Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumSTOP the petty attacks on Democratic candidates.
Stop nitpicking about minor issues whole our country and the world are in this much peril.
The mischaracterizations of Joe Biden's minor gaffes remind me of the lies and innuendo spread about Hillary Clinton's health in 2016. Stop it.
The outcome of this will be Trump's re-election. Just stop.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)I will comment on anything I think is related to a candidates' electability.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MBS
(9,688 posts)It is our responsibility to vet our candidates (note: vetting is different from trashing candidates, or promulgating lies about them), and to consider their vulnerabilities honestly and seriously, knowing that any problems we feel obliged to dismiss as minor, or to repeatedly apologize for, are sure to be magnified and distorted 100X by the Republicans in the GE.
Needless to say, all candidates have their flaws and vulnerabilities, and there will be (and already have been) misstatements by several of them. To me, repeated or chronic instances become especially worrisome. What matters most of all, IMO, is how each candidate ADDRESSES those misstatements, flaws and vulnerabilities.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)It's not who I like or you like. Beating trump is all that matters. Biden can beat trump. trump does not want to run against Biden. That says it all. Biden running with a strong, progressive, Dem woman would beat trump. I don't get folks attacking our candidates. That is how trump will win. Wake up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yardwork
(61,408 posts)There's vetting, and then there's making shit up. I'm talking about the latter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)gaffes are. They area result of diminishing brain function. That is the human condition.
If we really want to know what condition our candidates are in we should not mislead ourselves.
People are rightfully wondering about the gaffes as they should.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)As a health care professional that once worked with those that stuttered, his gaffes are more likely related to stuttering... its how their brains work
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)I think you are wrong no matter what you are.
Also the gaffes are happening regularly.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(44,743 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)You are entitled to your opinion
Other famous individuals that stutter or stuttered.
The beloved king George VI... lead the Brits thru WWII and beloved by his people
Julia Roberts, Emily Blunt, James earl jones
You can take a look at the link... or notup to you
https://www.stutteringhelp.org/famouspeople
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
berksdem
(593 posts)I think the biggest gaffe thus far was KH's performance in the second debate!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WinstonSmith4740
(3,048 posts)Totally agree with you. I just retired from teaching, and had some (limited) experience with kids who stuttered, or were dealing with some other speech issue. Each was different, each had different "triggers". But the way they handled it was pretty much the same. They stopped, took a breath, organized their thoughts, and started again...slowly. And that simply can not be done on the campaign trail. If he did, the media would jump all over him about not being able to think on his feet.
But the OP is right on target...we have to get out of the circular firing squad mentality. I support Joe. I think he has the experience, and more importantly, the international gravitas to let our allies know we're serious about cleaning up after Trump's cluster fuck approach to everything. I don't give a rat's ass what he may have said or done 40 years ago. I made a lot of stupid decisions in my 20's, and sometimes I wonder how I lived through them. I also said a lot of stupid things...used to be virulently anti-union, for instance. We learn, grow, and change our outlook on things. But I DO care about the lies and flat out bullshit coming out of Trump's mouth on a daily basis.
So I will "vote blue, no matter who". We have an embarrassment of riches on our side of the aisle. I like some more than others, but any one of them is better than Trump. This is not the election to wring your hands over your vaunted "principles"...yeah, I'm talking to you, Jill Stein voters. Hold your nose if you have to, but vote Blue in 2020. Our democracy, and quite possibly the survival of the damn earth depends on it.
And wasn't Churchill also a stutterer?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)The Brits adored him. He was their stalwart leader during those dark days. Everyone was aware of his stuttering and it didnt matter to them. He went down in history as one of the UKs most loved and successful kings
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I've lived my entire life in Delaware, have known Joe Biden for decades, and spent three hours a week with him and a handful of other people every week for a semester.
There has NEVER been any mention of this supposed "stuttering" issue, which is as convenient as his phantom "asthma" he developed sometime after being a high school athlete, but during the Vietnam draft.
I had speech therapy as a child for some issues, and I know what decade RFK and MLK were assassinated.
Biden has ALWAYS come out with occasional ridiculous stuff. Is it a big deal? No. But attributing it to childhood stuttering is simply embarrassing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,937 posts)What I do find amusing though is that I didnt realize how many neurologists we have here at DU
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)To the American Institute for Stuttering.
Your lack of knowledge about stuttering shows... its not dx by neurologists
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,937 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)He frequently gives talks about stuttering, but if you know him then Im not telling you anything you dont already know
Everyones disabilities are different. Good for you... you had speech therapy as a child. But Saying you know what its like for mr. Biden is the same as saying that all medical dx are the same regardless of whether its heart attack or a stroke. That would sure make it convenient the for the medical professionals doing the dx.
