Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumSanders Says If Israel Wants to Ban Members of Congress, It Should Not Receive Billions in
in US Military Aid
"The idea that a member of the United States Congress cannot visit a nation which, by the way, we support to the tune of billions and billions of dollars is clearly an outrage."
byJake Johnson, staff writer
"And if Israel doesn't want members of the United States Congress to visit their country to get a firsthand look at what's going onand I've been there many, many timesbut if he doesn't want members to visit, maybe [Netanyahu] can respectfully decline the billions of dollars that we give to Israel," Sanders added.
Progressives applauded Sanders' remarks, noting that the senator's willingness to challenge U.S. military aid to Israel makes him unique in the 2020 Democratic presidential field.
"People have been asking how Bernie can distinguish himself from rivals who at least profess agreement on domestic issues," tweeted HuffPost reporter Daniel Marans. "This is one area where the distinction is clear."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/08/16/sanders-says-if-israel-wants-ban-members-congress-it-should-not-receive-billions-us?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3wpgkqdtXhni7pHuhQ5ycGSnZGDCEBF--E_OIRJaQQ_ickoLmmN30jjgc
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I have serious issues with Israel and my tax dollars and have had so since the incident involving The USS Liberty.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Perseus
(4,341 posts)The amounts are exorbitant, I don't understand it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Netanyahu's actions on the embassy location and targeting of US officeholders. There must be a price extracted for his arrogance. Israeli voters can re-elect him if they won't, but that will just make the price that will be extracted higher.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Netanyahu or not I want this amount of my tax dollars at the very least reviewed and I would much prefer that it be spent on things domestic such as education, roads, bridges, healthcare and alike. If it is spent overseas I would hope it is going to something that helps with people in serious need.
Alternately if the damn wall is something so blasted important (and I think it is a completely stupid idea), here is a source of funding for it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
olegramps
(8,200 posts)I have been concerned that our treatment of the situation has not been evenly handled. Let's admit that following the holocaust, the overwhelming sentiment was in favor of the Jews. I think that it is well to also remember that the Jewish takeover of Palestine was marked with violence by Jewish settlers who were demanding independence from British oversight. It certainly isn't one sided. Let us also consider that they have conducted serious spy operations on us, their supposed trusted ally. We should also consider the extent of their powerful lobbying operations to affect a rather one-sided projection of the situation with the Palestinian.
Let's also not forget that the Republican Party's support for Israel, which has intensified under the Trump administration, is tied directly to the their dependence on the support of the Evangelical End-timers who see the conflict as being directly related to their ardent desire for the Second Coming, what I consider to be abject idiotic nonsense. I don't want to offend any Christians, but the predictions of the return of Jesus have been preached since the advent of Christianity and repeated numerous times for the last 2,000 plus years.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,354 posts)Thanks for the thread Autumn.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)It is akin to someone on welfare cannot have children as long as they are on welfare.
Any member of congress is free to vote against aid to Israel but they have no right to an automatic welcome in Israel.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)right to an automatic check of billions of dollars in aid from our tax dollars when we have cities here that need aid.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)If the congresscritters want to whine, they should whine at their colleagues and not at Israel.
The aid to Israel is DEMOCRATICALLY and LEGALLY approved. Just because someone doesn't get a visa doesn't mean it can be yanked willy-nilly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)cared to not roll over they could legally defund that aid. Also, every elected "congresscritter", as you call them should be raising hell with republicans AND Israel. So should the American people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RDANGELO
(3,433 posts)This is just criticism. People can't criticize Israel?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No one.
Don't pretend that simply criticizing the action is the same as arguing Israel lacks status as a sovereign state.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)but threats of yanking aid are not ok. They sound like economic slavery -- "If you want my money, you'll have to obey" kind of a thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,333 posts)sanctions, and its inverse, economic aid, as diplomatic tools just because it is apparently one of your sacred cows in the cross-hairs and/or just trying to get slap in on a candidate you do not like nor support.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,354 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)We can yank it at any time. Yes, they have to "obey" at least some conditions. We are the giver, and there can be things we don't tolerate. They congresswoman visa denial was petty; they should have let it go. The visit would not have made much difference.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Buzz cook
(2,471 posts)Israel obeying Trump.
