WaPo: Winners (Warren/Sander/Klobuchar) and losers (Booker/Steyer) from the Debate

[TomCADem]

I have to say that Warren did well given that everyone was gunning for her as a perceived front runner, even Bernie, who oddly criticized her Medicare for all plan, but then repeated her answer that the middle class nets out over all under such a plan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/15/winners-losers-october-democratic-debate/

Winners
Elizabeth Warren, the front-runner: For the first time in one of these debates, Warren found herself under sustained attack. Through a combination of debate format, Joe Biden’s leads in early polls and Warren’s unique political Teflon, she had somehow avoided it. That changed Tuesday, though. Warren was the focal point, with the other candidates all but taking their focus thoroughly off Biden. It wasn’t completely smooth sailing for Warren (which we’ll get to), but it was an affirmation that she is viewed as perhaps the front-runner now.

Bernie Sanders: In his first debate after suffering a heart attack, he seemed more lively than he has been at any previous one. He was also witty, joking with Biden after Biden gestured at him while talking about Vladimir Putin. “Are you suggesting I’m Vladimir Putin?” Sanders asked before the two men embraced. At another point, Cory Booker noted that Sanders supports medical marijuana, and Sanders responded, “But I’m not on it tonight.” Sanders has been accused of sometimes being humorless and a little dry — even overly angry. He also has a perception issue because of his health problem. Fighting that off was the most important thing he could do Tuesday.

Amy Klobuchar: The Minnesota senator arguably made herself Warren’s chief foil in this debate, creating contrasts on taxes, Medicare-for-all and other issues. At one point, she rejected the charge that she was creating a Republican talking point by pressing Warren on whether her Medicare-for-all proposal would raise taxes on the middle class. “You are making Republican talking points right here in this room” by talking about getting rid of private insurance, Klobuchar charged. And she wasn’t wrong. All of this said, being the attacker in these debates hasn’t always meant much. See: Castro, Julián and Delaney, John. But Klobuchar needs to try something, especially since she’s fighting to make the fifth debate; we’ll see if voters are buying it. (One piece of advice, on behalf of all of Klobuchar’s fellow Minnesotans: The bad jokes need to stop.)

* * *
Biden: Not only does he seem to no longer be the candidate his opponents fear most, he was again somewhat off his game. He offered some odd figures on the middle-class costs of Medicare-for-all. He said “expidentially” instead of “exponentially.” He mixed up Iraq with Afghanistan. He said he never discussed his son’s Ukraine dealings with him, even though his son has said differently. And at the end of the debate, Biden said he didn’t mean to disrespect his opponents but that “I’m the only one on this stage who has actually gotten anything really big done.” His opponents bucked, with Warren pointing to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau — and then suggesting that perhaps certain members of the Obama administration could have been more supportive. Biden hasn’t really dropped in the polls as Warren has risen, but he is not showing the sharper version of himself that he probably needs to. And he seemed to be trying a little too hard at points on Tuesday.

[abqtommy]

1. Please edit yoiur op title for speling errers. I'm no pureest but I do try to do an edit before

I post. Otherwise you have my hearty approval.

[Skittles]

2. your title, that's a joke, right?

[emmaverybo]

3. Biden was sure on target about Syria while Warren was way off the mark. He was also correct

that he had worked to get votes for her issue. She was flat-out childish in her response to him. I
don’t agree that she handled incoming well and she is going to have to up her game on taxes for
M4All. She seems fine when not opposed, but takes on a rather different manner encountering
opposition or being told she isn’t the only one fighting or the only one with ideas.

[Thekaspervote]

4. She did not have a good night at all

The CBO has come out with a price tag for mfa: 34 trillion over the next decade. No wonder she isn’t talking about it...wow!

Agree that her response was immature in response to Biden helping her get the votes out for her bill.

[TomCADem]

5. It Is Ironic That Biden Is Complaining Based in Costs Estimates...

...when the ACA itself was alleged to have high costs, but ultimately cost less than estimated. My take is that so many developed countries offer better health care at cheaper prices, that we know that it is doable. Canada seems to be doing okay.

[boomer_wv]

7. ACA

Was never expected to nearly double the entire federal budget.

[TomCADem]

9. Other Wealthy Countries Spend Half as Much on Healthcare Than the US

Estimates of the costs of the ACA were overblown due in part to the fact that they were both being cautious in their estimates and they were compared based on the facts surrounding the current system. I can understand if Medicare for all was being proposed in a vacuum. But it isn't. The U.S. has a broken healthcare system, which the ACA has helped fix, but there is still a lot of room for improvement.

My question is how can you simply accept the idea that single payer is not doable when so many wealthy counties manage to pull it off?

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/how-do-healthcare-prices-and-use-in-the-u-s-compare-to-other-countries/#item-on-average-other-wealthy-countries-spend-half-as-much-per-person-on-healthcare-than-the-u-s

Total health spending is a function of both price paid to providers or for drugs and the volume of services used. These charts explore prices and use of health services in the U.S. relative to comparable countries (those with both a total GDP above the median for OECD countries and a per capita GDP greater than the OECD median). While available data are limited to select services and drugs, we find that higher prices – more so than utilization – explain the United States’ high health spending relative to other high-income countries.

The U.S. has higher prices for most health care services and prescription drugs, according to available internationally comparable data. Meanwhile, utilization of several services, including physician consultations and hospital stays, is lower than in many comparable countries. Use of some services, such as C-sections and knee replacements, is higher in the U.S. than in similar countries.

Despite having fewer office visits and shorter average hospital stays, the U.S. overall spends twice as much per person on healthcare than do comparable countries.

[boomer_wv]

10. explain

how we pass the bill.

[TomCADem]

11. It Is The Same Process Any Democratic President Would Face

What makes you think that a Republican Senate Would Support Even Modest Reform?

[boomer_wv]

12. Republicans?

M4A doesnt have Democratic support, much less Republican.

You can get bipartisan support if you are willing to make concessions; but not for something that big.

[lonely bird]

6. Win, Lose?

Christ. These things are nonsense. Oh, so and so sounded so good last night. They are polling at 3% but they sounded so good.

If the Democratic Party isn't careful they will step on their collective dicks while wearing track shoes.

And the idiot media doesn't help.

[boomer_wv]

8. Are we really going to freak out....

because Biden mispronounces a word while? This is a guy that struggled with, and was bullied for, a stutter for a lot of his early life. Most people who struggle with that never really get rid of it.