Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Otto Lidenbrock

(581 posts)
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:32 PM Nov 2019

'We Should Pick the Low-Hanging Fruit First.' Bill Clinton Wades Into the Health Care Debate

Amid widening divisions in the Democratic Party over the future of health care policy, former President Bill Clinton waded into the debate, saying the nation is “at a crossroads” on health care reform and “we should pick the low hanging fruit first.”

“The problem is the system is still entirely too complex,” Clinton told told David Agus, CEO of the Lawrence J. Ellison Institute for Transformative Medicine of USC, at the TIME 100 Health Summit in New York City on Thursday. “The premiums are going up way more than wages are going up, and the co-pays and deductibles and the drug prices are going up even more than the premiums. So, we’re kind of at a crossroads now.”

“We should pick the low-hanging fruit first,” Clinton continued. “I think we need to pass a public option and go back to encouraging all-payer systems in states so that you can have some control over the costs and keep it as simple as possible.”


https://time.com/5703769/bill-clinton-time-100-health-summit-healthcare/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
108 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
'We Should Pick the Low-Hanging Fruit First.' Bill Clinton Wades Into the Health Care Debate (Original Post) Otto Lidenbrock Nov 2019 OP
Mr. President ritapria Nov 2019 #1
Actually, the vast majority of those countries with Universal Health Care do not have single payer, ehrnst Nov 2019 #2
Truth to power! George II Nov 2019 #6
+1 betsuni Nov 2019 #22
Good post. Canada actually allowed some provinces to opt out of national healthcare. Blue_true Nov 2019 #42
Some faithful take the word of the messiah without critical thinking PhoenixDem Nov 2019 #104
With or without the consistent level of GOP obstructionism as experienced in the US? LanternWaste Nov 2019 #3
Indeed. ehrnst Nov 2019 #4
He's speaking about the route to get there, not the final destination. And.... George II Nov 2019 #5
Why should only the elderly get the simplicity of single payer? IronLionZion Nov 2019 #10
"Everyone" is a much, much larger group than the elderly. ehrnst Nov 2019 #15
It's irrelevant if it can't pass. The ACA took a massive effort to get through. themaguffin Nov 2019 #20
It's irrelevant if it can't pass. The ACA took a massive effort to get through. themaguffin Nov 2019 #21
Warren's latest health plan is causing concerns for some centrist, moderate and rural Democrats Gothmog Nov 2019 #105
I'm hoping that she'll listen to the experts and modify her plan with their data. (nt) ehrnst Nov 2019 #108
And when the fascists will do everything to poison that fruit? BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #7
Running on M4A and losing would only help the fascists. Winning isn't everything it is the only Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #9
And appeasing fascists definitely doesn't work. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #13
So supporting anything other than M4A in two years time equals "appeasing fascists?" ehrnst Nov 2019 #14
Obamacare is really just a Heritage Foundation plan warmed over & rebranded. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #25
So you're going to avoid answering the question, and persist in the false dillema fallacy. ehrnst Nov 2019 #26
What's false? And close only counts in horseshoes & hand grenades. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #27
Keep on posting evasions. ehrnst Nov 2019 #32
I note that you didn't actually point out any inaccuracies. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #63
This is inaccurate: betsuni Nov 2019 #67
Yep. That's a straw man someone else set up and attacked that I had no reason to "defend." ehrnst Nov 2019 #69
I pointed out that you attacked a straw man. I just didn't bother to defend it for you. ehrnst Nov 2019 #68
If "Obamacare" is really just a Heritage Foundation plan, why would "the fascists" betsuni Nov 2019 #65
Because Obama sponsored it. Nothing more. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #66
Why do you think Democrats touted it as a Republican plan? betsuni Nov 2019 #70
.... ehrnst Nov 2019 #73
I can only conclude BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #86
The only way is for them to have less power treestar Nov 2019 #89
If we lose the election because we overreached, we get nothing. Blue_true Nov 2019 #44
No, Russian interference & the Left believing RW bullshit about HRC got us Trump. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #59
Yes. Farmer-Rick Nov 2019 #76
I rather clearly pointed to an "all or nothing" mindset. Blue_true Nov 2019 #98
Um... did you even read what you wrote there? BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #99
Compromise isn't the dirty word that you want it to be. Blue_true Nov 2019 #100
Compromise with fascists & corporate oligarchs certainly is. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #103
There would be no ACA with that attitude treestar Nov 2019 #88
We could have had *REAL* universal healthcare. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #91
President Obama should have taken Canada's approach. Blue_true Nov 2019 #101
I think president Obama treestar Nov 2019 #107
Bill is right. We need to encourage states to develop single payer plans. Blue_true Nov 2019 #43
Fantastic idea... check077 Nov 2019 #56
