Kamala's attack on Biden was months in the making

[brooklynite]

Politico

While walking through her planned exchange with Biden over busing, Harris’ campaign planned for a variety of answers from him, from contrition to a more measured approach to the more forceful denial of the position that he ended up giving — a stance that was called out by fact-checkers as untrue given his past quotes rejecting the wisdom of busing.

Harris herself ended up settling on a line that within minutes would appear in social media memes and just a few hours later would be screen printed on t-shirts selling for $29 on her website: “That little girl was me,” she said, of her desegregated class.

“You replay the thing and it seems like she was having a conversation with him,” a Harris campaign official said in playing back the encounter. The point she drove home, the aide added, was “this was something that meant something to me.”

Under no scenario did they consider Biden offering her such a gift to conclude the exchange: “My time is up,” Biden said. “I’m sorry.”

[msongs]

1. marketing shirts. does the DNC get a cut of the sales? nt

[RHMerriman]

2. Probably not ...

Harris' Hail Mary was just that: "Look at me!"

Biden was at 45 percent favorable with AA: she was at 5. Pretty obvious what this pathetic little flap was all about.

FWIW, the Berkeley public schools were NOT de jure segregated by race, as well; attendance was organized by residential neighborhoods, which meant de facto by wealth, but unless you're going to say housing prices are something to be regulated by the federal government, it's a moot point.

See:

[link:https://www.berkeleyschools.net/2018/12/50th-anniversary-of-berkeleys-pioneering-busing-plan-for-school-integration/|]

Pretending the child of two University of California PHds - in Berkeley - in the 1970s was somehow underprivileged is ludicrous.

It's a stupid argument, a cheap shot, and generally makes her look both cynical and emotionally manipulative, which is not a winning look for someone trying to get political support from across a diverse party that wants to see Trump defeated in 2020.

Self-righteousness - especially against a fellow Democrat - is not going to work.

[emmaverybo]

4. + 1000

[RHMerriman]

8. Thanks...

I'm the exact same age as the Senator, and from the same state. One of my parents was a farmhand; the other was a salesclerk.

Damn few of the kids I grew up with KNEW where the University of California was...

None of them, obviously, had two parents who earned their Phds. there... and then went on to teach at Stanford and McGill.

What a terrible childhood she must have had...

[R B Garr]

16. Thanks for the facts. Saddling fellow Democrats with inane

banter about busing is really a stupid idea, especially at a time like this when people are tuning in to contrast Democrats and here is a display of absolutely inanity. Forty —fifty years ago busing is not on people’s minds.

So much for “progressives” being for the future. JFC, this is the biggest farce ever.

Barbara Boxer, her predecessor, was just on the Hardball rerun calling out Harris’ line about a food fight not helping Americans, and then Harris launched into a decades old waste of time —busing. Unbelievable. Horrible judgment.

Boxer said this opens her up to more scrutiny, and you’re right — two PhD’s from Berkeley are not underprivileged. Her dad came out a couple months ago to correct her claim about pot smoking in the family.

[RHMerriman]

21. When I was in the service, we had a term for this kind of activity...

When I was in the service, we had a term for this kind of activity...

The polite euphemism for it was "blue falcon."

[R B Garr]

34. Oh! Just looked up that term, and it seems to fit.

I must admit I started having doubts about her stories when it came out that her own father renounced her pot smoking story. Your posts are spot on.

[RHMerriman]

38. Doesn't it, though?

Doesn't it, though?

The senator has accomplished a lot in her life. Minimizing the realities of the advantages she was given by her parents, and the resources of the communities where they chose to raise her and her sister, however, is ridiculous.

It makes her look shallow, honestly.

[Cha]

62. Mahalo for telling us about Barbara Boxer

calling it out, RB. It affected people with 180 degree reactions. Many loved it.. and many did not.

My line is.. she said Biden is not a "racist" right before she threw a "plate of Spaghetti at him".

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=180493

Did she say she smoked pot or someone in her family did?

It does open her up to more scrutiny and I wish it had never been started.

But, she felt she had to do it.. and here we are. Busing or not to bus.

Biden was pure class in his tweet about how she is being attacked.

