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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:16 PM

 

Joe Biden Is Coming for Your Legal Weed


The former VP and 2020 candidate's plan for cannabis is the industry's worst nightmare: It could blow up the system across the country.

Biden's plan calls for moving marijuana from schedule I to schedule II, that's a good thing, right? Wrong. Here's why:

In his 40 years in the Senate, as is now well known, Biden was a key architect of harsh criminal penalties for nonviolent drug users. Undoing much of his own work was one way to make sense of a large part of the criminal justice plan his presidential campaign recently released. Finding a centrist's safe-and-happy medium on weed in particular, Biden has not embraced legalization—a.k.a. commercialized, recreational pot use—but has claimed to back decriminalization, or removing at least most pot offenses from the criminal justice system.

But Biden is actually pushing a policy that could wreck the growing American weed industry and massively disrupt users' access to the drug, attorneys, consultants, academics, and entrepreneurs well-versed in US cannabis policy say.

...

The proposal would do for cannabis "the same thing it’s done for meth: Ensure reduced research initiatives, selective prosecution, and a thriving black market," said Michael Backes, a Southern California-based cannabis industry consultant and author of Cannabis Pharmacy: The Practical Guide to Medical Marijuana.

Selling cannabis like other Schedule II drugs, in "a closed system, only by prescription, only sold by licensed pharmacies, would be massively disruptive," Herzberg concluded. "It would produce massive changes—and if it were actually enforced, there could be no recreational marijuana at all."


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43kg3m/joe-biden-is-coming-for-your-legal-recreational-weed

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Arrow 242 replies Author Time Post
Reply Joe Biden Is Coming for Your Legal Weed (Original post)
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 OP
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #1
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #7
LakeArenal Aug 2019 #19
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #25
Hortensis Aug 2019 #70
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #131
Lordquinton Aug 2019 #147
Hortensis Aug 2019 #152
Perseus Aug 2019 #89
DrToast Aug 2019 #93
Gothmog Aug 2019 #100
LakeArenal Aug 2019 #106
treestar Aug 2019 #145
onetexan Aug 2019 #161
InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2019 #205
lapucelle Aug 2019 #57
LakeArenal Aug 2019 #61
Gothmog Aug 2019 #104
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #160
Champion Jack Aug 2019 #185
DrToast Aug 2019 #14
Hortensis Aug 2019 #60
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #162
Skya Rhen Aug 2019 #219
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #222
pnwmom Aug 2019 #16
George II Aug 2019 #47
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #155
pnwmom Aug 2019 #156
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #163
pnwmom Aug 2019 #165
Andy823 Aug 2019 #20
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #73
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #164
Andy823 Aug 2019 #189
Skya Rhen Aug 2019 #220
Andy823 Aug 2019 #221
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #224
Skya Rhen Aug 2019 #228
Demsrule86 Aug 2019 #237
redstatebluegirl Aug 2019 #128
ancianita Aug 2019 #2
Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2019 #3
NurseJackie Aug 2019 #11
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #75
treestar Aug 2019 #146
Autumn Aug 2019 #24
still_one Aug 2019 #78
NurseJackie Aug 2019 #117
MrsCoffee Aug 2019 #198
Gothmog Aug 2019 #199
ehrnst Aug 2019 #238
InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2019 #206
jcgoldie Aug 2019 #4
DesertRat Aug 2019 #9
InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2019 #207
mobeau69 Aug 2019 #5
KPN Aug 2019 #113
InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2019 #208
Quemado Aug 2019 #6
yaesu Aug 2019 #8
DesertRat Aug 2019 #13
DrToast Aug 2019 #29
yaesu Aug 2019 #64
Cha Aug 2019 #159
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Cha Aug 2019 #169
DesertRat Aug 2019 #187
PatrickforO Aug 2019 #48
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Cartoonist Aug 2019 #10
mobeau69 Aug 2019 #18
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Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #68
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progressoid Aug 2019 #214
InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2019 #210
Post removed Aug 2019 #12
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #15
BannonsLiver Aug 2019 #30
George II Aug 2019 #35
George II Aug 2019 #37
Perseus Aug 2019 #92
George II Aug 2019 #94
GemDigger Aug 2019 #143
George II Aug 2019 #17
mobeau69 Aug 2019 #22
George II Aug 2019 #26
Autumn Aug 2019 #21
DrToast Aug 2019 #23
Autumn Aug 2019 #28
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SouthernProgressive Aug 2019 #49
Autumn Aug 2019 #77
DrToast Aug 2019 #83
Autumn Aug 2019 #98
DrToast Aug 2019 #101
Autumn Aug 2019 #112
DrToast Aug 2019 #115
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DrToast Aug 2019 #124
Lordquinton Aug 2019 #154
DrToast Aug 2019 #157
George II Aug 2019 #167
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George II Aug 2019 #168
Autumn Aug 2019 #171
George II Aug 2019 #172
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Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #182
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emmaverybo Aug 2019 #204
LakeArenal Aug 2019 #108
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #110
Autumn Aug 2019 #114
LakeArenal Aug 2019 #142
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LakeArenal Aug 2019 #153
PatrickforO Aug 2019 #46
DrToast Aug 2019 #52
Cartoonist Aug 2019 #96
DrToast Aug 2019 #102
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lapucelle Aug 2019 #130
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lapucelle Aug 2019 #158
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lapucelle Aug 2019 #217
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lapucelle Aug 2019 #236
melman Aug 2019 #230
lapucelle Aug 2019 #218
Peacetrain Aug 2019 #27
kiri Aug 2019 #31
crazytown Aug 2019 #33
DrToast Aug 2019 #42
Princetonian Aug 2019 #34
DrToast Aug 2019 #38
George II Aug 2019 #40
lapfog_1 Aug 2019 #36
PatrickforO Aug 2019 #39
George II Aug 2019 #44
PatrickforO Aug 2019 #50
George II Aug 2019 #56
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #59
George II Aug 2019 #74
Autumn Aug 2019 #134
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #135
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #79
lapucelle Aug 2019 #90
Uncle Joe Aug 2019 #43
lapucelle Aug 2019 #72
Uncle Joe Aug 2019 #126
lapucelle Aug 2019 #132
mr_lebowski Aug 2019 #223
lapucelle Aug 2019 #225
mr_lebowski Aug 2019 #227
lapucelle Aug 2019 #234
lapucelle Aug 2019 #51
DrToast Aug 2019 #53
lapucelle Aug 2019 #54
highplainsdem Aug 2019 #58
DrToast Aug 2019 #71
33taw Aug 2019 #55
BamaRefugee Aug 2019 #62
Captain Zero Aug 2019 #63
Pathwalker Aug 2019 #65
highplainsdem Aug 2019 #66
DrToast Aug 2019 #69
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #133
DrToast Aug 2019 #136
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #137
DrToast Aug 2019 #139
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #85
lark Aug 2019 #80
mtnsnake Aug 2019 #82
MarvinGardens Aug 2019 #84
DrToast Aug 2019 #87
RGTIndy Aug 2019 #86
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #88
lapucelle Aug 2019 #97
Gothmog Aug 2019 #99
Scurrilous Aug 2019 #120
questionseverything Aug 2019 #183
awesomerwb1 Aug 2019 #105
bluedovepdx Aug 2019 #107
DrToast Aug 2019 #111
bluedovepdx Aug 2019 #118
DrToast Aug 2019 #121
bluedovepdx Aug 2019 #125
elocs Aug 2019 #123
bluedovepdx Aug 2019 #127
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #150
questionseverything Aug 2019 #201
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #138
Hortensis Aug 2019 #151
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #196
Hortensis Aug 2019 #212
NNadir Aug 2019 #141
treestar Aug 2019 #144
aikoaiko Aug 2019 #170
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Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #216
quickesst Aug 2019 #209
aidbo Aug 2019 #213
duforsure Aug 2019 #215
Tarc Aug 2019 #235
Joe941 Aug 2019 #242

Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:21 PM

1. More attacks...

 

Why not simply explain why your candidate is the best choice...Weed is currently a schedule 1 drug, yet is still sold in the states that have approved it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:25 PM

7. His position is wrong and out of step.

 

But for sure I will look for your posts in this forum and note when they are not "explain(ing) why your candidate is the best choice."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:49 PM

19. He's the best choice because he is most experienced nationally and especially globally.

 

I can still find pot any day of the week. I can’t get rid of a despot so easily.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:54 PM

25. Oh boy. You said it. NT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:48 PM

70. "Former Drug Warrior Biden Unveils Cannabis Decriminalization Plan"

 

That's a July 23 headline from marijuana industry website, Leafly.com.

https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/joe-biden-marijuana-decriminalization-plan

... President Biden’s cannabis decriminalization would come with automatic expungements of past marijuana records, support for federal medical legalization, and a downgrade of cannabis to Schedule II, “so researchers can study its positive and negative impacts.”

As for adult-use federal legalization, Biden echoed President Trump’s position in recent years, stating he would, “leave decisions regarding legalization for recreational use up to the states.”

That last's very sensible and appropriate in this dangerously volatile era. This is a big culture wars issue, and the people of each state need to be able to decide. Remember what happened after SCOTUS forced legalization of gay marriage on the nation? The intense angry backlash, even in many states where majorities supported it, it was a big factor in electing Trump in the first place.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #70)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:59 PM

131. Important post. Thanks for the link and your insight. NT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #70)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:59 PM

147. Former drug warrior does no such thing

 

The excerpt in the OP went over this.

You can't "leave it up to the states" while keeping it federally restricted. It's a dishonest position.

Meanwhile all trump has to do is toss out a line that he will legalize it federally and we lose tons of support. Embracing a platform of federal legalization (or decriminalization, or whatever semantics you want to put in there) won't lose anyone, and will gain people in the end.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #147)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:10 PM

152. Mine is from an industry source with very strong interest

 

in being able to continue selling its product. Its market includes professionals in the industry who are already informed and typically able to pick up very quickly on, and object to, inaccuracies.

Vice is a somewhat left-bias political site. So this particular author wants someone else to win. So what? When we are informing ourselves, we need to make up our own minds, not just absorb the opinions so conveniently and determinedly served up to us.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:20 PM

89. If Marihuana is criminalized you may be able to find it, but then you could go to jail

 

We need to stop being fanatics, we have to agree when a policy brought up by our favourite candidate is not a good policy and then try to let our favourite candidate why you think it is not a good policy, but accepting everything from the candidate you support because you just cannot see any wrong from him/her? That is bad, that is what the repubs do with the creature, they turn their heads the other way, as long as they can continue with their personal agendas.

No, we have to make everyone accountable for their bad ideas, their bad policies, and anything which is counterproductive to the country, to make them change them, otherwise we become fanatics and we may end up like the republicans, a bunch of lemmin
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Perseus (Reply #89)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:27 PM

93. It's already criminalized. Biden wants to decriminalize it

 

We need to stop distorting politicians positions just because you don’t like them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to DrToast (Reply #93)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:42 PM

100. You are using facts against an anti-Biden hit piece

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Perseus (Reply #89)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:57 PM

106. Maybe you may turn out a lemming, but I assure you I won't....

 


MJ is criminalized. It's been criminalized for 50 years or more. I've been headed to jail for 40yrs

Don't use fear tactics to win a point. Sure we'd like to be legal but we aren't. Probably won't be and will still consume very regularly.

It is you who is framing me as "I) just cannot see any wrong from him/her? That is bad, that is what the repubs do"

You seem to be the one demanding a purity test. That's what repubs do..


This is a fake issue as far as I am concerned... Joe Biden is the most qualified to rid us of a despot....

I will be smoking from now to then.... Legal or not. Corporatized or not. Once Dump is removed... I will consider joining your cause...
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Perseus (Reply #89)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:52 PM

145. I don't know if it's a good or bad policy

 

but it is also pretty far down on my list of issues. Number one is to get Tangerine Idi Amin out of the White House. Number two, recover foreign policy. This is above busing but not in the top ten.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:42 PM

161. +1 -K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 01:51 AM

205. Fair point.

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:24 PM

57. The Vice headline is a misleading distortion.

 

I'll defend Biden against this kind of attack even though he's not my candidate.

"Democrat X is coming to take your Y"

sounds uncomfortably close to right wing messaging tactics.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #57)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:33 PM

61. Tip of the hat and thanks!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:52 PM

104. Former Drug Warrior Biden Unveils Cannabis Decriminalization Plan

 




Democratic presidential front-runner Joe Biden tacked away from his drug warrior past with a new plan Tuesday. He wants to reduce mass incarceration in the US with a 10-page proposal including: decriminalization of cannabis, $20 billion in prevention funds for communities, efforts to reduce racial profiling by police, more job training in prisons, ending private prisons, and other proposals.

“Today, too many people are incarcerated in the United States–and too many of them are black and brown,” Biden’s team said in a post to his campaign website on Tuesday. “To build safe and healthy communities, we need to rethink who we’re sending to jail, how we treat those in jail, and how we help them get the health care, education, jobs, and housing they need to successfully rejoin society after they serve their time.”

According to FBI reports, cannabis is a key driver of mass incarceration—marijuana arrests are the number one type of drug arrest in the US, and drug arrests are the number one type of arrest police make. Former Vice President Biden’s cannabis decriminalization would come with automatic expungements of past marijuana records, support for federal medical legalization, and a downgrade of cannabis to Schedule II, “so researchers can study its positive and negative impacts.”

As for adult-use federal legalization, Biden echoed President Trump’s position in recent years, stating he would, “leave decisions regarding legalization for recreational use up to the states.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:41 PM

160. This hit job of a OP is not true.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:39 PM

185. this is so wrong

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:45 PM

14. The article is nonsense

 

Biden has repeatedly said he’s okay with leaving marijuana legality up to the states.

Now that’s not my preferred position, but this article is trying to mislead people that making it schedule II would make things worse.

That is straight up false.

Anything the article says in an attempt to scare people away from Biden could just as easily happen under the current scheduling. And we already know Biden has no interest in enforcing federal laws when it comes to marijuana legality.

It’s fine if you don’t like Biden’s overall views on the issue. I don’t. But this article is straight up garbage fear-mongering.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DrToast (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:33 PM

60. Agitprop for idiots. ANSWER: What is congress.

 

QUESTION: Which branch of government writes and passes legislation?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to DrToast (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:42 PM

162. I know but they have nothing...all the other stuff has failed from flores to I was that girl...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #162)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 09:07 AM

219. Yeah, Flores led me to DU to stand up for Joe and "I was that girl"

 

gives me even more inspiration to fight for this decent, authentic, compassionate human being.

I’m no longer on the sidelines - I’m all in for Joe...
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #219)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 10:09 AM

222. Me too...and yesterday a poster out and out said he wouldn't vote for Joe in the General...and

 

the post is still up...unbelievable.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:47 PM

16. Because this is a bad policy that should be called out. Biden shouldn't get a pass on it,

 

under the misguided view that everyone should simply post happy ads for their candidates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to pnwmom (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:09 PM

47. Unfortunately nothing from that article is based on Biden's "policy".

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to pnwmom (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:21 PM

155. Oh please...none of this shit will work...but have at it...

 

It has been posted...his position about how he would not interfere with states...Biden can beat Trump doubt anyone else can...so you only hurt our chances with this stuff.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #155)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:22 PM

156. I think the key to beating Trump has to do more with GOTV

 

and election security than anything else.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to pnwmom (Reply #156)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:43 PM

163. It really doesn't...it matters what states you can win...if Trump win PA, WI and MI...he wins...

 

PA is particularly important...and most of the other candidates will not win blue wall states.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #163)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:50 PM

165. He only won those states -- all of which were strongly impacted by voter suppression --

 

by a total of 80,000 votes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:50 PM

20. Really?

 

So anyone the points out things about Biden are "attacking" him, but when you and your fellow Biden supporters go after Harris, it's just stating the facts, even though in many cases they really are "not" facts.

I think everyone should be pointing out why their candidate is the best choice, and that goes for the Biden supporters. The Harris supporters are doing just that, pointing out why she is the best choice, they are not attacking Biden.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Andy823 (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:53 PM

73. Please point things out, you are entitled to your opinion. Opinions and facts- 2 different things

 

When I hear Mr. Biden say he is going “out law” weed then I will buy it. Until then it’s an opinion
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Andy823 (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:45 PM

164. Sorry...she started the 'I was that girl" campaign...complete with t shires...so no.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #164)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:07 PM

189. She was the girl

 

And Joe was complete unprepared in the first debate. Did she commit a crime by questioning him? I don't think so. She did it once, and so some of the Biden group here decided it was "war", and they have been going after her since then. Seems like over kill to me, and it hasn't affected her, she is still drawing in the crowds, thousand of them, and she will continue to do so.

I was just pointing out the double standard where it's OK to attack others, just don't question what Joe says!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Andy823 (Reply #189)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 09:11 AM

220. 9%

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #220)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 10:07 AM

221. 7 months

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #189)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 10:21 AM

224. Yeah you are right he was...I guess he didn't expect to be stabbed in the back by Harris

 

a person he campaigned for...but it says more about who she is than Biden...kind of a despicable thing to do to someone you are on friendly terms with and there was a pledge which she ignored...now she doesn't want to defend her past actions and wants Trump to be the 'focus' of the next debate...but she will have to...the lower tier candidates will see to that. She seems to be slipping in the polls. I liked Kamala and would vote for her in general of course, but didn't like her behavior during the first debate...some may approve of this sort of thing, I do not...especially against fellow Democrats...she basically called him a racist and attempted to do it in the second debate as well in my opinion. well, it backfired this time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #224)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:39 AM

228. Backfired bigly! Per Morning Consult's post-debate analysis:

 

Harris’s performance set her back: Along with losing 3 points in vote share, Harris’s net favorability dropped by 11 points (seven points more than any other candidate).

Biden didn’t make gains, but he weathered attacks: Despite facing criticisms from competitors all night, Biden held steady in terms of favorability and vote share.

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Political-Intelligence-8.5.19.pdf
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #228)

Wed Aug 7, 2019, 08:36 AM

237. Thank you Sky...I hoped this would be the outcome...and have to laugh at the outrage over

 

Tulsi's 'attacks' on Sen. Harris. who opened the door to this sort of thing!
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:53 PM

128. I agree, I think many of these "undecideds" are anything but that.

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:21 PM

2. Not cool, Joe. Not cool.

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:22 PM

3. This is disqualifying

 

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Undecided

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:36 PM

11. LOL

 

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:54 PM

75. Indeed LOL

 

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:53 PM

146. and another

 

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:52 PM

24. He need to drop out. Sooner rather than later.

 

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Undecided

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:04 PM

78. Disqualifying is hiring people in your campaign who voted for Jill Stein

 

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Response to still_one (Reply #78)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:13 PM

117. Thank you! THAT is TRULY something that's disqualifying.

 

It makes me sick.
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Response to still_one (Reply #78)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 11:31 PM

198. This just a game to some people.

 

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Response to still_one (Reply #78)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:13 AM

199. I agree

 

Hiring Jill Stein supporters is a bad move
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Response to still_one (Reply #78)

Thu Aug 8, 2019, 10:33 AM

238. +1000000.

 

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 01:55 AM

206. I disagree that it's disqualifying... but, it certainly raises a "red flag."

 

It's one of several positions I don't understand... perhaps, over time, Joe will see the error in his ways and come over to Bernie's way of thinking, as have so many other candidates.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:23 PM

4. Biden needs to come out of the weeds on this issue...

 

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Undecided

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:31 PM

9. I see what you did there

 

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 01:56 AM

207. You mean come INTO the weeds!!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:23 PM

5. No worries.

 

He'll probably forget.
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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:09 PM

113. Ouch! But good one.

 

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Undecided

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 01:57 AM

208. Okay, that was funny!!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:25 PM

6. Deal breaker - I'm not voting for Joe in my state's primary.

 

This is going backwards.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:30 PM

8. oh no, I can't kiss the sky. nt

 

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Response to yaesu (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:42 PM

13. Many people use weed for pain management, not just to get high

 

I have a relative who finds relief for severe back pain with marijuana edibles instead of hydrocodone.
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Response to DesertRat (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:55 PM

29. Then you should support rescheduling

 

Because currently, according to the federal government, marijuana has no medicinal benefits.
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Response to DesertRat (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:36 PM

64. I don't think their should be any restrictions on weed. There should be age limits for

 

non medical use but thats it. I'm not buying that Bidens plan is the death of it but we need a more progressive system for dealing with it, like, treat it like cigarettes.
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Response to DesertRat (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:40 PM

159. It's a good thing Biden want to "decriminalize" it and leave to the

 

states, then.

Asked by CNN if the former vice president supports legalizing marijuana, Andrew Bates, a Biden campaign spokesman, said Biden believes the drug should be decriminalized and that decisions on legalization should continue on the state level.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287228597

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Response to Cha (Reply #159)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:54 PM

166. I support legalization on a federal level, as do a majority of Americans.

 

Only 33 states allow doctors to prescribe medical marijuana which is effective in many patients who otherwise need opioids.

I'm not in favor of "leaving it up to the states". My relative couldn't bring his medical weed with him recently on a trip to NC to attend funeral even though he carries and pays (a lot) for a AZ medical marijuana card. Ridiculous.
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Response to DesertRat (Reply #166)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:09 PM

169. Yes.. that would be great when we

 

get a Democratic President in.

But, Biden is Not coming for anyone's Weed as the OP says.
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Response to Cha (Reply #169)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:01 PM

187. I agree with you

 

The OP title is hyperbole.
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Response to yaesu (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:09 PM

48. I thought that was purple haze.

 

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #48)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:43 PM

67. there was a rich young man in our one factory town back around 1970, from a very well known

 

family who decided to open a pool hall in our very conservative town and call it the Purple Haze, it lived up to its name
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Response to yaesu (Reply #67)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:39 PM

122. LOL, well the rich kids used to get the best drugs, didn't they?

 

And now, Purple Haze is a strain of marijuana! Who knew!

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #122)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 02:07 AM

211. Scuze me while I kiss the sky!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:32 PM

10. Please drop out, Joe

 

Thank you for your past work, but this is now the 21st century.
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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:49 PM

18. No shit!

 

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Undecided

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:03 PM

41. Pass the torch, Joe.

 

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Response to Quemado (Reply #41)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:03 PM

149. Pass The Dutchie

 

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Undecided

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:06 PM

45. And, Don't Bogart That Joint, Joe

 

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:45 PM

68. The OP is nonsense. Leaving it to the states is the best way, which was President Obama's policy

 

Not to mention the source.. really vice is one of the most light weight far far left crap sites out there
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #68)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:56 PM

129. in general, leaving decisions to states that affect all Americans hasn't worked out well.

 

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Undecided

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #129)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:03 PM

179. I'm in Illinois, state #11 to pass a good bill for legalization. Everyone here feels it's a really

 

Good start. As a nation we have to start somewhere. There will always be red states that would push against federal legalization. Just like the ACA... I actually think it’s the smarter way
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #68)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 05:40 AM

214. It's not the best way.

 



https://www.westword.com/news/nebraska-pot-busts-up-near-co-border-are-police-policy-changes-the-reason-7979369
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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 02:02 AM

210. I agree Joe is a out of step, but, sposedly, he has the best chance of defeating tRumpty Dumbty...

 

I'm not sure if that's true, but, certainly Joe polls well enough - along with other candidates against the Racist-in-Chief - that there's no good reason he should drop out of the race.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:45 PM

15. well that is disturbing and unexpected.

 

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Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:56 PM

30. What's disturbing is people posting shit from the Daily Caller on DU

 

Which is against the rules. But hey if it hurts him and helps my team anything goes, I guess.

Rah! rah!
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:00 PM

35. Everything from the Daily Caller is disturbing and unexpected, and about 99% false....

 

....when they refer to Democrats.
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Response to Post removed (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:01 PM

37. Typical right wing Daily Caller trash, "reportedly", meaning they made it up....

 

Then they added "Biden later corrected himself, the Washington Examiner reported." - Washington Examiner, another right wing source.

I suggest you delete that post.
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Response to George II (Reply #37)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:24 PM

92. I think the best thing for Biden supporters is to find his policy on Marihuana

 

then post it here for everyone to read. That should end the discussion. Fact are there to defend your point, otherwise you become a fanatic with no real knowledge of what you candidate supports.
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Response to Perseus (Reply #92)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:28 PM

94. Other than a sentence or two he really hasn't articulated an in-depth policy. Rightfully....

 

....he's concentrating on issues that are much more important than marijuana. But I'm sure he'll address it before we reach the primaries.

I just get exasperated when biased blog/news writers take a few words and expound on them with their own slant on it, like the Vice writer did.
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Response to Perseus (Reply #92)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:47 PM

143. I think the best thing for Biden supporters is to make up their own mind on Joe.

 

The whole country does not smoke pot. Not all democrats smoke it/use it/medicate with it. Not all democrats vote with pot as the number 1 issue.

I smoke pot. I wish it were legalized but I am more worried about Russia, China, Iraq and the Imposter posing as president.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:49 PM

17. Nothing has significantly changed in months. This article is just stirring it up.

 

Notice that nothing in that article cites anything specific about Biden's "plan", it's just negative hysteria.

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Response to George II (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:51 PM

22. And the excuses just keep on coming.

 

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Undecided

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #22)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:54 PM

26. What excuses? Can anyone here or at Vice say specifically what Biden's plan is?

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:50 PM

21. Moving marijuana from schedule I to schedule II is the stupidest idea I have seen.

 

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Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #21)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:52 PM

23. Care to explain why you think it should remain Schedule I?

 

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Response to DrToast (Reply #23)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:55 PM

28. Care to explain why you think it should be a Schedule II? I know what Joe thinks, but he's

 

about 40 years behind everyone else and wrong. As usual.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:59 PM

32. Yup. I expected that

 

No rational response. Just attacks on Biden without any knowledge of why you’re attacking.

I gotta say, Vice sure trolled the hell out of this forum.

And I’ll answer your question, even though you ignored mine.

I don’t think marijuana should be schedule I because I believe it has medicinal uses.

Now will you answer my question? Why do you think marijuana should remain schedule I?
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Response to DrToast (Reply #32)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:10 PM

49. "No rational response."

 

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Response to DrToast (Reply #32)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:04 PM

77. Usual response from a Biden supporter. Your answer is in the article.

 

The proposal would do for cannabis "the same thing it’s done for meth: Ensure reduced research initiatives, selective prosecution, and a thriving black market," said Michael Backes, a Southern California-based cannabis industry consultant and author of Cannabis Pharmacy: The Practical Guide to Medical Marijuana.

Selling cannabis like other Schedule II drugs, in "a closed system, only by prescription, only sold by licensed pharmacies, would be massively disruptive," Herzberg concluded. "It would produce massive changes—and if it were actually enforced, there could be no recreational marijuana at all."

Drugs listed under Schedule II (which include cocaine and methamphetamine as well as prescription opiates like fentanyl) are available legally but only under strict Food and Drug Administration controls. That is, only with a doctor's prescription, only after a lengthy FDA-overseen approval process that can include years of clinical trials (and then sold only via a licensed pharmacy), and only for limited applications.


The reason marijuana is a Schedule I drug is because they ignore studies that prove it has medical use. There is a big difference between a schedule I drug that has a high potential for abuse and a schedule II drug that has a high potential for abuse leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. Marijuana does not lead to severe psychological or physical dependence.

Some of the Schedule II drugs as defined by the United States Controlled Substances Act. ... are hydromorphone Dilaudid, methadone Dolophine, meperidine Demerol, oxycodone OxyContin , Percocet and, morphine, opium, codeine, and hydrocodone.

Those drugs are tightly controlled by the government and doctors are not willing to prescribe them as needed so a lot of people with chronic pain suffer needlessly. They will use the bullshit excuse that marijuana is classified as a drug with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. Which is outdated and has been proven false. These drugs are also considered dangerous. The only thing marijuana is a danger to is a box of Twinkies or a pizza.

Make it a schedule II drug and people will not have access to it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Autumn (Reply #77)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:08 PM

83. So you believe making it Schedule II will make it harder to get?

 

Oh I can’t even.

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Response to DrToast (Reply #83)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:41 PM

98. That's what some experts say. And if you bothered to read the article that spells out some more.

 

After all, FDA-approved drugs must survive a battery of clinical trials before they can be marketed and sold. Many cannabis companies don't have the resources enjoyed by a Merck or a Pfizer to pay for those trials without a revenue stream. And selling cannabis in a pharmacy rather than dispensaries would likely trash both the normal sales model in which Americans legally access weed, as well as the taxation structure set up in those states.

It's not clear exactly how Biden hit upon Schedule II as the magic solution, or if he took input from drug-policy reform advocates or cannabis industry players—or took cues instead from the anti-legalization activists working against them. A spokesman for Biden's campaign did not respond to emails, text messages, or a phone call seeking comment.

"There's no way this [Biden's plan] will ever go far enough to remedy the damages these communities of color have suffered," said Solonje Burnett, co-founder of the Brooklyn-based cannabis brand hub Humble Bloom, adding that his was a "half measure" that put him on "the wrong side of history, again."

Indeed, within hours of the plan's release, Biden was critiqued—or subtweeted, really—by fellow presidential hopeful Cory Booker, who has proposed full legalization on the federal level. But he's not just behind his fellow Democrats. According to a bevy of industry players interviewed, Biden's plan would be worse for weed in America than anything proposed under Donald Trump.


I'm going to go with the part I bolded as to how he came up with his plan.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #98)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:47 PM

101. I read the article. Now maybe you can read Biden's

 

positions on the matter, rather blindly accepting hit pieces on Vice.

Biden wants to decriminalize marijuana on the federal level. He also supports leaving legality up to the states.

Those are his positions. Now if you’ll notice, that’s completely at odds with this bullshit article. Why do you suppose that is?
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Response to DrToast (Reply #101)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:08 PM

112. Unless the Controlled Substances Act is amended to fit the policies of individual states

 

that won't work. Legal marijuana businesses can not take deductions for their business expenses or use banks for their money in states where it is legal, because of federal rules about money laundering. Why do you suppose Biden didn't address that in his "plan"?
There is a big difference between decriminalization and legalization.

Decriminalization is a loosening of criminal penalties now imposed for personal marijuana use even though the manufacturing and sale of the substance remain illegal. Essentially, under decriminalization, law enforcement is instructed to look the other way when it comes to the possession of small amounts of marijuana meant for personal use. Under decriminalization, both the production and sale of marijuana remain unregulated by the state. Those caught using the substance face civil fines instead of criminal charges.


Legalization on the other hand, is the lifting or abolishment of laws banning the possession and personal use of marijuana. More importantly, legalization allows the government to regulate and tax marijuana use and sales. Proponents also make the case that taxpayers can save millions of dollars by removing from the judicial system the hundreds of thousands of offenders caught with small amounts of marijuana.

"Decriminalization is only half the answer. As long as supplying drugs remains illegal, the business will remain a criminal monopoly. Jamaica’s gangsters will continue to enjoy total control over the ganja market. They will go on corrupting police, murdering their rivals and pushing their products to children. People who buy cocaine in Portugal face no criminal consequences, but their euros still end up paying the wages of the thugs who saw off heads in Latin America. For the producer countries, going easy on drug-users while insisting that the product remain illegal is the worst of all worlds."


https://www.thoughtco.com/decriminalization-versus-legalization-of-marijuana-3368393
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Response to Autumn (Reply #112)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:12 PM

115. Those problems still exist under Schedule I.

 

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Response to DrToast (Reply #115)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:18 PM

119. Which is why some of the candidates are for removing pot from the federal list of controlled

 

substances. They are leading on this issue. Joe isn't.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/18/2020-democratic-candidates-stand-together-on-marijuana-legalize-it.html
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Response to Autumn (Reply #119)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:41 PM

124. If Biden supports leaving legalization to states...

 

And proposed federally decriminalizing it, there is no mechanism by which marijuana would be harder to get if it was Schedule II.
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Response to DrToast (Reply #124)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:16 PM

154. Why do you want to keep the decision out of the state's hands?

 

Your insisting that it remain 100% under federal control.
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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #154)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:29 PM

157. I'm not.

 

I’m in favor of federal legalization. I wish Biden was, too. What I’m not in favor of is articles that deliberately distort positions in order to get people scared.

“Joe Biden is coming for your legal weed.”

Give me a f’ing break. Nothing Biden has said or done remotely warrants such an article.
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Response to DrToast (Reply #32)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:06 PM

167. You ask a question and get an irrelevant question about why you think something you didn't....

 

....say. Amazing, isn't it?
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Response to Autumn (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:59 PM

76. Yes, please explain how you think YOU know what mr. Biden thinks

 

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #76)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:05 PM

81. I pay attention to what he says, that's how I know what Biden thinks. nt

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #81)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:23 PM

91. Not buyin it, I'm listening to what you are saying but for me to say I know what YOU are thinking is

 

Speculation and supposition
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #91)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:36 PM

95. So you think that politicians who are campaigning don't talk about what they think?

 

You seem to think that a candidate running for president isn't going to talk about their plans they have thought of for their administration. It sounds like you think the guy you support is just talking to be talking.

It's not clear exactly how Biden hit upon Schedule II as the magic solution, or if he took input from drug-policy reform advocates or cannabis industry players—or took cues instead from the anti-legalization activists working against them. A spokesman for Biden's campaign did not respond to emails, text messages, or a phone call seeking comment.
"There's no way this [Biden's plan] will ever go far enough to remedy the damages these communities of color have suffered," said Solonje Burnett, co-founder of the Brooklyn-based cannabis brand hub Humble Bloom, adding that his was a "half measure" that put him on "the wrong side of history, again."

Indeed, within hours of the plan's release, Biden was critiqued—or subtweeted, really—by fellow presidential hopeful Cory Booker, who has proposed full legalization on the federal level. But he's not just behind his fellow Democrats. According to a bevy of industry players interviewed, Biden's plan would be worse for weed in America than anything proposed under Donald Trump.


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Response to Autumn (Reply #95)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:50 PM

103. Once again... you are not in my head, I am not in yours... it is physically impossible

 

You are still basing your claim on opinion and supposition. Not saying you aren’t entitled to your opinion

And, in reference to the larger issue here about this ridiculous OP please see post #99. The whole thing is nonesense

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287228597#post7
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #103)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:13 PM

116. Nah, not interested.

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #116)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:58 PM

177. Yes, of course you're not. More factless opinion

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #95)

Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:45 PM

239. Could you please try to be just a bit more petty?

 

In our battle against Nazis what we really need to do is nitpick each other and play right into every Russian ploy.

You seem to have missed one or two of those ploys, Autumn.
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Response to Cary (Reply #239)

Thu Aug 8, 2019, 02:09 PM

240. Petty? I would try Cary but you have the market cornered on that with your insults.

 

Do you have a problem with what I posted from the article? If so, discuss it or prove it wrong I don't care.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287228425#post95

Now I'm not interested in another trip down the rabbit hole with you so



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Response to Autumn (Reply #240)

Thu Aug 8, 2019, 06:19 PM

241. Oh.good!

 

You barfed up an "I know you are but what am I."

So clever! And not petty at all Autumn.

(rolling eyeballs)

And hardly predictable.

What horrible thing would happen if you tried being reasonable? What if you actually tried to be nice? What if, Autumn? What if?
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Response to Autumn (Reply #81)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:08 PM

168. Fair enough. Then what did BIDEN say (not what Vice says he said which he didn't say)? Thanks!

 

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Response to George II (Reply #168)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:23 PM

171. You support him. If you don't know what his opinion is and what he thinks of

 

marijuana, it's not up to me to fill you in.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #171)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:31 PM

172. You said you know what Biden thinks, but you don't want to say what that is?

 

Come on Autumn, I've been on this Merry-Go-Round with you before. You said something but leave it up to others to imagine what you're talking about.

Not going to bite tonight. Biden is 100% correct on this issue.

Have a great evening.

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Response to George II (Reply #172)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:42 PM

173. Then you should re read my posts. Start here and work your way down.

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287228425#post21
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Response to Autumn (Reply #173)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:47 PM

174. That's what brought me here in the first place. You don't say anything about it....

 

Like I said, been on this Merry-Go-Round with you before. I'm going to hop off.

Now, when you want to actually tell us about what Biden said or, as you put it, "thinks", I'll buy another ticket and get back on the ride.
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Response to George II (Reply #174)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:53 PM

175. Sure George sure.

 

If my post brought you here and you don't like what I say or how I say it you shouldn't look for my posts to respond to me.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #175)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:59 PM

178. That's what the operator of the Central Park Carousel said when I asked, "can I get off now?"....

 

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Response to George II (Reply #178)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:05 PM

180. I thought you were done with me? I guess not huh.

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #180)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:15 PM

182. Here's Mr. Biden's OFFICAL stance on weed, which should end it.. but

 



https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287228597#post7
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Response to George II (Reply #172)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:06 PM

181. Indeed.. luv luv your waving happy lemon!!

 

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #181)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:59 AM

204. Made me go back and look. He is great and so is your description.

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:03 PM

108. You know what Joe thinks?

 

How did the ardent disser of Joe Biden get the mind meld. How can I get in?

Any opinion you have of Joe Biden is completely irrelevant due to your bias.
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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #108)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:05 PM

110. Oh yes.. I'd like in on that mind meld as well!! Please

 

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #108)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:11 PM

114. Right backatcha on the bias. As for the rest... I know what he said and unless he's lying

 

that's what he thinks.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #114)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:45 PM

142. Yes I am biased pro Biden

 

But I’m not going to take every opportunity to slam Steyer.
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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #142)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:01 PM

148. And I don't take every opportunity to slam Biden. But on pot, he's way behind everyone.

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #148)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:11 PM

153. Sure you bet!

 

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Response to DrToast (Reply #23)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:07 PM

46. I think that's the point. It needs to be OFF both schedules and legalized.

 

Creating more bureaucratic bungling to keep people from using it in states where voters have legalized it recreationally, medically or both is just plain bad policy.

Biden needs to walk back this position or he's going to lose hundreds of thousands of votes.

Sigh.
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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #46)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:14 PM

52. If that's the point

 

Then what they wrote isn’t true:

“Moving marijuana from schedule I to schedule II is the stupidest idea I have seen.”

That clearly suggests they’d rather have it remain Schedule I.

