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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:01 PM Dec 2019

"We can't tell the story about Kamala Harris 2020..."


?s=19


Christine Pelosi
@sfpelosi
We can’t tell the story about Kamala Harris 2020 without speaking of sexism, misogynoir, and big money in politics. Kamala has the integrity to see that she could overcome 1 or 2 but not all 3. Whichever candidate you choose as Democrat for president, fight to dismantle all 3.

1,006
1:46 PM - Dec 3, 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"We can't tell the story about Kamala Harris 2020..." (Original Post) mcar Dec 2019 OP
A couple of interesting discussions on the matter... spicysista Dec 2019 #1
... left-of-center2012 Dec 2019 #2
The Bloomberg hire mcar Dec 2019 #3
The truth is that she ran a terrible campaign. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #4
Oh, was she poll-tested? mcar Dec 2019 #5
Huh? The Valley Below Dec 2019 #6
Exactly ! left-of-center2012 Dec 2019 #8
As a Harris backer (she was my first pick until the writing was clear on the wall)... wysimdnwyg Dec 2019 #9
I knew at the "moment" that Harris would get a short term "bump" The Valley Below Dec 2019 #11
I'll say it again... wysimdnwyg Dec 2019 #13
at that point stopdiggin Dec 2019 #15
Agree with just about every word you said and I really like Harris. TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #10
Her supporters did not peel off because they suddenly discovered that Harris is a woman, The Valley Below Dec 2019 #12
You mix some things up. TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #14
K&R PunkinPi Dec 2019 #7
Apparently we can ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #16
What you said! mcar Dec 2019 #17
 

spicysista

(1,663 posts)
1. A couple of interesting discussions on the matter...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:10 PM
Dec 2019




Notice anything about the ladies covering this topic?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
2. ...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:15 PM
Dec 2019

The disarray inside Harris’ campaign was laid excruciatingly bare in a resignation letter from Kelly Mehlenbacher, the outgoing state operations director, who complained that staffers were being treated appallingly and top officials provided little direction on policy and lacked a viable plan to win the election.

“This is my third presidential campaign and I have never seen an organization treat its staff so poorly,” Mehlenbacher wrote in the Nov. 11 letter obtained by the New York Times.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/kamala-harris-dropping-out-of-2020-race/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
3. The Bloomberg hire
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:22 PM
Dec 2019

yeah, I believe her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
4. The truth is that she ran a terrible campaign.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:22 PM
Dec 2019

Harris stated with tremendous goodwill, but she never came off as authentic.

Her message would change from audience to audience to audience, veering abruptly from lane to lane.

Had she run a consistent race as the tough pragmatic liberal with a heart that we've come to know here in CA over the years, she'd still be in the race in my estimation. She has a lot of appeal.

Too bad. But the fault of her failed run is entirely her own and those who advised her to constantly "reinvent herself" on the trail.

And the cheap shot in the debate was the worst example, as he had to admit after that her position was the same as Joe Biden's.

This wasn't a case of sexism, misogynoir, or money. It was about not seeming genuine. That's what did her in.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
5. Oh, was she poll-tested?
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:23 PM
Dec 2019

How about her voice?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wysimdnwyg

(2,229 posts)
9. As a Harris backer (she was my first pick until the writing was clear on the wall)...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:51 PM
Dec 2019

I agree. Right up until the crap about the first debate.

She didn't come across as authentic, at least not in the big moments (like debates). And it hurt her campaign.

She wasn't consistent in her positions. And it hurt her campaign.

It is her fault and that of her top advisers (which is, of course, her fault for hiring them). And it hurt her campaign.

But that shot at Biden in the first debate was fair, albeit both disingenuous and poorly chosen (seriously, it was about an issue from nearly 50 years ago). Still, it was fair. And her immediate poll bump showed it had nothing to do with her eventual departure from the campaign. Just because you (and other Biden backers) didn't like it doesn't mean it was a cheap shot or that it hurt her campaign. If anything, I think she'd have been better off continuing to attack. (I'm not saying I like that strategy, but I think she'd have been better able to maintain her poll standing than pushing one attack and then backing off.)

And finally, yes, sexism, misogynoir, and money ALL played a role in her campaign's demise. The sexism and big money both continue to have a negative impact on Warren and Klobuchar as well. Those of us more enlightened on the left may not want to accept it, but misogyny, racism, and big money are all prevalent in our society, so of course they will have an impact. Obama won despite the racism. Hillary almost won (did win the pop. vote) despite the sexism. With the fear of Trump and his despicable cadre of voters out there, many on the left are too afraid to accept the idea of a woman - especially a minority woman - getting the nomination (whether they agree with the idea or are just afraid that someone like Harris couldn't get elected). Now, that's not to say these were the overriding issues. Clearly they were not, and I've personally thought for several months that Harris was running a terrible campaign. But these issues definitely played a part.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
11. I knew at the "moment" that Harris would get a short term "bump"
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:06 PM
Dec 2019

but I also knew that she had just killed her campaign. That proved to be the case.