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

69. Hi Cha! Boxer was great. Made me miss her a lot. She was not inflammatory

and baiting. I've copied a Politico story with the quote from Harris's father about denouncing her family pot smoking comment. The quote is quite scathing. What's disappointing is that I voted for Kamala because Obama endorsed her, and here she is implying Obama's VP is a racist and bringing up inflammatory ancient history that she is manipulating on top of that. Democrats arguing about a 40 year old dead issue is just a complete gift to Republicans. Amazingly bad judgment.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/20/kamala-harris-father-pot-1176805

His quote:

“My dear departed grandmothers (whose extraordinary legacy I described in a recent essay on this website), as well as my deceased parents, must be turning in their grave right now to see their family’s name, reputation and proud Jamaican identity being connected, in any way, jokingly or not with the fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking joy seeker and in the pursuit of identity politics,” he wrote.
“Speaking for myself and my immediate Jamaican family, we wish to categorically dissociate ourselves from this travesty,” he added.

Have a great day, Cha!

[Cha]

70. Thank you for that, RB!

I think I saw something about that at the time but nothing seemed like a big deal with the Dem candidates.. with me looking at the big picture.

But now.. as been said she opened herself up to more scrutiny.

I see she dropped 5 points in Morning Consult.. I'm really curious as to why!?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287181483

Mahalo.. G'Day to you!

[guillaumeb]

19. To your points:

FWIW, the Berkeley public schools were NOT de jure segregated by race, as well;
attendance was organized by residential neighborhoods, which meant de facto by wealth, but unless you're going to say housing prices are something to be regulated by the federal government, it's a moot point.

In a country where wealth is racially unequal, this de facto segregation by wealth was the result of earlier de jure segregation by race.

And that segregation has never been eliminated.

Yes, Harris did not grow up in a slum, but she and her parents knew how they were regarded by many white Americans.

And Harris did not say she was underprivileged, she said she was treated unequally.

As to the two candidates, and their support, Biden has enormous name recognition stretching for decades versus Harris being largely unknown outside of California.

[TeamPooka]

64. why would they?

[Arkansas Granny]

3. That's called preparation.

[emmaverybo]

7. Misrepresenting herself was part and parcel of that preparation. NT

[tishaLA]

17. Are you suggesting that she wasn't part of the second group of children

to be bused in her area? Or that she doesn't think people talking about the civility of segregationists, one of whom said pro-segregation efforts were being stymied by “black, slimy, juicy, unbearably stinking n****rs" and called for the genocide of black folks is hurtful?

[guillaumeb]

18. Well said.

And she knows, her parents know, that no matter what they accomplish, a certain segment of Americans will always see them as less than equal.

[emmaverybo]

22. Harris was bused in a program her local school board voted for unanimously. She was not bused

under Federal mandate, but local authority.

[tishaLA]

23. She never claimed she was bused under federal mandate

It's rather rich when someone belittling Sen Harris for allegedly misrepresenting her experience, ends up misrepresenting what she said.

[emmaverybo]

28. Her story was about a little girl whose attending a better school would have been prevented by

Biden’s vote had the Federal mandate not passed. Also, Biden’s vote could have prevented Berkley
from integrating schools.
This is not true.
Otherwise, what was the point of her story?
Biden did not vote to ban local authority or states from implementing busing programs, such as the one under which Harris was bused.
She would have been bused regardless of the Federal mandate.

[tishaLA]

31. Show me where in the transcript that happened

Here's the text:

I was actually very–it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputations and career on segregation of race in this country. And it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose bussing. And you know, there was a little girl in California who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools and she was bussed to school every day and that little girl was me. So, I will tell you that on this subject, it cannot be an intellectual debate among democrats. We have to take it seriously. We have to act swiftly.

Note: She didn't misrepresent it at all and, in fact, the person accusing her of it is the one misrepresenting her.

[emmaverybo]

40. She does not have to add that she was bused under a local program, not through federally mandated

busing law. She implied, by leaving out that fact, and juxtaposing her story to Biden’s opposition to Federally mandated, that she benefited from the law he opposed. And that is the interpretation she meant people to make. Many have.
When you imply something not true, you mislead.
Harris misled the audience by implying that Biden voted against a law that, because it was passed, enabled her to get the education she needed to grow up to be successful.
So she misrepresented the facts—Federally mandated busing did not enable her to access quality education in an integrated school. Her local school board integrated schools and implemented busing.
He referenced local authority after she attacked his opposition.
Biden did not oppose local authority to integrate schools.
In essence, Biden did not oppose equal education for “that little girl.”

[tishaLA]

41. You still haven't told me where in the transcript she said the things

you have misrepresented her as saying. I'm not talking about how an emotional interpretation of her comments might strike someone; I'm talking about what she said. You have the text right there: show it to me

[emmaverybo]

42. I guess you don't understand "imply." But she did. She understood exactly what she was implying. And

What she implied was false.
Not playing anymore.
That she implied Biden would have opposed her education and her school’s integration is obvious from the numbers of people who echo her in leveling the same accusation now.

[tishaLA]

43. No, I understand that some may have an emotional interpretation

of her words that isn't borne out by the transcript of what she said. I suppose anyone can interpret anything to mean anything with enough emotion and a good deal of willfulness, but I'm dealing with textual facts.

[emmaverybo]

45. The meaning in text or speech depends on context, situation, what is said and not said, how said,

juxtaposition of one passage to another, and works often by what is implied rather than stated.

I have gone over context.

Her story+her accusation to Biden= she implied he opposed her access to education and her school
integrating.

He did not.

She misled. She benefited from localized authority and implementation over busing.

Biden supported using localized authority to bus, not federal law.

Will ignore you if you respond with a transcript.

[tishaLA]

47. Signature, Event, Context (SEC)

by Derrida talks about this a lot and, as brilliant as he was as a philosopher, and as important as his work has been in influencing my own and others, even he could not pretend to make Sen Harris' words means something they didn't. But that's because he analyzed texts rather than engaging in emotional interpretations.

Me? I just how how certain folks are willfully misrepresenting what she said so they can try to....what? Score a point after another candidate has been pummeled? Hope that lying about what she says will make someone else's lack of preparation less apparent? I'm not sure. But chacun à son goût

[emmaverybo]

49. He was not prepared well enough. And she misled and used manipulative tactics to attack her

opponent.
Her personalized argument as understood by the vast majority of listeners meant what she meant it to.

[tishaLA]

50. She told the truth about him lauding the civility of segregationists

one of whom had said pro-segregation efforts were being stymied by “black, slimy, juicy, unbearably stinking n****rs" and called for the genocide of black folks ("When in the course of human events it becomes necessary to abolish the Negro race, proper methods should be used. Among these are guns, bows and arrows, slingshots and knives”), things she finds hurtful. I believe, or at least hope, most Americans can understand why she' construe them in that way.

She also told the truth about being in the second class of students busing in Oakland.

Those who have criticized her have often lied about what she said, misrepresented it, or provided emotional interpretations not supported by the text.

[emmaverybo]

51. Right, he respected the mutual civility he and those of opposing viewpoints used to "get the job

done.” She interpreted his “praise” for civility as “coddling” and praising segregationists.
Right, she was in the second class of a locally authorized busing program.

[tishaLA]

52. Yes, praising the "civility" of those who advocate

black genocide....how could that possibly be hurtful? And why didn't she lie and say her busing program was federally mandated? I can see how an emotional interpretation of that might make it seem like a misrepresentation. Or something.

[Igel]

55. The quick answer to this is an example.

"I forgot money for lunch. Do you have $10?"

"No, I don't."

Then, 20 minutes later, the guy pulled two 20s out of his wallet.

He's accused of lying. He didn't. He didn't have $10. He had $40. What he said was factually correct.

Derrida's bloviation aside, the phrase in question is "conversational implicature." That goes back to the '60s and Grice. Nobody as useful in academic research these days because he sought understanding of what was said not making what was said mean what the speaker probably never imagined.

Or you could consider Stalnaker's work on relevance. By telling a story about busing in the context of federal mandates, the story was under the usual rules of implicature relevant only if it involved federal mandates. Again, we violate implicature and come across as those who routinely game the system--used car salesmen, lawyers, and politicians. People can't put their finger on why they conclude that the truth was a lie, and it goes to the underlying "rules of the game". For that, Grice is heads and shoulders above Derrida.

