Oh no. Joe compares Bernie and Elizabeth to Trump on M4A.

[HerbChestnut]

We don't need this.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/10/17/supporting-medicare-all-biden-accuses-sanders-and-warren-playing-trumps-game-and?fbclid=IwAR3lsJkVPwzT366EeOji6VPYxHAbG_1ewVIH6CxAbyNwuk5P4U-i9OTXX8Y

Link to the video:

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1184605935848841219&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.commondreams.org%2Fnews%2F2019%2F10%2F17%2Fsupporting-medicare-all-biden-accuses-sanders-and-warren-playing-trumps-game-and

For reference, here's some possible financing options. Of course, nothing is finalized and these are subject to change:

A 70 percent top marginal tax rate on Americans earning over $10 million per year;
A 77 percent top tax rate on estates above $1 billion;
A tax on "extreme wealth";
A "fee on large financial institutions";
A "7.5 percent income-based premium paid by employers, exempting the first $2 million in payroll to protect small businesses"; and
A four percent "income-based premium paid by employees, exempting the first $29,000 in income for a family of four."

Source: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/04/10/how-will-you-pay-it-bernie-sanders-tackles-key-question-medicare-all

And before you say OmG cOmMoN dReAmS!!1!1 please acknowledge Biden's own words.

[Cha]

1. And, BS said Biden is sounding like trump on M4A..

Bernie Sanders Says Biden 'Is Sounding Like Donald Trump' on Medicare for All

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287204945

[qazplm135]

15. so we agree that NO ONE

should be comparing ANYONE on our side to Trump yes?

IDGAF if Bernie did it first. NO ONE should be doing it.

[Cha]

18. Exactly.

[George II]

58. Four hours and no response. Hmmmm.

[melman]

2. That's pretty fucked up

[Cha]

5. "Bernie Sanders Says Biden 'Is Sounding Like Donald Trump' on Medicare for All"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287204945

[melman]

8. Looking at that thread

I see you posted some thirty times and seemed quite outraged indeed.


So I trust your equally outraged by this.. yes?

[Cha]

10. Any comment on how "pretty fucked up" it was for

BS to say that?

And, yeah.. I don't like Biden saying it, either.. leave ******* trump's name out of it.

[melman]

14. No

What Sanders said was very different.

[Cha]

17. Yeah I figured.. it's ok for BS to bring fucking trump's

name into it but not Biden.

I don't like either of them doing it.

[ehrnst]

37. +1000.

[Cha]

66. Mahalo, ehrnst!

[ritapria]

77. Mayor Pete on MFA in 2018

From Politico: " Buttigieg backed Medicare for All in 2018 tweet " …. Barack Obama also backed MFA in 2018 …..

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

79. Those pesky facts!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

86. And? (nt)

[melman]

45. "I don't like either of them doing it."

So you say.. Yet your first response was to spam that link all over the thread.

Full-on whataboutism and not a word about Biden's comment until challenged.

[ehrnst]

87. This sure beats coming up with an actual response, doesn't it?

[George II]

55. That's the way it works, isn't it?

[Cha]

65. Yep.. and there we have it.

[George II]

67. Bazinga!

[George II]

41. No it isn't, it's pretty much the same. But for some that's ok I guess. Wonder why?

[melman]

42. If it's the same

how come you're not outraged like you were before? Seems odd.

[George II]

48. Too busy trying to convince those who are bashing Biden that he didn't do as accused....

....AND others have done similar.

Once those who are feigning THEIR outrage admit they're wrong, I'll have time to get around to expressing my opinion on what Biden presumably said. I'm afraid I'll never be able to do so, however.

Next?

[ehrnst]

89. Bazinga!

[melman]

95. Swing and a miss

And that's being kind.

[George II]

99. Nope.

"And that's being kind."

[LanternWaste]

97. Of course you're holding Sanders to a lower standard.

It's the most convenient way to rationalize the irrational.

[Demsrule86]

94. I get his point though...both want to end the ACA for something worse in Trump's case and kind of

vague in Warren's case ( I like my work insurance so I find it worse not everyone will of course)...shows you how both sides do not favor MFA...and that is the reality which our side must consider or we will lose 20. Run on the ACA with a public option. We won the midterms with the ACA...Trump can't demonize it.

[OldRed2450]

49. I agree with Biden

It's deceptive to promise so much all while knowing you can't do it.

[ChubbyStar]

3. I listened 4 times and I thought it was an odd statement

A bit baffling.

