Y'all DO realize that some of the Harris-Biden fights here are eerily similar to the 2016 battles

[EffieBlack]

we later learned were cultivated and ginned up on Russian troll farms, right?

I mean, really - just look at the OPs on the first page of the forum. Just about every one of them is an attack on Harris or on Biden. And the threads are full of accusations and in-fighting between the two camps.

Why do you think that is? Because they’re seen as the FRONTRUNNERS.

And until a few days ago, Biden bore the brunt of these kinds of negative posts. But since the debate, Harris has now joined him as the target of head on and relentless attacks.

I recommend we scale back some of this in-fighting.

This isn’t a scold - I’ve been doing it, too. But a couple of days being offline gave me a perspective.

We need to chill and not fall right back into the trap being set for us.

[saidsimplesimon]

1. Thank you

[stonecutter357]

2. K&R

[Turin_C3PO]

3. Yes.

[RHMerriman]

4. Good point ... of course, those of who were saying the same thing three days ago

Good point ... of course, those of who were saying the same thing three days ago are pleased by your movement to this position.

Could have come more quickly, although.

Stabbing one's friends in the back is never a good move.

[Bok_Tukalo]

5. It has to be resolved. The argument is legitimate.

For my part, I think it is probably best that it is being conducted in the summer of 2019 instead of the summer of 2020.

[EffieBlack]

6. I'm not talking about a difference of opinion about issues

This has gone far beyond that.

[Bok_Tukalo]

12. The Democratic Party has to confront whether it will forgive the past.

Even Obama was opposed to gay marriage at one time. And he is a contemporary. Biden has been in politics since the 70's. That's a lot of bags to carry. Will we forgive the "old heads" their machinations in a context that would be unheard of in contemporary American politics?

[EffieBlack]

13. I think you're missing my point

[Bok_Tukalo]

15. Wouldn't be the first time.

<OPE>

[UniteFightBack]

8. What argument is 'legitimate' and needs to be 'resolved'...I mean really. nt

[pazzyanne]

22. Just read this and it puts things into a perspective

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/her-ambition-got-it-wrong-about-joe-harris-faces-debate-backlash/ar-AADEmEn?ocid=spartanntp

[UniteFightBack]

24. I think this will be the sentiment with anyone who goes negative. Beto is right on this one. nt

[3Hotdogs]

32. She begins by telling about riding the school bus. --- or not riding it. I'm not sure which one.

If she had used that as a start point to talk about her wishes and plans for the future, that would have been good.

Instead, out comes the race card against Biden.

[StarfishSaver]

38. You're doing exactly what the OP is describing

[3Hotdogs]

42. I promise you, I ain't no Russian troll. My reaction to her is original to me.

If you want proof I am not from Leningrad, come to Essex County N.J. and I will buy you a beer.

She is the next to last person I will support in the primary. Last is Kristin.

My present fav. now, is Eliz., followed by Bernie.

[StarfishSaver]

59. I'm not suggesting anyone here is a troll

But plenty of people here are swallowing the troll Kool-Aid in giant gulps.

[R B Garr]

61. Do tell. Have you noticed all that since April 2019?

Such focus is really admirable.

[StarfishSaver]

66. Yes. It would be hard for anyone to miss the giant slurping sound

Except maybe the ones doing the slurping.

[R B Garr]

69. Ah, a slurpee expert to boot.

Well done

[Kahuna7]

70. Yep. nt

[True Dough]

9. I'll second that

Now isn't the time to be tippy-toeing around some legitimate issues.

[IronLionZion]

11. Agreed, this is exactly the time to hash it out

and come together next year to win

[JI7]

7. just look at the trashy ass trump family

that's what makes me angry.

[UniteFightBack]

10. Agree. NanceGreggs just did a similar OP and I'm with it although it's probably a pipe dream. nt

[dalton99a]

14. You want THIS to succeed the throne in 2024?

[marylandblue]

16. The problem is that the differences are real.

Russian propaganda doesn't create the differences, it only makes them worse. And it works by putting us in a bind. We really don't agree with each other, but if we simply stop arguing, it solves nothing because we still don't agree, and don't feel any better. The only way to solve the problem is to resolve the original difference, but that may be impossible. This is how nations die, even if there is no Russia to help it along.

[Docreed2003]

18. K&R.

[AlexSFCA]

19. I adore both of them

as well as Pete and Warren but BS is extremely divisive and dangerous to our party.

[DURHAM D]

20. I am shocked at the sexist posts

Senator Harris has a lady parts problem on DU already.

[SidDithers]

43. Yup...

Sid

[MrsCoffee]

67. Yep. Here we go again.

[betsuni]

21. Yes! Emotions are being manipulated.

People lose all objectivity and reason. The goal is make the person an evil cartoon monster like last time. But this time it seems to be happening so quickly.