Oh, right. 50 different systems w/corps sponsoring a race to the bottom. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #64
You are absolutely wrong. Blue_true Nov 2019 #93
How States Have Sabotaged Obamacare BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #94
You keep pointing to what red states have done. Blue_true Nov 2019 #96
And it opens the door to the real destruction of healthcare in this country. BuffaloJackalope Nov 2019 #97
Sorry, but maybe when people suffer because of the facists that get elected, they will prevent Blue_true Nov 2019 #102
Ins. across state lines would make things worse, because state regulations keep abuse in check. ehrnst Nov 2019 #74
I disagree. State regulators are adding to the problem now, particularly in red states and Blue_true Nov 2019 #95
The PARADIGM! Now there's a specific, clear description of what's you think is wrong... ehrnst Nov 2019 #71
Post removed Post removed Nov 2019 #8
Well said loyalsister Nov 2019 #11
Well said? sheshe2 Nov 2019 #41
+1 CentralMass Nov 2019 #51
"crawl back under whatever place he was hiding?" ehrnst Nov 2019 #16
Do you deny that Bill Clinton has deliberately kept out of the limelight ? Fiendish Thingy Nov 2019 #17
"crawl back under whatever place he was hiding" ehrnst Nov 2019 #18
You said: sheshe2 Nov 2019 #23
It's pretty obvious to everyone, and was intended to be. ehrnst Nov 2019 #24
It was perfectly clear to me. sheshe2 Nov 2019 #46
Apparently it was perfectly clear to more than just you. NurseJackie Nov 2019 #60
Me too. betsuni Nov 2019 #62
Well, he HASN'T kept out of the limelight. George II Nov 2019 #37
No one puts Bill in a corner. sheshe2 Nov 2019 #40
I suggest you're wrong, Fiendish. And, what's up with Cha Nov 2019 #38
He has had a pretty robust public presence. Blue_true Nov 2019 #45
Yeah, if there's anything that Bill Clinton is known for is being wimpy on health care initiatives. ehrnst Nov 2019 #19
" America's greatest moments have not come from "picking low hanging fruit" " myohmy2 Nov 2019 #28
Yes, improving on the ACA, which was the mandate for the 2018 blue wave ehrnst Nov 2019 #30
Put Bold on Hold; real is the deal! UncleNoel Nov 2019 #36
I see what you mean... myohmy2 Nov 2019 #75
Actually the fruit at the bottom is ready to pick. sheshe2 Nov 2019 #47
Post removed Post removed Nov 2019 #48
I am with Obama. sheshe2 Nov 2019 #49
Yes, bashing Obama seems to be a sport designed to show just how "progressive" one is. ehrnst Nov 2019 #72
I guess it didn't take "bold new leadership" to both balance the budget and eliminate the deficit? George II Nov 2019 #33
I think your post is insulting, uncalled for in terms of the debate, and clearly breaks , emmaverybo Nov 2019 #34
Predictable response. BeckyDem Nov 2019 #12
Post removed Post removed Nov 2019 #29
So you said it anyway, ddr007 Hekate Nov 2019 #31
Not clever either. NurseJackie Nov 2019 #61
What an appalling thread this turned out to be Hekate Nov 2019 #35
Seriously. betsuni Nov 2019 #39
Thank you President Clinton. oasis Nov 2019 #50
Yes, thank you Mr. President!! aeromanKC Nov 2019 #52
How about we should make the case for KPN Nov 2019 #53
Either you have the votes or you don't. betsuni Nov 2019 #54
Who said anything about doing nothing? Talk about we should set our sights on low hanging fruit KPN Nov 2019 #79
It's not a concession; it's a good strategy to accomplish meaningful change right away as we work LongtimeAZDem Nov 2019 #81
Right ... in other words, accept it. KPN Nov 2019 #82
No, not "accept it"; accomplish what you can while working for better. It's the mature approach. LongtimeAZDem Nov 2019 #83
Don't offend me. KPN Nov 2019 #84
Your post was dismissive, and misrepresented my position. LongtimeAZDem Nov 2019 #85
A lot of this kind of thinking might apply to self improvement treestar Nov 2019 #78
That's your opinion. Not mine -- I don't buy it. The right is not simply or just KPN Nov 2019 #80
So what are we supposed to do? treestar Nov 2019 #87
That's not what low-hanging fruit means. I have an apple tree & and a bum knee. The high fruit .... Hekate Nov 2019 #90
+1 LongtimeAZDem Nov 2019 #92
Bill Clinton supported Single Payer Eric J in MN Nov 2019 #55
We don't need to be inspired; we need to actually accomplish things that matter. LongtimeAZDem Nov 2019 #77
I love how people seem to miss that little word "first" Hav Nov 2019 #57
+1 betsuni Nov 2019 #58
Bill Clinton is as politically astute as ever PhoenixDem Nov 2019 #106
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
1. Mr. President
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:39 PM
Nov 2019

Going to Single Payer " keeps it simple as possible " ………….All of the major countries in this world have solved the puzzle...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
2. Actually, the vast majority of those countries with Universal Health Care do not have single payer,
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:43 PM
Nov 2019

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

but various combinations of payers/funding mechanisms, in individualized systems that were implemented in very different timeframes, at very different times in history, with very different demographics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

Just because something sounds simple doesn't mean it is.

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" was a simple answer, and it was successfully used by the GOP to discredit Obama along with all information concerning the ACA to their base.

Think about it - Social Security didn't start out covering what it does now. Neither did any of the UHC in other countries that developed it, often over multiple decades, like Canada.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
42. Good post. Canada actually allowed some provinces to opt out of national healthcare.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:47 PM
Nov 2019

Once those provinces saw how bad their results were relative to other provinces, Canada arrived at a national healthcare system.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PhoenixDem

(581 posts)
104. Some faithful take the word of the messiah without critical thinking
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:06 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
3. With or without the consistent level of GOP obstructionism as experienced in the US?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:44 PM
Nov 2019

Method and means are wonderful concepts, but both rely on political climate.

Pres Obama realized this simple concept. I hope others do as well... else they are setting themselves up for deep disappointments.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
5. He's speaking about the route to get there, not the final destination. And....
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:50 PM
Nov 2019

...all of the major countries in this world have NOT solved the puzzle. Far from it.

Each country still has pieces of the puzzle missing, even Canada who initially addressed "universal health care" more than 50 years ago.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

IronLionZion

(45,258 posts)
10. Why should only the elderly get the simplicity of single payer?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:16 PM
Nov 2019

If boomers want millennials to suffer under socialism, then it's time for young people to get Medicare.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
15. "Everyone" is a much, much larger group than the elderly.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:51 PM
Nov 2019

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:23 PM - Edit history (1)

One of the mechanisms by which Medicare is funded is that way more people pay into it than utilize it, just like Social Security.

It's not about "simplicity," or "the elderly hogging all the good stuff." It was created because private insurance wouldn't cover them, ro would charge a fortune to cover them, because statistical and actuarial calculations meant that they would incur more costs. And they do. (and no, before you start, I'm not defending the private insurance industry, but I'm pointing out the way that all health care costs are predicted and accounted for, anywhere on the planet.)

See also, "Why do the handicapped get the good parking spaces?" "Why did the rural areas get so much of the government investment in electrical and water infrastructure in the New Deal?" "Why are the services of St. Judes' available only to cancer patients who are children?"

Most nations with universal health care do not use single payer, but a variety of funding mechanisms and administrative measures. Especially those with large populations - and very few are as large as the US.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

themaguffin

(3,805 posts)
20. It's irrelevant if it can't pass. The ACA took a massive effort to get through.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:29 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

themaguffin

(3,805 posts)
21. It's irrelevant if it can't pass. The ACA took a massive effort to get through.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:29 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
105. Warren's latest health plan is causing concerns for some centrist, moderate and rural Democrats
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:08 PM
Nov 2019

I and other true Democrats have been working hard to turn Texas blue. We hope to pick up six congressional seats in addition to the two seats we flipped in 2018. We have a chance to defeat Cornyn in the Senate. The Democrats picked up 12 seats in the Texas House and need 9 more to take control of the Texas House prior to the next redistricting session. If Biden is the nominee, Texas will be a battleground state. If Warren or sanders is the nominee. Texas will not be a battle ground state and we can forget about keeping the two seats that we flipped in 2018

Speaker Pelosi is worried about losing control of the House with a weak top of the ballot ticket with a program that will kill down ballot candidates
.




The most-vulnerable Democrat in Colorado’s state House, Bri Buentello, is dreading door-knocking in her rural district now that Elizabeth Warren dropped her massive “Medicare for All” plan into the presidential arena.
“This is going to cause down-ballot damage in swing districts and states if she’s the nominee,” Buentello says, describing how her Pueblo-area constituents — who voted overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in 2016 — were already echoing criticisms about a giant, one-size-fits-all big government run plan that cancels private health insurance and raises taxes.
Story Continued Below

The fear of blowback is indicative of the broad and largely negative response to Warren’s proposal from centrist, moderate and rural Democrats — many of whom, like Buentello, back Joe Biden in the primary. And it exposes the fault line between those who fret about winning voters in the center and the activist progressive base propelling Warren to the front of the Democratic pack.

The long-awaited plan to raise the $20.5 trillion she says is needed to pay for single-payer health care in America is Warren’s attempt to answer critics after weeks of questions from rival candidates about the cost of her proposal and the prospect of higher taxes. Warren promised, as she has in the past, that "not one penny in middle-class tax increases” is necessary to finance the effort.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
108. I'm hoping that she'll listen to the experts and modify her plan with their data. (nt)
Wed Nov 20, 2019, 08:05 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
7. And when the fascists will do everything to poison that fruit?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:56 PM
Nov 2019

Bill should know better than anyone how rocky the well worn path can be. We need a change in the paradigm.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
9. Running on M4A and losing would only help the fascists. Winning isn't everything it is the only
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:15 PM
Nov 2019

thing that matters.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
13. And appeasing fascists definitely doesn't work.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:18 PM
Nov 2019

What fails is half measures.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
14. So supporting anything other than M4A in two years time equals "appeasing fascists?"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:13 PM
Nov 2019

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

False dilemma, anyone?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
25. Obamacare is really just a Heritage Foundation plan warmed over & rebranded.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:14 PM
Nov 2019

And the fascists still moved Heaven & Earth to water it down, make it ineffective, defeat it & make it fail. And in that they've largely succeeded.

What is taking the fascists plan to kill universal health care - then allowing it to fail - other than appeasing fascists?

Not to say that what Clinton & Obama attempted to do was without merit. But they intentionally started with a weaker hand for the express purpose of avoiding pissing off the very fascists that have sought to crucify them from the outset. These are the same people who are now trying to crucify Bernie, AOC, Warren & every other liberal/progressive trying to improve the lives of the American people rather than the oligarchs & the corporations.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
26. So you're going to avoid answering the question, and persist in the false dillema fallacy.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:16 PM
Nov 2019

Gotcha.

And on top of that, you're trashing the ACA, which is the farthest we've ever gotten down the road to Universal Health Care.

Thank you on behalf of the millions who benefitted from it.



BTW - Obama wasn't even going to try for the ACA, but Pelosi told him she could do it, and she delivered.

Yeah, it wasn't a Ferrari, but it had four wheels and it ran. You prefer that those who would have died without it didn't get it because it wasn't a Ferarri?

Ted Kennedy lost the chance at anything close to it when he walked away from the table with Nixon, because Democrats told him "single payer or nothing."

Nixon put forth a plan that was to the left of the ACA. Kennedy said it was one of the biggest regrets of his career, because if he had come to some kind of compromise, we might have something now that is much, much closer to what the other industrialized countries have.

I'm glad that Obama and Pelosi learned from that, even if others refused to.

The ego of some politicians is a stubborn thing, and many, many have paid the price for it.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
27. What's false? And close only counts in horseshoes & hand grenades.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:23 PM
Nov 2019

What you're doing is comparing the ACA to an explosive waiting to go off & destroy everything around it. Which it really is.

gotcha

With the ACA failing in place - which is exactly where the fascists seem to be going - it'll be enormously more difficult to get real universal health care passed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
32. Keep on posting evasions.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:36 PM
Nov 2019

Easier than actually answering the question, or admitting the fallacy.

And coming up with more, including attacking a straw man.

Gotcha.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
63. I note that you didn't actually point out any inaccuracies.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:18 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
67. This is inaccurate:
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:17 AM
Nov 2019

""What you're doing is comparing the ACA to an explosion waiting to go off & destroy everything around it."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
69. Yep. That's a straw man someone else set up and attacked that I had no reason to "defend."
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:20 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
68. I pointed out that you attacked a straw man. I just didn't bother to defend it for you.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:19 AM
Nov 2019

Contrary to what you think, your fallacy is not my responsibility to take part in. If you have an actual response that isn't simply an attempt to misrepresent what I said, and derail the discussion to get me on the defensive, then I'm happy to respond. Otherwise, I'm just going to point out your fallacy and not take the bait.

Is that clearer?

If not:

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

But if you still need it explained further, see:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=351063




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
65. If "Obamacare" is really just a Heritage Foundation plan, why would "the fascists"
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:52 AM
Nov 2019

move heaven & earth to water it down, make it ineffective, defeat it & make it fail? Why didn't any Republican vote for it?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
66. Because Obama sponsored it. Nothing more.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:00 AM
Nov 2019

They set out to make him a one-term president, and ensure that all of his policy proposals failed.

Did you really not notice that tactic?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
70. Why do you think Democrats touted it as a Republican plan?
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:25 AM
Nov 2019

The Heritage Foundation insists they had nothing to do with the mandate, nothing to do with the ACA. Did you really not notice that tactic?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
86. I can only conclude
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:35 PM
Nov 2019

That you weren't paying attention during that debate. I'm not your history teacher.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
89. The only way is for them to have less power
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:42 PM
Nov 2019

and we are getting nowhere near where you want to be. What voters are going to make Congress that liberal? It isn't the half measures, as you call them. It's even getting them which is a challenge due to rural voters and the system giving them more power. And that is going to get worse. Until you convince them to send Senators who will vote for it, it's not happening, no matter who is President, and thus it is completely irrelevant how far left they are.

Bernie would not get it out of the Senate. Joe will not get it out of the Senate. Not until red states are less red.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
44. If we lose the election because we overreached, we get nothing.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:20 AM
Nov 2019

At least we have a chance if we win office. The "all or nothing" mindset is what got us Trump in 2016.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
59. No, Russian interference & the Left believing RW bullshit about HRC got us Trump.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:06 AM
Nov 2019

Repeatedly trying to compromise with people that want to murder us got us Trump

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
98. I rather clearly pointed to an "all or nothing" mindset.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:33 PM
Nov 2019

That doesn't involve compromising with republicans, it involves everyone who claims to be a progressive acting like that in the voting booth to stop a monster. People can't vote third party or write in when only Trump or the democratic nominee are the only two people that can win.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
99. Um... did you even read what you wrote there?
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:51 PM
Nov 2019

Either our leaders stand for something ("all or nothing" in your narrow characterization) .... or they compromise.

Bill Clinton, Barrack Obama, & Hillary Clinton aren't squeaky clean here. They've comprised all over the place on universal health care. We've been talking about it for going on 30 yrs and we're still nowhere near getting it. You seem to be perfectly happy with that situation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
100. Compromise isn't the dirty word that you want it to be.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:00 PM
Nov 2019

FDR and LBJ had to compromise a lot, they got many things done (though LBJ greatly outdistances FDR IMO, because LBJ included POC as integral parts of the beneficial change). Anyone that refuses to do principled compromise will fail to get anything done. Can we compromise with today's republicans, no, not given what they are as a party, in that regard, I agree with you that we need to work around them, a blue state healthcare compact between many blue states is an example of how to work around their obstructionism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
103. Compromise with fascists & corporate oligarchs certainly is.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:34 PM
Nov 2019

If 50 million Americans uninsured is a problem, 30 million Americans uninsured & growing is not a solution.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
88. There would be no ACA with that attitude
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:40 PM
Nov 2019

At least now we have something. And we can get chances to build on that. Good grief. If we lose, we get nothing. Even if we win, we will not get M4A. Not until rural people start being liberal. When will that happen?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
91. We could have had *REAL* universal healthcare.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 04:15 PM
Nov 2019

The point is Obama didn't even try. He started with the RW compromise from Bill Clinton's healthcare push.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
101. President Obama should have taken Canada's approach.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:09 PM
Nov 2019

Pass legistlation that gave power to enter national health insurance to the provinces. The blue provinces immediately entered, the red ones didn't until they recognized how screwed they were.

MFA will be an attempt at a nationalized healthcare plan. I promise you that red states will go to Court to damage it as they have the ACA. My approach would be to get states like the West Coast states, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, Virginia, New Jersey, Monnesota, New Mexico that are solidly blue to enter into a cross state insurance compact. Such a compact would cover around 100 million people. Fuck the red states, they would not be able to stop the compact. States like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Hampshire, Vermont could enter once they get rid of republican governors, AGs and legislatures.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
107. I think president Obama
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 11:23 PM
Nov 2019

Would have been fine with that. But the congress he had would not pass it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
43. Bill is right. We need to encourage states to develop single payer plans.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:56 PM
Nov 2019

I would go even farther and pass a law that allows states to work across state boundaries when buying healthcare for their populace. If states with relatively fit populations and which are blue could set up a multi-state buying pool, we will see red states come to their senses pretty fast after their rates explode upward after losing the lifeline of blue state health insurance buyers. I would love to see all the blue states join in a multi-state single payer plan and invite in only health insurers that offer plans that meet a high standard.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

check077

(16 posts)
56. Fantastic idea...
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 04:23 AM
Nov 2019

Wow! This really could work.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
64. Oh, right. 50 different systems w/corps sponsoring a race to the bottom.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:29 AM
Nov 2019

You do know that allowing the purchase on health insurance across state lines is a Republican idea, right? It's designed to help insurance corp to make profits off of shit policies nationwide instead of just the states the RW controls.

If you're looking for a compact among the states, the National Popular Vote is further along.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
93. You are absolutely wrong.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 06:57 PM
Nov 2019

The plan would allow states that want top quality healthcare for their citizens to band together to get that. They would have the option of dealing only with insurance companies that share that objective, they could even set up their OWN insurance company (the best choice). The plan would put massive pressure on red states and states like Florida and Georgia, their citizens would likely finally put republicans out of office for good.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
94. How States Have Sabotaged Obamacare
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:18 PM
Nov 2019
https://slate.com/business/2016/10/how-states-have-sabotaged-obamacare.html

Rural Hospitals Are Shutting Down in States That Didn’t Expand Medicaid
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/07/rural-hospitals-are-shutting-down-in-states-that-didnt-expand-medicaid/

Residents suffer as Mississippi and 13 other states debate Medicaid expansion
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/residents-suffer-mississippi-13-other-states-debate-medicaid-expansion-n1075661

15,000 Americans Died So Republican Governors Could Stick It to Obama
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a28472403/15000-americans-died-medicaid-expansion-obamacare/


Medicare For All means *F O R . A L L*. The GOP opposes this. Do you?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
96. You keep pointing to what red states have done.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:24 PM
Nov 2019

I made it plainly clear that they would be removed from the picture by the blue state insurance compact. It won't matter what red states do, since the compact would not be federal, there isn't shit they could do about it. The idea would prevent red state legislatures from sabotaging high quality healthcare for blue state citizens, like they now do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
97. And it opens the door to the real destruction of healthcare in this country.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:33 PM
Nov 2019

I don't think the children in Mississippi should suffer & die just because the fascists in charge of that state don't think of them as human. Your proposed compact would do the same.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
102. Sorry, but maybe when people suffer because of the facists that get elected, they will prevent
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:15 PM
Nov 2019

facists from getting elected by voting. At some point, people need to take responsibility into their own hands. We can't keep letting republicans kneecap health insurance in blue states, because I can assure you, people in blue states are dying NOW because of red state republican obstruction.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
74. Ins. across state lines would make things worse, because state regulations keep abuse in check.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:11 AM
Nov 2019
Historically, states have regulated health insurance. To sell coverage in a state, an insurance company has to obtain a license in that state and follow all of its rules. State rules varied quite a bit. Some required insurers to cover a broad set of benefits, while others mandated more narrow coverage. A handful of states—Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Vermont—required insurers to sell coverage to people with preexisting health conditions, but the vast majority did not.

The ACA included a comprehensive set of insurance market reforms, primarily affecting the individual and small business insurance markets. Beginning in 2014, the law required insurers to guarantee coverage regardless of preexisting conditions, prohibited rate surcharges for people who are sick, limited variation in premiums due to age, and established a minimum benefit package.

As a technical matter, the ACA didn’t bypass state regulation of insurance. Rather, it encouraged states to build these new rules into their laws, with the federal government stepping in to enforce the rules if states didn’t act. But the practical effect of the ACA is greater uniformity in insurance rules across the country.

Repealing the ACA—as Trump has proposed—would return insurance markets to their pre-ACA state, leaving people with preexisting conditions without access to insurance in the vast majority of states.

Allowing insurers to then sell plans across state lines would actually worsen access to coverage for people with preexisting conditions, since insurers would have a strong incentive to set up shop in states with minimal regulation, undermining the ability of other states to enact stricter rules.

Let’s say Delaware wanted to attract health insurance jobs to its state with industry-friendly regulations—for example, no required benefits (such as preventive services or maternity care) and no restrictions on medical underwriting (meaning people with preexisting conditions could be denied coverage). Insurers operating out of Delaware could offer cheaper health insurance by cherry-picking healthy enrollees from other states. If New York tried to require insurers to expand access to people with preexisting conditions or mandate specific benefits, its carriers would get stuck with disproportionately sick people.


https://newsatjama.jama.com/2016/10/19/jama-forum-those-pesky-lines-around-states/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
95. I disagree. State regulators are adding to the problem now, particularly in red states and
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:19 PM
Nov 2019

states like Florida and Georgia. A compact of blue states with insurance across their state lines will have regulatory oversight, their insurance commissioners won't go away and would most likely work in unison with their counterparts from other states to insure that all companies offering insurance to the compact offer full coverage, zero or very low deductible policies.

In addition, because they would account for a massive number of people, the compact could set up it's OWN insurance company and say goodbye to private insurance. Citizens would pay the small premiums via state income taxes (which is not subject to federal preview, if someone sues, the highest Court is the State Supreme Court in the state levying the tax).

The compact run insurance company would do everything a private insurance company does (in many cases, refuse to do after taking premiums) and the compact could also negotiate with drug companies over drug prices for it's covered citizens.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
11. Well said
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:58 PM
Nov 2019

I appreciate that his political acumen prevented a 2nd term for Bush the elder, but his contribution to economic oppression as SOP has done a lot of damage. The boomers and older Gen Xers had a good decade in the 90s and I'm sure that there are many who are grateful. But the rest of the country is suffering because of the entrenchment of neoliberal politics and the reluctance to be bold in our policies. People deserve better.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sheshe2

(83,337 posts)
41. Well said?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:38 PM
Nov 2019

They said our Democratic President, William Clinton:

Bill can take his not-so-pragmatic neoliberal corporatism and crawl back under whatever place he was hiding.


That IMHO is not well said at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
16. "crawl back under whatever place he was hiding?"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:00 PM
Nov 2019

Are you sure you're on the right board?

On DU, that kind of trashing is usually aimed at Republicans...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,367 posts)
17. Do you deny that Bill Clinton has deliberately kept out of the limelight ?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:09 PM
Nov 2019

Since the 2016 election, Bill Clinton has mostly stayed out of public view.

I was suggesting he keep it that way.

That's not trashing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
18. "crawl back under whatever place he was hiding"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:15 PM
Nov 2019

Is trashing. It's insulting.

Don't try to be coy. Perhaps that makes for a good story on another board, not here, puh-lease..

If you can't just own it when you're called out on it, then you might want to rethink why you're even posting that silliness here, where you're going to get called out.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,337 posts)
23. You said:
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:47 PM
Nov 2019

Post#8

"crawl back under whatever place he was hiding"

That is trashing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
24. It's pretty obvious to everyone, and was intended to be.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:13 PM
Nov 2019

Then playing coy, like it's Jr High...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,337 posts)
46. It was perfectly clear to me.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:36 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
60. Apparently it was perfectly clear to more than just you.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:11 AM
Nov 2019

Ugh.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
37. Well, he HASN'T kept out of the limelight.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:02 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,337 posts)
40. No one puts Bill in a corner.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:27 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,905 posts)
38. I suggest you're wrong, Fiendish. And, what's up with
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:07 PM
Nov 2019

that "..crawl back under a rock.." Really?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
45. He has had a pretty robust public presence.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:24 AM
Nov 2019

Mostly working on Clinton iniative related issues. The guy is a master tactician, it was said that his wife's campaign team ignored his input in 2016. He turned out to be dead on about needing more resources and campaigning in the Midwest.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
19. Yeah, if there's anything that Bill Clinton is known for is being wimpy on health care initiatives.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:24 PM
Nov 2019
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/our-work/clinton-health-access-initiative

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/our-work/clinton-health-access-initiative/programs/hivaids

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/clinton-global-initiative/commitments/women-girls




Bill Clinton (along with Hillary) has actually been a lot more successful at actually achieving getting affordable health care to more people than others (who have been on capitol hill just as long or longer) who claim to own health care access as their very own invention, and trademarked political brand, while only having ever achieved creating talking points about it.

That could be at that root of some of the resentment that is aimed at them both. But you tell me.



Seems that Bill, Hillary and Obama know more about the topic than most other people. At least if you measure actual results.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

myohmy2

(3,118 posts)
28. " America's greatest moments have not come from "picking low hanging fruit" "
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:24 PM
Nov 2019

...especially when you consider that the 'low hanging fruit' is rotten to the core...

...isn't it strange how people with the best of everything can deny so many the basics?

"...it's time for bold new leadership."

...it's past time for bold new leadership...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
30. Yes, improving on the ACA, which was the mandate for the 2018 blue wave
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:30 PM
Nov 2019

...is "rotten to the core."

...and our leadership is not bold....

...maybe you haven't been listening to the news?...

....Are you sure you're on the right board....

... ...

... ....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UncleNoel

(864 posts)
36. Put Bold on Hold; real is the deal!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:50 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

myohmy2

(3,118 posts)
75. I see what you mean...
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:28 AM
Nov 2019

…"rotten to the core" does sound a little extreme...

...strike "rotten" and replace it with "half-rotten"...


"....Are you sure you're on the right board...."

...now you've got me worried...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,337 posts)
47. Actually the fruit at the bottom is ready to pick.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:00 AM
Nov 2019
myohmy2
28. " America's greatest moments have not come from "picking low hanging fruit" "

...especially when you consider that the 'low hanging fruit' is rotten to the core...

...isn't it strange how people with the best of everything can deny so many the basics?

"...it's time for bold new leadership."

...it's past time for bold new leadership...


It has blossomed and ripened. It is succulent. You have to work your way to the top and that takes time, patience and planning. You want to toss away the ripe fruit for that at the top that may never ripen.

...isn't it strange how people with the best of everything can deny so many the basics?


I don't have the best of everything. No one does. I most certainly do not want to deny anyone anything and to say that anyone does is contemtable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to sheshe2 (Reply #47)

 

sheshe2

(83,337 posts)
49. I am with Obama.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:57 AM
Nov 2019
President Obama said that the average American doesn't think we have to completely tear down the system and remake it


The other ass?
"Says the man who can afford his family's health care and mortgage and rent and retirement and doesn't have to worry about making a living for the rest of his life because ex-presidents will always get paid to give speeches."


They can bite me.

Sorry. Late and I have to go.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
72. Yes, bashing Obama seems to be a sport designed to show just how "progressive" one is.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:49 AM
Nov 2019

For some reason.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
33. I guess it didn't take "bold new leadership" to both balance the budget and eliminate the deficit?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:37 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
34. I think your post is insulting, uncalled for in terms of the debate, and clearly breaks ,
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:39 PM
Nov 2019

DU rules. I am simply not an alerter, but I do support rules against trashing Dems and your post
savages Bill Clinton with its “crawl back under...” line. Offensive perhaps unintentionally so. As I said, I don’t tend to alert, have not in this case, but quite clearly your post crosses the line don’t you think?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)

 

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
31. So you said it anyway, ddr007
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:35 PM
Nov 2019

Not classy at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
61. Not clever either.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:11 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
35. What an appalling thread this turned out to be
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:45 PM
Nov 2019

Who are all the people who don't know Democratic history?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
39. Seriously.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:26 PM
Nov 2019

History began in 2015 (except for honorable mention of the '30s and '60s).

I still don't know what these "entrenched neoliberal policies" are that Democrats supposedly have. Yesterday I saw someone talk about the DLC as if it still existed. They believe Obama took out the public option before ACA talks even began. Corrupt Republican obstructionism and no-compromise politics as war is never mentioned. Everything they think about Democrats is wrong. Shame on sources that spread this disinformation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oasis

(49,151 posts)
50. Thank you President Clinton.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:09 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aeromanKC

(3,307 posts)
52. Yes, thank you Mr. President!!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:24 AM
Nov 2019

Actually, that was the plan all along. Unfortunately, the public option was taken off the table the first time, but it was then supposed to be added as we tweaked the ACA after it passed. It is now THAT time!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,587 posts)
53. How about we should make the case for
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:39 AM
Nov 2019

single payer and get the closest thing we can to it. Making the case for low hanging fruit gets us the fruit that’s already lying on the ground. It gets us something that’s not much better — certainly not enough better — than what we’ve got.. Picking low hanging fruit is doing things the easiest way. I’m done with that. We won’t get MFA or even single payer of any form over the next 5 years, but we’ll get a hell of a lot closer to it if that’s what we aim for. That means putting our sights directly on it, not something nearby or near it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
54. Either you have the votes or you don't.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:53 AM
Nov 2019

"If we get a good public option it could lead to single payer and that's the best way to reach single payer. Saying you'll do nothing until you get single payer is a sure way never to get it." Similar situation now.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,587 posts)
79. Who said anything about doing nothing? Talk about we should set our sights on low hanging fruit
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 11:30 AM
Nov 2019

is a concession strategy from the get go. It's a strategy that guarantees we'll never get there. We will never get to single payer of we don't talk about it -- a lot! It makes good sense and isn't a radical idea except here in the USA because we allow it to be portrayed as radical by shying away from it. Hell, we are in essence calling it a radical idea with statements like what we've heard from three past leaders the past several days alone! Especially to the media!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
81. It's not a concession; it's a good strategy to accomplish meaningful change right away as we work
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:04 PM
Nov 2019

towards more comprehensive solutions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,587 posts)
82. Right ... in other words, accept it.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:13 PM
Nov 2019

Nope -- been doing that way too long. Definitely not going to accept any view I don't buy during a primary.

Sorry, but that's the way I feel.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
83. No, not "accept it"; accomplish what you can while working for better. It's the mature approach.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:16 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
85. Your post was dismissive, and misrepresented my position.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:20 PM
Nov 2019

Nevertheless, I apologize.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
78. A lot of this kind of thinking might apply to self improvement
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:52 AM
Nov 2019

and motivational aspect - the "I can do it" thing that tells you to aim for the stars.

But in politics, it does not apply. Governing is about people getting along with enough peace to be able to make a good life for themselves. The other people are involved, plain and simple. So it is about getting along with them. The US does a great job, and with a lot of diversity. The right is particularly intransigent at this time. Our being intransigent too means nothing will change.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,587 posts)
80. That's your opinion. Not mine -- I don't buy it. The right is not simply or just
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:02 PM
Nov 2019

"particularly intransigent at this time." They've been deliberately as well as purposefully intransigent for over a decade; they've also been working a long standing plan to entrench themselves as the sole executors, legislators and judiciary of the entire nation by defeating Dems for even longer. Never giving an inch is a part and parcel of that strategy -- we see it on virtually every front by the GOP. They give an inch only when there is no longer any possible alternative.

Us? Well, we've got people saying things like "we have to get the votes first" and us "being intransigent too means nothing will change". Translation: let's cut out the talk about MFA and single payer! Geesh -- talk about intransigent.

Look, all I'm saying is there are a majority of Democrats including democrat leaning millennials who welcome and applaud the open discussion about the virtues and means for MFA or single payer. That's what they want to hear coming from the party they belong to or lean toward. Telling them it's unrealistic and equates to "intransigence" and defeat is itself a defeatist posture, especially given the broad -- if not pervasive -- and now decades long concern about the role and influence of money/capital/corporations in politics and and therefore governance overall. Translation: stick with the broken system that we've been telling you to stick with now for a decade or so because it's reality.

Some of us are frustrated ... and some of us have been for 40+ years. We get that we have to win the election. If enough Dems are confident in a candidate who supports MFA or another form of single payer, then I'm confident we can win in 2020. If not, we'll have a candidate who talks about a go slow, be realistic and reasonable approach. That's fine ... but listening to past leaders tell the media that Dems should stop talking about single payer in the primary is a monumental turn off in my view. Telling us we can't after a history of relative failure or decline on the campaign finance, labor and economic welfare policy fronts is getting old.

Sorry. That's how I feel about this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
87. So what are we supposed to do?
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:39 PM
Nov 2019

Just let them win? You would think our candidate winning would be at least better - whether they are for Medicare for All or Single Payer or improving Obamacare is neither here nor there, since none of it will happen. At least we can avoid a completely right-wing court, more wars and other horrors. Our system gives them an advantage. They can shut down the government, and they don't care. They will have more and more of an advantage that the EC gives them as more and more people live in blue areas.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
90. That's not what low-hanging fruit means. I have an apple tree & and a bum knee. The high fruit ....
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:25 PM
Nov 2019

...is never going to get picked this year, because I can't reach it and I am hobbled by this damn knee.
However the low-hanging fruit has been picked, washed, and used.

The stuff on the ground is called groundfall and generally is damaged, either by hitting the ground or by critters.

You'd think nobody has a fruit tree in their yard any more.

Think of my bum knee as the GOP, and how they really don't want any of us to reach the highest fruit, shining in the sun. Even if I could climb a ladder, the GOP would like to knock me off it.

Meanwhile, Bill and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and Joe Biden have already made us a couple of pies, some jam, and have gone out and bought us a ladder and told us how to hire (vote for) some new people who will carry their work forward and get it all.

Start over? Cut down the tree? I don't think so. Build on what we have with the ACA.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
55. Bill Clinton supported Single Payer
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 04:00 AM
Nov 2019

...in the 1992 primary but not the general.

We’ve been waiting a long time for Single Payer. Let’s-do-something-easier-first isn’t inspiring.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
77. We don't need to be inspired; we need to actually accomplish things that matter.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:44 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hav

(5,969 posts)
57. I love how people seem to miss that little word "first"
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 05:38 AM
Nov 2019

and attack that approach for not being bold enough or not solving all the problems.
I'd welcome to tackle easier achievable targets first so that less people die due to not getting needed care or go bankrupt for what would be standard and covered care in other countries. Is that inspiring enough or should that be put on hold for something more inspiring that might be way harder to implement?
Clinton explicitly said to go for the low hanging fruit first. People act as if "first" wasn't said and as if nothing else should be tried after the easier targets are achieved. It seems they'd rather have no improvement than steps in the right direction.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PhoenixDem

(581 posts)
106. Bill Clinton is as politically astute as ever
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:08 PM
Nov 2019

and he has learnt from the 1993 debacle unlike some.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»'We Should Pick the Low-H...