[Modern Fictions]

4. Somebody get me a bucket

I haven't this nauseous since Bush and Cheney were given authority to invade Iraq.

[Cha]

6. Did this make you "nauseous"?!

Bernie Sanders Says Biden 'Is Sounding Like Donald Trump' on Medicare for All

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287204945

[Modern Fictions]

16. Yes, Does That Give You Comfort?

We are Democrats. If we can't tell the difference between another Dem and Trump, that is a major issue.

Worse, if we know the difference, and still cynically try to muddy the differences to score political points against a primary opponent, that is nauseating.

Ok, maybe not as much as green-lighting an unnecessary invasion for neo-conservative profiteers, but still wretch-worthy.

[Cha]

19. What are you talking about?

[Modern Fictions]

22. Let Me Spell It Out

You responded to my post in which I respond with disgust to a Dem candidate comparing another to Trump.

You respond by posting a "well, what about him?" link, believing that I would be taken aback by the hypocrisy. But, unfortunately for you, I'm not similarly disposed to back a candidate regardless of any action he or she may take. Biden was wrong. Sanders was wrong.

Two wrongs don't make any of them less f'ed up.

In the same speech, Biden said that "credibility matters." That's advice that more people around here should heed before posting.

[Cha]

23. I asked a question.. my "comfort" has nothing to do with it.

[lapucelle]

28. So BS's July statement made you more nauseated than you've been since 2003?

Sometimes if you have something to eat, it will settle your stomach.

[melman]

29. The donut gag!

Hilarious as always.

But no comment on Biden trashing your candidate? Odd.

[ehrnst]

35. lol

Didn't work for you here, either, did it?

[melman]

40. Oh

it works all right. The lack of response is very illuminating. Same as before.

[ehrnst]

88. Yes, same as before... boring.

Are those things comfortable?

It's funny how certain people don't realize how obvious certain things are.

[melman]

93. Phillip Johnson's Glass House in New Canaan, CT

Nice picture but it has nothing to do with this.


I don't live in a glass house and I don't misrepresent myself online. Unlike others.

[ehrnst]

101. Lol. Same thing over and over again.

Boring.

[George II]

51. I prefer cupcakes myself:

[lapucelle]

57. A happy cupcake is preferable to one that's angry.

[George II]

39. Well what do you know, nice catch Cha. Mahalo!

[Cha]

64. Oh I sure as hell didn't forget that..

Certainly his supporters remember when BS said that?

Mahalo, George!

[Demsrule86]

96. So criticizing Warren is as bad as invading Iraq...ridiculous. What we have here is a difference of

opinion between candidates and to fair to Biden...Trump does want to end the ACA and so does Warren.That is a fact. Of course she thinks her plan is better and Trump wants no plan. I would remind you that other candidates have compared Biden to Trump and that was just fine but of course not for Warren. It is a two way street you know. Warren is a candidate like anyone else and as her supporters have often said policy differences are fair game in a primary. And I know for a fact Sanders compared Biden to Trump over healthcare and some on this thread thought that was just fine.

[Skya Rhen]

7. Joe's right. MFA is impossible to happen - more impossible than the building of Trump's pet project.

[Gore1FL]

9. It's impossible when Democrats buy into false GOP cost arguments. That is true.

I am hoping that enough Democrats will embrace rather than fear our values to make it possible in the end.

[Thekaspervote]

12. Congressional Budget office says mfa... 32 trillion over the next decade. Realistically... you

Think people will “embrace” 32 trillion?

[Gore1FL]

13. How much will we pay for medical insurance without it? I bet it's shitloads more.

Instead of looking at 1 big scary figure, let's look at all the data.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

80. BINGO!!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[dansolo]

82. Its not shitloads more

I believe it was marginally more, like 2-3 trillion. The problem is that the M4A costs are based on the requirement that all medical services be charged at current Medicare rates. That is unrelistic, so the cost for M4A will very likely be even higher than the 32 trillion figure.

[Gore1FL]

106. If we only break-even, I can live with that.

We can cover everyone and live up to our ideals in the process.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

[Perseus]

20. You are right because Scandinavian countries could not do it, Canada could not do it

How can we so pretentious to think that we could have Universal Healthcare when all those countries could not do it? don't they know we love to file and fight claims? Don't they know we cannot live without co-payments and deductibles? that we all love to pay over four times for treatments and medicines? that we love how the medical and pharmaceutical industry tries to con us every day? How can we live without insurance and pharma commercials on TV every day, every programming break? The gull of it!

