Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forum'We Should Pick the Low-Hanging Fruit First.' Bill Clinton Wades Into the Health Care Debate
The problem is the system is still entirely too complex, Clinton told told David Agus, CEO of the Lawrence J. Ellison Institute for Transformative Medicine of USC, at the TIME 100 Health Summit in New York City on Thursday. The premiums are going up way more than wages are going up, and the co-pays and deductibles and the drug prices are going up even more than the premiums. So, were kind of at a crossroads now.
We should pick the low-hanging fruit first, Clinton continued. I think we need to pass a public option and go back to encouraging all-payer systems in states so that you can have some control over the costs and keep it as simple as possible.
https://time.com/5703769/bill-clinton-time-100-health-summit-healthcare/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)Going to Single Payer " keeps it simple as possible " .All of the major countries in this world have solved the puzzle...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)
but various combinations of payers/funding mechanisms, in individualized systems that were implemented in very different timeframes, at very different times in history, with very different demographics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care
Just because something sounds simple doesn't mean it is.
"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" was a simple answer, and it was successfully used by the GOP to discredit Obama along with all information concerning the ACA to their base.
Think about it - Social Security didn't start out covering what it does now. Neither did any of the UHC in other countries that developed it, often over multiple decades, like Canada.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Once those provinces saw how bad their results were relative to other provinces, Canada arrived at a national healthcare system.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PhoenixDem
(581 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Method and means are wonderful concepts, but both rely on political climate.
Pres Obama realized this simple concept. I hope others do as well... else they are setting themselves up for deep disappointments.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...all of the major countries in this world have NOT solved the puzzle. Far from it.
Each country still has pieces of the puzzle missing, even Canada who initially addressed "universal health care" more than 50 years ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IronLionZion
(45,258 posts)If boomers want millennials to suffer under socialism, then it's time for young people to get Medicare.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:23 PM - Edit history (1)
One of the mechanisms by which Medicare is funded is that way more people pay into it than utilize it, just like Social Security.
It's not about "simplicity," or "the elderly hogging all the good stuff." It was created because private insurance wouldn't cover them, ro would charge a fortune to cover them, because statistical and actuarial calculations meant that they would incur more costs. And they do. (and no, before you start, I'm not defending the private insurance industry, but I'm pointing out the way that all health care costs are predicted and accounted for, anywhere on the planet.)
See also, "Why do the handicapped get the good parking spaces?" "Why did the rural areas get so much of the government investment in electrical and water infrastructure in the New Deal?" "Why are the services of St. Judes' available only to cancer patients who are children?"
Most nations with universal health care do not use single payer, but a variety of funding mechanisms and administrative measures. Especially those with large populations - and very few are as large as the US.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
themaguffin
(3,805 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
themaguffin
(3,805 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)I and other true Democrats have been working hard to turn Texas blue. We hope to pick up six congressional seats in addition to the two seats we flipped in 2018. We have a chance to defeat Cornyn in the Senate. The Democrats picked up 12 seats in the Texas House and need 9 more to take control of the Texas House prior to the next redistricting session. If Biden is the nominee, Texas will be a battleground state. If Warren or sanders is the nominee. Texas will not be a battle ground state and we can forget about keeping the two seats that we flipped in 2018
Speaker Pelosi is worried about losing control of the House with a weak top of the ballot ticket with a program that will kill down ballot candidates
.
Link to tweet
This is going to cause down-ballot damage in swing districts and states if shes the nominee, Buentello says, describing how her Pueblo-area constituents who voted overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in 2016 were already echoing criticisms about a giant, one-size-fits-all big government run plan that cancels private health insurance and raises taxes.
Story Continued Below
The fear of blowback is indicative of the broad and largely negative response to Warrens proposal from centrist, moderate and rural Democrats many of whom, like Buentello, back Joe Biden in the primary. And it exposes the fault line between those who fret about winning voters in the center and the activist progressive base propelling Warren to the front of the Democratic pack.
The long-awaited plan to raise the $20.5 trillion she says is needed to pay for single-payer health care in America is Warrens attempt to answer critics after weeks of questions from rival candidates about the cost of her proposal and the prospect of higher taxes. Warren promised, as she has in the past, that "not one penny in middle-class tax increases is necessary to finance the effort.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Bill should know better than anyone how rocky the well worn path can be. We need a change in the paradigm.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)thing that matters.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)What fails is half measures.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)And the fascists still moved Heaven & Earth to water it down, make it ineffective, defeat it & make it fail. And in that they've largely succeeded.
What is taking the fascists plan to kill universal health care - then allowing it to fail - other than appeasing fascists?
Not to say that what Clinton & Obama attempted to do was without merit. But they intentionally started with a weaker hand for the express purpose of avoiding pissing off the very fascists that have sought to crucify them from the outset. These are the same people who are now trying to crucify Bernie, AOC, Warren & every other liberal/progressive trying to improve the lives of the American people rather than the oligarchs & the corporations.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Gotcha.
And on top of that, you're trashing the ACA, which is the farthest we've ever gotten down the road to Universal Health Care.
Thank you on behalf of the millions who benefitted from it.
BTW - Obama wasn't even going to try for the ACA, but Pelosi told him she could do it, and she delivered.
Yeah, it wasn't a Ferrari, but it had four wheels and it ran. You prefer that those who would have died without it didn't get it because it wasn't a Ferarri?
Ted Kennedy lost the chance at anything close to it when he walked away from the table with Nixon, because Democrats told him "single payer or nothing."
Nixon put forth a plan that was to the left of the ACA. Kennedy said it was one of the biggest regrets of his career, because if he had come to some kind of compromise, we might have something now that is much, much closer to what the other industrialized countries have.
I'm glad that Obama and Pelosi learned from that, even if others refused to.
The ego of some politicians is a stubborn thing, and many, many have paid the price for it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)What you're doing is comparing the ACA to an explosive waiting to go off & destroy everything around it. Which it really is.
gotcha
With the ACA failing in place - which is exactly where the fascists seem to be going - it'll be enormously more difficult to get real universal health care passed.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Easier than actually answering the question, or admitting the fallacy.
And coming up with more, including attacking a straw man.
Gotcha.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(25,128 posts)""What you're doing is comparing the ACA to an explosion waiting to go off & destroy everything around it."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Contrary to what you think, your fallacy is not my responsibility to take part in. If you have an actual response that isn't simply an attempt to misrepresent what I said, and derail the discussion to get me on the defensive, then I'm happy to respond. Otherwise, I'm just going to point out your fallacy and not take the bait.
Is that clearer?
If not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
But if you still need it explained further, see:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=351063
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,128 posts)move heaven & earth to water it down, make it ineffective, defeat it & make it fail? Why didn't any Republican vote for it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)They set out to make him a one-term president, and ensure that all of his policy proposals failed.
Did you really not notice that tactic?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(25,128 posts)The Heritage Foundation insists they had nothing to do with the mandate, nothing to do with the ACA. Did you really not notice that tactic?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)That you weren't paying attention during that debate. I'm not your history teacher.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)and we are getting nowhere near where you want to be. What voters are going to make Congress that liberal? It isn't the half measures, as you call them. It's even getting them which is a challenge due to rural voters and the system giving them more power. And that is going to get worse. Until you convince them to send Senators who will vote for it, it's not happening, no matter who is President, and thus it is completely irrelevant how far left they are.
Bernie would not get it out of the Senate. Joe will not get it out of the Senate. Not until red states are less red.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)At least we have a chance if we win office. The "all or nothing" mindset is what got us Trump in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Repeatedly trying to compromise with people that want to murder us got us Trump
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Farmer-Rick
(10,072 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That doesn't involve compromising with republicans, it involves everyone who claims to be a progressive acting like that in the voting booth to stop a monster. People can't vote third party or write in when only Trump or the democratic nominee are the only two people that can win.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Either our leaders stand for something ("all or nothing" in your narrow characterization) .... or they compromise.
Bill Clinton, Barrack Obama, & Hillary Clinton aren't squeaky clean here. They've comprised all over the place on universal health care. We've been talking about it for going on 30 yrs and we're still nowhere near getting it. You seem to be perfectly happy with that situation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)FDR and LBJ had to compromise a lot, they got many things done (though LBJ greatly outdistances FDR IMO, because LBJ included POC as integral parts of the beneficial change). Anyone that refuses to do principled compromise will fail to get anything done. Can we compromise with today's republicans, no, not given what they are as a party, in that regard, I agree with you that we need to work around them, a blue state healthcare compact between many blue states is an example of how to work around their obstructionism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)If 50 million Americans uninsured is a problem, 30 million Americans uninsured & growing is not a solution.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)At least now we have something. And we can get chances to build on that. Good grief. If we lose, we get nothing. Even if we win, we will not get M4A. Not until rural people start being liberal. When will that happen?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)The point is Obama didn't even try. He started with the RW compromise from Bill Clinton's healthcare push.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Pass legistlation that gave power to enter national health insurance to the provinces. The blue provinces immediately entered, the red ones didn't until they recognized how screwed they were.
MFA will be an attempt at a nationalized healthcare plan. I promise you that red states will go to Court to damage it as they have the ACA. My approach would be to get states like the West Coast states, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, Virginia, New Jersey, Monnesota, New Mexico that are solidly blue to enter into a cross state insurance compact. Such a compact would cover around 100 million people. Fuck the red states, they would not be able to stop the compact. States like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Hampshire, Vermont could enter once they get rid of republican governors, AGs and legislatures.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)Would have been fine with that. But the congress he had would not pass it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I would go even farther and pass a law that allows states to work across state boundaries when buying healthcare for their populace. If states with relatively fit populations and which are blue could set up a multi-state buying pool, we will see red states come to their senses pretty fast after their rates explode upward after losing the lifeline of blue state health insurance buyers. I would love to see all the blue states join in a multi-state single payer plan and invite in only health insurers that offer plans that meet a high standard.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
check077
(16 posts)Wow! This really could work.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)You do know that allowing the purchase on health insurance across state lines is a Republican idea, right? It's designed to help insurance corp to make profits off of shit policies nationwide instead of just the states the RW controls.
If you're looking for a compact among the states, the National Popular Vote is further along.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The plan would allow states that want top quality healthcare for their citizens to band together to get that. They would have the option of dealing only with insurance companies that share that objective, they could even set up their OWN insurance company (the best choice). The plan would put massive pressure on red states and states like Florida and Georgia, their citizens would likely finally put republicans out of office for good.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Rural Hospitals Are Shutting Down in States That Didnt Expand Medicaid
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/07/rural-hospitals-are-shutting-down-in-states-that-didnt-expand-medicaid/
Residents suffer as Mississippi and 13 other states debate Medicaid expansion
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/residents-suffer-mississippi-13-other-states-debate-medicaid-expansion-n1075661
15,000 Americans Died So Republican Governors Could Stick It to Obama
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a28472403/15000-americans-died-medicaid-expansion-obamacare/
Medicare For All means *F O R . A L L*. The GOP opposes this. Do you?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I made it plainly clear that they would be removed from the picture by the blue state insurance compact. It won't matter what red states do, since the compact would not be federal, there isn't shit they could do about it. The idea would prevent red state legislatures from sabotaging high quality healthcare for blue state citizens, like they now do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)I don't think the children in Mississippi should suffer & die just because the fascists in charge of that state don't think of them as human. Your proposed compact would do the same.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)facists from getting elected by voting. At some point, people need to take responsibility into their own hands. We can't keep letting republicans kneecap health insurance in blue states, because I can assure you, people in blue states are dying NOW because of red state republican obstruction.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The ACA included a comprehensive set of insurance market reforms, primarily affecting the individual and small business insurance markets. Beginning in 2014, the law required insurers to guarantee coverage regardless of preexisting conditions, prohibited rate surcharges for people who are sick, limited variation in premiums due to age, and established a minimum benefit package.
As a technical matter, the ACA didnt bypass state regulation of insurance. Rather, it encouraged states to build these new rules into their laws, with the federal government stepping in to enforce the rules if states didnt act. But the practical effect of the ACA is greater uniformity in insurance rules across the country.
Repealing the ACAas Trump has proposedwould return insurance markets to their pre-ACA state, leaving people with preexisting conditions without access to insurance in the vast majority of states.
Allowing insurers to then sell plans across state lines would actually worsen access to coverage for people with preexisting conditions, since insurers would have a strong incentive to set up shop in states with minimal regulation, undermining the ability of other states to enact stricter rules.
Lets say Delaware wanted to attract health insurance jobs to its state with industry-friendly regulationsfor example, no required benefits (such as preventive services or maternity care) and no restrictions on medical underwriting (meaning people with preexisting conditions could be denied coverage). Insurers operating out of Delaware could offer cheaper health insurance by cherry-picking healthy enrollees from other states. If New York tried to require insurers to expand access to people with preexisting conditions or mandate specific benefits, its carriers would get stuck with disproportionately sick people.
https://newsatjama.jama.com/2016/10/19/jama-forum-those-pesky-lines-around-states/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)states like Florida and Georgia. A compact of blue states with insurance across their state lines will have regulatory oversight, their insurance commissioners won't go away and would most likely work in unison with their counterparts from other states to insure that all companies offering insurance to the compact offer full coverage, zero or very low deductible policies.
In addition, because they would account for a massive number of people, the compact could set up it's OWN insurance company and say goodbye to private insurance. Citizens would pay the small premiums via state income taxes (which is not subject to federal preview, if someone sues, the highest Court is the State Supreme Court in the state levying the tax).
The compact run insurance company would do everything a private insurance company does (in many cases, refuse to do after taking premiums) and the compact could also negotiate with drug companies over drug prices for it's covered citizens.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But I'll bite - You mean the "paradigm" that won us the 2018 midterms?
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/7/18065500/midterm-elections-results-2018-house-democrats-health-care
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/05/obamacare-democrats-midterms-elections
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/10/us/politics/health-care-democrats-congress.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)
Post removed
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I appreciate that his political acumen prevented a 2nd term for Bush the elder, but his contribution to economic oppression as SOP has done a lot of damage. The boomers and older Gen Xers had a good decade in the 90s and I'm sure that there are many who are grateful. But the rest of the country is suffering because of the entrenchment of neoliberal politics and the reluctance to be bold in our policies. People deserve better.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sheshe2
(83,337 posts)They said our Democratic President, William Clinton:
That IMHO is not well said at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Are you sure you're on the right board?
On DU, that kind of trashing is usually aimed at Republicans...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,367 posts)Since the 2016 election, Bill Clinton has mostly stayed out of public view.
I was suggesting he keep it that way.
That's not trashing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Is trashing. It's insulting.
Don't try to be coy. Perhaps that makes for a good story on another board, not here, puh-lease..
If you can't just own it when you're called out on it, then you might want to rethink why you're even posting that silliness here, where you're going to get called out.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,337 posts)Post#8
That is trashing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Then playing coy, like it's Jr High...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,337 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ugh.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,337 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,905 posts)that "..crawl back under a rock.." Really?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Mostly working on Clinton iniative related issues. The guy is a master tactician, it was said that his wife's campaign team ignored his input in 2016. He turned out to be dead on about needing more resources and campaigning in the Midwest.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)https://www.clintonfoundation.org/our-work/clinton-health-access-initiative
https://www.clintonfoundation.org/our-work/clinton-health-access-initiative/programs/hivaids
https://www.clintonfoundation.org/clinton-global-initiative/commitments/women-girls
Bill Clinton (along with Hillary) has actually been a lot more successful at actually achieving getting affordable health care to more people than others (who have been on capitol hill just as long or longer) who claim to own health care access as their very own invention, and trademarked political brand, while only having ever achieved creating talking points about it.
That could be at that root of some of the resentment that is aimed at them both. But you tell me.
Seems that Bill, Hillary and Obama know more about the topic than most other people. At least if you measure actual results.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
myohmy2
(3,118 posts)...especially when you consider that the 'low hanging fruit' is rotten to the core...
...isn't it strange how people with the best of everything can deny so many the basics?
"...it's time for bold new leadership."
...it's past time for bold new leadership...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)...is "rotten to the core."
...and our leadership is not bold....
...maybe you haven't been listening to the news?...
....Are you sure you're on the right board....
... ...
... ....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UncleNoel
(864 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
myohmy2
(3,118 posts)
"rotten to the core" does sound a little extreme...
...strike "rotten" and replace it with "half-rotten"...
"....Are you sure you're on the right board...."
...now you've got me worried...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,337 posts)28. " America's greatest moments have not come from "picking low hanging fruit" "
...especially when you consider that the 'low hanging fruit' is rotten to the core...
...isn't it strange how people with the best of everything can deny so many the basics?
"...it's time for bold new leadership."
...it's past time for bold new leadership...
It has blossomed and ripened. It is succulent. You have to work your way to the top and that takes time, patience and planning. You want to toss away the ripe fruit for that at the top that may never ripen.
I don't have the best of everything. No one does. I most certainly do not want to deny anyone anything and to say that anyone does is contemtable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to sheshe2 (Reply #47)
Post removed
sheshe2
(83,337 posts)The other ass?
They can bite me.
Sorry. Late and I have to go.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)For some reason.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)DU rules. I am simply not an alerter, but I do support rules against trashing Dems and your post
savages Bill Clinton with its crawl back under... line. Offensive perhaps unintentionally so. As I said, I dont tend to alert, have not in this case, but quite clearly your post crosses the line dont you think?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Otto Lidenbrock (Original post)
Post removed
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Not classy at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Who are all the people who don't know Democratic history?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,128 posts)History began in 2015 (except for honorable mention of the '30s and '60s).
I still don't know what these "entrenched neoliberal policies" are that Democrats supposedly have. Yesterday I saw someone talk about the DLC as if it still existed. They believe Obama took out the public option before ACA talks even began. Corrupt Republican obstructionism and no-compromise politics as war is never mentioned. Everything they think about Democrats is wrong. Shame on sources that spread this disinformation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oasis
(49,151 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aeromanKC
(3,307 posts)Actually, that was the plan all along. Unfortunately, the public option was taken off the table the first time, but it was then supposed to be added as we tweaked the ACA after it passed. It is now THAT time!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,587 posts)single payer and get the closest thing we can to it. Making the case for low hanging fruit gets us the fruit thats already lying on the ground. It gets us something thats not much better certainly not enough better than what weve got.. Picking low hanging fruit is doing things the easiest way. Im done with that. We wont get MFA or even single payer of any form over the next 5 years, but well get a hell of a lot closer to it if thats what we aim for. That means putting our sights directly on it, not something nearby or near it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(25,128 posts)"If we get a good public option it could lead to single payer and that's the best way to reach single payer. Saying you'll do nothing until you get single payer is a sure way never to get it." Similar situation now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,587 posts)is a concession strategy from the get go. It's a strategy that guarantees we'll never get there. We will never get to single payer of we don't talk about it -- a lot! It makes good sense and isn't a radical idea except here in the USA because we allow it to be portrayed as radical by shying away from it. Hell, we are in essence calling it a radical idea with statements like what we've heard from three past leaders the past several days alone! Especially to the media!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)towards more comprehensive solutions.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,587 posts)Nope -- been doing that way too long. Definitely not going to accept any view I don't buy during a primary.
Sorry, but that's the way I feel.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,587 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Nevertheless, I apologize.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)and motivational aspect - the "I can do it" thing that tells you to aim for the stars.
But in politics, it does not apply. Governing is about people getting along with enough peace to be able to make a good life for themselves. The other people are involved, plain and simple. So it is about getting along with them. The US does a great job, and with a lot of diversity. The right is particularly intransigent at this time. Our being intransigent too means nothing will change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,587 posts)"particularly intransigent at this time." They've been deliberately as well as purposefully intransigent for over a decade; they've also been working a long standing plan to entrench themselves as the sole executors, legislators and judiciary of the entire nation by defeating Dems for even longer. Never giving an inch is a part and parcel of that strategy -- we see it on virtually every front by the GOP. They give an inch only when there is no longer any possible alternative.
Us? Well, we've got people saying things like "we have to get the votes first" and us "being intransigent too means nothing will change". Translation: let's cut out the talk about MFA and single payer! Geesh -- talk about intransigent.
Look, all I'm saying is there are a majority of Democrats including democrat leaning millennials who welcome and applaud the open discussion about the virtues and means for MFA or single payer. That's what they want to hear coming from the party they belong to or lean toward. Telling them it's unrealistic and equates to "intransigence" and defeat is itself a defeatist posture, especially given the broad -- if not pervasive -- and now decades long concern about the role and influence of money/capital/corporations in politics and and therefore governance overall. Translation: stick with the broken system that we've been telling you to stick with now for a decade or so because it's reality.
Some of us are frustrated ... and some of us have been for 40+ years. We get that we have to win the election. If enough Dems are confident in a candidate who supports MFA or another form of single payer, then I'm confident we can win in 2020. If not, we'll have a candidate who talks about a go slow, be realistic and reasonable approach. That's fine ... but listening to past leaders tell the media that Dems should stop talking about single payer in the primary is a monumental turn off in my view. Telling us we can't after a history of relative failure or decline on the campaign finance, labor and economic welfare policy fronts is getting old.
Sorry. That's how I feel about this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)Just let them win? You would think our candidate winning would be at least better - whether they are for Medicare for All or Single Payer or improving Obamacare is neither here nor there, since none of it will happen. At least we can avoid a completely right-wing court, more wars and other horrors. Our system gives them an advantage. They can shut down the government, and they don't care. They will have more and more of an advantage that the EC gives them as more and more people live in blue areas.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hekate
(90,189 posts)...is never going to get picked this year, because I can't reach it and I am hobbled by this damn knee.
However the low-hanging fruit has been picked, washed, and used.
The stuff on the ground is called groundfall and generally is damaged, either by hitting the ground or by critters.
You'd think nobody has a fruit tree in their yard any more.
Think of my bum knee as the GOP, and how they really don't want any of us to reach the highest fruit, shining in the sun. Even if I could climb a ladder, the GOP would like to knock me off it.
Meanwhile, Bill and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and Joe Biden have already made us a couple of pies, some jam, and have gone out and bought us a ladder and told us how to hire (vote for) some new people who will carry their work forward and get it all.
Start over? Cut down the tree? I don't think so. Build on what we have with the ACA.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...in the 1992 primary but not the general.
Weve been waiting a long time for Single Payer. Lets-do-something-easier-first isnt inspiring.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hav
(5,969 posts)and attack that approach for not being bold enough or not solving all the problems.
I'd welcome to tackle easier achievable targets first so that less people die due to not getting needed care or go bankrupt for what would be standard and covered care in other countries. Is that inspiring enough or should that be put on hold for something more inspiring that might be way harder to implement?
Clinton explicitly said to go for the low hanging fruit first. People act as if "first" wasn't said and as if nothing else should be tried after the easier targets are achieved. It seems they'd rather have no improvement than steps in the right direction.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PhoenixDem
(581 posts)and he has learnt from the 1993 debacle unlike some.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden