'Her ambition got it wrong about Joe': Harris faces debate backlash

[DonViejo]

Biden supporters lash out against Kamala Harris.

By NATASHA KORECKI and CARLA MARINUCCI 06/30/2019 06:33 PM EDT Updated 06/30/2019 07:00 PM EDT

SAN FRANCISCO — Kamala Harris might be reveling in her sudden burst of attention after roasting Joe Biden over racial issues on the debate stage last week, but a backlash is already brewing.

Biden supporters and Democrats who have attended the former vice president’s events in the days after the first nationally televised debate, are describing Harris’ assault on Biden as an all-too-calculated overreach after she knocked him on his heels in a grilling over busing and his remarks on segregationist senators.

“She played low ball, which was out of character. And he didn’t expect it, nor did I,” said Lee White, a Biden supporter who attended his remarks at the Jesse Jackson Rainbow PUSH Coalition. “She should not have gone that route. She’s much too intelligent, she’s been able to be successful thus far, why do you have to do that.”

One major Biden supporter from California who declined to be named for publication said Harris’ direct attack on Biden was a mistake that would haunt her.

“It’s going to bite her in the ass,” the supporter noted. “Very early on there was buzz … Biden-Kamala is the dream ticket, the best of both worlds.’’

more
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/30/kamala-harris-joe-biden-2020-1391212

[qazplm135]

1. so it's an article

where Biden supporters weigh-in on why the attack might hurt her.

lol

[ucrdem]

5. It's a data point.

There's been plenty of data praising Harris to the skies for attacking Biden in the way that she did.

[brush]

102. Some backlash. Her poll numbers just doubled.

And Biden bought it on himself with the unforced error of talking about his interactions with long-forgotten segregationists when there are innumerable ways to demonstrate how he's worked with those of opposing views. I mean he's had a long career, why bring up racist senators and the term "boy" which is an insult to a large segment of the Dem party base?

[Demsrule86]

116. Big deal they were bad to begin with and as another poster noted...they have already began to

decline as news about her pre-planned attack emerge and looks like her time as DA and AG is finally being vetted...looked at it myself and post about it yesterday...not pretty.

[brush]

121. Her poll numbers doubled. Don't blame someone for being good at politics...

which is not bean bags. And btw, in your vetting of her AG record did you find out that she cleaned up the huge backlog of rape kits in California?

[qazplm135]

144. no it isn't

if your evidence is, the side attacked didn't think it fair, but the side attacking did...well, that's not really a data point of import for either side.

[DonViejo]

6. Did you read the entire article?

[qazplm135]

13. uh yeah

the first half was all Biden supporters, the second half was Harris defenders.
A total waste of electrons. Biden supporters didn't like, Harris supporters did. Shocking!

[DonViejo]

19. Pretty cool! I post an OP at 9:15 a.m. and three minutes later you've read the entire article...

AND wrote a comment about it! I want your speed reading and writing skills!

[still_one]

29. Evelyn Wood perhaps, for those who remember, of corse comprehension was something else with Evelyn

Wood

[bahrbearian]

93. Nobody ever goes to Polictical , We wait patiently for you to post it here. So we can read it here,

[qazplm135]

124. it's called being an attorney

so yeah, it was a pretty quick and easy read.

[awesomerwb1]

101. I'm neither a Biden supporter or Harris supporter

I didn't like it. She scored 0 points with me and anecdotal I know, but I have friends with similar opinions.

"I do not believe you are a racist...BUT....". Total turn off for me. I don't like those tactics but I guess it's ok if it's your candidate.

I'll support whoever the candidate is, but Kamala just went to 19th on my list just ahead of Gabbard. lol

[Cha]

150. Mahalo, awesome.. I think it's interesting

to hear anecdotal impressions from those who saw the whole thing.

I read something very similar from a Harris supporter, last night, whom I respect.

[LanternWaste]

138. Thankfully, no one at all is arguing or implying otherwise.

"it's an article..."
Thankfully, no one at all is arguing or implying otherwise.


lol, indeed.

[Jersey Devil]

2. I say let the fur fly

Low ball, high ball, bullshit. Unless we can see how our candidates react when someone tosses them into a cauldron we won't be able to adequately assess their abilities to take a punch and counter-punch. I see this as something that is necessary. Yes, I support Biden, but I want to be sure he can take it and dish it back if needed.

This is training. I want our nominee to be as tough as nails and not afraid to bring it when they have to.

[qazplm135]

15. exactly

if Harris is in front, then let her get the full testing too.

The winner will come out tough as nails and best able to respond to attacks.

[ucrdem]

20. That worked so well in 2016.

We heard the same dang arguments, day after day, pundit after pundit, about what a good thing it was to turn the primaries into an endless food fight. Which is what happened and what I predicted would happen.

[LeftTurn3623]

24. It worked in 2008

Obama was put through a tough test

[ucrdem]

27. LOL, nothing even close.

Yes, the Clinton campaign made a few innuendos, and got slapped down hard. But a full-on plate of hot spaghetti? Nothing close except maybe on AM talk radio. And this was not AM radio.

[BlueWI]

168. A few innuendos?

Holy double standard, Batman, on the race baiting.

Keywords from the Clinton camp says it all

Geraldine Ferraro
hardworking Americans, white Americans
reject AND denounce Louis Farrakhan
he doesn't steal cars (Bill Clinton's line)
etc.