(Of course, my example's a bit more than that: Contexts, not just quantifiers, can also be downward or upward entailing.)

[tishaLA]

56. You can go after Derrida all you want. I'm not interested nor am I playing

take care

[emmaverybo]

60. Interesting. Very. NT

[TeamPooka]

65. you are either deliberately misrepresenting her potition in her anecdote or it went over

your head, and you missed the point behind the story that she explained during the exchange.
Thanks for playing though

[ucrdem]

67. I watched the exchange and read the transcript. The poster is correct.

Harris wasn't entirely coherent but basically used phrases to created an impression. That plus the emotional tone was the whole kit and kaboodle. When you look at what was said, Biden won.

[Laurian]

5. I just made another donation to Joe.

I don’t have a lot to give, but this is my way of saying that I find scorched earth tactics (by any of the candidates) disheartening and I will not be swayed by them.

[emmaverybo]

46. You reminded me. Our small donations do say "with you Joe" and they add up! NT

[George II]

6. It was too rote for it to have been a spur of the moment emotion.

I've spoken to a number of people since Thursday night, most of them think that interchange did her more harm than it did Biden. Even my wife, who is as apolitical as anyone I know (she didn't even vote the six times I ran for office in the past) said she was very angry with her for doing that.

[SidDithers]

9. One candidate strategized, planned and prepared...

and the other didn’t.

And we’re suppose to feel bad for the one who didn’t do his homework?

No thanks.

Sid

[Andy823]

11. +100000 nt

[Thekaspervote]

12. I don't think anyone "feels" bad for Biden. He was just being himself..a gentleman and a scholar

[RHMerriman]

13. One attacked a fellow Democrat...

One attacked a fellow Democrat...

And one didn't.

Says volumes, doesn't it?

[Thekaspervote]

10. She certainly didn't do herself any favors..poll bump or not

[JI7]

15. if it helped her and hurt him in polls how can you say it did her no favors ?

[emmaverybo]

48. One's reputation and trustworthiness goes beyond polls. Win or lose, those who practice "stunts."

Argue and attack by misleading and misrepresenting do turn off people whose support they may need someday.
Integrity in the political fight still means something.

[Thekaspervote]

57. This

[Demsrule86]

25. I am not sure she gets a poll bump.

[emmaverybo]

30. If she does, she will have to earn it honestly in future to sustain it. She can not continue to

rely on stunts which misrepresent facts.

[Demsrule86]

32. True that...and the long knives will now be out...I hate to see a circular firing squad forming...we

have lost so many elections that way.

[emmaverybo]

33. I agree. Don't know why I thought this might be different. Well, maybe a learning curve.

[cwydro]

14. I think that's clear.

Whether or not it helps or hurts her is still NOT clear.

I like them both. Wish the whole thing could have been handled differently.

[Jarqui]

20. I was looking at the tweeted picture

She was born in 1964.
If that picture was taken around the time she was eight, Joe wasn't even in the Senate so how is he responsible for her busing at that time?
If she was ten in the picture, how is a man who was a senator for less than two years responsible for her busing?

I'm still assessing right and wrong between the two politicians here but choosing to use that photo which is misleading and the timing of it being tweeted at the end of the debate is a strike against Harris. This was a political attack that seemed more calculated to damage rather than carry a substantive point fairly.

Harris currently leaves me with an uneasy suspicion of dishonesty or slight of hand.

[emmaverybo]

24. Harris was bused under a program her local school board voted for, not by Federal mandate. Biden

mentioned local authority to her.
However, she, intentionally I believe, wanted to give the impression that Biden’s vote could have prevented Berkley schools from becoming integrated and her from attending a superior school in an affluent area of her town.
This impression would not be based on facts.

[Demsrule86]

27. The entire thing was fake and looked contrived as more info comes out...my guess is she takes

a hit in the polls.

[Thekaspervote]

58. Your last sentence says it all

[Paladin]

26. If it was months in the making, then Biden had plenty of time to prepare for it.

And he didn't. I'll take present-day, sharp-edged planning over antiquated, play-nice tactics every time. And I say that without any joy, because I've always liked Biden.

