Regarding Bernie's health

[beastie boy]

At the risk of stating the obvious: he is not dead. And he is not dying. Only he can accurately gauge his stamina and ability to continue running. It would be unfair for any of us to speculate on his state of health with regard to his fitness to hold the Office of the President. After all, at this point, he has not even been nominated, and we are months away from the Convention.

Like many DUers, I have a beef with Bernie (more accurately, I have a beef with Bernie's supporters, but this is not an issue I am raising in this post). But my disagreements with with him are political and ideological, not personal. I believe Bernie's health is entirely his, and none of my business. I further believe that bringing medical issues into a political discussion is sort of like bringing politics into an operating room. It's just out of place and not helpful.

[RKP5637]

1. Agree! Many people have had one medical issue or another, but many are really ok. Many have heart

attacks and stents, blockages removed, etc. and go on quite well. Given the incredible medical procedures we have today, I do not see that as an issue at all.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. No question, Bernie's not gonna let a stupid little heart attack slow him down!!

Bernie has the stamina of men 20 years younger.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

23. Riggghhht

[cwydro]

64. Didn't you once say that he was the healthiest candidate in the race?

Pretty sure I remember that because I thought at the time that it was so not true lol.

[BannonsLiver]

26. Yeah.

Unfortunately it is actually an issue in the real world.

[brush]

2. It's decision time. It's 13 months before the election and then 4 more years to serve if he wins.

Does anyone think there won't be another incident in all that time, considering he also had the fainting in the shower incident before this heart attack, which apparently was an earlier heart incident?

It's time to face the music and do the right thing for his health and for the party. Campaigning for president with all the travel, stress and the long, multiple-event days is physically taxing for even those with no heart issues.

Getting right back on the campaign trail is not wise for someone who just had a heart attack, and taking a month or two to rest, which is probably the best thing to do, will just about kill his campaign so Bernie heeds to make a tough but necessary decision.

[justie18]

4. Exactly!

My parents had heart attacks and even a mild heart attack will leave some scar tissue which could have an affect on heart function. Although I am not an MD, I know from close hand experience, heart attacks are nothing to dismiss as no big deal.

[beastie boy]

10. Heart attacks ARE a big deal.

And any victim of a heart attack makes his or her own decision as to what level of activity they are capable of after suffering one. My father survived two heart attacks and underwent a quadruple bypass by the time he was 75. He died 12 years later of kidney failure.

My point is, it's Bernie's decision that shouldn't involve political calculus, except on his part. In itself, it is not necessarily a reason to drop out.

[justie18]

33. But

Your father was not running for President of the US - the most demanding job on the planet. Even just the campaign is extraordinarily physically challenging. Bernie is already 78 years old and if he gets the nomination will be 79 years old during the general election cycle. If he wins he would be president in his 80's - let's get REAL here.

[beastie boy]

37. I din't quite get your point.

Do you disagree with me that Bernie alone should decide whether to stay in the race or not? Are you saying that a heart attack in his case is a disqualifier? And if it is, who makes this decision?

[justie18]

38. Well

I did not explicitly address whether it was Bernie's decision, because I thought it was patently obvious. OF course it is his decision. I am merely expressing my opinion, which I thought was the purpose of these forums.

But of course, he will not drop out. He is determined to be the spoiler once again.

[TreasonousBastard]

41. The voters make the ultimate decision.

[beastie boy]

6. William Henry Harrison, a military man in perfect health, was inaugurated in March 1841.

A month later, he was dead. FDR was well known to be in terrible health when he was re-elected to his fourth term. A candidate's health may be of some concern, but it is not a major concern by any means. Certainly not a disqualifying concern.

[brush]

8. Not a major concern? You just gave two examples of presidents who died in office.

How is that not a major concern? And of course there was Wilson whose wife had to take over decision making, and Reagan with the dementia which debilitated him in his second term. IMO a president's health is a major concern, as is a candidate's who voters need to be sure is healthy enough to do the job for four years without being debilitated.

[beastie boy]

16. I gave two examples in which a candidate's health had no effect, one way or the other,

on their record as President.

One died a month after being elected, and the other was re-elected DESPITE their respective health records. Harrison, with his perfect health prior to assuming office, became the most inconsequential President in US History, and FDR's last term in office, despite his extremely poor health, remains arguably the most consequential in US history.