There was much, much more from the general public of course, and Obama's campaign hit the right responsive notes, with Biden on the ticket. Biden needs to attain a similar standard of effectiveness, since issues of race IMO have continued to gain visibility and importance for voters. It's a whole different electorate than in 2012 or 2008. Time to adapt.

[chimpymustgo]

63. Good comparison to 2008. Young v old. I'm ready for young, hungry and ready.

[stopbush]

86. So, you predicted Russian interference would give tRump the POTUS?

[Chemisse]

122. And a last minute FBI announcement that the Dem candidate is under investigation? n/t

[Eyeball_Kid]

90. Nah, what we had in the 2016 primary was Debbie Wasserman Schultz (DNC chair)

demanding that HRC get nominated. DWS fell on her face when HRC lost to Obama in 2008 (she was HRC's campaign manager) and she wanted to undue her failure. Her ego meant more than the voice of the people. She dismissed HRC's competitors at every opportunity.

[brush]

105. Ya can't rewrite history. Sanders lost decisively despite his continual attack...

on the party—campaign long.

[treestar]

112. No, it does not work that way

They can all take it or they would not be where they are. They don't have to prove that. And even so, Dotard won and he can't take it at all. It's not a real factor.

It just leads to a general feeling that they all suck which depresses voter turnout.

[customerserviceguy]

123. It's going to

Sen. Harris, and anyone else who attacks a Democratic presidential contender below the belt has their own vulnerabilities to exploit in the same way.

Yes, the Trumpsters will do that anyway, but accusations have more force coming from a Democratic candidate than a lying GOPer.

[Act_of_Reparation]

3. I don't think she's hurting that bad, really.

Harris surges to third place in national poll after debate.

[marylandblue]

17. Exactly. She got the attention she wanted. Most people don't care

if it was calculated or whatever. What happens next has more to do with her own performance than any backlash. Now that she has our attention, she still needs to make a positive case for herself.

[Thekaspervote]

40. She has already lost 5 of the 8 pts she gained post debate

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287181483#post41

She did make a big money haul as reported

[brush]

107. Nope. It came out this morning she went from 6 to 12 percent.

Some backlash.

[Little Star]

4. Who needs republicans when we have

Kamala.

I'm still seething that any Dem would do what she did.

[Pachamama]

12. +10000

Same here....

[StarfishSaver]

14. You probably don't see the irony in your comment.

[KPN]

78. +1!

[brush]

113. Unforced error by Biden for bringing up segregationists and the term "boy"...

which is insulting to African Americans, an important segment of the party's base. Biden has to tighten up his game. He's known for gaffes but that was a blunder.

His staff has to be tearing their hair out, especially since he followed that blunder up at an appearance at a LBGTQ event by saying that "mocking gay waiters was ok five years ago." (he sould've said 25 years ago).

He's got to stop these missteps as he is the one who can wipe the floor with trump on the debate stage, as he did with Ryan in 2012.

Staff, please get with Joe and have him run remarks before hand pass diverse staffers.

[LakeArenal]

134. Some of don't think Joe needs advice.

[brush]

137. Seriously? Every candidate needs advice.

He could've gotten past the segregationist/boy comment two week before the debate if he had just apologized then instead of doubling down on it like he did. He also could've handled his response to Harris during the debate. It seemed like he was totally blindsided, as if he didn't expect anything would come up.

His staff didn't serve him well if they didn't prep him to be ready for something to come up during the debate about segregationist/boy remarks.

AAs and whites I dare say have a different perspective on the weight of those remarks. Perhaps therein lies the difference, but like it or not, AAs are a huge part of our base and no Dem can win without the AA vote.

[LakeArenal]

141. Well, I was trying to be nice.

[ucrdem]

7. Sometimes people raised in Berkeley forget that the rest of the world is different.

I think she utterly miscalculated on this one.

[stopbush]

87. Seriously?

[Renew Deal]

8. The people in this article think that Biden cannot be criticized

It’s very presumptuous. And him not being ready for these attacks is another sign that he is not ready to take on Trump.

[Merlot]

38. It may have beenn the only time a candidate quit talking when time was up.

Possibly trying to be polite and follow the rules, it made him sound like he was giving up.

The "calculated, ambitious, attacking (ie: scheming & coniving)" framing is old school sexist. How dare any woman stand up to an establishment (old, white male) candidate, indeed.

[ucrdem]

47. It made him sound like he knew when to quit.

Anything more he said would have bitten him in the ass even worse then finishing his thought in the time the format called for.

[Kahuna7]

54. Right. He was in a no win situation and knew it. Especially since...

Kamala seemed determined to continue the attack no matter what.

[ucrdem]

57. Yes, once she said "hurtful" anything more he said would have been called lashing out,

insensitive, angry old man, etc etc. Zipping it was by far the best way to go at that point.

[StarfishSaver]

61. And if she hadn't said it was hurtful to her and she just talked about his record

She would have been attacked as cold, calculating, calling him a racist, etc.

Of course, she was anyway - because no matter how black people try to talk about race, however gentle, however respectful, however gingerly, we are always accused of attacking, playing the race card, bringing it up at the wrong time, etc.

Instead of lashing out at her, I wish more people would think about what she was saying and do some self-reflection, not only about what she said but about why they are so angry and upset about it.

[R B Garr]

75. She said this was a calculated campaign move to confront

Biden, so there go your excuses as to her state of mind. It wasn’t a pure gingerly respectful approach to dredge up ancient history; it was, in fact, a calculated attack.

We all saw it on TV. Let’s not think we can manipulate people further by trying to deny what we all saw and what her campaign has admitted to.

[StarfishSaver]

96. The fact that she planned in advance to bring it up doesn't undercut my point at all

Unless you think the only appropriate way to discuss race is completely spontaneously without any of aforethought

Black people know we have to be very careful how we talk about race with and to white people and usually we must think through in advance just how we say anything.

Only white people have luxury of saying whatever there thinking in the moment, and if anyone takes offense, have the additional luxury of pushing back and saying "That's not what I meant, how dare you attack me, I'm not a racist and the fact that you don't like what I said is proof that YOUR motives are bad" and then expect an apology.

On the other hand when a black person says something that offends any white person, WE ARE the bad guy.

so, when Joe Biden makes comments about working with segregationists that many people found offensive, those who objected to his comments were attacked as being unfair, overly sensitive, playing the race card, etc. And, weirdly, the people who were offended owe him an apology for saying they were offended.

But then when, in a debate, Harris said something that some white people found offensive, the response is that SHE is at fault, SHE shouldn't have said that, SHE was unfair to HIM, HE is the victim, and SHE owes HIM an apology for offending him.

Somehow, no matter who says what to whom, it's always the black person who's the bad guy and the white people who are the victims.

[R B Garr]

99. She had t-shirts prepared to sell, so it totally undercuts

your point. It was a calculated, planned moment. She dredged up ancient history and manipulated Biden’s words and context to fit her planned narrative.

The “hurt” comment sealed the deal and boxed him out of answering her effectively. Let’s not twist what we all saw play out and what her campaign has admitted to. Thanks.

[marylandblue]

139. He wasn't boxed out at all. He could have said,

"I'm sorry you felt hurt, and I'm glad busing worked for you, but the fact is, it wasn't right for many communities. Let's focus in today's inequities, I want to make it so every kid has access to a quality education regardless of zip code, so I will increase funding to Title I schools, fully fund special education..."

By acknowledging her feelings and then turning the conversation to his current policies, it makes her look stuck in the past while he is looking ahead.

[R B Garr]

143. She misrepresented his words and the context. Fifteen second

answers just show what a lousy format this was. You see her defensiveness when reporters say she is for eliminating private insurance and she has to explain she was misunderstood. I don’t see her coddling the reporter’s feelings. She just corrects them.

Biden also could have also said she needs to put her pro/busing policy in her platform and start running on it, then explain why she thinks America needs to listen to ancient history.

So many options....

[marylandblue]

146. Trying to explain the context in terms of states rights and Dept. of Ed policy

accepts the legitimacy of her ancient history frame. If nobody cares, why even go into it? Especially when he has a plan to address current disparities in education and she doesn't. This would have been a great time to bring up his K-12 education policy, which IMO, is his best policy idea.

Given that he is actually strong in education policy, I find his failure to segue into it frustrating and an indication that he is not as sharp as he used to be.

[R B Garr]

148. Should we keep lying about Kamala's responses to

reporter’s questions about why she raised her hand during the debate to say she was in favor of eliminating private insurance? She has answered incorrectly at least a couple times now. How long does this charade go on for either politician.

She misrepresented what he said, even after the debates. He wasn’t praising segregationists, he wasn’t nostalgic for segregationists. It’s truly absurd to try and sell this line — along with t-shirts.

[marylandblue]

155. Yes, it's absurd, but I've accepted we live in a post-truth world, and

that will remain so at least as long as Trump is around, and probably a lot longer. It's really stupid, but here we are.

Those t-shirts are like MAGA hats made in China. Fake, yet effective as identity markers for those who vote for feelings over facts. Which now includes a lot of Democrats.

[StarfishSaver]

161. You're actually comparing a t-shirt with a picture of Kamala Harris as a little girl to MAGA hats?

You have jumped the shark, darlin'.

[marylandblue]

162. I'm just noting the role symbolic identity markers play in politics.

Harris turned herself into a symbol of disadvantaged little girls everywhere, or at least that's her aim. Nobody cares that the t-shirts were ordered in advance. It's contrived, but if it catches on, we will see it everywhere.

Maybe it won't work. Sometime these things happen better on their own. Like the "Nevertheless she persisted" cup I bought on a whim.

[R B Garr]

164. Yeah, it just seems there shouldn't be double standards on who

gets a pass on telling the truth. I think our candidates had to sign a unity pledge. Or not hold debates since why would someone subject themselves to malicious lies.

[demosincebirth]

104. It was the way she said it - angrily at times , that didn't

Come over very well.

[StarfishSaver]

130. "Angrily" - no.

But she is a black woman and she did challenge a white man so she MUST have been angry, even though she showed absolutely no signs of anger.

Because, you know, Angry Black Woman

[demosincebirth]

147. No I don't.

[emmaverybo]

157. She implied he was a racist with her "I know your'e not a racist but..."

[StarfishSaver]

160. She didn't imply anything

Your choice to infer it even though she said the exact opposite is on you, not her.

[LakeArenal]

135. Everytime an aggressive woman goes too far we get called haters.

Sometimes aggressive is negative. It’s not sexist.

[KPN]

79. It's starting to seem like 2015. Deja vu all over again. nt

[Renew Deal]

89. There is a lot more (justified) desperation this time around

[KPN]

97. True. Maybe that will save us. We'll see. Vote for our nominee no matter what. I just hope we

don't shoot ourselves in the foot in the meantime. Frankly, I don't believe candidates being silent on or about each other creates a firewall. And I don't trust the media one iota.

[Pachamama]

9. Sadly, this is going to bite her in the ass...unless she figures out a way to make amends with Biden

I for one am very disappointed and as I have posted here over the weekend, all the local Harris supporters I know and people who have long been active democrats in CA and local politics, are not pleased at all with her.

I say this as someone who is in the Bay Area and knows the local and state politics. Met Kamala over 25 years ago through a mutual friend named Gavin Newsom and we know the same circle of friends and neighbors and people in government.

What Willie Brown has to say about it only made me want to throw up in my mouth because he should be the last one to be "helping" Kamala right now or whose opinion should even matter.

I would rather know what Obama thinks.

Only Harris can clean up this situation. I hope she figures out a way to make amends with Joe Biden and focus instead on how to defeat Donald Trump and when she wants to make an attack, that it be on Trump and not a fellow Democrat.

[StarfishSaver]

16. SHE'S supposed to "make amends" with Biden for talking about his record in a debate?

Like Cory Booker is supposed to apologize to him for taking issue with something Biden said.


I see.

[Pachamama]

21. Yep

[ucrdem]

35. At this point,

I expect that Cory probably will make an apology.

[qazplm135]

18. oh no it's not

a month from now the landscape will change again. She was mired in fourth place maybe fifth...now she has a fundraising burst and is in third to fourth.

Now, she will have another opportunity to make a move next debate. She put herself in the conversation, now she has to prove she can move past that.

She's not running for VP, and generally speaking the VP nominee isn't picked from one of the other top tier candidates. See e.g. Biden.

So her ass will remain unbitten.

[Pachamama]

23. When people who know her well and are deep in Democratic Party make statements like that behind the

....scenes and especially privately as they did all weekend around me and socially....

Yes, it will.

We shall see.

My dream ticket (long before either she or Biden announced they were running) was either a Harris/Biden or Biden/Harris ticket...

I wasn't alone and had been speaking to people about it....

Many people now feel that they hopes are dashed for that and that Obama isn't happy with Harris and that life long democrats who have liked her and also Biden are very disappointed and given a choice, will go with Biden.

I could be wrong - but I know how I feel and I know what people I have been talking about are saying about it.

The talk is that Biden would have chosen her as a running mate and now the name Stacy Abrams was being brought up again.

We shall see.

[Thekaspervote]

41. As posted above, she has already lost 5 of the 8 pts she gained

She above post for link

[qazplm135]

126. tell ya what

let's look at the polling by the end of the week.

And her one day fundraising was pretty snazzy too.

Biden supporters need to courage-up cuz guess what, more attacks are coming.

I get that you want no attacks and just a love in because your guy currently leads, but it's not how this works, not how any of this works.

[Thekaspervote]

156. Deal!! Everybody has peaks that they come down from

[qazplm135]

158. so ummmm

have ya checked the CNN poll today?

[qazplm135]

167. soooo...

have you looked at Quinnipiac?

[Cha]

22. Mahalo for your perspective, Pachamama!

It's funny.. I was just wondering what Obama would be thinking about all of this. He certainly knows who Joe is and I can't imagine he'd be happy about him being dragged like this.

[StarfishSaver]

30. Since we're guessing what Obama's thinking, it's just as possible he's thinking

"I love me some Joe, but he's not perfect and I picked him in spite of his flaws not because he was flawless. His record was one of the downsides that I had to carefully consider before selecting him as VP and even though I picked him anyway, lots of voters he needs aren't going to just overlook it because he was my VP. If he's going to run on his own, he's going to have to figure out how to speak about his record without getting all defensive. If he'd just shown more cool when answering the question, it would have been over and nobody would still be talking about it five days later. He's got to get it together if he wants to win this thing. This ain't beanbag."

[Pachamama]

36. Is this an actual quote or you channeling Obama?

"This ain't beanbag"


???????

Since your guessing....I will make a guess too: I highly doubt that Obama thinks this about Joe Biden...

[mopinko]

42. he would def say "this aint beanbag"

that's a chicago thing.

[R B Garr]

50. So much anti-Biden spam since April 2019. Wow.

Your devotion to this cause is a bit lacking in recollection and accuracy, though. Long on emotionality.

I bet a lot of people in California are like me—they voted for Harris because Obama endorsed her. I bet a lot of them are not happy that she has basically dissed Obama by implying his VP is a racist. Not every critique of Harris is an opportunity to create yet another anti-Biden screed.

Harris also misrepresented herself by commingling her local busing situation with the federal programs so that she could confront Biden.

[StarfishSaver]

55. And now, we are being subjected to a flood of anti-Harris spam

Coincidence? I think not.

And Harris didn't "misrepresent herself." She said she was bused as a child and asked Biden about his opposition to busing. He said he didn't oppose the kinds of programs she participated in which wasn't true - he opposed ALL busing and never differentiated between voluntary and court-ordered busing when he was opposing busing and, in fact, introduced anti-busing legislation that specifically targeted the kind of voluntary program she was involved in.

That said, how could you possibly interpret my comment as an "anti-Biden screed"?

[R B Garr]

65. You are still trying to twist forty years of ancient history

into anti-Biden distortions, when it is Kamala who needs to answer why she said Biden hurt her. Your own links prove you wrong. An anti-Biden screed would be when you spend copious amounts of time pushing incorrect information to maintain a negative impression. That’s why it’s obvious.

This thread is about Kamala’s current comments. Comments seen in a recent debate, so a current news cycle. She dredged up ancient history to attack another Democrat. That’s why people are currently talking about her current comments.

[StarfishSaver]

73. Stating facts about a candidate's record isn't "twisting 40 years of ancient history"

If Biden wants to run on his record - including talking about things he did 40 years ago that he's proud of - he should also be expected to address aspects of his record during that time that he may not be particularly proud of. The smart thing to do is to explain what he learned from that experience, how he evolved and how it shaped him into who he is now. It's not that complicated. But he can't - no one can - have it both ways. If his 40-year-ago record is relevant when he brings it up, it's not "ancient history" when someone else does.

[R B Garr]

77. Saying Biden hurt her is twisting 40 years of ancient history.

Your own links show that you are misrepresenting Biden’s positions. The issue now is why Kamala deliberately commingled local busing with federally mandated programs. Everyone knows Berkeley is a privileged and upscale area.

[StarfishSaver]

129. Speaking of twisting words

It is you who are twisting her words. That seems to be the thing around here these days

She said she found Biden's comments hurtful. She did not say his busing position hurt her as a child.

She said that he opposed busing. Are you saying he DIDN'T oppose busing then?

What specifically in my links proves that she misrepresented Biden's actions?

Yes, I know the common response to that is "He only opposed court ordered busing, not voluntary busing." So please point to something in my sources that proves that. Please show specifically what he said or did at the time to indicate he only opposed court ordered busing, but supported voluntary busing. (Warning - that will be difficult if not impossible, considering the legislation he introduced and fought to make into law targeted only voluntary busing and would have undermined the very program Harris participated in had the House not stripped his amendment from the final bill. But have at it, if you will)

[R B Garr]

131. I never said what you are distorting. Just like you distorted

Biden’s words to present a false emotional narrative. We all saw and heard what she said during the debate, so trying to manipulate people into buying your anti-Biden take on it is getting old. Distorting an ancient issue that she misrepresented as Biden hurting her is just a waste of time.

Read through your link, then you’ll find Biden’s comments that contradict this mission to beat a dead horse. Read your links, thanks. People are not stupid.

[StarfishSaver]

132. In other words, you can't cite anything in my links that disprove my point

Just as I thought.

Thank you.

[R B Garr]

133. What part of your link did you deliberately ignore?

You should read that part instead of spreading your distorted emotional view of dead issues from 40 years ago. It gets really old.

[Pachamama]

33. Mahalo to you too Cha!

The talk behind the scenes in San Francisco and Marin circles is that if given a choice, everyone will back Biden - and Harris made a big miscalculation in her attack on Biden.

I am getting attacked for speaking out about my own disappointment in what she did and simply being a messenger of what I am hearing behind the scenes. As someone who has been on DU for 15 years and am not only a loyal supporter of Democrats, and have personally marched with Kamala at planned parenthood events and know her socially, I don't say any of this lightly. And I am not alone.

I'm still supporting her for President, but after this debate am watching what comes next and whether that support will continue.

I have long believed that the next President and Vice President have to heal this Nation after Trump - and from the decades of racism. They need to be a team and work together. So lets see what happens. Kamala can't say that there should not be food fights and then pull out the rotten eggs and tomatoes. I hope she can figure a way to move forward and not attack Democrats and be a healer and not just a Prosecutor.

[Cha]

51. That's so good to hear.. on the

ground, behind the scenes, reports like this.. Thank You!

I read your post in the Symone Sanders Tweet thread and I had to do a double take.. I thought you would have a Biden pic but you have Kamala's and you were still disappointed in the way she attacked Biden. It was enlightening!

I think President Obama wouldn't be happy about this because he's a Uniter always has been.

Remember this?..

Barack Obama warns progressives to avoid 'circular firing squad'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/06/barack-obama-progressives-circular-firing-squad-democrats

Excellent points about the Democratic President and Vice President will have to heal our Country and by extension the world.

I think President Obama and VP Biden did a brilliant job of just that.. after the bush-cheney nightmare.

[R B Garr]

59. Thank you for this interesting information!

I listened to her predecessor, Boxer, on Hardball with a very sound critique of Harris and her food fight comment along the same lines — demanding conversation that benefits Americans, but then launching into a long dead irrelevant issue about busing. That was a waste of time to have viewers watching that on a national stage. Boxer was worth watching if you can catch Hardball’s Friday rerun. She is classy as ever. That is the kind of Senator I remember for California. I’m seeing Kamala in a different light now. I voted for her because Obama endorsed her, but look how she treats his VP...

Great input, Pachamama, thank you.

[Mme. Defarge]

127. I truly appreciate your very fair-minded insider insight.

It helps me to feel that I haven’t completely lost my mind, given that my reaction to what I heard and saw on Thursday was so completely at odds with the narrative that was immediately fed to the public by the majority of pundits.

Not only does the next president/administration have to heal the nation, but must also repair our relationship with our allies and repair the damage done to our federal agencies. All of that while also restoring the soul of our country. I fear that 2020 will be our last chance to save the the nation and the ideals that my ancestors, dating back to the Revolutionary War, have fought for.

I do not think that we can regain our unity and restore our national soul by losing both in the process.

[Skya Rhen]

28. I am sure that Obama must be very disappointed by the implication that he selected a

right-hand man whose civil rights history is questionable.

[ucrdem]

31. +1

[Cha]

62. ...

Barack Obama warns progressives to avoid 'circular firing squad'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/06/barack-obama-progressives-circular-firing-squad-democrats

[Cha]

56. Remember this, Skya?

Barack Obama warns progressives to avoid 'circular firing squad'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/06/barack-obama-progressives-circular-firing-squad-democrats

[PatSeg]

32. Harris was my number two choice,

at times my number one. I think she could have had a strong debate performance without this planned and seemingly scripted attack. In every other respect, she was the best of both debates.

I still like Harris and I hope she lets this one go rather than doubling down on it. There certainly are more pressing issues than a fight over busing 30 plus years ago. If she wants to talk about race, talk about racial profiling by police, racial disparity in sentencing, and the over representation of blacks in Latinos in prison system. These are current and urgent problems.

Attacking any candidate over something they said or did decades ago is counter productive and a waste of time, especially considering all the problems we are facing today.

[justie18]

66. Well

It was a debate! Biden's defense of state's rights was really cringe worthy - a definite dog whistle. Then he continued to step in it with his comment about boys wearing hoodies. Why did he have to choose two segregationists as an example of working with both sides? Too many dog whistles along with his actions regarding Anita Hill.

More importantly, he should have been prepared for questions regarding the segregationists, since it had already caused a stir.

Mr. 'anyway, my time is up' needs to up his game if he is going to be on the same stage with Trump.

[mcar]

76. Should Julian Castro "make amends" to O'Rourke?

[KPN]

85. The machine is going to go after her.

[Demsrule86]

118. She has it coming...she shouldn't have opened herself up to this...and I have no idea what machine

you mean...if you mean boots on the ground Democrats ...hell yes...the base.

[stopbush]

92. Can we stop with the Ds need to apologize bullshit?

The public reads that as a sign of weakness, of flip flopping. Doesn’t matter if it’s true.

Perhaps Biden needs to apologize to his supporters for being underprepared for that debate.

[ucrdem]

140. LOL, except Joe, he needs to apologize?

For calling bs on Harris's insinuations? She chose that tactic all by herself. He doesn't owe her anything.

[stopbush]

142. Nobody said that.

Get a grip.

[democrattotheend]

163. President Obama won't jump into this

He's not going to inject himself into the Democratic primaries until much later, if at all. My guess is he'll wait to endorse until we have a nominee or are close to it.

[Skya Rhen]

10. Wow, the comments made by the Politico posters are not looking good for Harris.

[jcgoldie]

149. Her polling numbers are looking up though!

[StarfishSaver]

11. Her "ambition"?

Notice how only women get described as "ambitious" as a bad thing?

Every single candidate in the race is ambitious - they wouldn't be there if they weren't. But only women get attacked for it.

[Cha]

25. Carol Moseley Braun is the one

who said that.

[Merlot]

39. Newsflash: Women have been known to critcize other women

Doesn't make it more valid just because a woman said it.

[Pachamama]

43. Yes, and so have African Americans been known to criticize other African Americans

Does that also not make it valid just because someone in the African American community said it?



Who can have an opinion and whose opinion matters?

[StarfishSaver]

48. Women can and often do apply negative stereotypes to other women.

The fact that a woman said it doesn't make such a comment any less sexist.

[loyalsister]

46. There has been a lot of sexism directed toward her

How dare a woman challenge earlier positions of a man who is running on his history and record.

[Demit]

67. Also, how dare a woman be so...prepared. It's almost as if she...prepared for the debate.

Just like that last woman who ran for president. Preparing for things is so calculating. So womanly! Who wants a president who thinks ahead and is...prepared?

[loyalsister]

88. I suspect there would be cheering

if the dynamic had played out opposite. And it would have "proved" the value of experience.

[treestar]

119. Of course you can be prepared for what you bring up

It's the unexpected you have to prepare for. Thus Biden getting flack about not expecting this particular line of questioning. Harris has yet to prove she is prepared for the attacks she'll get.

[treestar]

115. It's not a bad thing

Women can be ambitious, too.

[Demit]

26. Biden didn't expect it--but he should have. Did he think he could just waltz to the nomination?

This is what happens in a primary and he of all people should know it. He's been through more of them than anyone else running.

If he wants to be president he should have to fight for it, like everyone else. It's a job, not a lifetime achievement award.

[ucrdem]

34. Did you notice that he pushed back hard?

And he wasn't the one who raised his voice. Yes, he was ready for the questions. I don't think he was ready for the performance.

[Demit]

49. It didn't look to me he pushed back hard. Maybe when he tried to bolster his civil rights creds

by saying he used to be a public defender (contrasting himself with Harris as a prosecutor). But did you know that he was a public defender for only a few months in 1969, in between jobs at law firms? After the stint with the second law firm, he went into private practice while also being on the city council.

My impression watching it live was that he didn't have anything prepared as a strong comeback, and he wasn't able to come up with one thinking on his feet.

[ucrdem]

52. He pointed out that her busing program was voluntary.

That pretty much toasted her capacitor and that's when she raised her voice. But he did not. I don't think she was ready for that.

[Eyeball_Kid]

95. I thought that Biden was flummoxed and resorted to bragging about his resume. n/t

[Skittles]

153. no, I did not notice that at all

he seemed unprepared

[treestar]

114. I don't think he should have

they signed something about how they would stay positive rather than negative.

[Kaleva]

37. Another article smearing Biden as weak and unprepared

"Harris’ assault on Biden as an all-too-calculated overreach after she knocked him on his heels in a grilling over busing and his remarks on segregationist senators. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/30/kamala-harris-joe-biden-2020-1391212

[mopinko]

44. nothing gendered about this shit.

sheesh.
swallowed whole here at du, too.
we need to learn to spit this shit out.
stop swallowing y'all.

[StarfishSaver]

45. IKR?

[ConstanceCee]

53. Lost Me

I think she may have lost me on this alone. It was too contrived and practiced. Plus it's way too early in the campaign to be trying to destroy another Dem. The candidates looked great when they stood up for her.

[delisen]

58. I am looking at this stage for a tough bold candidate not dream tickets

The winner of the primary gets to decide second place on the ticket; I don't get a voice in that selection -vp is not decided democratically-it is still a backroom political decision.

I assume from how Biden has positioned himself, that if he becomes the general election candidate, he will select the person best able to help him win.

What Harris has accomplished is drawing out the Trump/Republican propaganda machine-which has now begun their attack upon her. So now I get to see how she handles that as well as whether that machine has increased or diminished in its effectiveness.

After that primary candidates will have to address the "Russia" issue-much more about Russia will be coming out in the next several months and how prepared candidates are to deal with that information will be very important.

Another big issue will be climate change because because the real estate industry, the insurance industry, the mortgage industry,and the smaller coastal towns in Florida (fearing abandonment) are focused, beginning to take actions, and sounding alarms.

The 2020 election will be like no other. because we are are moving into the equivalent of the "perfect storm" but on a massive scale.

[oasis]

60. Biden's going to be okay after the smoke clears on this. Kamala? nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

64. I skipped the backlash and just thought it was rude

from the start. Also, in a single couple minutes, lost any hopes of being VP.

[Act_of_Reparation]

69. Unless Joe Biden doesn't win the nomination.

It may surprise you, but several of the people on that stage appeared to be operating under the assumption someone else's name would be on top of the ticket.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

110. That's a great point! Half the people assume all

The candidates are acceptable and fall within our liberal belief system. The most important thing is insuring the monster doesn't get elected.

The other half are focused on which person they like the most and who most closely fits their own beliefs. Hopefully that person could win in the electoral college...based on sheer volume of Democrats voting.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

111. More to your point

. Yes, who knows who will ultimately win.

[Mjolnir1956]

68. Ambition

No Kamala didn't get it wrong. She used Joe's praise of vile segregationists to point out that he's not always been good on race. She prepared and he didn't....He better be ready because she'll have a new line of attack at the next debate. The only people whining are the Biden supporters.

[Texin]

70. IMO, Biden wasn't as prepared by his staff as he should have been.

He was less animated than I'm used to seeing him. That said, I too think Sen. Harris was heavy-handed in that exchange. I don't believe it was out of bounds necessarily, but the tone was all prosecutorial. It was like he was in the witness chair and she was grilling him like a criminal, complete with that prosecutorial pointing finger. She actually looked as if the two of them had been standing facing each other, she would have been jabbing him in the lapel. I'm a woman and that finger pointing bothered me, more for the fact that I felt very strongly that she was hurting herself with many (most?) males and not just a few women potential voters with that. It wasn't the accusation or implication delivered to Biden in my mind that unsettled me as it was the delivery of it that I feel may have hurt her. It's just been my observation that most people don't appreciate anyone getting in their face and jabbing their pointing finger at them.

[defacto7]

71. Her choice of tactics bruised both sides but it was a no win either way for her.

If she had thought this through she should have realized it was a bad choice. Taking someone down in this fashion doesn't always work and most of the time will backfire.

I think candidates will eventually take themselves down on their own. They don't have to be stepped on like it's big time wrestling, just lead them through smart rhetorical tactics and substance. If they deserve it they'll swallow themself.

[ananda]

72. I just didn't care, really.

It's a fucking debate, for godssakes.

[mcar]

74. Who had ambitious on the bingo card?

We've seen contrived, emotional, prepared - all as perjoratives that seem only to be used against women candidates.

Now we're at ambitious, because that somehow is a bad thing - but only for women candidates.

Are we really doing this again?

[Dickbaker]

80. Biden /Harris lost dream

As so many I hoped for a wonderful political pair that would frighten Trump.
NOTE that Trump immediately jumped on the division between Joe and Kamala.
Kamala , please choose your enemies more carefully. Joe isn't perfect but you must compare him to the evil in the White House.
Dick

[B Stieg]

81. If Kamala plays "low ball," what in the heck...

does Joe think tRump does?

[Eyeball_Kid]

82. IMO, Harris maneuvered herself brilliantly, and Biden reacted with a sour puss.

Biden's easily flummoxed by confrontation. That's what Harris exposed.

Harris has the potential of becoming wildly popular. But she has a ton of baggage from her years as California's AG. Her record belies her campaign persona. So she has to tiptoe through her own history. Her competitors won't allow her to skip away from accountability.

[stopbush]

83. Yes, Biden supporters are upset. No one else seems to be.

[BlueStater]

84. Guess we can forget about the Biden-Harris ticket.

Good I say. She never deserved to play second fiddle to him to begin with.

[matt819]

91. This seems reminiscent of the 2016 campaign

Who's driving this "conflict"? Harris? Biden? Their supporters? Media? Can anyone find the vector of the dispute. Article one that has driven the discussion over the past week. Sure, the candidates are going to have differences, and, sadly, politics is a blood sport. But the tone of this conflict just sounds so damn familiar.

[Jakes Progress]

94. I thought it was good for two reasons.

First, I like to know if a candidate can reflect on their actions and learn from them. This exchange is another example of Joe not being able to do that. Obviously he was wrong in his actions back then. He could have said that. He could have acknowledged that he has grown and learned as he grew older. That would have shown wisdom and it would have bolstered his position as an older and wiser man who has learned from a life in politics. But his reaction seems to be "I have never done anything wrong. Ever. And I have never done anything I need to apologize for." We know that isn't true. Does he?

Second, I think Kamala was the first of the candidates in the debates to show her ability to stand up and argue. Elizabeth did a credible job the night before, but Harris was better at it. Joe got flustered and showed that trump could roll him. I think his ego is too fragile and his sense of his own righteousness too tough. We'll see what happens when someone attacks Kamala. Others on the two nights tried to attack but only came off as petty and petulant.

Who ever gets the nomination gets my vote. But I hope the nominee can stand up the the rolling ball of dung that is trump.

[elias7]

98. Can someone explain why his remarks would be hurtful? Or racially charged?

I don’t care for Biden and would prefer Harris any day. But, Biden was saying that he was able to reach across the aisle to get things done, even when those across the aisle were vile troglodytes who treated blacks and him alike like sh*t. He still found some common ground so that work could get done. What am I missing?

[Demit]

125. First, the troglodytes he used as an example of working across the aisle were fellow Democrats.

So, it wasn't even an example of working across the aisle. Second, Biden was seeking help to advance anti-busing legislation, so he cultivated his fellow Democrat, the segregationist Eastland. So it wasn't an example of finding common ground, either. They both already were against busing.

Biden was trying to use this as an example of comity. He was praising Eastland for his comity, his courteousness. He went on to reminisce how Eastland, an outspoken white supremicist, never called him "boy." Just the revival of that terminology was a sore point for blacks.

Eastland never treated Biden like shit, btw. Their relationship was very warm. Someone posted an exchange of letters between the two last week that will show you that. He even offered to campaign for Biden in his reelection bid. Biden's fond memories of a white supremicist, because he was nice to Biden personally, is what was hurtful. Maybe he didn't really mean it that way, but you can see how that would sting. Especially in this age of ramped-up racial hatred.

Whenever Biden says something that comes out the wrong way, he insists that it is you who got it wrong, not him, and that only compounds the problem.

[elias7]

165. Thank you

I should have researched that myself

[delisen]

100. Which candidates are not "ambitious?" Is ambition a negative characteristic?

[FiveGoodMen]

103. She was right behind Gillibrand in the line to torpedo Franken

This is strike two as far as I'm concerned.

[Demsrule86]

136. This is true.

[RelativelyJones]

106. She lost me with that "I don't think you are racist" line.

[Midwestocrat]

108. She rehearsed it for months.

And rehearsed counterattacks to whatever his response might have been.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/kamala-harris-joe-biden-debate-1390383

It's why I have misgivings about her. She's cagey, she tries to sound Sanders-esque to far left crowds, ardent progressive to base crowds, moderate to mainstream American groups and big dollar donors. Of course it worked for Bill Clinton.

[BeyondGeography]

109. The entitlement factor with Biden is off the charts but I think Harris misplayed this

It's pretty clear to me he just thought he could throw the ball on the field and win this, even though there is nothing in his previous history to suggest this campaign at an advanced age was going to be easy for him. His supporters complaining about Harris' "ambition" shows that entitlement runs very deep in the whole Biden 2020 enterprise.

The risk in challenging Biden the way Harris did is he remains very well-liked and her negatives will go up as a result. Remember how Obama handled a similar situation in a debate in the 2008 campaign; he basically said at the end of the day that Joe can be counted on to fight the good fight (which is even more true today) and most everybody, including Biden, loved him as a result.

Harris scored a near-term win with the debate but she would have been much better served IMO by not leveraging the Eastland comments to the hilt this early in the game and focus on building her own positives as a candidate first. There's only one Obama, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to emulate him. Plus the early signs are there that Biden will lose this on his own without being pushed so why burn capital that you didn't need to spend.

[LakeArenal]

117. Harris has been calculating this since railroading Franken.

She wants to be president. Anyone who thinks a successful prosecutor isn’t an attack dog should be charged and go to court.

If you like those politics, then she’s the candidate.

I’m way more Perry Mason than Hamilton Berger.

Also I think Al Franken would have made a better president or VP than any of them.

[LincolnRossiter]

120. +1

[Little Star]

151. Didn't she also call for Franken to resign?

She sure likes to spout about other Dems.

[JI7]

159. Bernie Sanders did also but people only go after the women

[PunkinPi]

166. There were a lot of dems that asked him to resign...

including some other 2020 dem pres contenders. Here's a list:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/full-list-senators-call-for-al-franken-to-resign-282175

[Gothmog]

128. K&R

[tishaLA]

145. Those damned ambitious women!

[Skittles]

152. maybe that kind of method will be needed when dealing with today's repukes

look where we are from "taking the high road"

still, I'll take Beto over either one of them

[dawg day]

154. This is getting really tiresome.

Harris is not running to be Biden's VP, and so losing that supposed chance isn't a problem.

Isn't it time to move on to something else? Maybe now everyone can go after Swallwell and his torch-grab. <G>