[Demsrule86]

29. prepare for a question about a 50 year old failed policy? Sorry she looked bad...only a matter of

time before it is clearly shown that the entire thing was inaccurate...the t-shirts show it was self-serving.

[Paladin]

35. You're not going to like Maureen Dowd's column in today's NYT.

Just a friendly heads-up for you.

[Demsrule86]

36. She has done hit piece after hit piece...lets see what happens...the media is doing their best to

take Biden down...and mark my words...we lose three state that neither Harris, Warren or others (besides Biden ) can win. Trump gets four more years, and we are truly fucked. Ginsberg won't last another Trump term. Moderates took the house in 18...and the votes we need will come from the rust belt.

[Demsrule86]

37. A heads up anyway...I still say that Harris's attacks will backfire and that few voters care about a

50 year old failed policy...we want to win Biden can win the states we need.

[Thekaspervote]

59. Maureen Dowd is no friend to any democrat

[Demsrule86]

68. I bet you wont like the polls now showing Biden lost well nothing and

Sen Harris is being called out for some of her actions as attorney general...all over the internet this morning... more recent and relevent stories than the 50 yearold busing stuff. I expect she has a temporary bump.

[Jarqui]

39. I might accept that if her challenge was fair and accurate

But I do not think that was the case here.

Kamala was pretty high on my preference list.
I have a problem with lack of integrity.
This was a calculated hit job not fairly based upon the facts.
She's slipped down my list.
She better re-discover fairness and clean this up or she'll stay there.

[brooklynite]

44. How is it a "hit job"?

Either the issue is relevant or it’s not. If it’s relevant, the challenge is acceptable, and if Harris didn’t bring it up, you can rely on the Republicans to. If it’s not relevant, Biden should have been prepared to explain why.

Bottom line, Biden should have have a response ready if the issue was potentially going to come up.

[Jarqui]

54. The busing decision that directly affected Kamala Harris happened

in 1969 and was implemented in 1969 ... four years before Biden became a senator.

As Biden said

"The fact is that, in terms of busing, the busing, .... — you would have been able to go to school the same exact way because it was a local decision made by your city council. "

Biden's statement there is correct. Biden had no say if Kamala was on that bus or not.

Busing was a complex issue for decades - much of it occurring before many people today were alive. And before Biden even became a senator - including the local decision on busing for Kamala Harris.

Debate rules allow 30? seconds for a response. You could start rehearsing in 1776 and probably never get a response right - particularly one to something that was not fairly grounded in perspective or the facts.

[Paladin]

66. NOBODY in the Democratic field has more experience than Joe Biden.

Last edited Sun Jun 30, 2019, 01:00 PM - Edit history (1)

If anybody should have known that a "calculated hit job" was headed his way, it should have been Joe Biden. Hell, what else are primaries, except a continuous series of "calculated hit jobs"?

Walking past my TV just now, I saw the 1977 footage of Joe Biden expressing his clear opposition to busing. Given the racial diversity of this year's Democratic field, Biden should have been well prepared for blowback on this issue. He wasn't, and I'm sorry he wasn't. If trashing Kamala Harris' personal integrity makes you feel better, have at it---after all, it's primary season...

[Glorfindel]

53. Really? "Kamala" and "Biden"? Why not "Harris" and "Joe"?

How long will we keep up this call-the-GIRL-by-her-first-name but give the MAN the respect of calling him by his last name? Any remarks made after such a headline become meaningless. And on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, at that.

[ecstatic]

61. Honestly, that level of preparation is impressive BUT...

Why on earth are we hearing about this? On one hand, you can't help but be impressed by the level of preparation involved; but on the other hand, it adds to the "overly calculated" argument. I assume her campaign thinks the good will outweigh the bad? The problem is, she used Biden, a guy who everyone loves, as a pawn to showcase her ability to destroy an opponent's character on the debate stage. So in that respect, the bad might outweigh the good.

And now we have Biden on Twitter sticking up for her against the "she's not black" rumors, which have already been playing out and doing major damage WAY before she even announced her run. My gut reaction is that, despite the gushing from talking heads on TV, it's NOT a good look. Just like it would not have been a good look for Biden to obliterate Kamala on the stage. Maybe he could have but chose not to because he's wise enough to know better.