Oh...Wait a second...Scandinavian countries and a bunch of other European countries, plus Canada and other South American countries do have Universal Healthcare...I almost forgot.

[blm]

33. We aren't SMART enough to achieve universal healthcare when greed

compels the entire GOP and enough Democrats to keep conning their parties into fearing it.

The force of greed has always proven to be more powerful than the force of intellect in the political arena.

And our supposed ‘friends’ don’t even want to try, it’s too hard to be honest intellectually. Siding with greed is so much easier.

[George II]

44. It may come as a surprise that Canada has "universal healthcare" (a confusing misnomer, btw)....

But not everything is covered. Yeah, that's right!

http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page4.html

Private Health Insurance

While the health care system in Canada covers basic services, including primary care physicians and hospitals, there are many services that are not covered. These include things like dental services, optometrists, and prescription medications.

Private health insurance plans are usually offered as part of employee benefit packages in many companies. Incentives usually include vision and dental care. Alternatively, Canadians can purchase insurance packages from private insurance providers.

The main reason many choose to purchase private insurance is to supplement primary health coverage. For those requiring services that may not be covered under provincial health insurance such as corrective lenses, medications, or home care, a private insurance plan offsets such medical expenses.

So if you're putting up Canada as an example of how it can be done as BS proposes, you're off base.

Canada DOES have private insurance available, employers DO offer insurance in their benefit packages, prescription drugs, dental services, and eyeglasses are NOT covered!

Canada understands that throwing all of those things into their system AND outlawing private insurance companies SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK!!!

Ooops, as we engineers say, "back to the drawing board"!!!

[floppyboo]

74. depends which province you live in. Quebec has the most comprehensive

they even cover in vitro. I think Alberta has some pretty nifty perks. BC is introducing dental this year or next. So, yes, you are right - there is lots of flexibility. I remember in Ontario, my friend shared a room with 5 others when she had her baby, but I got a double room for an appendectomy - because of my father's biz extra coverage. Massage and Chiro are available in some provinces, and not in others. For some reason, these, plus dental, are considered basically extra.

I don't think you guys should be so scared of loosing your private insurance. Insurance companies would be offering bells and whistles and people will agree to take a pay cut to be treated extra special. Or get that extra nip and tuck or whatever.

I think the point is that universal healthcare - which covers every basic health care issue for everyone - can't happen unless everyone agrees to a base 'buy-in' through taxation. And excuse the socialist language, but that buy in is equal for everyone according to their means and equal for everyone according to their needs. If you want more over and above necessary - then pay for the extra.

[UniteFightBack]

61. It's impossible because it took 10 years for ACA to start...START catching on..and all we heard was

repeal and god damn replace for that whole time. Our party got wiped the hell out and you think this MFA is some friggin cakewalk. It takes A REALLY LONG TIME for Americans to be brought along...especially for something this massive.

If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor nonsense would be the tip of the iceberg!

Oh and remember the Senate...remember that little old thing. I've had ENOUGH of these yes, pipe dreams instead of focusing on what we can REALLY get done.

Vote with your head!!!

[Gore1FL]

63. And the Dems ran from it for a while to be safe.

And we didn't go for a public option. It was safer. And despite not getting one single vote from them, we acquiesced time and time again to the Republicans. It was safer.

Let's run from our ideals. It's safer. Let's move the party to the right. The votes between the 40-yard lines are safer.

Better to be timid than to fight for what's right." can be our new motto! It's certainly been our practice. I have thirty-five years as a voter and I've never seen it work.

I have seen bold work. I've seen boldness put us on the moon. I've seen boldness clean the environment. Boldness gave us Social Security. Boldness gave us Medicare. Boldness gave us interstates.

I'm just old enough to remember what we were once capable of. I am tired of hearing that we can't do what other less economically wealthy nations manage to do. Your "pipe dreams" are too many people's reality, and I won't settle for less so easily as you.

[emmaverybo]

24. Refreshing and courageous honesty, Skya Rhen. The hard truth is hard.

[Gore1FL]

26. I guess it is a hard truth when we can't even get Democrats to embrace our values.

I find it tragic that we question our own values and instead just tack right in the name of some electoral safety that never happens.

[emmaverybo]

30. It is not tacking right to adopt a feasible plan to get to universal healthcare. M4All is simply not

the only way and, in any case, if there were a pathway to implement it, the process would be some time off. So, we need to work on solutions to cover more people in a more near future.

[Gore1FL]

34. It was called "impossible upthread."

You called that characterization "refreshing and courageous honesty." I reject that characterization and I reject outright that it is impossible.

If we don't act boldly we are doomed.

[emmaverybo]

60. Universal healthcare simply means healthcare for all. It is not synonymous with M4All. It is not

even conditional upon single-payer, a federally administered program. Speaking of single payer, though, private insurance is allowed in some single-payer countries and there is, for instance, with NHS in England, privatization.

There are also those who pay out of pocket for better or faster care. Even within universal healthcare systems, restrictions exist. Not all treatments or drugs are covered. Not all people existing within a country are covered. In France, West Africans protest weekly because they are not given legal rights and benefits. Were I to attempt to immigrate to a country in Western Europe, I would have to show proof of income so that I would not be a drain on benefits.

I’d also have to get used to much higher taxes. The Yellow Jackets in France are protesting against taxes In the form of gas taxes they feel go to benefits for immigrants. And there people are used to paying for universal benefits with higher taxes. But these have become a wedge issue, dividing
people politically, with fascists gaining a foothold.

We need to think through how best to get universal healthcare. I am not convinced M4All is the best option.

[Gore1FL]

108. I'd much rather pay higher taxes and lower health premiums in the total cost is lower.

I'm not sure why the math is a problem here.

[emmaverybo]

110. For many, that could be true--their tax raise may be more than compensated by what they save

on premiums. For some millions, however, on employer and retirement-provided plans, that math may not hold.

For those who have good quality plans at affordable rates or no cost, we are asking them to be altruistic in the extreme. And for an unknown product we won’t have for years.

[Gore1FL]

113. It's just weird that every other western nation can do this.

What do you identify as the United States' flaw that makes this so different for us? Where, in your opinion, are we lesser than Europe? Are we poorer? less intelligent? Have fewer natural resources? What do we lack in comparison?

[emmaverybo]

117. NHS is getting privatized and is a mess. People on Medicaid have much better healthcare. America

is tax averse, but then the French are protesting taxation they feel they pay for immigrants’ benefits. It is simply not all great healthcare in other Western countries. Single payer has its problems. The idea that all treatments, tests, drugs are approved is a fantasy.

Single-payer as Europe had is not the only way to go. M4All is not the only option to get to universal health care. Looking to other countries is fine, but we need to recognize our differences and the drawbacks in their systems.

[Gore1FL]

118. They are still better than what we have.

We can do better. We can't do better when we just rock in the corner and worry that our good ideas are everything the GOP says they are.

You do your thing. After 40 years of listening to the same "we can't" lines over and over and over, I'm done with it and will do mine.

[emmaverybo]

119. We can have universal healthcare. It does not have to be M4All. It does not have to be single-payer,

federally administered. How we get there is the question. I am not arguing against it.

But you, just like candidates, can’t single-handedly and magically bring on the system you want. You and they can hope to build consensus and implement through legislation. Still would be a ways off.

[Demsrule86]

102. It is impossible and will end just like Clintoncare...and maybe we lose the ACA in the attempt...bad

idea. And if we act 'boldly' which is against the voters wishes,we will be voted out. You don't get to make policy that the majority of Americans disagree with when you are elected by them and are supposed to represent them...what you suggest is almost a dictatorship...and we will pay the price for it electorally; you need to sell MFA first and it has not happened yet.

[Gore1FL]

107. Bullshit

When we veer away from our values and ply it safe we lose almost every time, and when we win with GOP-Lite, what exactly are we winning?

[Demsrule86]

114. People always talk about values when they want something that will make us lose. What value is there

in giving Trump another four years or pushing MFA so we lose the ACA ...the only healthcare that has ever passed. If wishes were fishes...winning isn't just important...we must take Trump out he is dangerous and more will die if he remains so fuck such so called values. MFA is a loser in this election.

[Gore1FL]

115. That's an argument I've heard for forty years. It's been wrong the whole time

We have to have Lloyd Bentsen as VP. Otherwise Bush will be president.
We have to have Joe Lieberman as VP. Otherwise Bush will be president.
We have to have John Kerry run on Howard Dean's Iraq stance. Otherwise Bush will be president.
We can't nominate a black man for president. The Republicans will win for sure.
We can't come out for gay rights. If we do, the Republicans will win for sure.
We better run from Obamacare. If we don't, the Republicans will win for sure.

I'm really tired of unfounded fear driving our platform. It's almost always wrong. In the rare case that it isn't the best we achieve is something that doesn't meet our goals. I am done compromising my values for false promises from people scared of their own espoused beliefs.

[emmaverybo]

111. +1000

[TCJ70]

54. How much more likely is Biden's plan? Why are Republicans more likely to vote to expand the ACA...

...they’ve been trying to destroy for 10 years?

[Demsrule86]

103. We need the Senate and no one gets much without it, but the GOP have been beaten up badly over

the ACA and may come to the table for fixes in order to keep their seats....You don't consider that we don't have the votes in the House for MFA...we have forty moderates, many who ran on improving the ACA, and they will not vote for MFA...and we have right wing courts ready to strike it down if we manage to get it through before it even helps one person...the groundwork for Universal health was laid by Obama with the ACA and we would be fools to start over.

[TCJ70]

109. Fully aware. Given that...I'll back the people that want to go the furthest...

...because that way there’s no chance of ending up further to the right than we have to.

[UniteFightBack]

62. Agreed. But lets focus on fantasy plans instead of shit that can GET DONE. nt

[George II]

11. That is FAR from "comparing" them to trump.

[Modern Fictions]

21. "Playing Trump's game, trying to con the American people"

That's pretty nasty stuff, there. If it is not a comparison, it is a suggestion that Warren (he wasn't actually referring to Sanders in the Times reporting) is playing the same cynical game as thoroughly amoral Donald Trump.

As for "con," let me help you with a concise definition: to persuade (someone) to do or believe something by use of a deception.

Do you really think that those sorts of comments are fair game?

[emmaverybo]

25. He addressed what he thought our side should not do--he names "Democrats," and he is right.

Democrats should not promise pie in the sky. We have real problems needing realistic solutions.

[randr]

27. I'm close to abandoning the whole bunch

and looking for someone new who will at least define for me what the Party is going to stand for.

[emmaverybo]

31. I thought that is called a platform the party adopts after we elect a nominee. It is not new that

primary candidates have different policy stances from each other or that we have some division within our party.

[TwilightZone]

53. If the candidates had all the same stances on all of the issues...

there wouldn't be much point in having primaries.

This is pretty much how it works. The candidates differentiate themselves on the few issues where they don't already agree (they agree on the majority of issues, represented by the party platform) by pointing out and detailing those differences during the primary process.

If you're looking for where most of the candidates stand on most of the issues, start with the party platform.

[Celerity]

83. Amy/Pete or Pete/Amy would make for a wonderful outcome for America and the world

They both showed up in spades at the debate and I think both project a clear vision as well.

[randr]

85. One of my main concerns is the state of our governing system in DC

is in disarray and will need a leader who know how to put it back together. Or a leader who knows how to inspire the needed people who would step up to help with this task.
The one thing we need to concentrate on is the need to rebuild the system from day one.

[brooklynite]

32. I disagree

Republicans campaign on simple messages and worry about details later. Voters don't want policy white papers.

[randr]

59. They took over once with a "contract for America"

[brooklynite]

71. None of the elements of which were discussed in detail

[randr]

72. Right, just simple statements that reflected the wants of their voters

[lapucelle]

36. What we don't need are decontextualized characterizations from Common Dreams

and truncated quotes from some random guy on twitter.

“It’s fascinating that the person who has a plan for everything has no plan for the single most consequential issue in this election in the minds of the American people across the board,” Mr. Biden said, addressing reporters on a cold, gray afternoon outside a union electrical trade center.
Sign Up for On Politics With Lisa Lerer

A spotlight on the people reshaping our politics. A conversation with voters across the country. And a guiding hand through the endless news cycle, telling you what you really need to know.

“And, you know, credibility matters. It matters. And the question that I think that Senator Warren is going to have to face, she’s going to have to tell the truth or the question will be raised about whether or not she’s going to be candid and honest with the American people,” he said.

He noted that she supports several ambitious proposals, including a tax on the wealth of the richest Americans, and said she should be pressed for details on how to implement them.

“The last thing the Democrats should be doing is playing Trump’s game, trying to con the American people to think this is easy,” Mr. Biden said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/us/politics/joe-biden-elizabeth-warren.html


While the comparison is unfortunate, Biden (and Buttigieg) are right in noting that E Warren needs to get in front of this narrative.

Given her thoroughness and thoughtfulness, Warren will walk us through a cogent accounting of the funding details on her terms when she is ready.

[George II]

38. Oh no, "Bernie Sanders Says Biden 'Is Sounding Like Donald Trump' on Medicare for All"

“I am disappointed, I have to say, in Joe, who is a friend of mine, really distorting what Medicare for All is about,” Sanders told the NYT Wednesday, adding, “And unfortunately, he is sounding like Donald Trump.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287204945

How does that strike you, hmmm?

[tonedevil]

47. That is exactly why...

neither Sanders nor Biden should be running. Their time was it no longer is.

[TidalWave46]

43. I stand with Biden on this one.

And he is correct.

By the way, it was the Sanders campaign who compared a Biden policy to a terrorist attack.

[BeckyDem]

46. He keeps sinking himself. Go for it.

[ChubbyStar]

68. YOUR OPINION

Bashing or insinuating that Warren and Bernie are deceptive is against the TOS. Like it or not.

[OldRed2450]

69. I think you're following me around trying to get me banned

All because you have a different view than I do. I'm here to defend my candidate just as you defend yours.

[ChubbyStar]

70. Sorry you are not that compelling

I happen to be interested in the subjects I post in, if you happen to be there well there you are. You are tearing down other candidates, that is not what DU is all about. Deal.

[Kurt V.]

52. strike three

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

81. Strike TWENTY-three!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[emulatorloo]

56. I'm thinking about ignoring threads that are sourced from pot stirrers like The Hill, Politico, and

CommonDreams. For different reasons, none of those sites really want Democrats to succeed.

Thanks for the post Herb, appreciate it.

[HerbChestnut]

73. No problem.

I knew some people would be upset by the source, but it doesn't take away from Biden's own words.

[emulatorloo]

75. I'm not "upset" by your source, I just think those three sites exist to stir up shit about Democrats

Hill and Politico are Republican funded, full of “anonymous sources” and false Democrats in Disarray narratives. CommonDreams uses similar tactics to insinuate all Dems are “Corrupt”.

At this point I feel like there is more noise that signal coming out of those publications, and I can’t think of any substantive discussion happening in any DU thread based on an article from those publications. Just a bunch of fighting.

Maybe just a personal quirk I guess. And of course I love Holly Otterbein’s stuff She’s doing great work.

Appreciate you, Herb

[Hoyt]

76. Biden has a point; but, yeah, I wouldn't compare them to trump, even if

the point is true.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

78. Somewhere between a figurative and literal translation.

Biden is going reality based in his campaign method, so you might not like his choice of words. There is after all a lot of people on the fence about it and all of it. Biden knows we need them very much and reality based is the right road. I mean would it seem better if he said look, we really must back off making promises that cannot be realistically delivered, isn't that what Trump does ? And isn't that it ?

[Celerity]

84. I do not like ANY of our candidates inferring ANY of our candidates are Trumpian cons or comparing

them to Trump and his games with the 'trying to con the American people' added in.

THAT needs to stop ASAP, no matter who is doing it. All these candidates need all the other candidates' supporters to vote for the winner come the general election, regardless of who the winner is.

[Joe941]

90. Biden should take this back and apologize.

[CentralMass]

105. Right. Sanders and Warren do not remotely sound like tRump on healthcare.

[LanternWaste]

98. This is troubling for Bernie.

Part XXV

[ecstatic]

92. The way I see it is, MFA is probably pipe dream but

It moves the goalpost, which is a great thing.

That being said, it still makes a lot of people nervous.

For example, look at what trump has done---karma is being delivered to his supporters at record pace. Farmers are losing everything as trump tries to force his policies into reality. The military is losing funds as he tries to force through his ridiculous border wall.

I worry that Bernie could potentially do something similar--stubbornly attempt to force through his policies, by any means necessary, because he's spent the past 50 years believing that his (and only his) ideas are correct.

I don't think Warren would, because she's smart and can absorb new information and make the necessary adjustments.

[LanternWaste]

100. Same choir pretending this is critical, and throwing it at the wall.

I suppose holding our own sacred cows to lower standards is much more convenient than consistency and rational thought.

[LakeArenal]

104. You kids quit bickering.

Everybody quit parsing everyone else’s words.
This is just want trolls, Trump and Russians want us to do.

TRUMP IS THE ENEMY. Focus please.

PS some of you know I love each everyone of you.

Edited to add: The worst thing anyone says on DU is rosy sunshine compared to the best thing the Dump has ever said.