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Response to DrToast (Reply #52)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:39 PM

96. I don't see how you make that conclusion

 

No one is advocating a move to schedule II. It's more like Joe is advocating putting a lock on the barn door after Grand Theft Heifer.
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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #96)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:49 PM

102. "No one is advocating a move to schedule II"

 

Uh what? That is what Biden wants to do. That’s what the article is about.
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Response to DrToast (Reply #102)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:04 PM

109. And that's why they disagree with Joe.

 

I was referring to the article and your wrong accusation. The writer of the article and others responding here did not advocate moving it to schedule II. Only Joe seems to advocate that, and there is some uncertainty there.
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #130)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:33 PM

140. That's all very nice

 

But as I pointed out, I was referring to the OP and members who posted in this thread. I don't understand how people can reach across space to make irrelevant arguments.
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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #140)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:32 PM

158. Joe Biden is advocating for resheduling, and the OP is about his position on pot.

 

There are several activist groups and legislators who would like to see rescheduling as well. A few of our presidential candidates have introduced and/or have supported rescheduling during both past and the present session of Congress. Even WHO is in favor of rescheduling cannabis in an international treaty to which the US is a party.

I'm not sure why anyone would think that links to policy papers and legislation concerning all the people and groups endorsing rescheduling are irrelevant to refuting the unsupported claim that

No one is advocating a move to schedule II

no one
no person; not anyone; nobody


I'm sure the Grand Theft Heifer reference is very clever, but given the fact that if cannabis is not rescheduled to a Class II drug, it will remain where it is now in our federal statute (a Class I drug), you may want to reconsider its relevance in the present discussion.

https://www.dea.gov/drug-scheduling


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Response to lapucelle (Reply #158)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 11:26 PM

197. No one is not universal

 

I was referring to a select group. I'm sorry I left out some words. I assumed too much.

No one other than Joe Biden was supporting a rescheduling. No one among the respondents was supporting a rescheduling.

Is that better?

How about we legalize it and to hell with schedule I or II. As for those articles you linked to, several were about the Carers act which has nothing to do with rescheduling. It's just a workaround to protect medicinal users.
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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #197)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 07:40 AM

217. Legalizing pot on a federal level is more complicated than many people realize

 

due to international drug control treaties. Currently, the US is in compliance with those treaties via a federal statute (Controlled Substances Act). The primary treaty (The Single Convention) does give the party states (countries) some flexibility in scheduling.

The Controlled Substances Act (CSA) is the statute establishing federal U.S. drug policy under which the manufacture, importation, possession, use, and distribution of certain substances is regulated. It was passed by the 91st United States Congress as Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 and signed into law by President Richard Nixon. The Act also served as the national implementing legislation for the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs.


******************************************************************************************************

When the first states (like Colorado and Washington) were readying legislation to legalize pot, the Justice Department signaled to them that it would not launch challenges to the state laws based on the principle that federal law takes primacy.

Colorado and Washington took a leap of faith in approving the use of marijuana for recreational purposes despite conflicting federal law. The United States signaled a potential shift in its perspective by publicly condoning the new legislation.

The United States is not alone; the international community has shown an increased approval, and in some instances outright support, of recreational marijuana. This growing international support warrants an amendment to the Single Convention in order to allow states to legislate recreational marijuana as they see fit without the constraints of international obligations.

Amending the Single Convention would allow the United States to pursue federal legislation similar to that of Colorado and Washington. By legalizing marijuana on the federal level, the United States would see positive gains both domestically and internationally. The United States would stand to gain significant revenue while simultaneously decreasing its prison population and international violence.

Such potentially significant ramifications warrant an amendment to the Single Convention in order to permit party states to weigh these benefits in their own territories without being held hostage by an international treaty that’s no longer in line with popular opinion.


http://minnjil.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Lighten-Up-Amending-the-Single-Convention-on-Narcotic-Drugs.pdf

https://www2.nycbar.org/pdf/report/uploads/3_20072283-InternationalDrugControlTreaties.pdf

https://www.unodc.org/pdf/convention_1961_en.pdf

https://www.tni.org/en/publication/the-un-drug-control-conventions
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #217)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:41 AM

229. Federal

 

Should this happen, does that mean the feds would add their tax to the state tax?
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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #229)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 06:54 PM

236. I suppose they could add a federal tax.

 

Presently about a third of the states that have legalized medical marijuana collect taxes on it, but the state tax isn't necessarily a sales tax paid directly by the consumer.

https://www.foxrothschild.com/content/uploads/2018/08/Cannabis-Tax-E-book-Septemberv2-2018-2.pdf
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #217)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:45 AM

230. lol

 

lol
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Response to Autumn (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 08:47 AM

218. Why is it "the stupidest idea that [you've] ever seen"?

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:55 PM

27. Today of all days.. I could give a flying you know what about whether you want to smoke or not.. as

 

long as those who need it for medical reasons have access...and we get our people out of jail for using.. I could care less, if you get to light up tonight.. ..
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:57 PM

31. Biden stuck in 1930s

 

Biden is hooked on "Reefer Madness" 1930's propaganda, when he was growing up and much influenced by Catholic teachings on birth control, abortion, and sex. He had no concerns about tobacco or alcohol. A product of his time. And he has moved on and evolved somewhat. It's his basic instincts that remain.
He was mightily opposed to hippie culture--peace and pot? better, war and cops and prisons.

Biden has never been a champion of reform of the criminal justice system. He supports every DA and prosecutor, even when the Innocence Project finds prisoners wrongly incarcerated.

Biden is a decent, sometimes thoughtful man, trying to escape from his background. I love that he gives Trump heartburn.

But leadership on pot, big pharma drugs?
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:59 PM

33. Baloney.

 

Biden's proposals leave State law unchanged.
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Response to crazytown (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:04 PM

42. Thank you!

 

Good lord I can’t believe how many people got suckered by this article.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:00 PM

34. "Pearson is also a longtime supporter of Sen. Kamala Harris and recently appeared at a" fundraiser.

 

'Fundamentally, though, the problem is that Schedule II "would still present a conflict with the existing state medical and adult-use cannabis programs that are on the books in 47 states," said Erich Pearson, who owns cannabis dispensaries in San Francisco and in California's Sonoma County, and sits on the board of the Denver-based National Cannabis Industry Association. (Pearson is also a longtime supporter of Sen. Kamala Harris and recently appeared at a Harris presidential campaign fundraiser, according to his Facebook page and FEC filings.)'

Buried at the end:

'Whether a Biden-led FDA would have either the ability or the desire to punish every cannabis operator who violated such a policy framework is doubtful...In his defense, Biden has expressed awareness that the war on drugs as he helped wage it is no longer tenable. Biden "is here saying no one should be in jail because of cannabis use," a senior Biden campaign aide speaking on condition of anonymity told reporters before the plan's release. Biden also "very much believes that we need more research and [to] study the positive and negative impact of cannabis use," added the aide.'
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Response to Princetonian (Reply #34)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:02 PM

38. Yup, total clickbait trolling. Inflammatory headline and then an article that doesn't support it

 

It sure seems to have worked on this forum though.
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Response to Princetonian (Reply #34)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:03 PM

40. Not a single quote of Biden's nor an excerpt from any plan or proposal he's made. Hmmmm.

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:01 PM

36. FUD

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:02 PM

39. Well, Biden has never been my first choice.

 

And now, I cannot understand why he'd come out with this. It is bad policy.

The writing is on the wall. Hemp has been legalized. There are presently only 10 states where marijuana is fully illegal. There are ten states where it is fully legal, and the rest have either partly legalized or decriminalized.

In my state, which dramatically limits the power of the state legislature to raise taxes without a popular vote, the marijuana tax money is going to education and into the breech on other shortfalls.

It is sold from dispensaries that are heavily regulated, clean and because of the federal government's stupidity, deal in cash only.

Now, he wants to put it on Schedule 2? So it is under strict FDA controls? By prescription only? Years of expensive clinical trials?

It saddens me because to put it on Schedule II is a major step backwards. It has parallels to the approach the anti-abortion people are using in some of the southern states - They are trying to reduce the number of abortions by strangling the service supply.

And, NO, I AM NOT BASHING A DEMOCRATIC FIGURE. I am merely pointing out that the policy approach is similar between the two situations - if you don't want recreational marijuana to be obtainable, even in states where the voters have legalized it, then this is the way to go.

But again, it is VERY bad, VERY UNPOPULAR policy that will cost him many thousands of votes in the primaries, and will tend to keep younger people away from the polls. Really bad move.

I am not sure Biden has thought this out. What I believe is that he's consciously trying to play to the center and is taking policy positions he thinks will appeal to that group. But again, you have to watch for those unintended consequences.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:05 PM

44. Unfortunately he "didn't come out with this." Nothing in that Vice article says anything specific..

 

...about any marijuana plan or policy that Biden has come out with. It seized on a single sentence from several months ago and then proceeded to add 99% speculation to that.

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Response to George II (Reply #44)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:12 PM

50. OK, fair enough.

 

Though, if Biden does take such a position, I think it may cost him lots of votes.

But, yes, I do concede the point that most of this article may be speculation designed to generate ratings.

I do hope Biden does not propose such a thing. It would not be good policy.
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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #50)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:22 PM

56. Thanks. He made a comment about possibly changing it from Schedule I to Schedule II, but....

 

....wasn't definite about it. Other than that one comment, I haven't been able to find anything else specific about any policy on marijuana. I don't think he's formally addressed it yet. With everything else going on over the last month or two, that may not be one of his major priorities.

I know it's not one of my top issues or the top issue for many Americans. We've got more important things to worry about.
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Response to George II (Reply #44)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:29 PM

59. It's on his web site.

 

"Decriminalize the use of cannabis and automatically expunge all prior cannabis use convictions. Biden believes no one should be in jail because of cannabis use. As president, he will decriminalize cannabis use and automatically expunge prior convictions. And, he will support the legalization of cannabis for medical purposes, leave decisions regarding legalization for recreational use up to the states, and reschedule cannabis as a schedule II drug so researchers can study its positive and negative impacts."
https://joebiden.com/justice/

The vice article is explaining why schedule II is a bullshit reform, why Biden remains out of step, and why big pharma loves the idea.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #59)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:54 PM

74. Like I said elsewhere here, one single sentence about "cannabis policy" buried in his....

 

....4398 word examination of "The Biden Plan for Strengthening America’s Commitment to Justice" and now it's being portrayed as "Joe Biden is coming for your legal weed"!

I'm not sure that either you or the writer from Vice bothered to read the sentences prior to that.

But, if it can take a gratuitous shot at the front runner, so be it.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #59)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:08 PM

134. Well no wonder no one knew where it was.

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #134)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:10 PM

135. No shit.

 

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:04 PM

79. Please see post #38 above if you read only what's posted here rather than the whole article

 

Trolling click bate by the OP!!
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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:22 PM

90. Cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug at the federal level at the moment.

 

Descheduling is a bit trickier on a federal level because DEA fulfills the our duty to comply with the terms of an international treaty to which the US is a party through its federal drug schedule.

The United States is a party to the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, 1961 (Single Convention), and other international conventions designed to establish effective control over international and domestic traffic in controlled substances. 21 U.S.C. 801(7). The Single Convention entered into force for the United States on June 24, 1967, after the Senate gave its advice and consent to the United States' accession. See Single Convention, 18 U.S.T. 1407. The enactment and enforcement of the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) are the primary means by which the United States carries out its obligations under the Single Convention.[1] Various provisions of the CSA directly reference the Single Convention. One such provision is 21 U.S.C. 811(d)(1), which relates to scheduling of controlled substances.


https://www.newsweek.com/who-recommends-rescheduling-cannabis-international-law-first-time-history-1324613

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/09/28/2018-21121/schedules-of-controlled-substances-placement-in-schedule-v-of-certain-fda-approved-drugs-containing
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:05 PM

43. Big Pharma doesn't need anymore help and too many peoples' lives have already

 

been screwed over or lost because of our draconian, short sighted policies against cannabis.


Thanks for the thread Voltaire.
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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #43)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:51 PM

72. NORML has supported rescheduling legislation in the past.

 

Did they think it was part of a Big Pharma plot?
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #72)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:49 PM

126. How far back in the past are you speaking of?

 



NORML's mission is to move public opinion sufficiently to legalize the responsible use of marijuana by adults, and to serve as an advocate for consumers to assure they have access to high quality marijuana that is safe, convenient and affordable.

https://norml.org/about

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #126)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:06 PM

132. 2016

 

https://blog.norml.org/tag/rescheduling/

NORML would prefer descheduling, but the US is party to an international treaty that has drug schedule compliance conditions. I don't think the US can unilaterally deschedule cannabis on the federal level.

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/single-convention.html

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #72)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 10:14 AM

223. People talk as if 'rescheduling' can only mean Schedule 2 ... but it DOESN'T

 

And it doesn't have to be Schedule 2 to be researched heavily, only has to be bumped down from Schedule I.

Schedule 2 is the most heavily regulated (different from Schedule 1 only in the sense that Rx's are legal in most cases). This schedule implies a high risk of abuse, diversion, and addiction. It means triplicate Rx's. It means strict DEA compliance. It means putting it with Meth, Cocaine, Fentanyl, Oxycontin, Dexedrine, Adderall, etc, instead of with Heroin and LSD in Schedule I where it is now.

It's basically out of the frying pan into the fire.

If you're going to go on record to remove it from Schedule 1, why not say you want to bump it down to, like, Schedule 4, or even 5?

This is a good explanation of the Schedules ... https://www.vox.com/2014/9/25/6842187/drug-schedule-list-marijuana.
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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #223)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 10:52 AM

225. I understand the schedules. Your question concerning rescheduling to a catagory other than II

 

is better addressed to those advocating for the specific change to schedule II. FDA-approved drugs containing cannabidiol (CBD) were rescheduled into category V last year.

WHO also recommends the rescheduling of cannabis.

I'm not advocating for a particular position. I'm just trying to point out some of the complexities involved on the federal level.

https://www.unodc.org/documents/commissions/CND/CND_Sessions/CND_62/41ST_ECDD_RECOMMENDATIONS_-_24_JUNE.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2019/02/01/world-health-organization-recommends-rescheduling-marijuana-under-international-treaties/#3e3db9646bcc



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Response to lapucelle (Reply #225)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:37 AM

227. I don't really have any questions. I think any politician who DID happen to advocate for moving MJ

 

to Schedule 2 (not saying Biden, although it apparently says exactly that on his website) is definitely NOT doing MJ proponents (or indeed the public at large) any favors.

If we're going to reschedule, it should be to Schedule 5. Even 4 is too high, that contains, for example, Xanax, which is both addictive AND very possible to OD on.

There's absolutely no good cause to move it into Schedule 2 if it's going to be moved.
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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #227)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 02:26 PM

234. The shift to schedule II would put pot in a category of drugs with an accepted medical use,

 

and the US would still be in compliance with the Single Convention treaty. Medical marijuana would be available in all 50 states.

Some people would probably argue that those are good reasons to reschedule down one category..

The real problem is with the international treaties. They need to be updated and amended.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:14 PM

51. That's a misleading and alarmist headline from the fine journalists at Vice.

 

It reminds me of the similarly alarmist talking point that the right wing is so fond of "The Democrats are coming for your guns!"

Joe Biden supports decriminalizing marijuana, a Biden campaign spokesman told CNN, but the former vice president isn't going as far as calling for the drug to be legalized on the federal level.
"Nobody should be in jail for smoking marijuana," Biden told voters at a Tuesday house party in Nashua, New Hampshire.

Asked by CNN if the former vice president supports legalizing marijuana, Andrew Bates, a Biden campaign spokesman, said Biden believes the drug should be decriminalized and that decisions on legalization should continue on the state level.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/politics/joe-biden-marijuana-decriminalization/index.html

But in a new statement to CNN, a spokesperson for the former vice president said that he now “supports decriminalizing marijuana and automatically expunging prior criminal records for marijuana possession, so those affected don’t have to figure out how to petition for it or pay for a lawyer.”

He would allow states to continue to make their own choices regarding legalization and would seek to make it easier to conduct research on marijuana’s positive and negative health impacts by rescheduling it as a schedule 2 drug,” the representative said.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/marijuana/2019/05/17/joe-biden-endorses-marijuana-decriminalization-and-rescheduling-but-not-legalization/IMTpiMiXKt98vwKuPd5cFM/story.html

I'd look for additional information from a variety of sources before I'd fully endorse an opinion piece at Vice. And I'd also pay attention to anything going on with industry lobbyists.

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/429141-boehner-to-lead-new-lobbying-group-for-cannabis

Caveat lector

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #51)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:15 PM

53. Thank you. This thread is embarrassing.

 

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Response to DrToast (Reply #53)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:19 PM

54. Distortions and fear mongering are generally not characteristic of Democratic Party discourse.

 

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #51)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:24 PM

58. Vice.com had a more accurate, less fearmongering article a couple of weeks ago:

 

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/zmppna/joe-biden-doesnt-want-to-legalize-weed-but-he-doesnt-want-anyone-to-go-to-jail-for-it



Btw, I agree completely with what you said about the article cited in the OP being reminiscent of "the similarly alarmist talking point that the right wing is so fond of 'The Democrats are coming for your guns!'"



I want to point out, too, that with more government research on weed, which Biden is proposing, then we could very well end up, fairly soon, with federal legalization of weed, backed by scientific research.

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #58)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:48 PM

71. Much better/fairer article

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:19 PM

55. About 3000th on my list of worries. I'll take Joe Biden any day.

 

Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:17 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:34 PM

62. Biden's candidacy goes up in smoke!

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)


Response to Captain Zero (Reply #63)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:42 PM

65. Read post #51. Article is misleading, at best.

 

n/t
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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #63)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:42 PM

66. If you stay home on election day, you help Trump get re-elected. If you think there's anything okay

 

about that...
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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #63)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:47 PM

69. "Hillary Clinton Campaign Says She Would Reschedule Marijuana"

 

Did you sit out 2016?

Because Biden’s position is the same as Clinton’s was.

https://time.com/4449322/hillary-clinton-marijuana-schedule-dea/?amp=true
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Response to DrToast (Reply #69)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:07 PM

133. Her position was wrong too.

 

Last time I checked two wrongs don’t make a right.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #133)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:10 PM

136. I was asking Captain Zero if he sat out 2016

 

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Response to DrToast (Reply #136)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:13 PM

137. It's not 2016.

 

Times have changed.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #137)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:18 PM

139. Are you answering for Captain Zero?

 

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #63)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:10 PM

85. Your terrible attitude is exactly why we have what we have. Guess you must be okay with 4 more yrs

 

Of the dotard.

Seriously, if that’s how you feel, you are not a democrat and should go somewhere else to post that kind of nonsense.

If you looked at the comments 99% of those here posting their opinions will vote for the democratic nominee regardless of who it is.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:05 PM

80. Hey Joe, I love you, but this is just not good.

 

I really hope he evolves quickly on this because the above idea isn't helpful now. Things on the ground have changed drastically and he needs to change too.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:06 PM

82. There just shouldn't be any gray area or in-betweens on marijuana legalization

 

It should be legal, period, with the same rules in place as the states who have already legalized it for both medical and recreational use.

If Joe becomes our nominee, I really hope he considers replacing his personal views against pot with the views of the majority of people in this country who want to see it legalized across the board.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:09 PM

84. Moving it from C-I to C-II is almost a waste of time.

 

Schedule 2 are pretty hard to get, compared to the lower schedules. More paperwork. More oversight by DEA. New prescription every time, no refills. Know what else are Schedule 2? Cocaine, amphetamine.

Marinol (pure THC in a capsule) was moved from 2 to 3 in 1999 because it had been too difficult for patients to get it.