The shot wasn't "fair" in the slightest, as she had to backtrack and admit she had a very similar position on bussing.

It was a cheap shot and it killed her credibility. Had she continued in that vein, her campaign would have ended much sooner. It was a fatal error, in a campaign riddled with errors.

Democratic primary voters are very well disposed to supporting someone like Kamala Harris. Blaming her poor campaign on misogyny, racism, and big money take the focus off the fact that she ran a terrible campaign. She could have been top tier. Very easily, in fact. It was almost a "default" position for her.

Too bad. She's my Senator. I've voted for her many times and likely will in the future. But I'm hardly alone among Californians in questioning how Harris was "positioning" herself, as she often didn't seem like the person we all thought we knew.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wysimdnwyg

(2,229 posts)
13. I'll say it again...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:16 PM
Dec 2019

"Blaming her poor campaign on misogyny, racism, and big money take the focus off the fact that she ran a terrible campaign"

I DON'T "blame her poor campaign" on those things. I very clearly blame HER for the poor campaign. But that doesn't mean those things didn't play a part in the campaigns eventual failure. Just like pretty much everything in life, it's not a binary choice. It's a combination of things, the most important one of which was the poorly run campaign.

As for the busing thing, well, we will just have to agree to disagree about whether it was a cheap shot and whether it helped or hurt her campaign. It's all academic now, and we can just hope that she and Joe have mended their own personal fence, regardless of your or my thoughts on the matter.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

stopdiggin

(11,095 posts)
15. at that point
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:21 PM
Dec 2019

the "narrative" was that everyone would eventually be going after the front runner (Biden) .. and Harris wanted to take that first shot -- and thus anoint herself as the dragon slayer. The tough woman who wasn't afraid ...

It was a miscalculation. It was deliberate. And it hurt her.

(and then there were the other issues .. but the Biden gaff came first)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
10. Agree with just about every word you said and I really like Harris.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:55 PM
Dec 2019

"This wasn't a case of sexism, misogynoir, or money."

That is the part I slightly disagree with. It was about those three things but they weren't the biggest or most prominent problems that did her in. You highlight the bigger problems throughout your post.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
12. Her supporters did not peel off because they suddenly discovered that Harris is a woman,
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:13 PM
Dec 2019

or that she's of mixed ancestry, or because she wasn't raising enough money.

The money woes were due to poor campaign choices.

Let's not forget the initial enthusiasm for Kamala Harris. She lost that support. We do better as a party that wants to win races to be honest about why some candidacies fail and to learn from the mistakes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
14. You mix some things up.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:16 PM
Dec 2019

"Her supporters did not peel off because they suddenly discovered that Harris is a woman, or that she's of mixed ancestry, or because she wasn't raising enough money."

You paint it as a one size only problem. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a certain segment out there who perceive her as a woman and minority in a negative light. That includes all preconceived notions that come along with it.

You are claiming it as an either or situation when it truly can't be one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
16. Apparently we can
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:24 PM
Dec 2019

I’m hearing it right here, that nope, sexism and racism had nothing to do with it so stop saying that it was the poor campaign choices hit at Biden wasn’t connecting campaign in disarray blah blah blah

Since no campaigns are perfect and every one of our candidates have made fairly egregious errors, some are still in the running some aren’t. I find the ones who want to completely deny that racism and sexism had absolutely nothing to do with it hush any sign that racism and sexism had shit to do with it

People who don’t follow Kamala don’t realize how hard she was working, and how little media coverage she was getting. She was out of time and money. We who were part of the #Khive knew.


And you know what? Fuck this. Fuck racism deniers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
17. What you said!
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:47 PM
Dec 2019
Since no campaigns are perfect and every one of our candidates have made fairly egregious errors, some are still in the running some aren’t. I find the ones who want to completely deny that racism and sexism had absolutely nothing to do with it hush any sign that racism and sexism had shit to do with it


I was amazed at how some held Harris's "attack" on Biden at the first debate as the most horrible awful thing to ever have happened to a candidate, ever. Yet Harris went on, and often defended Biden and others against unfair attacks.

Yet when Gabbard launched her lying attack against Harris, no one defended her after. Not one of the candidates. They sure defended Gabbard when HRC never even used her name.

Every candidate has made, and will make, mistakes. Some of them get mentioned, but many get ignored. Harris's mistakes and campaign difficulties were amplified, her policies, ideas, enthusiasm, and enthusiastic support by many were disregarded by the media.

I am appalled that some here think it's no big deal that the December debate stage for a DEMOCRATIC primary may have no POC on it. Some are saying that it's because the POC candidates don't have "good ideas," unlike, I suppose, all the white candidates.

Or, that Kamala wasn't "genuine," didn't have any ideas, blah, blah.

I'm disgusted by what I'm seeing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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