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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:18 PM Aug 2019

A friend made an interesting point about Biden that I don't have a response for

She said that every Democrat who's won the presidency on the last 45 years - Carter, Clinton, Obama - were new faces who didn't run on their established Washington credentials but positioned themselves as the future of the party and country. And, with the exception of Dukakis, every candidate who lost - Mondale, Gore, Kerry, Clinton - ran as the "old, experienced hand." Given this, she argues that the party needs to nominate one of the more "cutting edge" candidates and not turn to Biden.

This troubled me because, while I haven't settled on a candidate yet, I think Biden could be our best bet because of his experience and arguable "electability." I'm not sold on that, but I do see that as a strong argument in his favor.

I didn't have an answer to push back against her argument. Usually, I'm pretty good at that but I keep thinking her argument has a hole in it that I'm missing.

Is there an argument to be made for going for the established, "old school" candidate this time, notwithstanding the history? Is it that we're facing a situation unlike anything ever seen before, so we can't treat past as prologue? Or something else?

I'm looking for serious answers here. Thanks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A friend made an interesting point about Biden that I don't have a response for (Original Post) StarfishSaver Aug 2019 OP
"Electability" is a shibboleth Boomer Aug 2019 #1
I agree with you about the "electability" thing. StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #2
At this stage I think they conflate name recognition with electability. Notice that the more people tblue37 Aug 2019 #10
Is that what the fascist pig squatting in the WH sold enough people on in 2016? Thomas Hurt Aug 2019 #3
Actually, it is StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #5
Yep. FoxNewsSucks Aug 2019 #14
Yes, but Sucha NastyWoman Aug 2019 #27
This is not a normal election, so I don't know if it's possible The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2019 #4
Interesting StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #7
That would be my reply- The rules don't apply to this election, due to the trump republican atrocity NBachers Aug 2019 #33
Agree n/t scardycat Aug 2019 #34
Post removed Post removed Aug 2019 #45
They sure haven't so far. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2019 #46
I think her argument is based upon the conventional drray23 Aug 2019 #6
Well thought out response, drray2. Control-Z Aug 2019 #35
"since Trump is older" No, he is not. Biden is 76, Trump is 73. But both are in their 70s though. elocs Aug 2019 #42
I get it. But, we've never had to run after a trump. Hoyt Aug 2019 #8
My answer is we've never raced an electorate so damaged and devastated by the incumbent, DJT hlthe2b Aug 2019 #9
the shit economy were huge factors during Bill Clinton and Obama's elections JI7 Aug 2019 #11
Right, there are always other factors. Correlation does not equal causation. thesquanderer Aug 2019 #36
It's a fair point, but I don't think it's decisive. DanTex Aug 2019 #12
While this is more than 45 years ago, JFK and LBJ did well Gothmog Aug 2019 #13
Did Al Gore lose? Did H. Clinton lose? delisen Aug 2019 #15
Carter was the outsider in '76 and the ultimate insider in '80 StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #18
A president running for a 2nd term delisen Aug 2019 #23
re: "Therefore we should select a candidate who has never served in the senate." thesquanderer Aug 2019 #38
I'm thinking your friend is right. I'm for Warren, of course. PatrickforO Aug 2019 #16
There are only about 6 candidates that don't have established Washington credentials. LiberalFighter Aug 2019 #17
Sanders is the perennial outsider even while occupying the position of an insider. nt thesquanderer Aug 2019 #37
LOL LiberalFighter Aug 2019 #40
I've always loved Joe and kacekwl Aug 2019 #19
There are some discernable patterns ... NanceGreggs Aug 2019 #20
+1,000,000 highplainsdem Aug 2019 #21
Thank You, Nance! Your post is Cha Aug 2019 #24
The Statement is Correct and goes back almost to the nation's founding MarcA Aug 2019 #22
Every election cycle is different. TwilightZone Aug 2019 #25
The sample size is too small to be statistically significant. lapfog_1 Aug 2019 #26
Maybe she should read up on his foreign policy writings (OpEd on Central America) and interview emmaverybo Aug 2019 #28
Trump is in the White House. Any past trends are secondary. Zambero Aug 2019 #29
interesting observation... myohmy2 Aug 2019 #30
Clinton didn't lose. MrsCoffee Aug 2019 #41
My argument would be this: peggysue2 Aug 2019 #31
Agree with your friend Chantel Aug 2019 #32
+1000 Jirel Aug 2019 #39
there hadn't been a POTUS like Dump that they were running against treestar Aug 2019 #43
Gore, Kerry, and Clinton didn't actually lose. milestogo Aug 2019 #44
 

Boomer

(4,159 posts)
1. "Electability" is a shibboleth
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:22 PM
Aug 2019

There was a time when a Roman Catholic could not be elected -- until Kennedy was.

