Chris Matthews to Kamala Harris: After Busing Experience, How Did You Not 'Have Hatred Towards White

[Soph0571]

...People?’

That’s when Matthews said this:

“This is really important to people of all backgrounds and ethnicities. I don’t like the word race — ethnicities. How did you come out of that and not have hatred towards white people generally? You talked about being a kid and having other kids being kept off as friends because their parents looked at you as someone else.”

[link:https://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-matthews-to-kamala-harris-after-busing-experience-how-did-you-not-have-hatred-towards-white-people/|

Are you fucking kidding me? Old white privileged dude asking such a fucking stupid question to a black woman running for President.... he is doing the right wing racist co-horts job for them...

[JI7]

1. he should ask this of Trump and his supporters. Why do they have such hatred towards little

black/brown kids . why do they hate people who are lgbt who did nothing to them ?

[dalton99a]

23. Exactly.

[Afromania]

33. yup

[hlthe2b]

2. and then kept pushing for her to say that "Biden is DONE"

She was having none of it and I thought she pulled back considerably from her attack on Biden on race, emphasizing he is not racist, had spent his life doing tremendous public service and on and on.

I think Harris knows she went too far. And, she did. It is one thing to ask Biden to explain controversial stances from the past. It is one thing to make sure he knows how those impacted felt and what they experienced as a result of those decisions. But such a complex issue (and I lived through it--it was--even among civil rights leaders the best way to desegregate was not a clear consensus) to launch at him out of the blue and with the added emotion of the personal experience/affront being added-- how the hell would anyone have been able to answer that in 20 seconds?

Biden's long record is going to set him up for this, but the tactic, though it gave her a chance to show her toughness towards a foil that could represent Trump, was really unfair. It came across as an ambush and for an issue not immediately clear to most of the audience. My early years were spent in the deep South and I'd bet my last penny that while this might resonate with the youngest, it will not with those African Americans old enough to have experienced the controversial decisions following Brown v Board and efforts to desegregate and who know Biden's long history of civil rights efforts

Harris will both gain and lose on this score. I still love her and think this helps her with respect to showing she is tough enough to go against Trump, but Biden is undoubtedly going to benefit from those who saw this as exploitative and unfair.

[robbedvoter]

3. She went to far?

[hlthe2b]

4. Yes, she did when she made him look like a racist. He is not and she made sure to backtrack on that

that with Matthews. You can smack your head all you want. I love Kamala and this succeeded in showing her toughness, but it will not cause all to think better of her. While her delivery on other issues throughout the night was pitch-perfect, she did not make clear what her issue was in this episode and for the majority of the audiences too young to have experienced the issues surrounding implementing desegregation, they had no clue.

Yes, she backtracked with Tweety because she did not want to paint Biden as a racist--something he clearly is not. And, in her zeal, that is the clear implication she left. So, YES, she knows she was both effective, but she likewise went too far. She grew up in privilege in Berkeley. I was in the heart of the South during that time. I can tell you that there was a tremendous backlash to forced bussing and it was anything but noncontroversial as a solution to segregation--not merely from white parents, but especially those of black children being forced to travel an hour or more across town.

So smack your head all you want. This is not a cut and dry issue.

Kamala deserves to move to the top of the pack, but she would have done so with the rest of her performance. She didn't need this and some who would move in her corner, will not as a result.

[RHMerriman]

5. Her parents were both Phds. Even as grad students, at Cal in the 1960s, they were not underprivilege

Her parents were both Phds. Even as grad students, at Cal in the 1960s, they were not underprivileged.

Likewise, she graduated from a high school in Montreal that is in the wealthiest neighborhood in Canada, went to Howard for undergrad by choice, and then to Hastings (University of California) for her JD.

Not exactly the mean streets.

[hedda_foil]

41. Nobody said she her family was poor or uneducated. Why would you imply? Is it a prerequisite?

[RHMerriman]

42. The point is that busing hardly was what allowed her to succeed...

The point is that busing hardly was what allowed her to succeed... being the child of two Phds at the University of California presumably helped.