Your post shows little empathy. I sure wouldnt want you as a care giver!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)While he has defenitely shown his age, he's always been error prone when it comes to speaking in public. Someone here at some point mentioned that he has a bad speech impediment, so has to focus on enunciation more than most. That can take away from his focus on what he's saying, so sometimes errors will be made, or thoughts may run together.
His consistent speaking gaffes aren't a great thing to have as POTUS, but it's not a real reason to think he would be a bad President.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'm guessing you're going to rationalize otherwise and pretend what you did is completely different from what you did.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
karynnj
(59,474 posts)I think the gaffes and misstatements that have been at issue are mostly similar to things he has always done. I suspect that they are a function of something often noted as a Biden asset - that he is very spontaneous. Part of that is his extrovert personality versus the more balanced personalities of people like Gore, Kerry and Hillary Clinton. (Only on a special politician only spectrum are they any where near introverts).
The extreme extrovert nature of his personality coupled with not having as much of a filter when running for President does lead to him both seeming more real and saying more things that he likely would not say if he mentally vetted every word out of his mouth. This has lead to more misstatements. repeating practiced answers (think Edwards) or mentally parsing every word (Kerry, Clinton, and Gore) does take away from spontaneity. Some, like misnaming world leaders - ie Thatcher for May (more than once) unfortunately are correlated to some people not having the instant recall that they had when younger. (Biden was a foreign policy person).
Another factor is that various Democratic opponents - or potential opponents - have fed the meme that he is gaffe prone. Then, in a Presidential race where - at its height - the politician is speaking as much as 16 hours a day - all recorded by someone, there will be plenty of statements that feed the meme, if it exists, that the politician is "gaffe prone". A related attack - is similar to an attack used on HRC is that he makes stuff up. I only recently saw the right building that re Senate trips to the Green zone in Iraq and his trip with Hagel and Kerry to AFghanistan. (With HRC it was the "under fire" stuff)
One problem wit Biden is that, per reports, the solution his team has is to limit his schedule. My concern here is that this shows little faith in the candidate and, if real, that this is getting out shows a team not 100% convinced in their candidate. It, oddly, gives credence to fears that he can not function well under the exhausting schedule of running for office.
I would be less concerned if Biden were to engage in far reaching interviews where he could demonstrate that he can easily explain complicated issues when asked. This would demonstrate that his mastery of issues, facts and potential solutions. If I saw things like that, I would not worry about any scramble to remember names. (Note that this is different than a prepared speech to counter issues not well handled extemporaneously in debates or in conversations.)
I remember why I did not want him in 2008, at a point where I wondered if Obama needed more experience and had rejected Edwards and Richardson and was very reluctant to back HRC. I looked seriously at both Biden and Dodd -- before going to Obama.
Starting in 2005, I obsessively watched the SFRC. When Lugar was chair, he ran a very civil hearing, often giving senators of both party more than their allotted time noting the questioning was productive and should continue. Biden cut everyone off as soon as their time expired and then took time to restate what he thought the conversion had been before calling the next Senator. Petty on my part ... perhaps, but it seemed to make the herings less productive than the ones Lugar or Kerry. Kerry went further than Lugar - even having some hearings that used a Ted Kennedy technique of letting the witnesses interact with each other and the Senators. In spite of his excellent debates then, this and his 26 minute monologue when he was at the Alito hearing and his strange statement that he would vote - just once - to filibuster Alito (making him useless if he was the 41st Senator) gave me cause to rule him out.
Now since then, Biden led various Obama efforts and to my knowledge managed them very well. That would be a better predictor of his ability to manage an administration.
I agree that there are many people who are very comfortable with him as a known quantity. However, I remember in 2005 how many pundits and people here argued that as HRC was a known figure, the Republican could not negatively define her based on lies -- as they to some degree did with the less well known Kerry. That likely was partly true even though Clinton had more baggage than Kerry did. A different response is that we simply need to work harder to define whomever our nominee is. This was done in 2008 with Obama.
At this point, the primaries will be what determines who the majority of the Democratic party trusts to be President -- with the first important piece being to win the general election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dgauss
(880 posts)Specifically, and don't laugh, he should do an interview on the Joe Rogan podcast. His strengths, which I see as experience, depth of knowledge and basic decency, would be apparent. It would be a real conversation, not an exercise in avoiding "gaffes" and people would actually appreciate that.
The Sanders interview on that podcast got over 9 million views, 170,000 comments and there was an overwhelming appreciation of being able to listen to a candidate have an intelligent conversation outside the soundbite, gotcha media culture.
Republicans can thrive if the means of communication is soundbites. Democrats win if there is a thoughtful discussion. The idea that people don't have the attention span for such conversations and there is no way have them anyway, given today's media, is overstated. Sanders found a way to do it - large audience, interested viewers, positive response. Biden would be impressive in that medium as well and there would be a lot of people that would come away with an impression of him quite different than what they get from CNN, MSNBC and obviously FOX.
So free advice to the Biden campaign: do a Joe Rogan podcast.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)I dont think they are gaffes, per se.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
he has LONG been known for his gaffes
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)We need to elect our nominee whom ever it is
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
theaocp
(4,223 posts)your feelings about ONE CANDIDATE aside. Id hate to put words in your mouth.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jalan48
(13,797 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)Sanders on his socialism
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,797 posts)ongoing speaking mistakes that have to be immediately corrected.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)Any and all regardless. I agree with that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)We have more than 4 years of trump's crap. Stop picking on Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,797 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jalan48
(13,797 posts)old and not up to snuff mentally to be President. What do you think the media will do every time Biden makes a speaking mistake he has to correct? It will become THE issue of the campaign. Pretending it's not a problem is wishful thinking.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jalan48
(13,797 posts)with Biden we can see what's coming from the Republicans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
yardwork
(61,408 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)as quickly as Dems do when Trump displays his impulsive and ignorant behaviors. Biden vs Trump would easily turn into a question of what rate voters expect age to catch up with the candidates during their term.
And why not? Many people are anxious to blame dementia for Trump's rants and misspeaks. I blame ignorance and lack of discipline because we know that to be true. But, it does provide a basis for speculation. Thankfully it's the republican's problem in 2020, assuming they stay with him.
I don't see how nominating someone who invites competition in that realm is a sure winner.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jalan48
(13,797 posts)competence.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)in terms of energy, verbal presentation and spontaneous interactions, anyway.
I remember when Kerry and Bush went down that road comparing athleticism and physical fitness. I remember Kerry parasailing or something.
A bigger potential problem, in my view, is whether or not they will to admit limitations. If they will wear hearing aids, use mobility devices, use whatever assistive tech is available to adapt to the memory issues, etc. The denial can be a bigger problem than admitting to physical and cognitive difficulties that come with age.
Since there was no 25th Amendment, Wilson and FDR pulled off a national deception we probably won't see again. If we do nominate someone who is at an age where compensations are necessary, I hope they willing to admit it and take advantage of available tech and assistance without shame or fear of what the opposition or media might say.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Ponietz
(2,903 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Dough
(17,090 posts)the rest of that street address?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)A KGOPer does not make gaffes.
They just lie or if busted, a misspeak.
I trust Joe Biden to have the best, most accomplished people in his cabinet and as advisors.
Unlike tTrump, a good president does not work alone although the final decision often is.
I will see you 10 gaffes to one LIE from the orange ass!
Let Biden Be Biden!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)Biden will be an excellent President with a cabinet and advisers who will be make us all proud. Wake up folks.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zentrum
(9,865 posts)But they'll never pass on an opportunity to write "BS" for Bernie. Not realizing how incredibly alienating it is to those of us who believe in genuine primary critique and who will vote for whomever is the nominee.
In other words, as you say, "just stop". Political critique is not the same as insulting.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)However, I only support true Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ancianita
(35,812 posts)trifling, no grandstanding, no bandwagons, no games, blames, gaslighting, no niggling, no quibbling, no buts or what ifs or what abouts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
H2O Man
(73,308 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to yardwork (Original post)
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yardwork
(61,408 posts)I'm talking about the latter.
If somebody posts an OP here stating that Bernie Sanders "fainted" when that's not true, we all should repudiate the false statement.
Biden is famous for occasionally misspeaking. He always corrects himself. He's not a perfect public speaker. Compared to Trump, this is a problem? Give me a break.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to yardwork (Reply #46)
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True Dough
(17,090 posts)his mental acuity and fitness are legitimately in question?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,271 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)who does indeed lack mental acuity.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Dough
(17,090 posts)Sometimes he needs his aides to set him straight.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)One of the many reasons I like Mayor Pete, hes not a fan of it either.
Of course your mileage may vary.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Dough
(17,090 posts)but you can be sure that some are thinking and quietly saying the same things you're reading about here on this discussion forum.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)<sarcasm>
Note to jurors: this is sarcasm, as I know Mayor Pete has too much integrity and character to engage in anything like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Dough
(17,090 posts)but that doesn't make Joe the sharpest candidate among the Dem field.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
yardwork
(61,408 posts)She fainted! She's sick! She's near death! This crap continued right up until Election Day.
Same playbook. Not going to put up with it without fighting back this time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nini
(16,670 posts)This is normal behavior and believe it or not GDP opinions don't affect all voters country wide.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yardwork
(61,408 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided