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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:25 AM

 

Question for Harris & Buttigieg supporters.

So far, I canít really exactly peg where I see either of them on the ideological spectrum.
Just for the sake of argument, letís put Sanders/Warren on the most progressive end as a 10 and put Delaney/Ryan on the least progressive end as a 1.
Where would you put Harris and Mayor Pete?

I think 🤔 maybe they are both around a 7.
But, I want to hear from those that know more about these two than I do.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply Question for Harris & Buttigieg supporters. (Original post)
Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 OP
leftofcool Jul 2019 #1
Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #10
femmedem Jul 2019 #2
flying_wahini Jul 2019 #3
bigtree Jul 2019 #4
JI7 Jul 2019 #5
mtnsnake Jul 2019 #6
The Mouth Jul 2019 #7
wysimdnwyg Jul 2019 #8
Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #12
nini Jul 2019 #9
Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #11

Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:56 AM

1. Wouldn't it be easier

 

If you went to each candidates web site, clicked to read were each were on any given issue and made your own decision?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:24 AM

10. No I'm too lazy for that. Just being honest 🤗

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:04 AM

2. I think Buttigieg is more like an 8. But here's why it's hard to put him in a box:

 

If you just look at his policies, he's extremely progressive. His newly released economic plan would guarantee all workers the right to join a union, tighten definitions of independent contractor, make pay gaps public, and of course raise the federal minimum wage to $15/hr. His Douglass plan is eighteen pages long, covering health equity, investing much more in Title 1 schools, awarding 25% of government contracts to minority-owned businesses, reforming the criminal justice system and ensuring that black votes carry as much weight as white votes by doing away with the electoral college. One area where he is less progressive than some other candidates is that he calls for Medicare for all who want it rather than just Medicare for all.

But people may not recognize how progressive he is because he frames progressive policies in ways which can appeal to moderate voters. While repeatedly affirming that Americans have both freedom of religion and freedom from religion, he often quotes Christian scripture to show how progressive policies are in line with what white Evangelicals purport to believe. He can put forward an anti-authoritarian policy like having Congress vote for war not just at the beginning of a war but every three years to continue a war--and he can do this while highlighting his experience as a veteran. He can talk to both Trump supporters and burn-the-house-down Green Party voters or nonvoters about their disillusionment with government by pointing out that Mitch McConnell has prevented Congress from enacting the legislation which would help people in their day-to-day lives.

He has always planned to roll out his campaign by first putting forward his values or ideological framework, then getting specific with policy. Only in July has he made public two lengthy policy plans (Douglass and economic) so it's understandable that people are just learning how progressive his policies actually are.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to femmedem (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:11 AM

3. Thanks, I have been keeping an eye on him.

 


And I like how he throws scripture around to show we are not ALL a Godless bunch.
(Even though I am.....)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:12 AM

4. Kamala Harris is definitely pragmatic

 

...but she's also very liberal.

Her first vote was for Jesse Jackson.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:21 AM

5. too much focus on labels

 

look at their record. listen to what they say.

Sanders doesn't support reparations but Harris does so who is more liberal ?



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JI7 (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:25 AM

6. I agree. I'd rather refer to all of our candidates as Democratic presidential candidates, period.

 

We have enough to worry about with Republicans labeling our candidates, let alone us labeling them as well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:36 AM

7. Personally, I think ideology sucks

 

Each issue is its own thing. A person can have views that don't fall neatly on the spectrum, views that piss off the people who ONLY see the 'D' or the 'R' and often fall into shit flinging fury when a candidate of their party has a view that doesn't fit neatly into the platform or zeitgeist of the Party.

We don't need ideology, we need concrete solutions and we need to elect the person with the most, best solutions regardless of other positions we may not agree with or their perceived 'impure' ideology.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:41 AM

8. Why do we have to put people in boxes like this?

 

Sure, it's easy to label Warren and Sanders as 10s (although I wouldn't put either of them that high), and perhaps Delaney and Ryan at 1 (although I don't know enough about either to suggest they shouldn't be a little higher). But the middle ground is much more fluid. Where would you put Biden? A 3? 5? Well, on certain topics, perhaps he's an 8, while on others he's a 2.

In the cases of Harris and Buttigieg, I'd forego the rating and suggest both are "pragmatic idealists". In my view, both have their progressive ideals, but they also understand that our system makes it very, very difficult to go straight from where we are to where we want to be. It's like the minimum wage. If they came out with a law that said as of tomorrow the minimum wage is now $15/hr, our economy would choke. That's a huge shock for many employers who would suddenly see their payroll double. So instead of a hard cut-over, most proposals see graduated increases over a period of time. Harris and Buttigieg both seem to understand the concept of doing what we can do today, while working towards that ideal.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to wysimdnwyg (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:27 AM

12. Excellent post.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:51 AM

9. How about looking at their voting records?

 

http://www.progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

At least for the Senate.

Harris ranks higher than Sanders, and is right there with Warren.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:26 AM

11. I love (almost) all and will FULLY support our nominee.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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