Berkeley in the 1970s was not the San Joaquin or Sacramento valleys, or south central Los Angeles, was it?

[emmaverybo]

6. Your response is fair to both Harris and Biden. You remind us, and for younger people, teach, that

forced bussing was not a simple issue.

[IndyOp]

7. Overlooked? I think she made the point that sometimes the fed gov't

has to be willing to step in and make states do the right thing very effectively. Biden kept saying that he thought busing was ok if the local community wanted it, which implies that if the community did not want it that was okay too - states rights.

Why this matters at this time: Roe v. Wade.

[hlthe2b]

9. There was consensus on the need to desegregate...Not on forced bussing to achieve it.

There was consensus that the Federal government had to force the issue to desegregate, but not on the method. No matter how simplistic some try to make the argument, it is disingenuous. I lived it. The backlash against forced bussing wasn't just among white parents. There is a real need for some to learn some history.

I don't disagree with your point on Roe v Wade. The issues, however, are quite different.

[IndyOp]

10. I grew up in St. Louis during the era of bussing -

white-flight, redlining, stunning failures of public housing (Pruitt-Igoe), and the nightmare of violence that was unfolding in the city - the murder capitol of the world until the Atlanta Child Murders started.

My father drove daily from the suburbs (my parents were part of the flight) to St. Louis to his job in the St. Louis City Public Schools.

News and conversations about bussing were very frequent in my daily life.

Your statement that there is a real need for some people to learn some history was disrespectful. Disagreement is expected, circular firing squad is unhelpful.

[hlthe2b]

11. No it was not disrespectful. This is not well understood history being taught to our youth.

Even today, with the benefit of looking back, the issues surrounding Bussing and Desegregation remain highly controversial and anything but a consensus:

https://law.jrank.org/pages/10024/School-Desegregation-BUSING-DEBATE.html

https://www.everycrsreport.com/files/19810430_81-BU_fd6834d27b09c1bd7e303f2d717dfdd9658bb335.pdf

http://www.adversity.net/special/busing.htm

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/10/06/496411024/why-busing-didnt-end-school-segregation

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-boston-busing-crisis-was-never-intended-to-work/474264/

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2016/08/23/bringing-back-busing-do-benefits-outweigh-cost/

Maybe MOST relevent this 3-part piece on desegregation in Berkeley schools:
https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/10/16/a-radical-decision-an-unfinished-legacy


I respect Kamala Harris tremendously. I don't have to agree with how she handled this particular episode to continue to do so.

[LeftTurn3623]

14. She went to far?

[hlthe2b]

15. Yes, she did when she made him look like a racist. He is not and she made sure to backtrack on that

that with Matthews. You can smack your head all you want. I love Kamala and this succeeded in showing her toughness, but it will not cause all to think better of her. While her delivery on other issues throughout the night was pitch-perfect, she did not make clear what her issue was in this episode and for the majority of the audiences too young to have experienced the issues surrounding implementing desegregation, they had no clue.

Yes, she backtracked with Tweety because she did not want to paint Biden as a racist--something he clearly is not. And, in her zeal, that is the clear implication she left. So, YES, she knows she was both effective, but she likewise went too far. She grew up in privilege in Berkeley. I was in the heart of the South during that time. I can tell you that there was a tremendous backlash to forced bussing and it was anything but noncontroversial as a solution to segregation--not merely from white parents, but especially those of black children being forced to travel an hour or more across town.

So smack your head all you want. This is not a cut and dry issue.

Kamala deserves to move to the top of the pack, but she would have done so with the rest of her performance. She didn't need this and some who would move in her corner, will not as a result.

[LeftTurn3623]

30. again

re-watch the back & forth. The first thing she said was "I'm going to direct this at Vice President Biden, I do not believe you are a racist, and I agree with you on your commitment finding common ground" " then she left him have it for his comments and voting history.

I'm sorry that is fair game. Not only that, she left the world know right there, that she would look Trump in the eye and let him have it also. She has no issues standing up to anyone.

She needed to do this, if she wants any chance to be elected. Its call Politics. Its a tough game and it should be. People saw the fight and strength in her. Sorry that it was at Biden's expense but he is the front runner. He can handle it.

And I disagree with the media. I thought Biden handled it pretty well and it seemed to wake him up a bit. He finished very strong. I thought his 45 seconds at the end was way better than anyone else on the stage. I actually felt better about Biden after the debate than I did going in. I have always liked Biden. I saw him speak at a High School (West York) in PA during the Obama/Biden ticket 2018.

This helped her stock rise. I just hope that if Biden gets the nomination he still picks Harris. I still think that would be a sweet ticket.

[hlthe2b]

31. Addressed repeatedly and answered to both you and robbedvoter

(or are you the same poster? Some say there are no coincidences... )

[hlthe2b]

17. I responded earlier to your question about her going TOO far...

but since I note you are a new poster here, let me welcome you.

Please don't bang your head too much. We need healthy progressive voters for 2020.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. Yes, the poster you replied to made a spelling mistake with "to" instead of "too". . . . nt

[UniteFightBack]

19. Yeah she did great with that food fight remark and then went and threw all the damn food. nt

[awesomerwb1]

32. Yes, she did.

I like Kamala. Lived in CA most of my life. But I think she went too far. I did not like how she started the whole thing - "I do not believe you're a racist but...."

Completely unnecessary. She lost me there - for now. Use that energy and that anger against the dotard, not against a fellow Democrat.

[mcar]

21. She emphasized that during the debate

It was the first thing she said to him. Matthews is an idiot but Harris did not go too far. She did what debaters are supposed to do - she challenged the front runner.

[hlthe2b]

22. That she left the impression, however inadvertently that Biden was racist--lead to that question.

She intentionally ambushed a man who has made mistakes certainly, but has a remarkable record of pro-civil rights work, not to mention serving as the VP to our Nation's first black President, who not only chose him, but who looked upon each other as brothers.

Is politics rough and tumble? Surely, yes.
Is she right to go after Biden or anyone else to demonstrate her own abilities and record. Yes


That said, the ambush was clearly pre-planned (evidenced the tweet and t-shirts with her childhood photo silkscreen made available immediately after the debate). People see that. They recognize that and there is a discordance between the man they saw supporting President Obama for 8 years, the man they knew throughout his years as a public servant. That kind of discordance will not sit well with all. So, yes, that is why I believe she went TOO far and was so intent on setting Chris Matthews straight and to tamp down the impression left with some that she was calling Biden out as racist. She said he was not, sure, and then she went on for almost five minutes on all the resasons one might draw the conclusion that he WAS.

[mcar]

24. Ambushed? Really?

So, she wasn't allowed to prepare for the debates? She wasn't allowed to challenge Biden on words he said that he's been getting criticism for for weeks?

How is that an ambush? Did Castro "ambush" O'Rourke when he challenged him on immigration? Do you think Castro prepared to do that?

Debating takes preparation and looking for moments to stand out. Both Harris and Castro did that. Odd that only one is being slammed here.

BTW, here are Harris's exact words (bold mine):

As the only black person on this stage, I would like to speak on the issue of race.OK. So on the issue of race, I couldn't agree more that this is an issue that is still not being talked about truthfully and honestly. I -- there is not a black man I know, be he a relative, a friend or a coworker, who has not been the subject of some form of profiling or discrimination. Growing up, my sister and I had to deal with the neighbor who told us her parents couldn't play with us because she -- because we were black. And I will say also that -- that, in this campaign, we have also heard -- and I'm going to now direct this at Vice President Biden, I do not believe you are a racist, and I agree with you when you commit yourself to the importance of finding common ground. But I also believe, and it's personal -- and I was actually very -- it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputations and career on the segregation of race in this country. And it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing. And, you know, there was a little girl in California who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bussed to school every day.
And that little girl was me. So I will tell you that, on this subject, it cannot be an intellectual debate among Democrats. We have to take it seriously. We have to act swiftly. As attorney general of California, I was very proud to put in place a requirement that all my special agents would wear body cameras and keep those cameras on.

[hlthe2b]

25. I have repeatedly praised Kamala--something you conveniently ignore in your effort to start a fight

I will only say that people inherently want to believe in a sense of fairness. That means for Kamala as well as for Joe Biden. If they see something that does not seem "right" it will register.

[mcar]

26. I didn't use the word ambush

And disagreeing with your take is not trying to start a fight - it's disagreeing.

[Andy823]

37. She did not go to far

And if any candidate can not take the back and forth in a primary debate, how will the be able to handle someone like trump?

[hlthe2b]

39. ahh another one...

Are you related to one of the other "to far" [sic] (i.e., too far) posters? They are reproducing like rabbits!

[Andy823]

40. Wow!

Great come back.

Now why not address my comment. How will any candidate take on trump if they can't handle the heat in the primaries.

[llmart]

29. I'm interested in your personal experiences of busing as someone who spent her early years...

in the South. You don't have to answer any of my questions of course, but I truly am interested in your experiences of busing. How old were you when you went to school in the South? Or maybe I mean to say, what years did you attend school when you were in the South? Was it in NC? Were you personally affected by busing? After reading through this thread (my disclaimer is that I did not watch the debate), my first reaction was that I can see how some people would take offense to her response to Biden, but I can also see that most people realize that all candidates make gaffes that they wished they could take back, but they are human (with the exception of Trump, of course). After all, who's the king of gaffes on our side? Biden. I love the man myself, but if we're going to be fair, Kamala did try to make clear that she was not calling Biden a racist.

Here's my personal experience with busing. I'm white, female, born and raised in a lily white rural area of Ohio, living there for the first 35 years of my life. My two children were born there and lived there until they were in ninth grade and fifth grade respectively. Then my husband of the time was offered a transfer to Charlotte, NC and we moved in 1985. When enrolling my children in school, I learned all about busing and it's history in Charlotte. In high school, my son spent something like 45 minutes on his bus ride even though we lived about 20 minutes from the school. Being a teenager he complained at the start about the length of time he was on the bus, and because I never molly coddled my kids, my response to him was, "well, then read a book or do some homework or something." He soon learned to get used to it and not to complain to me about it. I did look into trying to understand why his commute was so lengthy and did think that maybe they could have changed the bus route in some way, but I assumed that the school system had more input on how to devise bus routes than I had.

As a mother, I did think that it was ludicrous to spend so much time on the bus every day, but I understood the concept of what they were trying to achieve. Maybe in hindsight it wasn't well thought out, but a Sociology professor that I had in college used to say that any great social movement begins with just trying something different, and whether it fails or not, it's at least a starting point to address the social issue you're trying to address. The professor was my age, boomers who came of age during the time of great change in the 60's.

As an aside, when I got my first job after moving there, I worked with an African American woman whom I got to know as a friend and she told me that she was one of the very first girls to be a part of busing in S. Carolina. She told me of her experiences, only some of which I remember now. I also worked with a Southern white guy whose wife graduated from the same high school my son did in the initial years of busing and she went on to teach in the head start program. She told me that if it wasn't for busing, she would probably have never had to interact with an African American kid growing up. The same is true of my children. Busing may not have turned out to be a perfect solution, but it helped to shine a light on the inequalities in education.

[hlthe2b]

34. It was controversial at the time, despite the seeming assumption today that it was not.

I was in the deep South, my parents being among those American who'd begun to transfer for their jobs every few years to better their economic options. I was in several Deep Southern states from 2nd grade intermittently through high school. I experienced long-distance busing ripped from friends I'd just managed to make, but I was already accustomed to making new ones and my sister and I had attended schools with considerable racial, ethnic and national diversity since pre-school. So, I feel as though we were perfectly suited for busing, even though we didn't like all that travel and lost after-school time. I'm quite familiar with the "white flight" phenomenon. Thankfully, my parents were tolerant, progressive people beyond their time and were accustomed to living among all kinds of people during their past international work. They passed those values to us as well.

I contrast that with the experience of African American families whose children were bused sometimes more than an hour each way with tremendous anxiety as to what awaited them at these unfamiliar locales and from people who were not always fully welcoming. I made some of my best friends among these transferring students during that period. They followed me through high school and in some cases beyond. But, it was not always pleasant for them or for others. Change is scary.

I heard a piece on NPR a few years ago about the problems of communities re-segregating. It did an in-depth look at the success and failures (and the history) of forced busing and desegregation. It was interesting and revealing. Since then I've read a lot--including the very mixed attitudes of black civil rights leaders on whether or not forced busing was the best approach. I think it worked well in some settings and miserably in others. Not all who believed that local control should determine the best course for desegregating schools were racists or segregationists. Some really believed that a one size fit all approach was not the best one. It was complicated. It was an intense period, filled both with good intentions and those few who fought every effort at every turn.

It is something we should talk about. But, I can not be quiet when some suggest the answers were so clear. Suggesting that those who did not immediately and automatically favor Federally forced busing were malign for thinking so is too simplistic, IMO at least in some cases. I realize that the period currently under discussion was years after Brown v Board of Education and that more people had come to realize that--short of Federally forced busing, some locales would never change. That's fair. I'm just saying it was not so obvious early on and anger was flowing from all sides. It wasn't "cut and dry"...

Every time period has its context. It is hard for those who did not experience it in real time to appreciate that. As a result we see history through blinders. We need to fight that, IMO.

[llmart]

35. Thank you for your reply.

It sounds like you are about the age of my oldest. Parental influence is so important and I knew that and used it to teach my children. They would definitely qualify as two people who grew up with white privilege and I knew that from the start and decided it was my responsibility to teach them that others weren't so fortunate, even their own mother who grew up in poverty.

My son will say that he now is so appreciative of what I taught him. My daughter will only sort of joke that "everything was a lesson with my Mom".

[IluvPitties]

8. Tweety is nuts.

[watoos]

12. Tweety, how can you not have hatred

towards Alec Trabek for asking all of those hard questions on Jeopardy that you got wrong.

When Tweety says something, believe the opposite.

I go back to when Tweety was in a fight with Phil Donahue over whether we should invade Iraq. Donahue was opposed and Tweety was pro, msnbc fired Donahue, too bad, msnbc made a mistake.

[MarcA]

38. MSNBC, Actually Comcast, didn't consider it a mistake. n/t

[MySideOfTown]

13. It wasn't just just black people

bussed to white schools.

For me, a young white kid bussed to a mostly black school, it was an enlightening experience. I made a lot of friends with people I wouldn't have met otherwise.

Positive enlightening experience.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. You've got it backwards. It could have been a great opportunity for Harris.

I didn't see it and I'm not inclined to follow up, partly because you declined to report how she reacted.

I am thinking it would be a great opportunity to show her ability to unite people rather than divide.

That's how I would have responded.

[Baitball Blogger]

20. Children don't grow up with dreams of being militant.

They grow up with the belief that they just need to work hard to assimilate, because there's no other option.

[Faux pas]

27. Ef

chris matthews

[LovingA2andMI]

28. So Chris is asking....

If Kamala Hates Her Spouse -- Who Is a Caucasian Male....

What a STUPID question. Point Blank!

[NastyRiffraff]

36. He tried to trick her into a really stupid response

He forgot whom he was dealing with. Kamala is a lot smarter than Chris Matthews. And she's not a hater.

[Uncle Joe]

43. Whenever I see or listen to Matthews, I want to hate white people,

and I'm white.


Thanks for the thread Soph.