[brush]

19. Please! Of course a president's health is a major concern, as is a candidate's.

Who is going to vote for a candidate they aren't sure he/she will make it through the term without dying or being debilitated? Who wants another Wilson or Reagan? Harrison presidency was inconsequential because he died one month into it, FDR's fourth term was also inconsequential because he didn't survive it.

Voters prefer to vote for a candidate who they have confidence he/she is healthy enough to do the job for the entire term. I'm pretty sure right now many are reconsidering whether to vote for Sanders right now because of the two heart incidents and the chance of another one occurring.

[beastie boy]

22. If voters consistently preferred candidates in good health, we wouldn't have had Presidents like...

...chronically infected Andrew Jackson, cancer-ridden Cleveland, morbidly obese Taft, or hormonally imbalanced JFK.

Evidently, this was not the case.

[brush]

27. And you think voters back then had the information outlets we have now to know about those...

health problems? Of course they didn't. Nothing stays secret now with cable news and the internet. Sanders being in the hospital was immediately known by the nation. His campaign tried to keep the fact that it was a heart attack secret but it came out 3 days later and everyone knows.

Nowhere near comparable to the Jackson, Cleveland and even the JFK maladies. Let's keep our eyes on the next polls. I'm betting Sanders will poll lower because of the heart attack.

[treestar]

63. It wasn't the end of the world, because the VP took over

for Harrison. Wilson or Reagan - there is the 25th Amendment. In the old days, they could hide things better, but not now.

[RKP5637]

15. Exactly!!! None can really predict the future with 100% certainty. Some people sometimes,

for example, develop aneurysms that have never been detected or suddenly occur, and suddenly burst. Some suddenly develop cancer out of the blue. There are many examples of sudden deaths and/or incapacitates in people that were very healthy and suddenly something happens. If Bernie's health has been thoroughly checked out, I don't see what happened as a disabler.

[George II]

40. It's not wise for a 60 year old to not take a month or two off, much less a 78 year old.

[NurseJackie]

3. I disagree.

I believe Bernie's health is entirely his, and none of my business.

I disagree. He has coronary artery disease and he's clearly not healthy. He may "feel fine" but he's not healthy. You don't "get over" heart disease the same way you get over the flu.

Whatever sense of "privacy" a normal citizen has with regard to their health (and Tax Returns) goes out the door whenever that person is vying to become our party's nominee for President of the United States. IS *IS* OUR BUSINESS. The American voters DESERVE TO KNOW if the person they're considering voting for has the stamina and overall health to withstand the rigorous schedule, the stress, the travel, the long and late hours... and whether they have the vitality and vigor to faithfully serve... FOR A FULL TERM.

It's just out of place and not helpful.

Actually, what's "not helpful" is hiding the truth from the American people

All I'm saying is... openness and honesty is always best. It serves no good purpose for any candidate to hide and withhold their life-threatening and deadly diseases from the voters by claiming "privacy" and scolding everyone with a "none of your beeswax" attitude.

[left-of-center2012]

5. Too many are celebrating his poor health

Sad to see.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Sad indeed... but hardly a surprise. Disappointing to say the least!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

24. If Biden had a heart attack you'd be saying he should get out of the race.

Likely posting it here over and over again. So why are you angry others have said Bernie should get out after he had a heart attack?

[NurseJackie]

30. Who is celebrating his poor health?

Too many are celebrating his poor health

Who is celebrating his poor health? I haven't seen that happening.

[left-of-center2012]

42. uh huh

[NurseJackie]

44. Oh, good lord! It that *really* what you believe?

If so, that's funny and sad at the same time... but mostly funny!

[left-of-center2012]

47. Some saw it as helping their candidate advance

I predict single digit candidates will not advance.

[NurseJackie]

48. I missed that.

You're right, the single digit candidates will soon be out.

[redstateblues]

53. Who is celebrating his poor health? While he is not my first choice

I admire his fire and I wish him well. I am a 71 year old still working and I am impressed by Bernie’s resilience and I think he will continue to be an important part of the primaries.

[betsuni]

60. Who?

[Jarqui]

7. There are two decision types

1. Bernie's personal decision
- based upon discussions with his doctors and family
- generally, given his history of health, long distance running, etc, he's probably ok to continue
- his campaign is going to go along with whatever he decides

2. The voter decisions
- in the primary and potentially, general election
- 70 something candidates like Bernie, Joe or Trump are more likely to have a health problem in the next four years than younger candidates. This fact may discourage some voters from supporting them. I do not care to debate that. It is just the way that it is. On the other hand, Mayor Pete's young age may work against him in the experience column.

The primary and general election are going to sort this out.

I still like Bernie, Joe & Pete .. and Elizabeth, etc. So this event is not going to have a major effect on me.

[dchill]

9. David Letterman had QUINTUPLE bypass surgery...

...in 2000. Still going strong. Usually, all you need is good, timely medical care. I think Bernie is good to go.

[rusty fender]

58. I forgot that he was running

for POTUS right after he had quintuple bypass surgery

[dchill]

59. Is that really a legitimate rebuttal of my post?

[rusty fender]

62. Is your comparison of a

talk show host’s experience with heart disease to a 78 year-old presidential candidate’s experience with heart disease, a legitimate comparison in the first place

[dchill]

66. No, just that fixing clogged coronary arteries...

...seems to be a very good thing for a body's health. I'm not particularly a Bernie supporter, but I'm very glad to hear he's feeling better. I just happen to remember the benefits that Letterman claimed after his surgery, and hope for the same for Bernie. That's all. Other comparisons need not apply.

[rusty fender]

67. Okay, then

[Zambero]

13. Health-wise, Bernie is miles ahead of, say, Dick Cheney at this point

Cheney had already suffered multiple heart attacks prior to his (self-promoted) selection as GOP veep candidate in 2000, and has since then. Bernie seems to have bounced back fairly quickly. No one can predict with certainty what the future holds in store for his future health status, or anyone else's for that matter. It is his decision to stay in the race, and whether or not one supports his candidacy, Bernie has every right to proceed according to his own wishes. Beyond that, voters will decide who the nominee is.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

14. Cheney could have been the healthiest man on the planet and still was unfit to be VP

[Zambero]

50. Agreed

Not the analogy I was attempting to make, but having said that I cannot disagree with your assessment of V.P. Vader!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Well said.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[highplainsdem]

17. K&R! Agree completely!

[Tetrachloride]

18. My job as a voter is the right pair of candidates for Pres and Vice-Pres

Ignoring the health and state of mind of the candidates is the same logic as ignoring the Constitution.

[beastie boy]

20. As a voter, you have evry right to consider a candidate's health.

You also have every right to make it your only consideration. My objection was making it a (significant) part of political or ideological discourse. And I wasn't calling to ignore the issue.

[George II]

21. What we all have to keep in mind is who he might choose as VP candidate if he's nominated.....

Being president takes a toll on a person. For example (and he's 20 years younger!):

[brush]

31. How are you figuring 20 years younger? if those are before and after photos they are somewhat...

misleading and something that many make the mistake of not realizing that in your 50s is when grey hair starts to show. O's face is hardly if at all different but he has grey hair in the second photo, which is nature taking it's course.

In Sanders' case, voters now have to consider whether to vote for a candidate who is pushing 80 and has had two heart incidents or another candidate who hasn't had health questions. We are fortunate in that we have several other qualified candidates to choose from.

[George II]

34. Obama is 58, Sanders is 78.

[brush]

35. True enough. But IMO I'd vote for someone younger or with no heart issues instead of a 78-year-

old with two recent heart incidents.

[George II]

36. That's exactly it. I wasn't trying to show that Obama is looking old or unhealthy, I was trying...

...to put it into perspective.

If Obama looked like that when he took office and then looked the way he did in 2016, imagine the toll on a person who is 78 and seemingly unhealthy after four or eight years?

[BannonsLiver]

25. The heart attack is disqualifying

Whatever slim chance Bernie had to win is long gone now.

[TexasBushwhacker]

29. I agree

His supporters are enthusiastic, but their numbers are dwindling. I worry that Bernie will return to the campaign trail too soon instead of doing what's best for his health. I would prefer that he drop out voluntarily rather than getting beaten in the primaries.

[SidDithers]

43. +1...

He should drop out.

Sid

[Pathwalker]

45. +1000

n/t

[kcr]

49. Yes. He's a fool to stay in it.

Dems would be utter fools to nominate him, which is why it isn't happening. Nominating a nearly 80-year-old man who just had a heart attack is a guaranteed Trump win. He should drop out and focus on recovery.

[pnwmom]

28. He isn't dead, yes. But the statical odds of his dying within in a few years just doubled.

Median survival for someone 75 or older who's had a heart attack: 3.1 years.

Some here clearly are comfortable with that. Some aren't.

And remember: if he were to become our nominee, voters would have no choice in who he picks as VP. We'd be stuck with that person, whoever it was.

https://www.cardiovascularbusiness.com/topics/acute-coronary-syndrome/study-65-older-mi-patients-die-within-8-years

“From a healthcare perspective, these statistics are sobering,” lead author Ajar Kochar, MD, with Duke Clinical Research Institute, and colleagues wrote in the Journal of the American Heart Association. “These findings should lead to reflections on appropriate utilization and optimal dosing of secondary prevention therapies, along with revascularization when indicated for older patients with MI. Novel medication approaches to secondary prevention may be of particular interest to older patients with MI.”

The analysis contained almost 23,000 patients from the CRUSADE registry who were treated at 344 U.S. hospitals from 2004 to 2006. Patients were a median of 77 years old at baseline, 52.5 percent were male and 13.3 percent were nonwhite.

In the overall cohort, the median survival was 4.8 years, including 8.2 years for those aged 65 to 74 and 3.1 years for people over 75. Eight-year mortality rates were 65 percent overall, 49 percent for those undergoing PCI and 46 percent for CABG patients.

[Zambero]

54. Much depends upon the quality and availability of care

Median is not an absolute quantity or even an average. It's a statistical point where half of a population sample is above and half below the mid-point. Adequate care or better would in most instances tend to put an individual to the right side of the curve, with survival in years greater than the median number itself.

[pnwmom]

55. I know what a median is, thanks. And having such a stressful job would lower

a heart attack survivor's odds more than excellent care would enhance it -- in my opinion.

[Zambero]

56. And I'm always amazed by how many who do NOT know this

Stress to varying degrees is universal within and outside of the workplace. My primary source of stress at the moment has been hanging out at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, in-between golf weekends. Some handle it better than others. Lots of variables to consider.

[pnwmom]

57. Any of our Democratic candidates would find the job highly stressful, because they are all

conscientious people who would be trying to do a good job.

Unlike the orange slug currently in office.

[MineralMan]

32. The voters will decide if it matters.

You'll see it reflected in his polling numbers, which will give you an idea of his chances in the primaries.

What we think as individuals doesn't matter. The voters will decide, as always.

[loyalsister]

39. "lifestyle changes"

And reducing stress are common recommendation as response to many health events. Especially heart events. Internal campaign decisions are obviously up to the candidate.
But, when I remember encouraging my grandma to retire and take time to relax, I question the wisdom of not adjusting to a new awareness of bodily limits.

[Garrett78]

46. The age and health of candidates, though, is worth considering.

Most presidents have been in their 40s or 50s, and very few have taken office over the age of 62.

The reality is that some physical and mental decline is unavoidable. There is no magical fountain of youth.

[tblue37]

51. Dick Cheney had multiple heart attacks, and ultimately a heart transplant, but he

is still alive all these years later.

[George II]

61. I still wonder how Cheney had a heart transplant - what did they replace?

[peggysue2]

65. Bernie Sanders is a grown man

He's entitled to make his own decisions about his physical fitness. Now, if he were my father I'd probably be pleading with him to sit this out. But he's not so I have no say in the decision.

Ultimately, voters at the ballot box will decide if this is an issue. For Sanders' sake, I hope he stays well.

[betsuni]

68. I guess it's fine for him to remain in the race as long as he doesn't go to too many fundraisers

like the one he had in Vegas where tickets went up to the price of $2,800 when he had the heart attack, and other events. His emails keep telling us how Biden is bad because he has fundraisers. Maybe they are dangerous.

[NCLefty]

69. Sure, but he's 78 and just had a heart attack while the campaign is still in its infancy.

It's not going to get any *less* stressful.