The pedophile thing is a dream come true for propaganda. They had to make pizzagate up out of thin air last time.

[Hekate]

23. Thanks. I'm getting pretty disgusted.

[Iggo]

25. I do.

[Afromania]

26. Some folks have been quite transparent in this regard.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. I agree. This was beginning to worry me, too.

We shouldn't take the bait, because that's exactly what it is. That's not accusing DUers of being trolls, but it's so tempting to engage in an argument when some incident or statement is thrown out as "proof" that some candidate (other than the one you support, of course) is unworthy. None of them are unworthy and none of them are perfect. But let's not tear down every little tree to the point where we don't have a forest anymore.

[tulipsandroses]

28. I won't be feeding the trolls

Ive said candidates can be criticized and questioned. I still believe that. But there is obvious trolling going on now I believe. Heck, I think I am being accused of being a troll? LOL - Someone didn't like how I
worded my thoughts so now I'm not really black? LOL - Some of this is getting bonkers. LOL

But I agree Effie- I really sense some of this is Russian Trolling. Outside of DU - This has been going on with Sen Harris for sometime. Malcolm Nance was on tv talking about some of this earlier today re: The Russian Trolling of the black community and how it relates to Sen Harris. He only talked about it in relation to the She's not black part of it - but that was pushed out there a while ago with all the stuff that is being posted now - pushing the Kamala is cop Rhetoric. Later on Roland Martin was on another program and he was talking about it again and he kept saying there were black people saying the same thing and they ought to be ashamed - I can't remember the name of the guest - but he kept saying that research showed that a lot of those people WERE NOT real black people- They were Russian Trolls and bots.

As for myself, if it doesn't pass my smell test. I won't be responding.

[JoeOtterbein]

29. Why would you think we are stupid enough to be punked by RW or even Russian trolls?

I don't think we would not even be on DU if we were that ignorant.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

39. It happened in 2016.

[SidDithers]

44. Because it's happened before...nt

Sid

[greatauntoftriplets]

30. Yup, it's deja vu all over again.

I'm trying to stay out of it by barely posting in this forum.

[WheelWalker]

31. I recommend we follow your recommendation.

[ecstatic]

33. I've had this feeling lately that we are not the ones

controlling the discussion. The bait is being tossed at us by trolls, and then well meaning people are getting caught up and emotional over it. Just like in 2016. The trolls are laughing their asses off right now. They have been hard at work tearing down all of the candidates, way before we even started thinking about 2020.

Also, that's why I cringe when people suggest that clearing Biden from the field will solve all of our problems. No! They have a list of offenses that they will bring up to attack every front runner from the left. That's why it's crucial that we drop this zero tolerance stance for every mistake made over that past 30 years. None of our candidates are electable under that standard.

[Andy823]

35. Exactly

It's been going on for awhile, but this last week has seen a surge in negative posts, shit stirring, and obvious trolling.

2016 all over again, but instead of only two candidates for the trolls play games with, they have over 20 at the moment. It's sad to see so many DU posters getting caught up in the negativity, bashing, and arguments.

[FailureToCommunicate]

34. How quickly we forget.

[McKim]

36. Great Thought!

Great thought, we must not become addicted to conflict and fighting, that is the Trumpster way.
On some level we may have moved into a space where this behavior is more and more acceptable because it is everywhere in the public square. I would rather have a debate on the issues and more time for candidates to talk than a two minute sound byte. The sound byte atmosphere does not help voters make good decisions.

[Andy823]

37. Yes, and I also think

a lot of the same trolls are back trying to stir things up, and doing a pretty good job of it, sadly!

[onetexan]

40. Exactly what came to mind

[democratisphere]

41. I am sick of deja vu politics and a damn repeat of 2016.

The rethuglicons and russians would love to sit back and watch US self destruct.

[FiveGoodMen]

45. You're not suggesting that Harris' words in the debate came from Russia, surely

[wyldwolf]

47. Clinton vs Sanders, Obama vs Clinton, Kerry vs Dean

[crazytown]

65. Mister, I suspect you of hoarding Stolli in the icebox :)

[BlueJac]

49. Bot spies and trouble makers...

fool me once...

[mopinko]

50. yup.. really disappointing. like- can we just skip the obvious sexism?

here's a clue for what is a sexist attack, and what isnt-
if it's about a woman candidate, and she is damned if she does and damned if she doesnt, you might just have your head stuck in a sexist smear.
and if a virtue is suddenly a vice, you might just have your head stuck in a sexist smear.

c'mon people.
y'all really disappointing me.

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. I just did a thread about beware of folks who want to show you polls all the time, as they

too are being used to divide us.

You make a GREAT point, as usual!

[Me.]

52. Shoot...Some Don't Care

They want what they want and will try any tactic to achieve it even if it means damaging Dem's chances in 2020.

