Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumThe Democratic field is crowded with C-listers. It's time for some to drop out
So heres my pitch: if these and other candidates without a shot in hell at winning actually cared about the future of this country, they would drop out.
There are plenty of substantive differences among the viable candidates that deserve to be explored in depth, on just about every issue raised at Tuesdays debate healthcare, immigration, climate, gun violence plus many more. And while its great for the ratings of networks like CNN, its not exactly a boon to American democracy to watch a stage flanked with unrecognizable C-list primary hopefuls pad their own egos because theyre rich or well-connected enough to meet the debate criteria.
[link:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/31/democratic-field-crowded-c-listers-john-delaney-john-hickenlooper|
She might have a point? The herd has to start to thin at some point...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Blue Flower
(5,419 posts)At least there's still plenty of time to get rid of the -1 percenters who waste everyone's time.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
thesquanderer
(11,937 posts)so the problem kind of takes care of itself from here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brush
(53,333 posts)And if you haven't moved the polling needle by now, it's time to face the music.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
3catwoman3
(23,748 posts)...generous in some cases.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dorn
(519 posts)This is the largest number of candidates in my life time, the party encouraged it to hide Bernie Sanders in a forest of others.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
efhmc
(14,706 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)and stubbornly speaking up about our rigged system. He has made it possible for many other candidates to discuss national inequality, healthcare reform and deeper policy issues. He made a Buttigieg, a Harris, a Warren and an Inslee candidacy possible.
Attacking style rather than a person's platform is, accirding to my father, a former debate coach, a cheap shot with zero merit. Just sayin'.
And as for Bernie's style? His rage speaks for me. This country is turning into a cash cow for the likes of Trump, Mitch McConnell and the oil companies. I hate it with a passion. Anyone showing a speck of concern and passion right now is more likely to win than some cold-blooded operator.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Because presentation is a huge part of politics, and this debate was a part of a political campaign, not simply part of a debate tournament.
Ask your father about the difference.
How many times have we heard about women candidates "shrillness" or "irritating voice?" And people on DU stated that it's something that must be dealt with if they are to be "likeable," and "electable," with no such scolding for being a 'cheap shot' with 'zero merit.'
Even Bernie got coaching on things like smiling more, remembering to say the name of the person that he's talking with when on camera, etc.
We like our politicians to have charisma. That's a fact of life, and if acknowledging when it's lacking is a 'cheap shot" it's one they knew about long before they stepped into the limelight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)But yes, nudging him to smile more didn't hurt!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)positive?
Then it doesn't have 'zero merit?"
Which is it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(44,686 posts)system that the younger people have. They see the system as rigged and it is. Against them. This is a generation that will never have things as good as their parents did. They are facing climate change and very few politicians seem to be taking it seriously. Or at least seriously enough to do anything about it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jayschool2013
(2,306 posts)Interesting.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
paleotn
(17,759 posts)Sorry, it's a Vermont thing. And a Maine thing. But no one groans about Angus King for some reason. We have the same in the Vermont General Assembly with 12 independents and progressives in the House and 2 in the Senate. Rethugs hold less than 30% of House seats and only 20% of the Senate, so they help maintain healthy super majorities in both chambers. Even our Lt. Governor belongs to the Progressive Party. For all practical purposes, they're left leaning Dems, but don't call themselves that for various and sundry reasons. Like the old saying, Dems are like herding cats, but on steroids around here. But when the rubber meets the road, they vote, support and advocate for the same ideals we Dems hold dear. In my mind, THAT is the only thing that matters.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jayschool2013
(2,306 posts)Thanks for the thoughtful response. But I would argue that his political non-affiliation contributes to his supporters not supporting Democrats in general elections nationally. And that's a problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)more Sanders priimary voters voted for Clinton than Clinton primary voters voted for Obama. So I don't see where the problem is (unless it's 'I like circular firing squads').
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jayschool2013
(2,306 posts)Do you know how many Sanders primary voters in 2016 voted for Trump, Johnson or Stein in the general? This NPR story indicates about 12 percent voted for Trump. That was a problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)the number who voted for Trump specifically was 10% (and Clinton lost because of Democratic Party complacency as much as anything; remember the "blue wall"? All those supposedly solid states like Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin that all went for Trump in the end where the Clinton campaign didn't invest enough resources and had no ground game?)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jayschool2013
(2,306 posts)"Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study a massive election survey of around 50,000 people."
Either way, mistakes were made, and some Democrats have defected in the past, as you have noted.
Thanks for your insight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)any way you slice it, 2016 Sanders supporters were more reliably Democratic than 2008 Clinton supporters. So bitching about Sanders supporters is nonsensical.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jayschool2013
(2,306 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:49 PM - Edit history (1)
You are correct about the number of Hillary voters who crossed over to McCain in 2008. Thank goodness we didn't need them as we needed Bernie voters in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The 12% Bernie-to-Trump figure (and 24% Clinton-to-McCain figure)[see note below] comes from Brian Schaffner of the University of Massachusetts, Amherst who based it on extrapolations from the data in the Cooperative Congressional Election Study. Shaffner limited his examination only to those voters whose participation in both the primary and general could be validated. Theoretically, the idea is to weed out people who said they voted in one or other but didnt. In practice, it cripples the headline conclusions at the end of it. Problem #1: That approach entirely excludes caucus states. Guess who did disproportionately well there? Problem #2: It entirely excludes voters in states where validation info wasnt readily available. Short version: A large chunk of the U.S. is entirely unrepresented in his figures.
https://medium.com/jriddle/the-12-bernie-to-trump-figure-and-24-clinton-to-mccain-figure-comes-from-brian-schaffner-of-the-9905971c9f45
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
paleotn
(17,759 posts)Just try hiding Bernie. It simply can't be done!
Seriously though, I do hope your statement isn't a ploy meant to stir up divisiveness. If so, that's sooooo 2016. We all have our parts to play in this, and I appreciate how Bernie has moved the narrative on healthcare and income inequality in the right direction. We have to recognize that there are inches of policy difference between the Dem candidates, but light years of distance between us and the Rethugs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IronLionZion
(45,163 posts)There's no hiding Bernie. Many others will drop out before he does.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IronLionZion
(45,163 posts)I had the last in the nation primary (DC) and had the opportunity to vote for him. Dems get like 90% of the general election vote in DC so the primary is my only vote that makes any difference. I of course voted for Hillary in the general election like any other sensible liberal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calimary
(80,522 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skittles
(152,918 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The party does its best to clear the field of any Democratic competitors in the Vermont Senate race, even though they know he will decline the nomination and drop that "D" the minute he wins the Democratic primary.
Yeah, sure, they want to "hide him."
They let him run as a Democrat for POTUS, despite years of denigrating the party, and didn't want to run as a Dem, but was talked into it by Tad Devine, because they needed for the money and the media exposure.
They weren't doing that in 2016, and they aren't doing it now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)For decades now, power has become increasingly diffused, no longer controlled by a few small groups in "back rooms" but created, captured and/or influenced by many groups and individuals, not just in politics but in every venture people are involved in. It's a function of the information age.
Both the DNC and RNC have become relatively powerless, most important decisions made by others around the nation (and in the case of the RNC, abroad). For instance, the candidates decide for themselves if they'll run. The successful ones, of which Sanders is one, present themselves to the DNC and RNC as up-and-running, potential billion-dollar corporations with one product: their candidate.
The DNC overdid its effort to keep self-promoters who couldn't possibly win off the stage in 2016, disqualifying 9 out of 14 and including 5 who represented voters from the farther left through the moderate left, choosing Sanders over worthy Democrats, because of his appeal to the farther left.
We know how that went. Sanders accused the DNC of victimizing him (NOT the 9 he never mentioned and not the other 3 besides him and Hillary on the debate stage), and to this day many are still under the influence of that illusion.
So here you are complaining about a whole new plot to bury Sanders in a large field of candidates. Not exactly. It's those who have the right stuff to become our eventual nominee they worry are losing months of opportunity to become familiar to the electorate, without the distractions of a large crowd of no-goes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tritsofme
(17,313 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,151 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
infullview
(978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FakeNoose
(32,202 posts)Rather than allowing a few "king makers" decide behind closed doors at Party Central, every single candidate gets their 15 minutes of face-time before they drop out of the race. A few will last quite a bit longer than 15 minutes, but most will not.
The way it was done in the past, and I'm talking about the "behind closed doors" part, did not sit well with the Democratic factions. It led to the Bernie/Hillary split of 2016 which seriously damaged our Party and our chances to win the election.
I say let's give this a chance. We're still early in the process and everyone needs to be heard now. The winnowing will happen soon enough.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Moostache
(9,895 posts)First debate - minimal qualifications, give everyone a chance and a platform
Second debate - minimum 2% polling to get a podium
Third debate - minimum 5% polling to get a podium
Fourth debate - capped at the top 5 consensus candidates
Fifth debate and further - anyone under 10% can watch from the crowd because that is the same chance of winning by that time...
Easy peasy!
We need to have a substantive debate, not 20 minutes of air time for candidates trying to burnish their national bona fides for future moves or campaigns.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Wounded Bear
(58,362 posts)and it sounds like they'll be working on it with the changing qualifications for the debates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)X1000
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(129,800 posts)doesn't need 'encouragement.'
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden