Lawrence O'Donnell is single-handedly trying to end ...

[SKKY]

...Mayor Pete’s campaign tonight. WTF?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. That was infuriating.

He seemed to think that a city mayor was supposed to have done something about the federal deficit, and, worse, he accused him of deliberately lying. That was over the line, IMO. I don't know what's wrong with him.

[squirecam]

13. Terrible

It was a bad ending to a poor argument.

[jezebel321]

2. He is obviously for E Warren, but tonight was way over the line. nt

[highplainsdem]

3. I've had the impression O'Donnell is a Warren supporter.

And he would have read the poll analysis saying that some of the support she's lost has gone to Buttigieg.

[jezebel321]

11. 100000000000000000000000000% agree. Its obvious. nt

[BeyondGeography]

52. I always thought he was more for Klobuchar

He definitely likes them both. And while both have taken near-term hit in the polls from Pete, he stepped in it big time today and he deserved every bit of the smack down he received.

[cry baby]

4. I think LO'D didn't like Pete negative remarks about the dem party.

I don’t really like it much either, even though I like Pete pretty well.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. I didn't take the remarks as especially negative, he just thinks the issue needs more attention.

And his criticism about deficits was actually directed to the GOP. I don't know why LOD had such a bug up his ass, but accusing B. of deliberately lying crossed a line, IMO.

[cry baby]

18. I heard Pete say that Dems have never really cared about deficits and debt.

Criticism of Dems isn’t necessary to make his point that deficits and debt do matter.

Btw, Dems have cared about those things as long as I can remember...and I’m old.

[TeamPooka]

5. Pete needs to learn the deficits go down under Democrats and up under Republicans

and to stop using GOP talking points to run for the Democratic nomination.


To make himself look good, Buttigieg bashes Democrats with GOP talking point on national deficit
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/12/5/1903767/-To-make-himself-look-good-Buttigieg-bashes-Democrats-with-GOP-talking-point-on-national-deficit

[squirecam]

17. Please

Explain the plans of the other Dems to reduce the debt.

There doesn’t seem to be any.

So Pete isn’t wrong here.

[TeamPooka]

26. Please, right back at you. Pete was not talking about other candidates.

He was talking "historically" but go ahead try change what he actually said.
It makes you both look bad.

[squirecam]

38. So

When have Dems reduced the debt in the past 20+ years?

They haven’t.

Obama did reduce the deficit. That isn’t nearly good enough.

It’s shameful what we are doing to future generations.

[Blue_true]

47. Why did you limit it to 20 years?

President Obama was handed an absolute shit sandwich. On top of that, a lot of socalled budget reporters are ignoring that President Obama put about 3-4 trillion dollars of debt on the books that Bush had kept off the books. When President Obama put debt on the books to better account for it, that debt got assigned to him, even though Bush ran it up.

Buttigieg is totally wrong, no President in the last century democrat or republican, has decreased the debt, your claim there is bollocks. What several democratic Presidents including President Obama have done is slow the growth of the debt by reducing deficits, Clinton actually left a budget surplus that Bush blew to hell. Trump has increased the deficit that President Obama left by over 100%, thereby increasing the pace of the debt growth.

[squirecam]

49. And

Slowing the growth of the debt is not nearly good enough. The debt still grows.

None of the front runners actually has a plan to actually reduce the debt.

[Blue_true]

58. When the deficit is reduced, the debt grows slower.

When the deficit is reduced to zero, the debt grows due to interest. When there is a surplus, that can be used to start paying down debt, hence reducing debt and interest on debt. In the last 39 years, only two Presudents have managed to slow the growth of debt, that was Clinton and Obama. Carter also slowed the growth of debt, but he is outside that 39 year window.

Exactly HOW?????? will the debt be paid off when deficits are being run, like Trump's which is more that 100% larger than the one that was handed to him. Maybe we can print Three Stooges money and use that to "pay off" the debt while Trump continues to blow up the deficit.

Better yet, ask a republican officeholder why his or her party is historically so shitty on the deficit and hence debt.

Buttigieg is wrong and really need to study up before he talks about deficits and debt again.

[squirecam]

61. Taxes

They need to be raised.

I have zero issues with using a wealth tax and paying the deficit and debt with it.

[Blue_true]

67. I would prefer making the tax table truly progressive over a wealth tax.

I would also eliminate any loopholes where the claimant can't prove that actual jobs (and not just for their accountant) were actually produced.

One issue with a wealth tax is that it has never been tested constitutionally, raising the maximum tax bracket level and eliminating tax loopholes have.

[squirecam]

71. But

It was their tax cut that exploded the debt. So why not use their wealth to pay for it....

[Blue_true]

73. I am ok with a wealth tax applied to money of Americans or American

companies held offshore. I don't care where they claim their home or headquarters, if they live predominantly here, they pay the wealth tax or we arrest them until they do pay it, with interest for any delay.

[lapfog_1]

76. Only if someone running proposed that

instead they propose to use the wealth tax for more spending... and, not only that, but the increased revenue from the new taxes doesn't even cover the new spending.

[Blue_true]

44. Historically, democrats have done better with the deficit.

Typically it boiled down to fair taxation and spending government funds on items that produced more economic activity (hence, more tax revenue). Pete Buttigieg should know that if he is running for our nomination.

[squirecam]

45. Better

On the deficit is not a plan to pay down the actual debt.

I keep hearing that Dems are better on a host of issues, but not nearly good enough.

Well, that goes for the debt and deficit too.

[Blue_true]

53. In order to pay down the debt, the deficit need to be reduced to zero then

go into surplus. Explain to me where we will get the money to pay down debt when we are running a deficit? I repeat, historically democrats have done a better job of taking the deficit toward zero. As a result of reducing the deficit, democrats have historically put the country in a better position to pay down debt. Buttigieg is totally wrong and he needs to be called out hard.

[squirecam]

55. Ok

1 raise income taxes until the deficit is zero.
2 any Warren wealth tax is split 50 50 between new spending and debt payments
3 all future spending must be paid for

Amy has a more conservative plan that addresses it.

[Blue_true]

62. Number 1 would be suicidal. But I am down with number 2. nt

[squirecam]

65. You

Have to reverse the trump tax cuts. Suicidal or not.

[Blue_true]

68. I agree with reversing the Trump tax cuts.

I would even raise the upper tax bracket to 50% and eliminate all loopholes that don't produce jobs. I also would go after offshore money held by Americans and American corporations and apply a 20% wealth tax to that because the bastards chose to keep it offshore.

[Joe941]

63. You point is well taken. The deficit is becoming a real issue.

[StarfishSaver]

42. He also ignores the fact that Obama had to save us from a recession and

in such circumstances, deficits have to go up to stimulate growth.

[evertonfc]

6. No worries

his show has very low viewership so no one will see it

[Bayard]

43. What gives you that idea?

[evertonfc]

75. ratings and

I'm very well connected in progressive politics in my State and most people couldnt tell you who he is. He has a weeknight, late tv show. No one watches not does he carry any significant influence.

[LovingA2andMI]

59. You Think....

We watch it along with Millions of others. And it is available online for viewing at a later date --- so there's that.

[Miles Archer]

7. All I can say is expect more of this, across the boards

I think the neutrality will steadily dissolve, and pundits are going to choose sides in short order. Many of them have, more will follow.

[elleng]

8. Lawrence isn't that powerful.

He erred, as do we all.

[brooklynite]

9. So basically, everyone is party of a conspiracy to bring down someone else's candidates?

O'Donnell is a news analyst; anything he brings up will be something the Republicans would throw eventually. The key is that Buttigieg doesn't get tripped up by the criticism.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. I don't think that was his intent, but accusing Buttigieg of deliberately lying was a bit much.

[TeamPooka]

28. not lying so much as using bullshit GOP talking points to suck up to conservatives that will

never vote for a Democratic candidate

[blm]

41. ✔️

[pnwmom]

20. Maybe Buttigieg should take constructive criticism and forgo any future

comments claiming that the D's don't care about deficit spending. You know as well as I do that both Clinton and Obama made big strides in cutting the deficit, but Reagan and Bush blew the budget apart. It's not fair for Buttigieg to act as if D's don't care enough about the deficit. Pete should find another way to distinguish himself.

[MBS]

78. + 1: "the key is that Buttigieg doesn't get tripped up by the criticism"

It's a given that every single candidate has and will be subjected to criticism, fairly or not.
The strength and character of the candidate will be measured by how he or she responds to that criticism.

[dlk]

12. Lawrence walked the walk as a senate staffer

He knows what he is talking about. Republican lies have been repeated so many times, they have become part of the narrative-to all our detriment.

[pnwmom]

14. I think O'Donnell is a loyal Democrat who thinks Buttigieg's comments

about D's not caring about the deficit are self-serving and WRONG.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. Wait? Pete said that?

[pnwmom]

22. If you can, watch the last five minutes of Lawrence ODonnell. If you have cable you probably can. nt

[TeamPooka]

30. here's the link

To make himself look good, Buttigieg bashes Democrats with GOP talking point on national deficit
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/12/5/1903767/-To-make-himself-look-good-Buttigieg-bashes-Democrats-with-GOP-talking-point-on-national-deficit

[squirecam]

21. Can you

Point to a plan to reduce the *debt*. By any of our front Runners?

Because if not, Pete is right. We should be caring more about the debt.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

23. so We let the repigs blow up the debt and we get austerity when we are in power?

Fuck that.

[pnwmom]

25. As usual. n/t

[squirecam]

29. Then

Let’s just let the earth burn. After all, repugs will simply reverse whatever climate actions we take.

The debt is a problem. The fact that they are ignorant children means that we have to be the responsible ones. That’s what grown ups do. You don’t just throw your hands up and spend more money.

[Demsrule86]

81. Yes fuck that. Why should we balance the budget on the backs of the middle class and

the poor. And how exactly would they do it...some grand sell out bargain?

[pnwmom]

24. Can you point to a plan of Pete's? Here's his page on economic issues.

https://peteforamerica.com/policies/economic-agenda/

[squirecam]

33. But

I’m not seeing any debt specific ideas in there either.

[pnwmom]

35. He doesn't appear to have one -- and yet he's criticizing other D's for not caring enough.

Elizabeth Warren, for example, at least brings up the issue.

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/stop-economic-crash

Amy Klobuchar also addresses debt.

https://medium.com/@AmyforAmerica/senator-klobuchars-plan-for-the-future-of-work-and-a-changing-economy-4c7c0b859fec?

[SaschaHM]

31. Where is Pete's plan?

If he wants to criticize the party despite our history in regards to balancing the budgets and lowering the deficit, then he needs to put his money where his mouth is.

Let's just call it what it is, a cheap shot at Warren/Sanders that is often the go to line for any republican.

[TeamPooka]

32. keep repeating the thing Pete didn't actually say. He wasn't talking about the other candidates.

but spin away.
It's cute.

[Demsrule86]

83. He was talking about the Democratic Party and past Democratic leaders like Pres. Obama and

President Clinton which is worse in my view than talking about the other candidates. A Democrat running for the highest office should not spout such talking points...IE Democrats are not good on deficit reduction or balancing the budget when every damn time a GOP is elected they blow up he the budget. This was a mistake.

[TeamPooka]

86. Yup

[unc70]

16. Pete screwed up big time

When I first heard what he said, I was astounded and deeply disappointed. It sounded like Repub talking points. Given my outrage, I can certainly understand LO's.

[blm]

37. That was my initial reaction, too. Been fighting that GOP talking point

for 3 decades. It hurts to hear it repeated by a Democrat.

[SaschaHM]

27. Talking about Debt/Deficit during a campaign does no one any favors.

Has Pete even put out a plan in regards to that or was he just attacking Warren/Sanders?

I hope it's the latter because serious debt/deficit reform requires sacrifice and hard cuts that aren't electorally popular.

[judeling]

34. I thought exactly What O'Donnell

did when I first heard it.

Pete stepped in it and will be backing up from this for some time. Warren just went through hoops and political damage to show how she would pay for M4A. Every candidate on stage with him at the debates have included payfors in their proposals.

This is literally a Republican Myth the Democrats have been fighting for Decades.

This one is going to hurt.

[blm]

39. I just posted a similar view. When you've been actively fighting

GOP talking points for decades it really does hurt when a Dem repeats it.

[squirecam]

46. Saddling

Our kids with debt is not a gop talking point.

It happens to be what is happening. True, they *dont* care. But we sure should.

[blm]

57. Sorry, I was addressing what WAS said, not what YOU said.

[squirecam]

60. Ok

But while Pete May have been inaccurate, the issue still remains.

The debt needs to be addressed. Not just the deficit. And Dems have not addressed it nearly enough either.

[blm]

66. And yet they sport a FAR better record for fiscal responsibility than GOP

administrations.

If only Republicans would stop blocking the measures needed to address the deficit and debt.

The debt in 2000 was on track to be completely paid off by 2009. Then Bush was weaseled into office and Republicans did what Republicans do....reverse progress and explode the deficit with tax cuts for the rich and war.

[squirecam]

69. Yes

They are horrible hypocrites. We know that.

But Dems need to fix the problem.

That means using a wealth tax for debt reduction 50/50 with spending.

[lettucebe]

36. When he introduced his segment I was also furious

and then I heard what he had to say and I was completely in agreement. Buttigieg is wrong. If you didn't hear the segment, please go listen before passing judgment on O'Donnell.

[MontanaMama]

40. I turned him off

When he started that crap. Come on Lawrence. Disappointing.

[Joe941]

48. Lawrence actually made many good points.

[pnwmom]

51. I agree. n/t

[Bayard]

50. I don't blame him for being pissed

We don't need our own candidates spreading the eternal lie that all Dems do when they get in office is spend, spend, spend. They have hammered it into their voters heads for years, and it has hurt our party substantially. I think that's the biggest reason people are scared of Sander's and Warren's policy proposals.

Per Factcheck, under Clinton admin:
Even under accrual accounting, the annual reports showed surpluses of $69.2 billion in fiscal 1998, $76.9 billion in fiscal 1999, and $46 billion for fiscal year 2000. So even if the government had been using that form of accounting the deficit would have been erased for those three years.

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

[pnwmom]

54. Right. He saw the sacrifice that some D's in the Senate made to their careers when they

voted for deficit reduction. And then to see this 37 year old come along and act like he knew better and cared more than any of them . . .

O'Donnell had good reason to be angry.

[R B Garr]

56. To ignore Bill Clinton's legacy of reducing the deficit

is making Pete look like he does need some schooling. That is a shocking omission.

[squirecam]

64. Did

We meaningfully pay down the debt? No.

Have we since 93? No.

It needs attention. Dems haven’t done enough.

[R B Garr]

70. Bayard in post 50 provided a link that shows Clinton

surpluses. It was the overarching theme of Clinton’s presidency.

“Dems haven’t done enough” Unbelievable statement, truly.

[squirecam]

72. I'd say

1.9 billion in 1 year and 89 billion in the other is clearly not enough when the debt is in trillions.

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

[BootinUp]

74. He can try... but he does not

Have that much influence imho.

[brooklynite]

77. A prediction: nobody will be discussing this in 24 hours

I don't watch political opinion shows and don't see them having any appreciable impact on public opinion in the real world.

[SKKY]

79. I sincerely hope that is the case because I fail to see the utility in us tearing down...

...potential candidates.

[stopbush]

80. Lawrence's point was well taken. The fact is that Ds made HARD VOTES that ended up

costing them their Congressional seats. Those votes were to reduce deficits. No Rs voted for that legislation. No mention of that from PG. Lawrence was there at the time, working in the Senate when those Ds made those hard votes. It’s personal to him.

Lawrence gave PG the benefit of the doubt that he was merely ignorant of history and not consciously twisting the same.

[Demsrule86]

88. Yeah we made hard votes and for what? So the GOP could blow up again in a couple of years...no more.

Pete should not have blamed Democrats period.

[Dem4Life1102]

82. Buttigieg was parroting a GOP talking point

and O'Donnell called him out on it.

[BuffaloJackalope]

84. Stop it.

If Pete can't identify false RW talking points for what they are, that's Pete's problem, not Lawrence's.

[UniteFightBack]

85. I think Larry was a little rough on Pete...he could of educated him in a more constructive way. nt

[StevieM]

87. I am currently leaning towards Mayor Pete...but it took me a while to warm up to him.

Stuff like this is why.

I did not like what he said. He needs to issue a thorough clarification and correction.

BTW, Pete, HRC's slogan in 2016 wasn't "I'm with her." It was "Stronger Together." I didn't like it when he got that one wrong, either.