We had a different powerful fem Dem leader being pounded just a few weeks ago. What could that be about?

[Galraedia]

53. Harris started this when she called her democratic opponent racist to score sympathy points

Okay, she inferred it but everyone in their right mind knew what she meant. And she did it to the vice president of the first African American president and the least racist white guy in America. What did she think was going to happen? That she would just use the opportunity in her pre-planned attack that she knew Biden would never have enough time to respond to and that it would be okay? Sure blame Biden for something that was taken out of context. Biden's opponents knew exactly that he wasn't okay with having to work with some of the people in the senate but that at least they were willing to work. Republicans that complain about democrats calling them racist are now laughing because now we're doing it to ourselves.

[tymorial]

54. I think we definitely need to look inward a little bit

We also need to be more vigilant in recognizing manipulation and helping others to recognize it without resorting to virtual shouting matches. It's great to be invested in one's candidate but if challenges from opponents cause personal feelings of raw anger, contempt and disgust... that's a problem. It speaks to why the manipulation is sometimes effective and we simply cannot afford the distraction and the division.

[Prof.Higgins]

55. Spot on. Stay united and Democratic nominee can't be defeated! eom

[Honeycombe8]

56. I always look to see how long the poster has been a member & how many posts.

That's a clue.

There's nothing they'll fight about that the Republicans won't. So it's best to know the weaknesses now and how they handle them.

Democrats fighting during the primary season is no big deal.

[Skid Rogue]

57. Yep

Some trolls are extra versatile. On one hand they are painting Harris as a power hungry mercenary, while making Biden look like a victim, as if he can't handle the challenge. They're actually harming two of our most promising chances to beat Trump.

[honest.abe]

58. Well said.

[democrattotheend]

60. Well said

Probably by the same people who ridiculously exaggerated the degree of divisions in the party post-2016 primaries, ignoring the fact that the vast majority of us who supported Bernie in the primaries supported Hillary in the general election.

[tulipsandroses]

62. I copied this from a thread that was posted last year. I tried to respond to it to bring it current

But that didn't work. I think it should probably be a thread of its own at the top of the page to serve as a reminder . It was posted by Oh-No Really - want to give credit to the original poster.


A compilation of stories being reported. The 2015 story is mind boggling. Again, reported in 2015, an interview with. Russian troll.

If you find any new stories please drop a note with link and I will add.

A Professional Russian Troll, who worked for Internet Research Agency named in Mr. Mueller's recent Indictment news, tells how the troll teams formula worked.

Reported by Radio Free Europe 2015
https://www.rferl.org/a/how-to-guide-russian-trolling-trolls/26919999.html

The interview is a fascinating read.

I have paraphrased one short version of the interview here:

HERE IS HOW THE INTERNET RESEARCH AGENCY TROLL FACTORY TEAM WORKS


Troll Disinformation Procedure Short Version:

1. Propaganada Department posts propaganda article that will be posted on selected public forums.

2. A 3-Member Troll team goes to each listed forum site and works the Formula:

2.a. Troll number one attacks the article/writer;
2.b. Troll number two supports writer/article and includes supporting picture/graphic; and
2.c. Troll number 3 also support propaganda with a link to a supporting propaganda article.

TRIPLE TEAM TROLL FORMULA Longer version

The former Russian troll spells out exactly how the trolls worked in tandem to sway public opinion.

Quote from the interview:

Someone in another Internet Research department

...."would write something on the forum -- some kind of news -- and our task was to comment on it.

We did it by dividing into teams of three.

One of us would be the "villain," the person who disagrees with the forum and criticizes the authorities, in order to bring a feeling of authenticity to what we're doing.

The other two enter into a debate with him -- "No, you're not right; everything here is totally correct."

One of them should provide some kind of graphic or image that fits in the context, and

the other has to post a link to some content that supports his argument. You see?

Villain, picture, link"

Very interesting read, written way back in 2015!

USA knew about the Russian indicted troll factory in 2015.


Also in 2015, Dutch intelligence alerted US FBI to Russian "Cozy Bear" hacking of Democratic National Committee during Hillary Clinton campaign
https://www.metro.us/news/the-big-stories/danish-spies-shared-intel-russian-cozy-bear

DonViego reported another Russian Troll speaking out recently as well. That is two so far!

A former Russian troll speaks: 'It was like being in Orwell's world' [View all]
By Anton Troianovski February 17 at 7:10 PM
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10251440

A THIRD RUSSIAN TROLL STORY by New York Times
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210254577#post3

CNN Russian Troll Story
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210260153

Daily Beast Troll Story - Featuring Samantha Bee
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-samantha-bees-full-frontal-tracked-down-russias-pro-trump-trolls

[EffieBlack]

63. Interesting

Thanks for sharing!

[betsuni]

64. Please do an OP!

It's important.

[Kaleva]

68. +1