There was a time a black man could not be elected -- until Obama was.

There was a time when Donald Trump was too ludicrous to be elected -- until he was.

The way you become electable is to have people vote for you. Period. I don't believe Biden is any more electable than any one else. Personally, I'm voting for Warren. I find her "electable" because I can vote for her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
2. I agree with you about the "electability" thing.
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:23 PM
Aug 2019

At this point it seems to me that the strongest argument for his "electability" is that people think he's "electable." But my question is really about how to push back on an argument that a more "establishment" (a term I normally abhor) candidate is unlikely to win.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tblue37

(64,980 posts)
10. At this stage I think they conflate name recognition with electability. Notice that the more people
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:37 PM
Aug 2019

see of Warren, the better they like her, and she is getting bigger and bigger crowds. Her crowds are noticeably enthusiastic, too, and she has built a solid ground organization.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
3. Is that what the fascist pig squatting in the WH sold enough people on in 2016?
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:24 PM
Aug 2019

that he was a new face and wouldn't do things the establishment way, blah, blah, blah.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FoxNewsSucks

(10,375 posts)
14. Yep.
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:51 PM
Aug 2019

He claiimed his "outsider" status, then lied through his rotting teeth and told every group exactly what they wanted to hear.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
4. This is not a normal election, so I don't know if it's possible
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:25 PM
Aug 2019

to rely on historical precedents any more, therefore I wouldn't use this as a basis for a decision. This time the opposite might even be true: Trump has been so exhausting, erratic and chaotic that voters might be more inclined to choose someone they know is steady, experienced and reliable. This might be why Biden is leading in the polls so far. People know him; he was Obama's VP for eight years and he also gives an impression of steadiness and decency, qualities that Trump completely lacks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NBachers

(17,005 posts)
33. That would be my reply- The rules don't apply to this election, due to the trump republican atrocity
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 02:59 AM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

 

drray23

(7,587 posts)
6. I think her argument is based upon the conventional
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:26 PM
Aug 2019

Rules of how politics used to work. In the Trump era, I am not convinced we can rely upon these. Despite all odds, Trump won his party nomination and then went on to win ( with an assist from Russia, but still..)

Trump's behavior on any given day would have been disqualifying under the way things used to work. Now, what used to be unimaginable is becoming the norm.

For example, Joe Biden's age is a non issue since Trump is older and in worse shape. Likewise, his propensity to gaffes is irrelevant compared to Trump's daily lying.
Finally on the issue of galvanizing the voting base we darn better believe than the prospect of having Trump get a second term will be enough.

For these reasons, I think conventional wisdom on how these elections used to shape up is no longer applicable and that the electorate is looking for a stable, known quantity such as Joe Biden.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Control-Z

(15,681 posts)
35. Well thought out response, drray2.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 03:28 AM
Aug 2019

I agree with every word you wrote and hope to hear more from you in the future. I don't think I've read any of your posts before now, though your profile tells me you've been here for some time. DU just gets better with strong, Democratic voices like yours.

Good to meet you!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,474 posts)
42. "since Trump is older" No, he is not. Biden is 76, Trump is 73. But both are in their 70s though.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 11:47 AM
Aug 2019

The truth is important but then, after all, anybody can beat Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
8. I get it. But, we've never had to run after a trump.
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:29 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
9. My answer is we've never raced an electorate so damaged and devastated by the incumbent, DJT
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:34 PM
Aug 2019

What is different? Donald J. Trump. To me, that throws all the dogma out the window.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,177 posts)
11. the shit economy were huge factors during Bill Clinton and Obama's elections
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:37 PM
Aug 2019

with Carter there was the whole Nixon mess and Ford pardoning him.

Hillary would have won if not for Russia and Comey and she still got millions more votes.

people should vote for whoever they want but the problem no matter who is nominated will be Republican voter suppression attempts, the shit media and other factors which aren't about the candidate as much as the outside factors that want to stop Democrats.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
36. Right, there are always other factors. Correlation does not equal causation.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 08:10 AM
Aug 2019

You can also look at this as one of those stories like "the Dem always wins in a year with above average rainfall." (I made that one up, but you can find silly correlations like that.) Especially with a small sample size (small number of events to consider). Obviously, in this case we're talking about something that could be a factor, but we really can't make an assumption about how much of a factor it is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
12. It's a fair point, but I don't think it's decisive.
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:43 PM
Aug 2019

I don't think there are really enough datapoints to draw a strong conclusion from just this. Particularly since Gore actually won.

But, yeah, I think the fact that "old school" candidates haven't generally done as well in the recent past is one of many legitimate factors to take into account for the electability issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
13. While this is more than 45 years ago, JFK and LBJ did well
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:48 PM
Aug 2019

The concept that we need an outsider does not convince me. Clinton was an outsider mainly because in 1991, GHW Bush had a 91% approval rating due to the Gulf War. Clinton was able to run on the economy and win. I think that being an outsider had nothing to do with his victory.

I think that Joe Biden is the most electable candidate we have and Joe Biden is best suited to clean up and repair the damage done by trump. We have to repair and rebuild a number of agencies and then re-establish our relations with our allies. Joe is the best person to do this

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

delisen

(6,039 posts)
15. Did Al Gore lose? Did H. Clinton lose?
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:57 PM
Aug 2019

1. I don't think Gore or H. Clinton lost.

2. Carter was both a winner in 1976 and a loser in 1980 which changes the "statistic."

3. If one accepts that Gore and H. Clinton "lost" , another way of summing up that original list is to say that in 45 years no Democrat who served as Vice President has won an election for president

4. Another interpretation of the original list would be that with the exception of Obama all former senators who have run for president in the last 45 years lost. Therefore we should select a candidate who has never served in the senate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
18. Carter was the outsider in '76 and the ultimate insider in '80
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 10:17 PM
Aug 2019

especially compared to Reagan.

Running for second terms, both Clinton and Obama ran against challengers - Dole and Romney - who positioned themselves as more established and experienced than the incumbent.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

delisen

(6,039 posts)
23. A president running for a 2nd term
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 11:50 PM
Aug 2019

may be an insider since they will have appointed lots of insider to high positions I think. How long can one claim to be a Washington outside; and can you claim to be an outsider once you have served in the senate?

Romney was a governor, never a Washington insider.

Trying to apply probability statistics to something such as presidential elections where conditions change just does not seem scientific more like reading the leaves, especially since the definitions of of outsider/insider, experienced/inexperienced are so subjective.

and why arbitrarily choose the last 45 years?

I think the clearest message from the 45 year span would be that former Democratic Vice Presidents don't make it into the Oval Office and Democratic candidates who have served in the Senate are highly unlikely to be elected to a first term as president-but I think it would be foolish to vote or not vote for any person based upon those statistics



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
38. re: "Therefore we should select a candidate who has never served in the senate."
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 08:25 AM
Aug 2019

That argument has actually been put forth. One rationale is that senators tend to lose because--especially in the case of those with long careers--there will almost certainly be controversial votes that they will need to defend. Better to select someone who has not had to go on record on controversial bills, and can more easily tailor his/her message to the needs of the moment without worrying about having cast votes on complicated "take the bad with the good" or "it was a different time" bills that could be used as ammunition in accusations of flip-flopping, etc.

But really, I think the senator thing is another example that largely comes down to what I was talking about in my post #36, where it can be tempting to assign a causation when it is merely a correlation, which, with a small sample size, can easily be largely or entirely coincidental.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PatrickforO

(14,516 posts)
16. I'm thinking your friend is right. I'm for Warren, of course.
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:57 PM
Aug 2019

But Buddigieg, Harris - both really good. Booker is good.

In fact, the only candidates I'm not that excited about who are still in the running are Biden and Bernie.

Don't get me wrong - I'll support a yellow Lab for president should that be our nominee.

But we need a fresh candidate with big, bold ideas and plans to make them happen!

(See what I did there?)

?itok=ffm8rPNY

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalFighter

(50,504 posts)
17. There are only about 6 candidates that don't have established Washington credentials.
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 09:59 PM
Aug 2019

Of those, only Buttigieg is close to having a chance. But I wouldn't count on it. And the reason I have him selected is the favorite son thing. Within the 10 qualifiers, there is Yang and Castro, but he does not have the same "cutting edge" that past winners had. Not including Castro as being part of the established Washington credentials.

Otherwise the remaining candidates have established Washington credentials to one degree or another. While Trump did not. And look what happened. There should be voters that have a come to jesus moment and realize that you need someone as President that knows what the hell should be done or at least the right mindset.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
37. Sanders is the perennial outsider even while occupying the position of an insider. nt
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 08:12 AM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kacekwl

(6,994 posts)
19. I've always loved Joe and
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 10:23 PM
Aug 2019

supported and voted for Bernie in the last primary. But this time around I want a new face with new ways of doing things as well as old ideas that work. The old guard are great but not this time for me thank you. By the way I'm 64 so not a young buck trashing the old dudes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
20. There are some discernable patterns ...
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 10:49 PM
Aug 2019

… in politics – especially if you look for them.

However, presidents (as with all elected politicians) are not elected in a vacuum. Their ‘electability’ is influenced by the times in which they run. Where is the country’s economy at, what are the particular challenges facing the nation, what are the challenges facing individual citizens? What is the state of our relationships with our allies, and with our enemies? There are a myriad of things that influence the voting public, and those influences change from one election cycle to the next.

Had Obama been old enough to run in the ‘fifties, he could never have been elected due to his race. Had Mayor Pete been old enough to run in the ‘sixties, he would have been laughed off the stage – an openly gay man running for president? Never happen. And yet Obama won the presidency handily in 2008, and Mayor Pete is considered a viable candidate in 2019. Even as recently as 2008, many were still sceptical of a woman in the WH – a concept which nowadays seems incredibly ridiculous. Times change, and the voters’ perceptions change with them.

Imagine someone running on climate change or environmental preservation forty years ago. They’d be met with WTF is the guy on about? And yet those topics are now in the forefront. Major corporations used to offer healthcare coverage and liveable pensions – and now millions of citizens have to worry about not having those benefits that were once a given.

And now – well, we’re not living in normal times. I believe Biden’s appeal is the idea that he represents a return to the normalcy that was the no drama Obama era – and that includes civility in political discourse, re-alignment with our allies, standing up to our foes instead of kow-towing to them, and a commitment to undoing the damage Trump has done to our nation.

From what I’ve seen, even Trump-humpers are tired of the never-ending chaos, the endless scandals, the litany of lies, the ‘surprises’ they are faced with on a daily basis, the extremes they are being forced to accept as ‘business as usual’. If you’ve watched the GOP pundits and spokes-whores in the MSM of late, they look exhausted – tired of defending the indefensible 24/7, tired of having to explain the inexplicable, tired of defending a “pResident’s” positions that sometimes literally change while they’re sitting in make-up, preparing to go on-air.

Forgive me for rambling on and on – but you’ve posed an interesting question. Under ‘normal conditions’, a candidate who represents a return to the past would probably be seen as behind the times. But given the lunacy of the Trump “presidency”, I believe that a return to the past is something the majority of the country view as a desirable direction in which to go.

In view of the fact that the Trump era is so beyond what is ‘normal’, it is impossible to look back to ‘normal’ patterns and trends as being any guidance to where we are currently headed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,913 posts)
24. Thank You, Nance! Your post is
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 12:15 AM
Aug 2019

Interesting!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
22. The Statement is Correct and goes back almost to the nation's founding
Fri Aug 30, 2019, 11:25 PM
Aug 2019

and applies to more than Democrats or just Presidential Elections. It seems
to be part of human nature for better or worse or whatever.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
25. Every election cycle is different.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 12:36 AM
Aug 2019

This one more so than most. I think it's a bit misguided to try to apply vague assertions (like "new faces" ) to the current cycle. The sample size, for one, is rather small, and context is lacking.

No one was going to beat Reagan in 1984. That one had nothing to do with the establishment.

Gore, quite notably, did *not* run on the experience of the Clinton/Gore administration and tried to rebrand himself, so I'm not sure that fits the assertion.

That leaves Clinton and Kerry. Clinton won the popular vote and if not for the perfect storm would be president. If not for a late uptick in Bush's approval ratings, Kerry probably would have won, as well.

I think this is a classic case of making the "facts" fit what one has already predetermined the answer to be.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapfog_1

(29,166 posts)
26. The sample size is too small to be statistically significant.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 12:40 AM
Aug 2019

Not to mention that Kennedy and Johnson were both well known in Washington before running for President.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
28. Maybe she should read up on his foreign policy writings (OpEd on Central America) and interview
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 12:46 AM
Aug 2019

with Jonathan Capeheart. He seems entirely up on these issues, more so than other candidate.

Job-specific qualifications, knowledge, and experience (recent) don’t go out of style according to
cutting edge vs. old school classifications.

Biden’s resume is unmatched by his rivals. In any case, none are espousing any particularly novel ideas except perhaps Buttigieg in his Frederick Douglas plan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
29. Trump is in the White House. Any past trends are secondary.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 12:53 AM
Aug 2019

Trump has chewed up the long-standing rule book of convention and norms and summarily spit it out. Whether you love the creep or hate him, his erratic behavior represents a political reset button. Normal historic trends no longer apply in an era of abnormality. And for anyone with a short memory, it might also be noted that Gore and HRC lost their races under very questionable circumstances. What Dubya's brother in Florida was able to pull off in 2000 was accomplished in 2016 by a foreign adversary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

myohmy2

(3,118 posts)
30. interesting observation...
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 01:20 AM
Aug 2019

" She said that every Democrat who's won the presidency on the last 45 years - Carter, Clinton, Obama - were new faces who didn't run on their established Washington credentials but positioned themselves as the future of the party and country. And, with the exception of Dukakis, every candidate who lost - Mondale, Gore, Kerry, Clinton - ran as the "old, experienced hand." Given this, she argues that the party needs to nominate one of the more "cutting edge" candidates and not turn to Biden. "

...it does give you pause...

...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
41. Clinton didn't lose.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 10:45 AM
Aug 2019

It was treason.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,811 posts)
31. My argument would be this:
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 01:26 AM
Aug 2019

We aren't looking at anything resembling the last 45 years. We're facing a true threat from inside the house, a sustained attack to our democratic Republic and the rule of law. Trump and his enablers have been dismantling the very fabric of the country, shredding our institutions, discarding the moral compass that the vast majority of Americans live by while sneering at the ideals, however imperfect, that have held us together.

And the replacement? Cruelty, lies, incompetence and greed.

Joe Biden by virtue of his experience and knowledge, his genuine decency is uniquely qualified to put the pieces back together. Without a seasoned, compassionate hand, there will be no moving forward for any of us. And yes, I think his electability is a strong argument. We simply cannot lose in 2020, not if we want a democratic future for ourselves or our children. Voters trust Joe Biden; they identify with his flaws, his quirks, that big Irish grin. More than that, Americans want to believe again--in the country, in themselves. Biden can get us there, and then pass the baton to the next generation, that cutting edge candidate. But first, we need to staunch the bleeding and get the country back on its feet.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Chantel

(23 posts)
32. Agree with your friend
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 02:06 AM
Aug 2019

I agree with your friend, in my lifetime the democratic nominee elected was new (as you said, Carter, Clinton, & Obama). And, arguably they each brought a new and compelling view of the presidency and the world. I think a New Democratic President with a new attitude is just what the country needs. Think of the energy they would generate and all the new people who would make up their administration. I love Joe Biden, but if he’s elected we will be going back to the Obama administration. That administration was great at its time, but for many reasons I do not think it would work well in 2020. Joe could be part of the administration - perhaps as Secretary of State? Thank you for your thought-provoking post!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Jirel

(1,993 posts)
39. +1000
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 08:34 AM
Aug 2019

Now if only the DNC would get this clue. “Electability” is nonsense. It’s a lazy way of promoting the old guard, whether out of habit or a feeling that “it’s their turn.” But in the end, that is NOT who fires up voters. It’s more of a sure way to lose, when the two main points for their run are “I’m not the GOP guy,” and “I’m ‘electable’.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
43. there hadn't been a POTUS like Dump that they were running against
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 12:54 PM
Aug 2019

the whole dynamic is different here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
44. Gore, Kerry, and Clinton didn't actually lose.
Sat Aug 31, 2019, 01:05 PM
Aug 2019

Florida was won by Gore and stolen by the Supreme Court.

Ohio was won by Kerry and stolen by overnight Republican shenanigans with the vote.

2016 was won by Hillary Clinton and stolen by Russians fucking with our system.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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