation of the racists in the United States. Thats a problem. I would not be a member of the United States Senate if those men that he praised had their way. I wouldnt." Kamala Harris
When you start out with dishonesty, it's hard for the truth to catch up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Please be specific.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... I can spell it out any plainer for you. Joe Biden never praised nor coddled any segregationist. He worked with them to get some things done , but did not agree nor was he complicit in any of their racist ideals. Prove that he praised and coddled them. Please be specific.
"Praising and coddling individuals who made it their life work and built their reputation off of segregation of the racists in the United States. Thats a problem. I would not be a member of the United States Senate if those men that he praised had their way. I wouldnt." Kamala Harris
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
quickesst
(6,280 posts)Going on about seven hours, and still no reply from the OP.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)There is a little, but most Biden supporters I've seen seem to understand the exchange and understand her need to do it. I currently have Biden as my number two and Harris as my number three. Love both of them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)to start with. Those people have been pointing that out from the very beginning.
So, it wouldn't matter who brought up those challenges, really. They've already been brought up here multiple times.
Thing is: It's not really up to us on DU. It's up to Democratic primary voters all across this country. Many of those don't have the same priorities some DUers have. Many of those just want someone to knock Trump out of the White House. That's the top priority for many, many Democratic voters. Most of them don't post here.
Really, most Democrats don't post here. Most have never heard of Democratic Underground. I make a point of mentioning DU to the many Democrats I talk to. Not one of them has ever heard of this website before I mentioned it, and I don't know of any who have come here after I recommended the site.
Voters. They matter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)I do think the debate hurt us with all our candidates vowing to give undocumented folks health care...sure it s the right thing to do... but not popular with average voters...neither is busing for that matter...or reparations or MFA (if all other insurance is gone). Our candidates should consider what will happen in a general. Running on detailed policy is always a mistake in a primary...gives the other side a line of attack.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I don't think it's a gender issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I doubt most people are. The noisy minority is not, and never is, the quiet majority.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)All I saw here was praise.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indygram
(2,113 posts)And some here acted like Beto had committed a horrible crime yet some of the same people were celebrating when Castro was dishonest about section 1325 and attacked Beto and continued to interrupt him when he tried to respond. Hell, for months Beto has gotten attacked, insulted, dismissed and when he comes out with incredible policy plans or has a giant success it's all but ignored or misrepresented. I have never seen a candidate get treated so unfairly in my entire 50+ years.
I'm not angry with Kamala at all. I wasn't angry with Booker either. Biden is not a good candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)She won't take the rust belt without which we have no path to winning the general (WI, MI and PA)...the t-shirt thing and the photo ready to go...just infuriates me... she attacked on a 50 year old deeply unpopular program...and it was pre-planned. What are supposed to run on busing now? I would prefer to win a general personally. Biden is not a racist...her behavior has removed her from my list of who I will support in a primary. Of course I would support her in a general...but could she win? I don't think so. I predict she will not get the outcome she expects...the polls will not move much or maybe even at all...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,813 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)This place would self-implode.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ace Rothstein
(3,109 posts)DU would be on fire if Bernie challenged Biden like that. He'S nOt EvEn A dEmOcRaT!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Quackers
(2,256 posts)Another point for her was the food fight comment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LexVegas
(6,005 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Claritie Pixie
(2,199 posts)To me, she had rehearsed it and when she found an opening went for it Did not seen authentic.
Now maybe that's how the game is played to get attention but I don't agree with it. Not from anyone this go round.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)And been wrong in their facts? Absolutely.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ecstatic
(32,566 posts)I'm not angry at all. I have mixed emotions on this, especially because Kamala is among my top 3 candidates. I can't speak for others, but in my opinion, she was WINNING the debate and that scene wasn't necessary. Just 3 minutes earlier, she said Americans don't want to see a food fight and then she brought the biggest attack of the night.
So, anyway, when she pivoted into the attack, my take was, she better knock him out COMPLETELY because she cannot mortally wound him then have him go into the GE (with a bunch of people convinced that Biden is a racist). Unfortunately, she didn't knock him out completely (although the story is still developing and things could easily change by tomorrow).
MY NUMBER ONE CONCERN IS GETTING tRUMP AND REPUBLICANS OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE/CONGRESS. PERIOD.
trump's judge picks are setting us back DECADES. He is stacking the courts with right wing judges as I type. So anything--and I repeat---ANYTHING or ANYONE that appears to make it less likely that trump is removed is going to irritate me. So that's where I stand now. Scared and concerned about next fall. That being said, if everyone jumps away from Biden to Kamala, I'd be happy. But if they don't move to Kamala and Biden is the nominee, then we're all going to have to figure out how to convince millennials that Biden is not a racist.
Had the busing challenge come from Bernie or Beto, I would have been extremely irritated, because, from my perspective, it would look like they were trying to manipulate the emotions of the black voters who support Biden (without concern about how it would affect the GE, etc.).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
58Sunliner
(4,339 posts)I think that she crafted the moment, and then her campaign releases a t-shirt minutes later. She then goes on TV the next morning, and says she didn't know about the t-shirt and quickly changes the subject. I would be disappointed in Buttigeig if he did the same thing about his experiences with homophobia. Questioned a candidate about his position on gay rights, told a sad story about how a child was threatened and that that young boy was him. Then he releases a t-shirt ten minutes later with a picture of himself as a child and tries to make money off of his gotcha moment. I know he would not do it, because he knows he is not the only one who has suffered and that it would be beneath him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden