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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:13 AM Jun 2019

If Bernie or Beto had challenged Biden the way Harris did, would people here be as angry with them

as they are with her?

Think about it carefully and honestly before you answer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
139 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If Bernie or Beto had challenged Biden the way Harris did, would people here be as angry with them (Original Post) EffieBlack Jun 2019 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #1
I think a Biden-Pete ticket would have difficulty energizing key voters in our base EffieBlack Jun 2019 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #3
Who do you think would "overly energize his base"? EffieBlack Jun 2019 #10
They can find a way to be angry at or hate anyone. The will try to demonize any challengers. kysrsoze Jun 2019 #21
Then why suggest avoiding picking someone who would energize his base EffieBlack Jun 2019 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #23
In other words, we must pick a straight white man EffieBlack Jun 2019 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #30
We only lost in 2016 by 80K votes in 3 states, despite massive voter suppression pnwmom Jun 2019 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #59
That's absolutely true. And that's why I think it is ridiculous to think Biden is our only hope n/t pnwmom Jun 2019 #96
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #99
Right... and who can win those states back is the question...MI, WI and PA... I don't see any Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #88
There's zero reason to think that Biden is the only person who could get those 80K votes. pnwmom Jun 2019 #97
Exactly Andy823 Jun 2019 #94
This!!!!!!10000 times this!!!!!!! tulipsandroses Jun 2019 #135
I think Biden-Anyone wins every state that HRC won. What VP helps in MI/WI/PA and maybe elsewhere? thesquanderer Jun 2019 #86
Made Pete look more True Blue American Jun 2019 #39
Yes - fix schools and stop funding chartered schools!!! floppyboo Jun 2019 #139
Yes mdelaguna Jun 2019 #55
I have no problem with strong women. I am disappointed in her angry confrontation because I emmaverybo Jun 2019 #4
When did she get angry? EffieBlack Jun 2019 #6
She was not calm. And I am offended that you insinuate I am reading in anger because she is emmaverybo Jun 2019 #9
She was very calm. There was absolutely nothing "angry" about her tone or demeanor EffieBlack Jun 2019 #12
I edited my initial response. I would appreciate your reading it. I do not tonight want to see the emmaverybo Jun 2019 #20
I don't know what your original response was, 58Sunliner Jun 2019 #133
True, Very true, very true. NT emmaverybo Jun 2019 #134
I thought she was angry and played the victim somewhat...not a good idea when you run for president. Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #89
+1000 Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #100
I actually got the impression that she was sympathetic toward him while pushing him into a corner, Chemisse Jun 2019 #78
She cut him, badly. MontanaFarmer Jun 2019 #84
I saw her as emotional but not angry mcar Jun 2019 #80
Agree! True Blue American Jun 2019 #40
Why is it so hard for Biden to make a simple apology? That's all it would have taken. pnwmom Jun 2019 #46
he shouldn't apologize because he said nothing wrong. The wrong is Kamala mischaracterized his words onetexan Jun 2019 #81
Indeed Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #101
No reason to apologize to Hill. He voted against Thomas. She wanted the hearing. Republicans did emmaverybo Jun 2019 #93
Here is a tweet on the matter: applegrove Jun 2019 #5
Thanks for this! EffieBlack Jun 2019 #7
That is a great response! mcar Jun 2019 #82
Excellent! NastyRiffraff Jun 2019 #118
The only negative thing I could say is her points reach way back. That said... kysrsoze Jun 2019 #8
Don't rule it out yet. Liberty Belle Jun 2019 #11
True. I still like Joe Biden. He's a good guy, deep down. Its going to be an interesting primary. kysrsoze Jun 2019 #19
If Sanders or O'Rourke described an opponent's words as "hurtful," would it generate RHMerriman Jun 2019 #13
Good point (nt) mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #16
Trump would laugh out loud at it... RHMerriman Jun 2019 #38
Trump will mock anything any Dem will say kcr Jun 2019 #60
You're pretty hung up on that word, aren't you? EffieBlack Jun 2019 #17
You didn't answer the questions, however... RHMerriman Jun 2019 #42
Harris didn't have the spotlight on her for being Obama's VP for 8 years. She's not been getting by pnwmom Jun 2019 #48
Yes, it was calculated and contrived. We agree there. RHMerriman Jun 2019 #49
But was she shrill? mcar Jun 2019 #83
No to the above... RHMerriman Jun 2019 #120
Again, Biden gets emotional on a regular basis mcar Jun 2019 #122
Biden lost a spouse and two children RHMerriman Jun 2019 #123
You apparently missed the fact that she wasn't complaining mcar Jun 2019 #129
Harris complained that Biden's words were "hurtful", did she not? RHMerriman Jun 2019 #130
Yes, she did mcar Jun 2019 #136
So, Harris complained about Biden's words and played to emotion... RHMerriman Jun 2019 #138
You keep saying that ".. Biden is getting by Cha Jun 2019 #50
Before he was Obama's VP, he had a fraction of the visibility he has now. pnwmom Jun 2019 #53
By all means keep trying to smear Biden Cha Jun 2019 #54
+1000. n/t pnwmom Jun 2019 #47
Sometimes you make great points, sometimes you mischaracterize True Dough Jun 2019 #72
The t-shirt thing is very Trumpian redstateblues Jun 2019 #95
They could not get away with it. NT emmaverybo Jun 2019 #114
True that... RHMerriman Jun 2019 #121
Oh, Gawd. Not in his character, but...whoah. NT emmaverybo Jun 2019 #124
Yeah; he's a gay war veteran ... RHMerriman Jun 2019 #126
This particular theme just never gets old ... (nt) mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #14
LOL. Yawn. 58Sunliner Jun 2019 #137
People are always complaining about Democrats' spines. betsuni Jun 2019 #15
I've seen her called too weak and angry and confrontational EffieBlack Jun 2019 #18
My comments on Bernie: "over-aggressive, wound too tight, abrasive personality, devoid of emmaverybo Jun 2019 #28
We have a perfect right to disagree. True Blue American Jun 2019 #41
Thank you. NT emmaverybo Jun 2019 #45
Women aren't allowed to do normal politics. betsuni Jun 2019 #61
You mean like EffieBlack Jun 2019 #64
Yes. betsuni Jun 2019 #65
Yes, that is true! It is also something prez Obama knew and played it out very well Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #103
Bernie, yes absolutely. redgreenandblue Jun 2019 #25
What about you? EffieBlack Jun 2019 #26
Me? I'm certainly not angry at Harris for challenging Biden. redgreenandblue Jun 2019 #27
I really really like Harris. I respect her right to say what she did and the way she said it Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 #67
+1, no question at all about this. JudyM Jun 2019 #111
If Biden had responded by bringing up Harris' truancy program while she was San Francisco DA, sop Jun 2019 #29
That is what I feel she was trying to do. I felt she made a calculated move, though I am sure emmaverybo Jun 2019 #32
I wish Biden had Raine Jun 2019 #57
If a perfect world... Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #104
I do too. I think the heavy emotional approach and very personal confrontation must have taken emmaverybo Jun 2019 #109
Of course they would. StocktonNative Jun 2019 #31
Resounding YES. democratisphere Jun 2019 #33
they'd be more angry KayF Jun 2019 #34
Yes. Because the premise was false. BlueTsunami2018 Jun 2019 #35
Thank You, BlueTsunami. Cha Jun 2019 #37
Agree! True Blue American Jun 2019 #43
Ah yes indeed!! Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #105
lol this is funny RandiFan1290 Jun 2019 #36
Angry? Mike Nelson Jun 2019 #51
Not sure about Beto TheFarseer Jun 2019 #52
Yes of course Raine Jun 2019 #56
Im happy at her MFM008 Jun 2019 #58
If I felt their line of attack was bullshit then yes of course I would. So you're saying Harris is UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #62
She had a right to go after him. This is a primary and she did nothing wrong. BeckyDem Jun 2019 #63
I disagree...and I haven't seen Harris defend her record yet...but I suppose we will fairly soon. Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #90
If anyone has the temerity to question it. She was a controversial DA and AG. I always felt emmaverybo Jun 2019 #113
Sen. Harris's line was a cheap shot nt LibFarmer Jun 2019 #66
Her attacks on Biden will not help her!! Booker already tried ...same racial issues Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #106
Harris didn't "go after' Biden Alpeduez21 Jun 2019 #68
I am not angry. I just did not appreciate it. IluvPitties Jun 2019 #69
If Bernie so much as breathes on a Dem people get angry at him. Autumn Jun 2019 #70
If they have been honest...... quickesst Jun 2019 #71
What was the lie? EffieBlack Jun 2019 #77
I don't think.... quickesst Jun 2019 #98
Thank you!! Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #107
you're welcome quickesst Jun 2019 #119
I'm not seeing that much anger directed at her. SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #73
Oh, probably. Some think that Joe Biden shouldn't be in the race MineralMan Jun 2019 #74
This is why I still believe Biden will be the nominee... Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #92
Trump won on I will give everyone a bigly most beautiful health plan. NT emmaverybo Jun 2019 #115
Booker also demanded a personal apology on TV. ucrdem Jun 2019 #75
Short answer, yes. But I'm not angry and Hortensis Jun 2019 #76
No one seemed angry when Castro challenged O'Rourke on Wednesday mcar Jun 2019 #79
Beto was mildly critical of Biden's positions on some things on an interview Indygram Jun 2019 #85
Yes I would. I find her attacks on Biden both unfair and damaging to our chances to win a general. Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #87
+1 emmaverybo Jun 2019 #116
Beto wouldn't challenge someone like that, and hell yes I would be angry at Sanders. W_HAMILTON Jun 2019 #91
Bernie? You can't be serious BeyondGeography Jun 2019 #102
+ infinity mtnsnake Jun 2019 #110
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down to see this response. Ace Rothstein Jun 2019 #117
I'm not angry with her. I just think she overplayed her hand by immediately selling T-shirt's. Quackers Jun 2019 #108
I'm buying the shirts for my daughters. And to make white people salty. nt LexVegas Jun 2019 #112
Yes. It was the way she delivered her point and I wouldn't accept that from anyone. Claritie Pixie Jun 2019 #125
Yes n/t Devil Child Jun 2019 #127
You mean if they had used the same words and attacked him about the same thing? Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #128
Thing is, a lot of black women were uncomfortable with the exchange as well. ecstatic Jun 2019 #131
I wasn't angry with her. People have the right to ask about his record. 58Sunliner Jun 2019 #132

Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
2. I think a Biden-Pete ticket would have difficulty energizing key voters in our base
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:29 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to EffieBlack (Reply #2)

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
10. Who do you think would "overly energize his base"?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:47 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

kysrsoze

(6,010 posts)
21. They can find a way to be angry at or hate anyone. The will try to demonize any challengers.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:16 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
22. Then why suggest avoiding picking someone who would energize his base
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:18 AM
Jun 2019

if they would demonize anyone we choose?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to EffieBlack (Reply #10)

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
24. In other words, we must pick a straight white man
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:23 AM
Jun 2019

Sorry, but I don't play nicely with the "of course, it doesn't matter to ME, but someone else (neighbors, customers, friends, clients, voters) are bigots and won't give them a chance, so we'd better not hire/rent to/hang out with/nominate a person of color or LGBTQ" excuse for perpetuating racism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to EffieBlack (Reply #24)

 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
44. We only lost in 2016 by 80K votes in 3 states, despite massive voter suppression
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:16 AM
Jun 2019

affecting hundreds of thousands of votes in those states; and James Comey's intervention 11 days before the election

So why are you so certain that if we had a strong registration drive and GOTV, including help with voter ID's, that several of our candidates couldn't win in those states?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to pnwmom (Reply #44)

 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
96. That's absolutely true. And that's why I think it is ridiculous to think Biden is our only hope n/t
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 11:16 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to pnwmom (Reply #96)

 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
88. Right... and who can win those states back is the question...MI, WI and PA... I don't see any
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:21 AM
Jun 2019

candidate save Biden able to do this. If Trump wins those three states, he will win the presidency again. And the idea that Trump will be easy to beat is simply not true...we could lose the house as well if we move to far left...moderates gave us the house.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
97. There's zero reason to think that Biden is the only person who could get those 80K votes.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 11:17 AM
Jun 2019

Without the Comey intervention,, even Hillary might have won.

And a strong GOTV could push the numbers up for any DEM. We weren't prepared for the voter suppression last time -- we should be, this time. And if we are, the several of the candidate s are strong enough to win.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
94. Exactly
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:36 AM
Jun 2019

And we need to remember that in 2016 92,077,433 - 46 percent did not vote, that won't happen this time around.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tulipsandroses

(5,092 posts)
135. This!!!!!!10000 times this!!!!!!!
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:25 PM
Jun 2019

And since then, Trump has not delivered for the people that did not know anything about him and decided to give him a try. I am not talking about his hard core base. We are not going to win them over. I am talking about the trump triers that honestly thought he was going to drain the swamp, thought he was a good businessman that was going to make things better.

I am not saying that this is going to be an easy fight but I don't think that Joe is the only one that can lead us to victory. We have a lot of good candidates. If he's the nominee, he has my support. I would prefer someone more progressive. I just don't buy the argument that only Joe can save us. I'm in Georgia - Look what Stacy did in GA, that was grass roots movement and I think the only reason she " lost' was due to voter suppression. No way do I think that Kemp really won.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
86. I think Biden-Anyone wins every state that HRC won. What VP helps in MI/WI/PA and maybe elsewhere?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:17 AM
Jun 2019

I think Pete could do that. Could he do it best? I don't know, but I think he could do it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
39. Made Pete look more
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:42 AM
Jun 2019

Considerate. He did not attack anyone.

Not every one agrees with Kamala on bussing. It destroyed our City School system because those who could afford to, both black and white moved out to the suburbs. They objected to their kids being bussed clear across town when they had close neighborhood schools.

The Congress should have poured that money into fixing Schools.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
139. Yes - fix schools and stop funding chartered schools!!!
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 09:56 PM
Jun 2019

and fix standardized testing, or stop it too!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mdelaguna

(471 posts)
55. Yes
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:33 AM
Jun 2019

I saw the chemistry.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
4. I have no problem with strong women. I am disappointed in her angry confrontation because I
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:39 AM
Jun 2019

think the anger misplaced. I would like to see her confront racists and racism with the fervor she used tonight, not re-litigate bussing with a civil rights supporter of long-standing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
6. When did she get angry?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:44 AM
Jun 2019

I understand that black women who speak up are often accused of being angry, but c'mon - calling her angry when she was calm and cool is way beyond the pale.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
9. She was not calm. And I am offended that you insinuate I am reading in anger because she is
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:46 AM
Jun 2019

black.
Ok. Maybe she confronted him with her sadness. Maybe I am angry.
I have always admired Harris and particularly her prosecutorial skills against those I view as “enemies,” enemies to the American ideals I feel Biden stands up for.
My mother’s next door neighbor, a lawyer and professor, had a sticker on her car that read “I am an angry black woman.” She moved away.
I would love to see that sticker every morning now that I live in mom’s house.
I think whatever you call the emotion Harris expressed, she did confront Biden.
I would probably not have liked anyone to do that.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
12. She was very calm. There was absolutely nothing "angry" about her tone or demeanor
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:53 AM
Jun 2019

I can't imagine how anyone could possibly claim she came across as angry.

And yes, I am saying that I suspect you might be perceiving her as angry because she's black - given my own vast personal experience and long-standing documented experience of many other black women who are consistently perceived as "angry" whenever we speak up for ourselves no matter how soft-spoken, calm and reserved we are, I don't think my suspicion is off-base.

Look at the video again and seriously consider why you believe she comes across as angry and whether you would attribute that characterization to a white male who evidenced the same tone, volume and demeanor.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
20. I edited my initial response. I would appreciate your reading it. I do not tonight want to see the
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:14 AM
Jun 2019

video. I will reflect on my own recollection and what I first noted.
I have admired her debating and speaking style in the past and did tonight.
All I can say is that as this was occurring I was commenting in a thread and now that I read my own remarks at the moment, I see that I did not mention anger. In fact I commented on her presence in a very positive way.
I must have retrospective reading in.




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

58Sunliner

(4,339 posts)
133. I don't know what your original response was,
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:17 PM
Jun 2019

but you can not win when someone is determined to frame everything by racism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
134. True, Very true, very true. NT
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:22 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
89. I thought she was angry and played the victim somewhat...not a good idea when you run for president.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:23 AM
Jun 2019

I liked Harris..(past tense). But I really don't anymore...will vote for her in a general but not in a primary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Chemisse

(30,793 posts)
78. I actually got the impression that she was sympathetic toward him while pushing him into a corner,
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:06 AM
Jun 2019

and seeing his near-helplessness to respond effectively.

It was like taking candy from a baby last night, and she seemed to show compassion while still getting the job done.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MontanaFarmer

(630 posts)
84. She cut him, badly.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:13 AM
Jun 2019

It was very effective. That, coupled with several other moments (specifically her closing), made her the clear winner last night. It wasn't close. She was the only president on that stage last night, in my opinion. I love Joe Biden, but he was unprepared both to defend his record and to talk definitively about what he'd do as president. Clinging to Obama is a good strategy, but it looked like his only one last night.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
80. I saw her as emotional but not angry
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:09 AM
Jun 2019

More sad. That's what made it so effective, from my POV.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
46. Why is it so hard for Biden to make a simple apology? That's all it would have taken.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:20 AM
Jun 2019

He couldn't with Anita Hill and he couldn't with Harris. And he never should have told Booker that Booker should have apologized to HIM.

All Biden had to say was something like, well, that was a long time ago, in a different era, and I understand why you were hurt, but I did the best I could at the time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

onetexan

(12,994 posts)
81. he shouldn't apologize because he said nothing wrong. The wrong is Kamala mischaracterized his words
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:09 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
93. No reason to apologize to Hill. He voted against Thomas. She wanted the hearing. Republicans did
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:33 AM
Jun 2019

not want her to have one at all. Joe Biden had to get that hearing and to do so he had to
agree that Republicans could question her credibility, of course, and to a timeline.

So the questioned—Grassley, Specter, Heflin, Simpson. Yes, they were challenging her. And Thomas, Very emotional, claimed the hearing was a high tech lynching. The Dem side were cowed.
He would go on to be only the second black person in history to be on the Supreme Court. The
Republicans knew they put Dems in a political bind in nominating him, an arch conservative, for Thurgood Marshall’s seat, a civil rights legend.

Ted Kennedy was on the Dem side and very passive, detached. Of them all, Biden tried to
really test Thomas. But he was not Hill’s defense lawyer, in the end, he voted against Thomas. This, at the time, was not a Biden vs. Hill hearing.

Get a transcript. If you can, watch the hearing. Biden has always believed Hill and praised her courage, It was not Biden smearing Hill, trying to humiliate her. He did not call a witness as a hostile witness as he was so advised by counsel. It was a lousy process, still is. He does not owe her a personal apology. She should ask Thomas for one and Grassley. Who is still alive.






If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

applegrove

(118,020 posts)
5. Here is a tweet on the matter:
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:40 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
82. That is a great response!
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:10 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
118. Excellent!
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:01 PM
Jun 2019

I did see that on Twitter, and it's perfect here. Thank you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kysrsoze

(6,010 posts)
8. The only negative thing I could say is her points reach way back. That said...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:45 AM
Jun 2019

Harris nailed Biden on some bad and inexplainable inconsistencies. There goes the Harris/Biden or vice versa ticket.😄

She is extremely tough and extremely right on many things. Harris is one of my faves right now. She would destroy Dump in a debate. Nobody in these debates has called Drumpf out for being the Russian stooge that he is like she did.. And I think she’ll do everything in her power to make campaign promises reality.

Im still very undecided. Some great candidates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Liberty Belle

(9,528 posts)
11. Don't rule it out yet.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:52 AM
Jun 2019

Remember that Obama and Clinton ran against each other and were at times harshly critical of each other, but set that aside for the good of the nation. Harris and Biden could do that, too.

Biden is not my favorite candidate but we could do far worse than that combination. I like his line about Trump stealing the soul of our country. He could bring in some of the older, white and male voters and moderates, while Harris would excite people of color, women and younger voters, and those who want to see Trump held accountable someday.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kysrsoze

(6,010 posts)
19. True. I still like Joe Biden. He's a good guy, deep down. Its going to be an interesting primary.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:10 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
13. If Sanders or O'Rourke described an opponent's words as "hurtful," would it generate
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:54 AM
Jun 2019

If Sanders or O'Rourke described an opponent's words as "hurtful," would it generate more or less support for either one as a candidate?

Would it even be deemed as "challenging" by many in the audience?

Or would it been seen as weakness, as opposed to strength?





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
38. Trump would laugh out loud at it...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:34 AM
Jun 2019

Trump would laugh out loud at it...

Harris is at 5 points with AA voters; Biden's at 45.

Sanders is beating her with AA votes as well.

Obama she's not.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kcr

(15,300 posts)
60. Trump will mock anything any Dem will say
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:07 AM
Jun 2019

Any Dem who tries to shape their candidacy based on what Trump won't laugh at will not appeal to any potential Dem voter because he will look and sound exactly like Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
17. You're pretty hung up on that word, aren't you?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:06 AM
Jun 2019

Has it occurred to you that black people - especially women - have had to learn how to couch everything we say whenever talking about race in terms that aren't seen as too hostile or confrontational to white people? And one of the ways we must do that is by not saying such things as "what you said was really messed up" but "I know you're not a racist and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but what you said was really hurtful to me."

And even then, THAT's not good enough and we have some people telling is that makes us seem weak and others, like a few people here, accusing is of being angry and confrontational.

Meanwhile, Bernie's yelling and waving his finger and Swalwell is ordering Buttigieg to fire his police chief and deBlasio is acting like Trump's Mini Me, but that's all fine because they're strong and/or sensitive.

So I'm not very patient with the whateversplaining about Kamala Harris's words and demeanor. And if anyone thinks she portrays weakness because she said she found something to be "hurtful," I suggest they try to go one on one for three minutes with her in a courtroom, on a debate stage or in a dark alley and see how that works out for them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
42. You didn't answer the questions, however...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:57 AM
Jun 2019

You didn't answer the questions, however...do you think strong individuals take "hurtful" words seriously? Or do you think it signals weakness?

In my world, it's weak, period. Most of us out here don't have the time or energy to spare to give a damn, because we're fighting every day to stay above water...

And when you're in a fight, your enemy doesn't give a shit about your feelings; they care whether you are stronger than they are, move faster, or hit harder.

Likewise, nobody I know gives a crap about a candidate's feelings, or whether they "feel our pain" or whatever other emotional bullshit platitudes they offer up; as far as I can tell, this time around, voters want a candidate who will fight and beat the asshole in the White House.

Who, tragically, is both an incumbent and can call on the assistance of all his little shitbird friends in Moscow, so the odds are in his favor, despite being a treasonous shitbird of galactic proportions. If we're not fighting to the death, that fat fuck is going to kill us.

I voted for Harris for AG and senator, and if she gets the nomination I'll vote for her in November.

But her effort tonight was about one thing - she's down around 5 percent with AA voters; Biden's at 45 percent.

Do the math.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
48. Harris didn't have the spotlight on her for being Obama's VP for 8 years. She's not been getting by
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:26 AM
Jun 2019

on Obama's reflected glory. People in CA know her; but not many in the rest of the country.

Most of the people I know, including the black people I know, mostly want whoever is going to beat Trump. If they stop thinking that person would be Joe Biden, then he's going to lose their support.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
49. Yes, it was calculated and contrived. We agree there.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:33 AM
Jun 2019

Yes, it was calculated and contrived. We agree there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
83. But was she shrill?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:12 AM
Jun 2019

Poll tested? Over prepared?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
120. No to the above...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:25 PM
Jun 2019

Emotional?

Yes.

Not a good look for someone who is supposed to be a tough as nails prosecutor. And I voted for her for AG and the Senate.

Maybe other find it impressive, somehow; I found it to be empty rhetoric.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
122. Again, Biden gets emotional on a regular basis
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:28 PM
Jun 2019

Talking about the tragedies in his life. I fear up with him, in empathy. I want a human being with feelings and emotions, as a president.

Do you think Obama was too emotional to be president? I recall many times he teared up.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
123. Biden lost a spouse and two children
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:31 PM
Jun 2019

Biden lost a spouse and two children.

Harris had to go to grade school across town (and that town was, unless I'm mistaken, a wealthy college town in California) on a bus.

My father was a farmhand and my mother a clerk; hers were Phd students at Cal.

Boo fucking hoo.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
129. You apparently missed the fact that she wasn't complaining
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:39 PM
Jun 2019

about being bused, she was saying it gave her a better educational opportunity. You know this, right? Otherwise your whole argument is moot.

I don't think either of us get to judge what nakes human beings emotional. Boo fucking hoo.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
130. Harris complained that Biden's words were "hurtful", did she not?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:47 PM
Jun 2019

Harris complained that Biden's words were "hurtful", did she not?



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
136. Yes, she did
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:26 PM
Jun 2019

Where was the anger? Where were the tears?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
138. So, Harris complained about Biden's words and played to emotion...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 09:18 PM
Jun 2019

So, Harris complained about Biden's words and played to false emotion, suggesting the Berkeley schools in the '70s made Little Rock in the '50s look good...

And then she went off to Canada while her Phd mother taught at McGill and her father was teaching at Stanford, living in the most expensive neighborhood in Montreal, graduating from high school in that same neighborhood, went to Howard and then Hastings (UC College of Law).

The whole gambit was empty rhetoric that made her look weak and emotional. Manipulative bullshit.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
50. You keep saying that ".. Biden is getting by
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:33 AM
Jun 2019

on President Obama's reflected glory.. " and it's not true.

But, by all means keep pushing your spin on Biden's decades of service.. it says more about what you're trying to do than anything about Joe Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
53. Before he was Obama's VP, he had a fraction of the visibility he has now.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:55 AM
Jun 2019

He made a lasting negative impression for many of us at the Anita Hill hearings. And when he last ran for President, he placed #5 in the Iowa primary and dropped out.

Obama helped improve his stature tremendously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

Overall, Biden had difficulty raising funds, struggled to draw people to his rallies, and failed to gain traction against the high-profile candidacies of Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton;[180] he never rose above single digits in the national polls of the Democratic candidates. In the initial contest on January 3, 2008, Biden placed fifth in the Iowa caucuses, garnering slightly less than one percent of the state delegates. Biden withdrew from the race that evening, saying "There is nothing sad about tonight. ... I feel no regret."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
54. By all means keep trying to smear Biden
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:07 AM
Jun 2019

with that.. like he did nothing during those 8 years that he was President Obama's Veep.

If you had paid any attention you would know Obama put him to work and was very happy for his guidance and assistance. Jill Biden was an invaluable asset, too.. I'm sure First Lady Michelle Obama would verify that.. since she and Dr Jill Biden were also invaluable for Military Families with their Org.. Joining Forces.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,091 posts)
72. Sometimes you make great points, sometimes you mischaracterize
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 09:48 AM
Jun 2019
"Meanwhile, Bernie's yelling and waving his finger and Swalwell is ordering Buttigieg to fire his police chief and deBlasio is acting like Trump's Mini Me, but that's all fine because they're strong and/or sensitive."


No, that's not "all fine." I saw with my own eyes posts here on the DU condemning each of those very actions you describe. I personally didn't approve of any of those incidents. Why aren't any of them a bigger deal? Because Swalwell and deBlasio are not considered true contenders.

If Beto had attacked Elizabeth Warren directly during Wednesday evening's debate the way Harris went after Biden, there definitely would have been plenty of chatter around here about that.

I wouldn't call Harris's calculated confrontation of Biden "angry." I would call it forceful. She went for it. She wanted to shine in that moment. Whether or not it pays off in the polls, I respect her for it.

That said, the release of "That Little Girl Was Me" t-shirts this morning via the Harris campaign could be a misstep. It has all the appearances of capitalizing commercially on the issue. But I don't know everything about it. If the $30 per t-shirt money goes to the Harris campaign, I'm appalled. If it all goes to some sort of charity or civil rights organization, then I'd get behind it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
95. The t-shirt thing is very Trumpian
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:50 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
114. They could not get away with it. NT
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 01:47 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
121. True that...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:27 PM
Jun 2019

True that...

Cripes, if Buttigieg had said it, one can imagine the ration of shit he would have received?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
124. Oh, Gawd. Not in his character, but...whoah. NT
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:31 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
126. Yeah; he's a gay war veteran ...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:33 PM
Jun 2019

Yeah; he's a gay war veteran ... in Indy-fucking-ana.

I can't even imagine the self-discipline it takes for him not to react to this shit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
14. This particular theme just never gets old ... (nt)
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:56 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
15. People are always complaining about Democrats' spines.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:57 AM
Jun 2019

Harris was extremely strong without angry shouting and flailing arms. A cool cucumber with a steel spine. That's the best way to do politics in my opinion.

Yesterday I changed my candidate preference from Harris to Warren but now I'm dithering. Even though I don't know much about her, Harris instantly attracted me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
18. I've seen her called too weak and angry and confrontational
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:10 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
28. My comments on Bernie: "over-aggressive, wound too tight, abrasive personality, devoid of
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:32 AM
Jun 2019

warmth. “

On her: “passionate and personal.” Appealing etc. I find nothing in my comments as I was observing but positive notes on her style. So...

Yes, those of us who don’t like her confronting Biden are probably spinning her now along with each other while the media is spinning Biden and heralding her style.

Could the issue not be an issue with a black woman and be an issue with her getting a good shot in at Biden?

Can I please be allowed to dislike that!?



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
41. We have a perfect right to disagree.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:57 AM
Jun 2019

A few words in a debate will not sink a candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
61. Women aren't allowed to do normal politics.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:19 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
64. You mean like
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:25 AM
Jun 2019

the way Harris is being criticized for "confronting" Biden and doing it as a "pre-planned" manner - as if she should behave at a presidential debate like she's at a debutante tea party while the men are playing rockem-sockem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
103. Yes, that is true! It is also something prez Obama knew and played it out very well
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:00 PM
Jun 2019

Like it or not, these are the facts

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
25. Bernie, yes absolutely.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:26 AM
Jun 2019

Bernie gets called sexist here for not combing his hair. People are literally sifting through sound-bites in search of anything to be offended by when it comes to Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
27. Me? I'm certainly not angry at Harris for challenging Biden.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:31 AM
Jun 2019

I don't have a horse in that particular race. I'm more like:

On edit: Neither are my first choice by far, but if I had to choose between the two I'd prefer Harris.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
67. I really really like Harris. I respect her right to say what she did and the way she said it
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:29 AM
Jun 2019

But I fully concur in what you wrote. Bernie would have been dragged over hot coals here had he been the one who said it. I just logged on here this morning, maybe Kamala is being dragged over hot coals herself - haven't read enough to know yet. If so a lot of that, IMO, would flow from intrinsic sexism. With Bernie it would more be a function of those who adamantly oppose him finding new grounds to lash out at him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
111. +1, no question at all about this.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:30 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sop

(9,946 posts)
29. If Biden had responded by bringing up Harris' truancy program while she was San Francisco DA,
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:33 AM
Jun 2019

would her supporters be angry with him? That program threatened parents of truant children with jail time for a nonviolent, low-level offense. She was criticized by many in the black community for "creating another pipeline to the criminal justice system."

Harris defended the policy as "a way to push the parents of of chronically truant kids to get them to school." But, a video in which "Harris laughs as she calls the idea 'controversial' and boasts about scaring a mom with the prospect of going to jail" didn't help her in the black community.

I suppose attacking Harris from the left, to drive down her support among the black community, would have been justified. After all, isn't that what Harris was trying to accomplish when she brought up Biden's busing position?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
32. That is what I feel she was trying to do. I felt she made a calculated move, though I am sure
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:54 AM
Jun 2019

her experience is genuine, lived. It is very difficult to defend oneself when confronted on an issue
with personal narrative in a public situation. Disarming.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Raine

(30,540 posts)
57. I wish Biden had
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:39 AM
Jun 2019

and hope he does if she pulls out an old issue like busing to use against him again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
104. If a perfect world...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:01 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
109. I do too. I think the heavy emotional approach and very personal confrontation must have taken
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:25 PM
Jun 2019

his breath away. It reminded me of a daughter-father scene in a drama when the daughter after all those painful, pent up years tells her father how much he hurt “that little girl.”

I don’t think any scene like this has ever been played out in a political debate.

It would be hard enough for an actual father, expecting his daughter’s “moment,” to field all this, but I mean he’s just on the debate stage with her—debating—not in the family living room anticipating family drama.

Nor is he an actor who knew the role he was going to play for Ms. Harris’s star turn. Or the script.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StocktonNative

(120 posts)
31. Of course they would.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:36 AM
Jun 2019

Bernie and Warren are progressives. Beto not so much, but still people would be angry.

I although like the fact that Harris came out strong and threw punches. It's about being the top dog going against a rude puzzy neck racist who will character assassinate your ass.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
33. Resounding YES.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:58 AM
Jun 2019

This has nothing to do with gender, so quit trying to make it different.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KayF

(1,345 posts)
34. they'd be more angry
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:15 AM
Jun 2019

much more, I think.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueTsunami2018

(3,461 posts)
35. Yes. Because the premise was false.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:15 AM
Jun 2019

He didn’t praise, coddle or defend the reputations of the scumbag segregationist Senators. It was based on bullshit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
37. Thank You, BlueTsunami.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:20 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mike Nelson

(9,903 posts)
51. Angry?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:42 AM
Jun 2019

Harris is helping Biden... if he's ready to get on the stage and defeat Crooked Donald, it will show. He should expect more of this, from Harris and others.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
52. Not sure about Beto
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:44 AM
Jun 2019

But Bernie?! Are you kidding me? Most people here are furious everyday he doesn't drop out of the race.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Raine

(30,540 posts)
56. Yes of course
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:34 AM
Jun 2019

because she knows darned well he's not a racist, she even said so but then went on to insinuate that his actions were! I would be just as mad if Beto or Bernie had done that to Biden or any other Democratic candidate!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MFM008

(19,776 posts)
58. Im happy at her
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:43 AM
Jun 2019

Its about damn time a woman got pissed off without having to consult a man or anyone else.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
62. If I felt their line of attack was bullshit then yes of course I would. So you're saying Harris is
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:23 AM
Jun 2019

getting attacked on DU because she is a black woman that confronted a white man. Yeah OK.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
63. She had a right to go after him. This is a primary and she did nothing wrong.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:24 AM
Jun 2019

Harris even said, EACH of us have to defend our record.

If Biden is your chosen candidate then you're most likely not going to see what she did as fair.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
90. I disagree...and I haven't seen Harris defend her record yet...but I suppose we will fairly soon.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:24 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
113. If anyone has the temerity to question it. She was a controversial DA and AG. I always felt
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 01:44 PM
Jun 2019

She had integrity and judgement. I thought she didn’t play out of a personal political deck regardless of what voting group did the criticizing. But hey, no politician can get anywhere without
strategizing, schmoozing, or playing it.

And gosh knows Obama really got it. Took down a good man, Reverend Wright, and a Catholic priest to try to get him. And then Hilary. Guess the top is never immune.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LibFarmer

(772 posts)
66. Sen. Harris's line was a cheap shot nt
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:29 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
106. Her attacks on Biden will not help her!! Booker already tried ...same racial issues
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:05 PM
Jun 2019

I don’t see him jumping up in the polls... do you??

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Alpeduez21

(1,739 posts)
68. Harris didn't "go after' Biden
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:31 AM
Jun 2019

She pointed out what is record is and the consequences of that. She didn't attack him, she didn't belittle him, she didn't emasculate him.

Biden hasn't apoligized for ANY of his past behavior. He has steadfastly defended copitulating to racists, mysogyny and anti abortionists.

If he doesn't like having his record pointed out he probably should call it quits. I know you were vice president under Obama, I know you have been in the senate, like, forever. I know you have repeatedly cowtowed to the right during that time. If Biden and his ilk don't like having his record questioned, which is what she did, he and they are in the wrong business.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

IluvPitties

(3,181 posts)
69. I am not angry. I just did not appreciate it.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:32 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(44,761 posts)
70. If Bernie so much as breathes on a Dem people get angry at him.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:37 AM
Jun 2019
Personally, I'm glad she went there. I would like someone to call him on his idea of "codifying the right to an abortion, granted in Roe v Wade, into law

"as defined by Casey" Nothing like a Dem candidate suggesting more burdens be put on women who need or want an abortion. I expect that shit from Republicans.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
71. If they have been honest......
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:38 AM
Jun 2019

.....beforehand, then probably not, but.....

I would be hard-pressed to put my faith in someone who's first volley pre debate towards Joe Biden was a lie. Apparently, a lot of people have no moral or ethical qualms about promoting this untruth.

, "Praising and coddling individuals who made it their life work and built their reputation off of segregation of the racists in the United States. That’s a problem. I would not be a member of the United States Senate if those men that he praised had their way. I wouldn’t." Kamala Harris

When you start out with dishonesty, it's hard for the truth to catch up.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
77. What was the lie?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:02 AM
Jun 2019

Please be specific.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
98. I don't think....
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 11:23 AM
Jun 2019

.... I can spell it out any plainer for you. Joe Biden never praised nor coddled any segregationist. He worked with them to get some things done , but did not agree nor was he complicit in any of their racist ideals. Prove that he praised and coddled them. Please be specific.

"Praising and coddling individuals who made it their life work and built their reputation off of segregation of the racists in the United States. That’s a problem. I would not be a member of the United States Senate if those men that he praised had their way. I wouldn’t." Kamala Harris

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
119. you're welcome
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:12 PM
Jun 2019

Going on about seven hours, and still no reply from the OP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SouthernProgressive

(1,810 posts)
73. I'm not seeing that much anger directed at her.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 09:53 AM
Jun 2019

There is a little, but most Biden supporters I've seen seem to understand the exchange and understand her need to do it. I currently have Biden as my number two and Harris as my number three. Love both of them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
74. Oh, probably. Some think that Joe Biden shouldn't be in the race
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 09:55 AM
Jun 2019

to start with. Those people have been pointing that out from the very beginning.

So, it wouldn't matter who brought up those challenges, really. They've already been brought up here multiple times.

Thing is: It's not really up to us on DU. It's up to Democratic primary voters all across this country. Many of those don't have the same priorities some DUers have. Many of those just want someone to knock Trump out of the White House. That's the top priority for many, many Democratic voters. Most of them don't post here.

Really, most Democrats don't post here. Most have never heard of Democratic Underground. I make a point of mentioning DU to the many Democrats I talk to. Not one of them has ever heard of this website before I mentioned it, and I don't know of any who have come here after I recommended the site.

Voters. They matter.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
92. This is why I still believe Biden will be the nominee...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:28 AM
Jun 2019

I do think the debate hurt us with all our candidates vowing to give undocumented folks health care...sure it s the right thing to do... but not popular with average voters...neither is busing for that matter...or reparations or MFA (if all other insurance is gone). Our candidates should consider what will happen in a general. Running on detailed policy is always a mistake in a primary...gives the other side a line of attack.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
115. Trump won on I will give everyone a bigly most beautiful health plan. NT
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 01:49 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
75. Booker also demanded a personal apology on TV.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 09:55 AM
Jun 2019

I don't think it's a gender issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
76. Short answer, yes. But I'm not angry and
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 09:59 AM
Jun 2019

I doubt most people are. The noisy minority is not, and never is, the quiet majority.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
79. No one seemed angry when Castro challenged O'Rourke on Wednesday
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:07 AM
Jun 2019

All I saw here was praise.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Indygram

(2,113 posts)
85. Beto was mildly critical of Biden's positions on some things on an interview
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:15 AM
Jun 2019

And some here acted like Beto had committed a horrible crime yet some of the same people were celebrating when Castro was dishonest about section 1325 and attacked Beto and continued to interrupt him when he tried to respond. Hell, for months Beto has gotten attacked, insulted, dismissed and when he comes out with incredible policy plans or has a giant success it's all but ignored or misrepresented. I have never seen a candidate get treated so unfairly in my entire 50+ years.

I'm not angry with Kamala at all. I wasn't angry with Booker either. Biden is not a good candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
87. Yes I would. I find her attacks on Biden both unfair and damaging to our chances to win a general.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:17 AM
Jun 2019

She won't take the rust belt without which we have no path to winning the general (WI, MI and PA)...the t-shirt thing and the photo ready to go...just infuriates me... she attacked on a 50 year old deeply unpopular program...and it was pre-planned. What are supposed to run on busing now? I would prefer to win a general personally. Biden is not a racist...her behavior has removed her from my list of who I will support in a primary. Of course I would support her in a general...but could she win? I don't think so. I predict she will not get the outcome she expects...the polls will not move much or maybe even at all...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

W_HAMILTON

(7,813 posts)
91. Beto wouldn't challenge someone like that, and hell yes I would be angry at Sanders.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 10:25 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,283 posts)
102. Bernie? You can't be serious
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 11:59 AM
Jun 2019

This place would self-implode.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ace Rothstein

(3,109 posts)
117. I can't believe I had to scroll this far down to see this response.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 01:58 PM
Jun 2019

DU would be on fire if Bernie challenged Biden like that. He'S nOt EvEn A dEmOcRaT!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Quackers

(2,256 posts)
108. I'm not angry with her. I just think she overplayed her hand by immediately selling T-shirt's.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:12 PM
Jun 2019

Another point for her was the food fight comment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LexVegas

(6,005 posts)
112. I'm buying the shirts for my daughters. And to make white people salty. nt
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 12:32 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Claritie Pixie

(2,199 posts)
125. Yes. It was the way she delivered her point and I wouldn't accept that from anyone.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:31 PM
Jun 2019

To me, she had rehearsed it and when she found an opening went for it Did not seen authentic.
Now maybe that's how the game is played to get attention but I don't agree with it. Not from anyone this go round.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
128. You mean if they had used the same words and attacked him about the same thing?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:38 PM
Jun 2019

And been wrong in their facts? Absolutely.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ecstatic

(32,566 posts)
131. Thing is, a lot of black women were uncomfortable with the exchange as well.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:04 PM
Jun 2019

I'm not angry at all. I have mixed emotions on this, especially because Kamala is among my top 3 candidates. I can't speak for others, but in my opinion, she was WINNING the debate and that scene wasn't necessary. Just 3 minutes earlier, she said Americans don't want to see a food fight and then she brought the biggest attack of the night.

So, anyway, when she pivoted into the attack, my take was, she better knock him out COMPLETELY because she cannot mortally wound him then have him go into the GE (with a bunch of people convinced that Biden is a racist). Unfortunately, she didn't knock him out completely (although the story is still developing and things could easily change by tomorrow).

MY NUMBER ONE CONCERN IS GETTING tRUMP AND REPUBLICANS OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE/CONGRESS. PERIOD.

trump's judge picks are setting us back DECADES. He is stacking the courts with right wing judges as I type. So anything--and I repeat---ANYTHING or ANYONE that appears to make it less likely that trump is removed is going to irritate me. So that's where I stand now. Scared and concerned about next fall. That being said, if everyone jumps away from Biden to Kamala, I'd be happy. But if they don't move to Kamala and Biden is the nominee, then we're all going to have to figure out how to convince millennials that Biden is not a racist.

Had the busing challenge come from Bernie or Beto, I would have been extremely irritated, because, from my perspective, it would look like they were trying to manipulate the emotions of the black voters who support Biden (without concern about how it would affect the GE, etc.).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

58Sunliner

(4,339 posts)
132. I wasn't angry with her. People have the right to ask about his record.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 08:10 PM
Jun 2019

I think that she crafted the moment, and then her campaign releases a t-shirt minutes later. She then goes on TV the next morning, and says she didn't know about the t-shirt and quickly changes the subject. I would be disappointed in Buttigeig if he did the same thing about his experiences with homophobia. Questioned a candidate about his position on gay rights, told a sad story about how a child was threatened and that that young boy was him. Then he releases a t-shirt ten minutes later with a picture of himself as a child and tries to make money off of his gotcha moment. I know he would not do it, because he knows he is not the only one who has suffered and that it would be beneath him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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