On the plus side, you might be able to get a legit prescription for MJ in a state that never enacted medical MJ, with lots of hassle. But in states that already have medical, this doesn't really help anything, since the procedures for obtaining it there are less stringent than for a schedule 2.

As for Joe's comments that no one should go to jail for weed, good for him. But it's pretty inconsistent with wanting to make weed a Schedule 2, since unauthorized possession of a Schedule 2 will send you to jail every time. And possessing it in compliance with a state medical or recreational law is not authorized possession under federal law. So congrats tokers, now in the eyes of federal law, you'll merely be on par with a recreational cocaine user, rather than a heroin user. I suppose it is an improvement, but not a very significant one.

For now I could give Joe the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't fully understand the implications of his proposal, and take him at his word that he doesn't want to jail people for weed. His proposal would have been a good one about 20 years ago.
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Response to MarvinGardens (Reply #84)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:14 PM

87. It's about research.

 

Biden has already said he’s fine with leaving legality up to the states.

Now that may not be satisfactory to many (it’s not to me), but it sure hell doesn’t warrant the “joe is coming for your legal weed” nonsense articles.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:12 PM

86. Sorry, but that attack is silly

 

Marijuana is currently a Schedule 1, meaning that it can't be prescribed at all and is per se illegal under federal law. Yet there is now a thriving marijuana industry in states where is has been legalized and medical marijuana in many more states than that. Making it "more legal" under Federal law would not change what is happening in the states so long as the same "hands off" approach is taken regarding what happens in the states. The key there is the federal attitude toward state cannabis initiatives, not what its DEA schedule is. However, as things stand now, changing from Schedule 1 to Schedule 2 is a worthwhile step toward legalization nation-wide and would help people raise a medical necessity defense in states where marijuana is still strictly illegal.
I'm for full legalization, but moving to Schedule 2 is a significant step federally (provided it is just that, a step).
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Response to RGTIndy (Reply #86)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:16 PM

88. Thank you for your knowledgeable explanatory post

 

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Response to RGTIndy (Reply #86)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:40 PM

97. Thank you for your post.

 

Alarmist fear mongering is not helpful. The last thing Democrats need is for the folks on Facebook, etc. to start telling their friends "this is disqualifying" based on misinformation.

I also find it troubling that Vice stoops to using a common right wing messaging tactic in a clickbait headline.

Democrat X Is Coming to Take Away Your Y.



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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:41 PM

99. Joe Biden supports decriminalizing marijuana, stops short of calling for legalization

 

The Vice article is wrong in many respects https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/politics/joe-biden-marijuana-decriminalization/index.html

Joe Biden supports decriminalizing marijuana, a Biden campaign spokesman told CNN, but the former vice president isn't going as far as calling for the drug to be legalized on the federal level.

"Nobody should be in jail for smoking marijuana," Biden told voters at a Tuesday house party in Nashua, New Hampshire.

Asked by CNN if the former vice president supports legalizing marijuana, Andrew Bates, a Biden campaign spokesman, said Biden believes the drug should be decriminalized and that decisions on legalization should continue on the state level.

"As he said [Tuesday], Vice President Biden does not believe anyone should be in jail simply for smoking or possessing marijuana. He supports decriminalizing marijuana and automatically expunging prior criminal records for marijuana possession, so those affected don't have to figure out how to petition for it or pay for a lawyer," Bates said in a statement to CNN.
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #99)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:20 PM

120. ...

 

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #99)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:17 PM

183. 70% of the country want mj to be legal...why won't he listen?

 

what is the huge push for this states rights attitude?

if he leaves it up to the states people will still go to jail over mj,

,people will still lose their children over it

harris ideas on this are no better

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 03:52 PM

105. Bet you most people didn't even bother to read the article

 

and still reacted to it!

It's a shit article. Stop acting like cultists some of you. #Gullible
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:02 PM

107. Oregon

 

Despite cannabis possession and use being legal in my state my employer has stated that testing positive for THC is a fireable offense. The reason given is the status of cannabis at the federal level. So it's not really legal for Oregonians whose employers have the same policy. Hillary last election campaigned on changing the status from Schedule 1 to Schedule 2 which did Oregonians no good. The same applies to the Biden policy. It's bad policy with real-life implications. It's one of many reasons I can't/won't support Biden during the primary process. He must bring his brain into the modern world. It must be made legal at the federal level. Essential is a candidate who supports this.
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Response to bluedovepdx (Reply #107)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:05 PM

111. That's Oregon's decision

 

Nevada just passed a law that prevents employers from testing for marijuana for in pre-employment screening. Oregon can do the same.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1440037001
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Response to DrToast (Reply #111)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:18 PM

118. screening

 

It's not just about preemployment screening. Employees can be required to be tested any time during their employment. This isn't about Oregon. This is about selecting a candidate who realizes the current federal policy and law sucks. The merits warrant legalization. Candidates stuck in the past will not get my vote.
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Response to bluedovepdx (Reply #118)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:23 PM

121. Marijuana testing is always going to be tricky

 

There isn’t a good way to determine if someone is high at the moment or if they’ve just used it in the past.

Just because something is legal, doesn’t mean employers can’t fire you if they think you’re intoxicated.
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Response to DrToast (Reply #121)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:43 PM

125. random

 

If an employee is intoxicated they should investigate the behavior. For us it's random. No cause is needed. Management keeps employees fearful. People can get super drunk the night before but make it to work on time and perform ok and that's acceptable. Consume THC from an edible, bud or tincture and that's unacceptable because the federal government says so. That has been the company reason and policy. The federal government can at least take away the reason. We need leaders who will do all they can to make it happen.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:41 PM

123. Don't have any legal or illegal weed. Never have, never will.

 

Maybe I need to change from Undecided to Biden.
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Response to elocs (Reply #123)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:51 PM

127. it's about everyone

 

Only if your sentiment falls with a candidate that does not believe in federal legalization.
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Response to elocs (Reply #123)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:07 PM

150. Over 500,000 marijuana arrests every year.

 

Disproportionately people of color. But hey no big deal for you, right?
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #150)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:31 AM

201. at a cost of about 30 grand a piece to punish

 

biden is totally out of touch on this
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:17 PM

138. India and Pakistan are coming close to nuclear conflict. Russia, NK, Iran, China--all these threats

 

impending and Joe Biden the only candidate with foreign policy gravitas, knowledge, and experience hands-on, but you are stirring it up over WEED.

Thanks for the alert. I think most people can get marijuana. ActUally, it is far less expensive outside dispensaries.

Biden’s decriminalization of it is a right step for now. This is a wedge issue we don’t need in this election.

Let the states decide. Biden is not stopping that.

As to edibles for pain—my God. Marijuana cookies and brownies don’t even need a recipe.


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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #138)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:09 PM

151. I'd forgotten VP Biden's involvement in India-Pakistan

 

over the years of Obama's administration. What I do remember is his good relationships in and understanding of this general region and reading not too long ago that he felt issues related to Pakistan were of even greater immediate concern than those in Iran.

Thanks for adding some huge perspective to the phony little dialogue we're being encouraged to squabble over. (And WHY is that!)
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Response to Hortensis (Reply #151)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 11:18 PM

196. My gosh! I admit I did not know about Biden's involvement under Obama, but just that experts

 

see Pakistan and India with the potential to be where nuclear conflict could break out, as there has been a past near disaster and recently an issue that brings them closer to the edge. Thank you for
educating me.

I have felt that Biden has a grasp of the geo-political situation that underlies many potential and present conflict areas across the globe, that of all candidates, Biden is best prepared to deal with the very tricky balancing act each situation presents.

And now,yes, I remember his discussing India and Pakistan, but just was generally impressed then.
Now I see in reading the news the meaning of some of what Biden had discussed or written about.

Enjoy the light your posts shed...
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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #196)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 03:49 AM

212. Same. Again, I appreciate your breaking one of the

 

phony little issue boxes allow ourselves to be herded into to squabble in.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:40 PM

141. Personally, I'm opposed to recreational weed being readily available.

 

I oppose full legalization here in New Jersey, and everywhere else.

This is not the same as stating I favor heavy criminal penalties, but I advocate for fines with the revenue being geared for drug information.

I do feel the same way about cigarettes, by the way, although it would never pass, but I love high cigarette taxes.

Marijuana is NOT good for you, period.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 05:51 PM

144. Good spin; what is the other side of the argument

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:14 PM

170. Keep evolving Joe. You'll get there eventually.

 



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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #170)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:58 PM

176. Not every Democratic voter is in favor of legalization.

 

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Response to Princetonian (Reply #176)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:22 PM

184. Of course, just most Democrats, most Independents, most adults in general.

 


[IMG][/IMG]

https://news.gallup.com/poll/196550/support-legal-marijuana.aspx
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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #184)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:00 PM

186. Did Gallup poll an even breakdown by racial demographic, religion, sex, marital status and age?

 

Charts are nice but tend to be very vanilla.
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Response to Princetonian (Reply #186)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:35 PM

188. The linked Gallup report includes age and is more recent.

 

Now even a majority of Republicans favor legalization.

All age groups favor legalization.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/243908/two-three-americans-support-legalizing-marijuana.aspx

But I can't find anything on other demographic categories.





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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #184)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:23 PM

191. Nevertheless, it is not a wise thing to confuse what is popular with what is good.

 

This is known as the bandwagon fallacy.

It is not true that because George W. Bush was enormously popular in 2002 that he was a good president.

Support for marijuana legalization does not make marijuana good for you. It isn't.
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Response to NNadir (Reply #191)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:30 PM

192. Is the standard for legal recreational drugs is alcohol, then weed is fine by comparison.

 


I understand they are some negatives associated with cannabis use, but we can handle it.
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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #192)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:39 PM

193. Um, an argument that alcohol is not good for you does not imply that weed is good for you.

 

Cigarettes killed my father, slowly, and in great pain. That also doesn't imply that pot is good for you, even though cigarettes are legal and pot isn't.

I'm not in favor of draconian drug laws, but this said, as I know people personally, who I love - my nephew for instance - who can't handle pot. He's depressed and although bright, doesn't want to do very much except, um, smoke weed. Thus your editorial "we" doesn't impress me, as I'm an old man who grew up in the 1960's and know more about pot than I wish to know.

I will simply say that I am against expanding free access to drug use.

My Governor, for whom I voted, is in favor of pot legalization, and I am opposed to his proposal to do so although both he and I are Democrats.
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Response to NNadir (Reply #191)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:40 PM

194. Show us a study that it isn't

 

That's your claim.
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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #194)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:53 PM

195. Pretty much every working day I am involved with the primary scientific literature.

 

My mailbox is stuffed every morning with biomedical literature, so much that I couldn't possibly read it all, but I scan as much as I can because, um, it's my job.

I also spend a significant amount of my time hanging out in libraries and taking initiative to find things out.

Google scholar is your friend:

This year, 2019, which is not over, there are 2800 hits for the search terms (marijuana use adolescent brain).

Here's the first ten of 2800 abstracts:

About 2,800 results (0.08 sec)
Any time
Since 2019
Since 2018
Since 2015
Custom range...
Sort by relevance
Sort by date
T204. Caudate Volume and Emotional Lability in Marijuana Using Adolescents
R Hodgson, P Subramaniam… - Biological …, 2019 - biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com
… related problems, but few studies have focused on associated brain regions. The current study
examines the association between adolescent marijuana use, emotional lability, and subcortical …
Twenty-seven adolescents (mean age17.4 years) with current marijuana use disorder …

8 Marijuana Use and Abuse in Adolescence
DM Litt, JR Kilmer, SF Tapert… - … Handbook of Adolescent …, 2019 - books.google.com
… Moreover, adolescent marijuana users show an altered cerebral blood flow compared to controls
(Jacobus et al., 2012), which appears to remit after 4 weeks of monitored abstinence … However,
alcohol and marijuana Marijuana Use and Abuse in Adolescence 173 …
Cited by 3 Related articles
[HTML] jamanetwork.com
Association of Prenatal Cannabis Exposure With Psychosis Proneness Among Children in the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) Study
JD Fine, AL Moreau, NR Karcher, A Agrawal… - JAMA …, 2019 - jamanetwork.com
… We used data from the ongoing Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) study (data …
abcdstudy.org/) to test whether maternal report of cannabis use during pregnancy is … the association
between offspring psychosis proneness and prenatal marijuana exposure before (0 …
Related articles All 5 versions
[HTML] nih.gov
[HTML] Marijuana use among adolescents is associated with deleterious alterations in mature BDNF
MJ Miguez, W Chan, L Espinoza, R Tarter… - AIMS Public …, 2019 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
… Finally, results indicated the importance of analyzing marijuana across the different phases of
adolescence, as it can be more informative when determining long-term impact … It is clear from
the data amassed herein that the adolescent body registers marijuana use as a …
Related articles All 6 versions
[PDF] biorxiv.org
Cannabis use in youth is associated with limited alterations in brain structure
JC Scott, AFG Rosen, TM Moore, DR Roalf… - …, 2019 - nature.com
… Substantial neurodevelopment occurs from adolescence to the mid-20s, including increased …
psychoactive response to cannabis, has been implicated in adolescent neurodevelopmental
changes … 6]. Thus, there are increasing concerns whether cannabis use during adolescence …
Cited by 3 Related articles All 7 versions
[HTML] tandfonline.com
The Effects of Marijuana Use on Transitions through Stages of Alcohol Involvement for Men and Women in the NESARC I and II
KM Green, B Reboussin, LR Pacek, CL Storr… - Substance use & …, 2019 - Taylor & Francis
… Adolescent brain development and the risk for alcohol and other drug problems.
Neuropsychology Review, 20(4), 398–413 … Current patterns of marijuana use initiation by
age among US adolescents and emerging adults: Implications for intervention …
All 3 versions
Associations between adolescent cannabis use frequency and adult brain structure: a prospective study of boys followed to adulthood
MH Meier, RA Schriber, J Beardslee, J Hanson… - Drug and alcohol …, 2019 - Elsevier
… reports of age-of-onset of cannabis use do not capture important individual differences in
frequency and duration of cannabis use in adolescence, which may be … To jointly account for
age-of-onset, frequency, and duration of adolescent cannabis use, we mapped …
All 4 versions
[PDF] jneurosci.org
Grey matter volume differences associated with extremely low levels of cannabis use in adolescence
C Orr, P Spechler, Z Cao, M Albaugh… - Journal of …, 2019 - Soc Neuroscience
Cited by 4 Related articles All 5 versions
[HTML] tandfonline.com
Personality traits and negative consequences associated with binge drinking and marijuana use in college students
DS O'Leary, DR Langbehn, JR Kramer… - The American journal …, 2019 - Taylor & Francis
… consequences associated with differing patterns of alco- hol and marijuana use (eg, poor
academic perfor- mance, low self-esteem … The 'dual systems' (16,22) and 'matura- tional imbalance'
(23) models of adolescent risk-taking describe adolescence/young adulthood as a …
Related articles All 5 versions
[PDF] sagepub.com
Orbitofrontal cortex volume prospectively predicts cannabis and other substance use onset in adolescents
NE Wade, KS Bagot, CI Cota, A Fotros… - Journal of …, 2019 - journals.sagepub.com
… View. Explore More. Orbitofrontal cortex volume prospectively predicts cannabis and other
substance use onset in adolescents. Show all authors Natasha E Wade 1 Natasha E Wade.
1Department of Psychiatry, University of California, San Diego, CA, USA View ORCID profile.
Related articles All 2 versions

It happens to me a lot when I make a claim based on general knowledge (knowledge that I worked hard to accumulate) that I am often challenged to "produce a study." Apparently many people think that it is my job to provide their educations, although in these times, with all the excellent libraries and tools available, it is relatively easy for people to educate themselves, often at no cost.

I am on many biomedical alert mailing lists, and, despite my best efforts to get off of them, many commercial cannabis mailing lists because pot is becoming, much to my regret, big business, and is peripherally involved with what I do for a living.

But even if I were unable to produce studies, not that if I do so anyone will actually read them if it doesn't agree with their bias, I am an old man who has lived a long time, known many people, many of whom were regular pot users and my own experience teaches me that pot is not good for you, period.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NNadir (Reply #195)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:22 AM

226. Most advocates are talking about adult use of cannabis.

 


Prohibition has not been a great obstacle for many youth.

But legalizing it, taxing it, and putting funds in health care and education could help those youth attracted to excessive cannabis use.
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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #226)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:18 PM

231. I am familiar with the argument, also advanced...

 

...for cigarette taxes and alcohol taxes.

The reality however is that no one really follows up to see if these taxes end up in the general fund.

I personally do not believe that the physiological damage associated with pot use ends when one turns 21.

I also note that the use of the legal, and undoubtedly worse drugs alcohol and tobacco is higher among adolescents than pot use is. This I take as evidence that it is not a good idea to expand access to any drug.

In any case an argument that Joe Biden is a bad guy because he's restrained in his enthusiasm for legal pot does not translate into a productive argument. There are children living in cages for crying out loud!

Our sybartic interest in the importance of getting high in light of this state of affairs is a little questionable at this point.
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Response to NNadir (Reply #231)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:21 PM

232. I hate that we put migrants into cages too.

 


But I hate even more that we put many more US minors and adults in cages we call jail and prison for weed.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #232)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:31 PM

233. Opposition to expanding increased pot access...

 

...does not translate in to enthusiasm for draconian drug laws, many of which are popular with grateful racists.

Stating this is not equivalent to saying that I find it desirable that one can drive down to a pot store as one can drive to a liquor store.

I am certainly not in favor of making pot a critical factor in government revenue. I'd rather just pay higher taxes to fund good government.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:17 PM

190. Then you better hide it from him.

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:21 AM

200. Preposterous. The weed genie is already out of

 

The bottle. It ain’t going back in.
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Response to BootinUp (Reply #200)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:43 AM

203. eggs-ackly

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 12:42 AM

202. "there could be no recreational marijuana at all." LOLOLOLOL

 








p.s.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #202)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 07:32 AM

216. 500,000 arrests annually, primarily poc

 

Rofl all you want. Biden is a drug warrior being dragged reluctantly toward some half assed middle ground on legalization.

He’s stuck in the 90s.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 01:58 AM

209. I keep wondering....

 

..... Is the bottom anywhere close?
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 03:50 AM

213. Well he can have some, but he's gotta bring some snacks and beer.

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 06:40 AM

215. I will not vote for Joe in the primaries because of several issues

 

This is just one of them. I think with the majority of Americans it should be federally made legal, at the least for medical use, but would prefer it totally legalized. Others do support it more than he does, and will get their votes over him, in the primaries and even some by not voting in the general election. His position on this is still in the past, and he knows there's more than enough studies showing its medically more beneficial than many other harmful drugs being peddled every day by big pharma, and 24 / 7 over the tv. He's losing voters doing this by taking this past position. I do have other reasons but on this one the majority is not with him on this. What's more dangerous is it not being regulated and controlled, and putting the safety into it , instead of keeping a thriving black market going where anything goes in some area's. I think he's trying to play it safe on this, and it won't work. Red donnie will say anything then turn around and use it to round up minorities with it by way of weaponizing it.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 06:18 PM

235. Not surprising that the field's centrist candidate is out-of-step with a progressive issue

 

like cannabis legalization.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Thu Aug 8, 2019, 08:29 PM

242. I think this has bern debunked.

 

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