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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:18 AM

 

The Democratic field is crowded with C-listers. It's time for some to drop out

Millions of Americans don’t know who John Delaney or John Hickenlooper are. They probably wouldn’t be able to correctly identify them in a photo. And yet, at the Democratic debate on Tuesday night, Delaney got to speak for nearly 11 minutes, and John Hickenlooper for almost nine. In one night, those two relatively unknown men combined got more airtime than the climate crisis has in all three debates thus far. And that’s despite the fact that, if we don’t do anything to address rising temperatures now, we will see several US cities underwater in the coming decades.

So here’s my pitch: if these and other candidates without a shot in hell at winning actually cared about the future of this country, they would drop out.

There are plenty of substantive differences among the viable candidates that deserve to be explored in depth, on just about every issue raised at Tuesday’s debate – healthcare, immigration, climate, gun violence – plus many more. And while it’s great for the ratings of networks like CNN, it’s not exactly a boon to American democracy to watch a stage flanked with unrecognizable C-list primary hopefuls pad their own egos because they’re rich or well-connected enough to meet the debate criteria.


[link:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/31/democratic-field-crowded-c-listers-john-delaney-john-hickenlooper|

She might have a point? The herd has to start to thin at some point...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply The Democratic field is crowded with C-listers. It's time for some to drop out (Original post)
Soph0571 Jul 2019 OP
The Blue Flower Jul 2019 #1
thesquanderer Jul 2019 #2
brush Jul 2019 #9
3catwoman3 Jul 2019 #3
Dorn Jul 2019 #4
crazytown Jul 2019 #5
efhmc Jul 2019 #10
ehrnst Jul 2019 #21
DemocracyMouse Jul 2019 #18
ehrnst Jul 2019 #24
DemocracyMouse Jul 2019 #41
ehrnst Aug 2019 #45
Autumn Jul 2019 #39
DemocracyMouse Jul 2019 #42
jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #7
paleotn Jul 2019 #16
jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #17
Spider Jerusalem Jul 2019 #25
jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #31
Spider Jerusalem Jul 2019 #32
jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #35
Spider Jerusalem Jul 2019 #36
jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #37
ehrnst Aug 2019 #43
paleotn Jul 2019 #12
IronLionZion Jul 2019 #14
ehrnst Jul 2019 #20
IronLionZion Jul 2019 #22
ehrnst Jul 2019 #23
calimary Jul 2019 #15
CentralMass Jul 2019 #27
Skittles Jul 2019 #33
ehrnst Jul 2019 #19
CentralMass Jul 2019 #26
Kurt V. Jul 2019 #28
Hortensis Jul 2019 #34
tritsofme Jul 2019 #40
JI7 Aug 2019 #44
infullview Jul 2019 #6
FakeNoose Jul 2019 #8
Moostache Jul 2019 #11
Wounded Bear Jul 2019 #13
Tipperary Jul 2019 #29
elleng Jul 2019 #30
redstatebluegirl Jul 2019 #38

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:20 AM

1. THIS plus a million

 

At least there's still plenty of time to get rid of the -1 percenters who waste everyone's time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:49 AM

2. About 5 from last night won't qualify for the next debate,

 

so the problem kind of takes care of itself from here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:30 AM

9. Yes, some campaigns will soon be suspended. Qualifying for the 3rd debate is tougher.

 

And if you haven't moved the polling needle by now, it's time to face the music.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:36 AM

3. I think "C-listers" is being rather...

 

...generous in some cases.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:02 AM

4. The reason there are so many candidates is an effort to hide Bernie in a crowd

 

This is the largest number of candidates in my life time, the party encouraged it to hide Bernie Sanders in a forest of others.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:04 AM

5. "an effort to hide Bernie in a crowd"

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:31 AM

10. That's funny. Can't hide that man.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to efhmc (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 02:30 PM

21. He makes very, very sure of that. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to crazytown (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:40 AM

18. Bernie may or may not win the primary, but I give him credit for repeatedly

 

and stubbornly speaking up about our rigged system. He has made it possible for many other candidates to discuss national inequality, healthcare reform and deeper policy issues. He made a Buttigieg, a Harris, a Warren and an Inslee candidacy possible.

Attacking style rather than a person's platform is, accirding to my father, a former debate coach, a cheap shot with zero merit. Just sayin'.

And as for Bernie's style? His rage speaks for me. This country is turning into a cash cow for the likes of Trump, Mitch McConnell and the oil companies. I hate it with a passion. Anyone showing a speck of concern and passion right now is more likely to win than some cold-blooded operator.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 04:01 PM

24. If debate teams were running for public office, a wise coach would teach them about style.

 

Because presentation is a huge part of politics, and this debate was a part of a political campaign, not simply part of a debate tournament.

Ask your father about the difference.

How many times have we heard about women candidates "shrillness" or "irritating voice?" And people on DU stated that it's something that must be dealt with if they are to be "likeable," and "electable," with no such scolding for being a 'cheap shot' with 'zero merit.'

Even Bernie got coaching on things like smiling more, remembering to say the name of the person that he's talking with when on camera, etc.

We like our politicians to have charisma. That's a fact of life, and if acknowledging when it's lacking is a 'cheap shot" it's one they knew about long before they stepped into the limelight.







If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 11:39 PM

41. My point is that I LOVE Bernie's passion. That's his style!

 

But yes, nudging him to smile more didn't hurt!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #41)

Thu Aug 1, 2019, 10:49 AM

45. So now you're saying to comment on Sanders' style is OK, as long as it's

 

positive?

Then it doesn't have 'zero merit?"

Which is it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:05 PM

39. I agree. I don't think we older people understand and see the anger at the current

 

system that the younger people have. They see the system as rigged and it is. Against them. This is a generation that will never have things as good as their parents did. They are facing climate change and very few politicians seem to be taking it seriously. Or at least seriously enough to do anything about it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 11:40 PM

42. Huh? Just the young? There are MILLIONS of older people who are fucked right now.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:24 AM

7. So the Democrats are trying to hide a non-Democrat

 

Interesting.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:20 AM

16. Ugh, not that again....

 

Sorry, it's a Vermont thing. And a Maine thing. But no one groans about Angus King for some reason. We have the same in the Vermont General Assembly with 12 independents and progressives in the House and 2 in the Senate. Rethugs hold less than 30% of House seats and only 20% of the Senate, so they help maintain healthy super majorities in both chambers. Even our Lt. Governor belongs to the Progressive Party. For all practical purposes, they're left leaning Dems, but don't call themselves that for various and sundry reasons. Like the old saying, Dems are like herding cats, but on steroids around here. But when the rubber meets the road, they vote, support and advocate for the same ideals we Dems hold dear. In my mind, THAT is the only thing that matters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to paleotn (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:24 AM

17. No need to apologize

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response. But I would argue that his political non-affiliation contributes to his supporters not supporting Democrats in general elections nationally. And that's a problem.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:20 PM

25. 25% of Clinton 2008 primary voters went for McCain in the general

 

more Sanders priimary voters voted for Clinton than Clinton primary voters voted for Obama. So I don't see where the problem is (unless it's 'I like circular firing squads').
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:41 PM

31. Thank you

 

Do you know how many Sanders primary voters in 2016 voted for Trump, Johnson or Stein in the general? This NPR story indicates about 12 percent voted for Trump. That was a problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:45 PM

32. Possibly 20%; still fewer than Clinton supporters voted for McCain

 

the number who voted for Trump specifically was 10% (and Clinton lost because of Democratic Party complacency as much as anything; remember the "blue wall"? All those supposedly solid states like Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin that all went for Trump in the end where the Clinton campaign didn't invest enough resources and had no ground game?)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 06:52 PM

35. The lede says 12 percent

 

"Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people."

Either way, mistakes were made, and some Democrats have defected in the past, as you have noted.

Thanks for your insight.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:10 PM

36. which again is fewer than the 25% of Clinton voters who went for McCain

 

any way you slice it, 2016 Sanders supporters were more reliably Democratic than 2008 Clinton supporters. So bitching about Sanders supporters is nonsensical.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #36)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:15 PM

37. Thanks

 

Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:49 PM - Edit history (1)

You are correct about the number of Hillary voters who crossed over to McCain in 2008. Thank goodness we didn't need them as we needed Bernie voters in 2016.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 1, 2019, 08:30 AM

43. Actually, no. Exit polling indicated that HRC supporters went 84% to Obama, 15% to McCain.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/exit.polls/

In general, 7–10% of self-identified Democrats will vote for the Republican candidate and vice-versa — that’s the usual level of crossover voting in a modern presidential election.

The 12% Bernie-to-Trump figure (and 24% Clinton-to-McCain figure)[see note below] comes from Brian Schaffner of the University of Massachusetts, Amherst who based it on extrapolations from the data in the Cooperative Congressional Election Study. Shaffner limited his examination only to those voters whose participation in both the primary and general could be validated. Theoretically, the idea is to weed out people who said they voted in one or other but didn’t. In practice, it cripples the headline conclusions at the end of it. Problem #1: That approach entirely excludes caucus states. Guess who did disproportionately well there? Problem #2: It entirely excludes voters in states where validation info wasn’t readily available. Short version: A large chunk of the U.S. is entirely unrepresented in his figures.


https://medium.com/jriddle/the-12-bernie-to-trump-figure-and-24-clinton-to-mccain-figure-comes-from-brian-schaffner-of-the-9905971c9f45
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:56 AM

12. Ha! I live in Vermont...

 

Just try hiding Bernie. It simply can't be done!

Seriously though, I do hope your statement isn't a ploy meant to stir up divisiveness. If so, that's sooooo 2016. We all have our parts to play in this, and I appreciate how Bernie has moved the narrative on healthcare and income inequality in the right direction. We have to recognize that there are inches of policy difference between the Dem candidates, but light years of distance between us and the Rethugs.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:03 AM

14. Bernie is well to the left of most of these candidates and has more name recognition

 

There's no hiding Bernie. Many others will drop out before he does.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 02:23 PM

20. But will he drop out if someone else passes the threshold of 2,026 pledged delegates? (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 02:30 PM

22. Probably not, but still concede at the convention and support the nominee

 

I had the last in the nation primary (DC) and had the opportunity to vote for him. Dems get like 90% of the general election vote in DC so the primary is my only vote that makes any difference. I of course voted for Hillary in the general election like any other sensible liberal.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 02:33 PM

23. It's not a good look for him. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:09 AM

15. Oh for Pete's sake...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to calimary (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:27 PM

27. No, for Joe's sake.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to calimary (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:49 PM

33. leave Buttigieg out of this

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 02:05 PM

19. "the party encouraged it to hide Bernie Sanders"

 

The party does its best to clear the field of any Democratic competitors in the Vermont Senate race, even though they know he will decline the nomination and drop that "D" the minute he wins the Democratic primary.

Yeah, sure, they want to "hide him."

They let him run as a Democrat for POTUS, despite years of denigrating the party, and didn't want to run as a Dem, but was talked into it by Tad Devine, because they needed for the money and the media exposure.

They weren't doing that in 2016, and they aren't doing it now.




If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:26 PM

26. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:29 PM

28. it didn't work. 👍

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 06:48 PM

34. No, Dorn. Nor did Sanders run to HIDE in a crowd.

 

For decades now, power has become increasingly diffused, no longer controlled by a few small groups in "back rooms" but created, captured and/or influenced by many groups and individuals, not just in politics but in every venture people are involved in. It's a function of the information age.

Both the DNC and RNC have become relatively powerless, most important decisions made by others around the nation (and in the case of the RNC, abroad). For instance, the candidates decide for themselves if they'll run. The successful ones, of which Sanders is one, present themselves to the DNC and RNC as up-and-running, potential billion-dollar corporations with one product: their candidate.

The DNC overdid its effort to keep self-promoters who couldn't possibly win off the stage in 2016, disqualifying 9 out of 14 and including 5 who represented voters from the farther left through the moderate left, choosing Sanders over worthy Democrats, because of his appeal to the farther left.

We know how that went. Sanders accused the DNC of victimizing him (NOT the 9 he never mentioned and not the other 3 besides him and Hillary on the debate stage), and to this day many are still under the influence of that illusion.

So here you are complaining about a whole new plot to bury Sanders in a large field of candidates. Not exactly. It's those who have the right stuff to become our eventual nominee they worry are losing months of opportunity to become familiar to the electorate, without the distractions of a large crowd of no-goes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:02 PM

40. lol...and you actually believe that?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Dorn (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 1, 2019, 08:31 AM

44. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:17 AM

6. I'd take any one of those "C" listers over what we have now.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:29 AM

8. That's been the plan all along

 

Rather than allowing a few "king makers" decide behind closed doors at Party Central, every single candidate gets their 15 minutes of face-time before they drop out of the race. A few will last quite a bit longer than 15 minutes, but most will not.

The way it was done in the past, and I'm talking about the "behind closed doors" part, did not sit well with the Democratic factions. It led to the Bernie/Hillary split of 2016 which seriously damaged our Party and our chances to win the election.

I say let's give this a chance. We're still early in the process and everyone needs to be heard now. The winnowing will happen soon enough.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:36 AM

11. The easy answer is an increasingly sliding scale to qualify...

 

First debate - minimal qualifications, give everyone a chance and a platform
Second debate - minimum 2% polling to get a podium
Third debate - minimum 5% polling to get a podium
Fourth debate - capped at the top 5 consensus candidates
Fifth debate and further - anyone under 10% can watch from the crowd because that is the same chance of winning by that time...

Easy peasy!

We need to have a substantive debate, not 20 minutes of air time for candidates trying to burnish their national bona fides for future moves or campaigns.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:03 AM

13. Yes, we need to thin the herd a bit...

 

and it sounds like they'll be working on it with the changing qualifications for the debates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:32 PM

29. This.

 

X1000
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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 05:34 PM

30. It will thin naturally,

 

doesn't need 'encouragement.'
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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:52 PM

38. I totally agree. This crowded primary season may cost us so much we lose the general.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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