Our tax dollars have done more than support Israel's military. They have supported the more and more right wing and corrupt Netanyahu government.
Israel can refuse entry to anyone they wish to. But when they do so to suck up to Donald Trump they should expect a reaction.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
FreeLookMode
(30 posts)As much as anything else.
And yeah, if you want American Money, it comes with conditions. Accept those conditions or don't get our money - that's pretty normal.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)have approved the aid to Israel democratically and legally.
If any congress person needs to whine, they should whine at their colleagues who have approved the aid and signed by the POTUS.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Clash City Rocker
(3,396 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)At least we are bringing it up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LuvNewcastle
(16,844 posts)of an Israeli Knesset member to enter the country, I suspect people would be raising hell.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lonestarblue
(9,979 posts)He violated long-standing tradition, but Republicans invited him so that was okay.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)to deny Netanyahu entry.
Our own congresswomen, who are Americans, being denied because of their ethnicity or their opinion, was stupid as it brought attention to a visit that would probably have not been so newsworthy had they just let it go.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Dough
(17,302 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
VarryOn
(2,343 posts)I dont remember this happening but heard about it on NPR earlier today...
WASHINGTON (JTA) The United States barred entry to Israeli Knesset member Michael Ben Ari, reportedly because of his membership in Kach, a banned terrorist group.
Ben Ari, a member of the right-wing National Union party, wanted to attend two conferences in the United States.
Israeli media quoted Ben Ari as saying last week that the ban stemmed from his association with Kach, the anti-Arab group founded in the 1970s by the late Meir Kahane.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)big difference.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
VarryOn
(2,343 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HeartlandProgressive
(294 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Andy823
(11,495 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)AND many Republicans in opposing this despicable and scary action.
Although I'm ready to pull all funds from Israel's ultraconservative government, there are no doubt many reasons why that simply isn't possible, a trumpian move far more dangerous than just moving the capitol to Jerusalem in its effect.
Note that no one who has or may have such power, such as Biden or Pelosi, is able to indulge this kind of bombastic hot-air noise. I believe Sanders is right in not worrying that he'd have to come through, but I don't admire him for using his freedom this way.
https://www.vox.com/2019/8/15/20807261/israel-omar-tlaib-trump-netanyahu-pelosi-warren
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)standing separate, I agree and I say good for him.
Bernie's statement,
"And if Israel doesn't want members of the United States Congress to visit their country to get a firsthand look at what's going onand I've been there many, many timesbut if he doesn't want members to visit, maybe [Netanyahu] can respectfully decline the billions of dollars that we give to Israel,"
Biden's statement,
Nancy's statement,
Last month, Israeli Ambassador Dermer stated that, Out of respect for the U.S. Congress and the great alliance between Israel and America, we would not deny entry to any Member of Congress into Israel. This is a sad reversal and is deeply disappointing. I pray that the Government of Israel will reverse that denial.
Israels denial of entry to Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar is a sign of weakness, and beneath the dignity of the great State of Israel. The Presidents statements about the Congresswomen are a sign of ignorance and disrespect, and beneath the dignity of the Office of the President.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I mean, if empty words I know I'll never have to make good on are what it takes, see above.
Seriously, Biden was heavily involved in the Middle East during Obama's administration. Don't you at least wonder what's going through his mind, and Harris's for instance, as they realize all this may well land in their lap for real?
You do know that America's strongest Zionists by far are America's Christians, right? -- the religious right especially -- and the Republican Party? It's always been that way. The Bible says Jesus will return to earth after the Jews return to Israel.
Ever wonder what would happen if a Jewish president tried to cancel a huge block of aid to Israel, risking the security of the Zionist nation? Congress wouldn't let him, just to begin, and Sanders knows that. Sabotage a major, major bipartisan Christian belief to which the Republican Party and many in the Democratic are wholly committed?! Uhuh. The Knessset could literally step out into the streets of Jerusalem and shoot down Christian tourists, and it wouldn't change a thing as far as the Republican Party was concerned.
All hot air, and thank goodness. We have enough of a religious war going as it is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)Personally, my feeling is as an American I bow down to no religious or zealot group or nation that bases their "facts" ancient books that have no relevance or solutions for the issues we face today. Nor do I accept that I have to accept their wishes. We are a sovereign nation. If Russia, Iran or any other nation refused entry and disrespected our elected representatives we would not stand for it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I wasnt trying to invite antagonism to Israel, but speaking about our nation.
The Republican Party is currently running this show. As for bowing down, I dont like to think of that as bowing down to either McConnell or Trump, but courtesy of lunacy they are mostly in charge. Maybe envisage a boot on your neck instead.
And remember that it didnt and doesnt have to be this way. People who are determined not to stand for it vote Democrat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)Isreal because of their bible, which is an ancient book? If you don't like my opinion on that ignore it.
Ever wonder what would happen if a Jewish president tried to cancel a huge block of aid to Israel, risking the security of the Zionist nation? Congress wouldn't let him, just to begin, and Sanders knows that. Sabotage a major, major bipartisan Christian belief to which the Republican Party and many in the Democratic are wholly committed?! Uhuh. The Knessset could literally step out into the streets of Jerusalem and shoot down Christian tourists, and it wouldn't change a thing as far as the Republican Party was concerned.
All hot air, and thank goodness. We have enough of a religious war going as it is.
I stand by what I said.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Marcuse
(7,479 posts)...Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Pauls Second Letter to the Thessalonians, Chapter 1, Verses 7-9
With friends like these....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Nothing new about this, its as old as Christianity.
Of course, various Christian sects vary tremendously in their good heartedness or lack of it. Although most Jews will presumably die at Armageddon, the nicer ones expect plenty of them to be choose to be saved as well. Other sects expect them all to die. I am particularly fond of the fundamentalist extremists ( mercifully, very few) who believe all Jews around the planet must be driven to Israel, by whatever means necessary, but this horror and its implementation would be their gods doing, not theirs. As you say, with friends like this...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)the suffering of those left behind after their rapture.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)He could not even create a Government and thinks Trump will help him. Problem is Trump has his own problems now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Ironic that the largest, strongest pro-zionism forces in the U.S. are heavily laced with antisemitism, but so it is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)A former Ambassador, I think say that Netanyahu is counting on Trump support, hoping Trump will invite him here, the way John Boehner did. Remember, he invited Bibi to speak before Congress.?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)When one party in a republic invites the leader of another country over especially to criticize a US president, that's out of line. Every single Republican that signed that petition needs to be soundly defeated at the polls next time they are up for reelection. Which is 2020 for the entire House.
That was not OK, particularly since they were protesting the Iran agreement, which was good, but which they hated because Obama had the temerity to negotiate it while being black.
Racist jerks. Because that's what it was all about - race. Pure and simple. Obama was a centrist and that was a good deal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Has done is revenge on Obama. He is such a gutless wonder.
Before Boehner retired someone dumped a load of horse manure at his headquarters.
Lebanon is known for its horse race track.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,333 posts)Congress from his nation, it is going to be a shitshow. I therefore fully expect Rump to do just that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,333 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)with the critics being anti-Semitic? The face is that Israel has rather consistently drifted to the right and it's treatment of Oalestinians gotten worse since Sharon went into the area that holds the Al Asga Mosque. Israel has not helped us during that time, it is more likely to spy on us than share critical intelligence, highly likely to cut deals with China and Russia that are not in our best interests. The relationship with Israel must be reviewed if the government there keeps drifting rightward and taking actions that upset our efforts to bring a lasting peace to that region.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)been antisemitic. Its a theme thats run through conservative Christianity for as long as its existed.
You dont imagine that Hitler killed 4 million Jews all by himself do you? Germany was a Christian nation. Or that Jews were discriminated against in this nation for 500 years because they secretly ran the whole planet in a giant Jewish conspiracy?
What todays Republican Party has become is not just racist toward dark skinned people but also old-style intensely anti-Semitic, AND more committed to Zionism than ever. Many conservative Christians believe we are in the end times.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But I get your point. Jewish people have had pogroms run against them for millennia. They were voctomized in Czarist Russia and the victimization continued under the Soviets, eventhough one of the leaders of the Russian revolution was a Jewish person, Leon Trotsky.
Today there is an unholy alliance between ultra-right Jewish people like Sheldon Edelson, Netanyahu, et others, and conservative Christians and white supremacists. Each have their own reason for being in that alliance, but each is willing to turn a blind eye to the other for the time being. That last observation is why white nationalist can match chanting "Jews will not replace us", with all the background meaning of that phrase, and not have Netanyahu and Trump supporting Jewish people go apeshit, instead there is a wink and a grin because each got something that it wanted, for people like Adelson it is being able to conduct any business action without fear of regulators, for people like Netanyahu, it is being able to conduct any internal and foreign policy they want and not have the USA intervene to push for other choices.
My point was the Israeli people have a choice with Netanyahu, they can continue to keep him in office or they can get rid of him, both choices come with consequences, my argument is that we should make the consequences harsh if Israelis choose to keep Netanyahu. There is no fence-sitting with such a situation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)The others sound almost like they're apologizing for making a statement.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,058 posts)of Israel will reverse that denial. " it shows me that they are subservient. I find that disturbing, an American politician should never bow down to a foreign country as Trump does to Russia.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
packman
(16,296 posts)Can't we find some highways, bridges or such to spend that money on?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MarvinGardens
(779 posts)This was a provocative act by the Israeli government toward the United States government. We should not be funding a government that is hostile toward members of our legislative branch. There are pragmatic reasons not to cut off all funding. It may be against our interests to do so. But there should be a penalty for this behavior. Perhaps US contributions to Israel should be reduced by some percentage.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)Maybe some tariffs on the side.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NNadir
(33,514 posts)...case he's right. Let's give praise when due.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dchill
(38,474 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)And Democrats now control the budget.
Netanyahu jumped when Trump tweeted, others thought different.
Although I do think the 2 women walked right into Trumps trap. Notice, AOC seems to be MIA on this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,058 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)I totally agree..
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)You bet. Netanyahu doesn't get to bar members of our Congress from his country. It's supposed to be a democracy, for God's sake.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Raven123
(4,829 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riversedge
(70,197 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jrthin
(4,835 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Dough
(17,302 posts)He deserves applause for taking this position.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Timmygoat
(779 posts)That we can sign to stop aid to Israel?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
demmiblue
(36,841 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
calimary
(81,220 posts)My husband and I have been talking about that all morning.
He says we should start reconsidering tall that financial support immediately. Further, we should dock their pay in proportion with the percentage of Congressmembers to whom theyre refusing entry. Wont be a huge amount of money (the ratio here is 2:435) but I suspect Bibi cant afford to lose a single nickel. PARTICULARLY when Bibis got an election of his own to face in the very near future.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RVN VET71
(2,690 posts)Bibi should be petitioning for the right to elect Representatives and Senators.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RVN VET71
(2,690 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)Naturally, I concur with Sanders' position but the larger and more important issue, as I see it, is that Bibi has thrived by leveraging the canard that opposition to the government of Israel equals antisemitism.
Balderdash!
This is far too close to the line Dubya used in 2002 in order to cobble together the coalition of the willing: "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists". I'm sick of it!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Duppers
(28,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Liberal Lion
(1,414 posts)and not only because of the denial of entry.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Duppers
(28,120 posts)And IDGAF what folks say, he is!
Preach it Bernie!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democrank
(11,093 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Nanjeanne
(4,951 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BigDemVoter
(4,150 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yeehah
(4,587 posts)There is no reason to support right-wing insanity in Istael or anywhere else.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)Thank you Senator Sanders.
Win in 2020!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Fuck Israel.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MustLoveBeagles
(11,594 posts)I don't agree with Bernie much anymore but he's right about this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
one more dollar
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FreeLookMode
(30 posts)It is also not accidental. It's a tactic. The Israeli government and its lobbyists in Washington are both more than happy to conflate the two, so that any criticism of occupation, oppressive policies, human rights abuses and the like can be dismissed by calling the person an anti-semite.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bettie
(16,095 posts)he's right on this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided