'Sort of stunning': Booker rebukes Bloomberg for calling him 'well-spoken'

[JoeOtterbein]

[link:https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/06/booker-bloomberg-well-spoken-077224|

The senator said he was "taken aback" by the former New York mayor's language.

Sen. Cory Booker on Friday said he was “taken aback” by fellow Democratic presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg’s description of him earlier in the day as “well-spoken” — charging that the remark was representative of a failure by some of the party’s White House hopefuls to energize black voters and communicate effectively on issues of race.

“I was taken aback by it. I'll say this, you know, Mike and I have known each other for a long time," Booker told the “ Signal Boost” radio show on SiriusXM, going on to praise the former New York mayor for the support he offered him several years ago, when Booker was mayor of Newark, New Jersey.

Booker said it was “sort of stunning at times that we are still revisiting these sort of tired, you know, tropes or the language we have out there that folks, I don't think understand — the fact that they don't understand is problematic.”

Booker criticized Joe Biden over the summer for statements the former vice president made about working with segregationist lawmakers during his time in the Senate, and has recently targeted Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Ind., for his inability to gain ground within the African American community.

snip

more at link

[still_one]

2. It is

[StarfishSaver]

5. There is a long history of white people expressing wonder at black people being articulate

Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)

intelligent, educated or well-read, while these attributes are considered a given not worth remarking on when white people white people exhibit them.

Vernon Jordan even noted this in the title of his memoir, "Vernon Can Read."

Bloomberg should know better.

[JoeOtterbein]

14. Thanks!

I was really starting to worry.

Hey wait a minute! Maybe I should be really worried?

[NurseJackie]

20. This! Thank you!

[people]

28. History of white people expressing wonder at black people being articulate

So true!

[cwydro]

35. I remember what Biden said about Obama back in the day.

I won’t quote it here, but surely everyone is aware of it.

[treestar]

53. And it as such a big deal to Obama that he chose Biden for his running mate

To be called "clean" as in free of scandal, or articulate or well-spoken and have it be a positive is another white privilege.

But why hold onto it even into 2019? When will equality be claimed? Why assume Bloomberg or whoever intends an insult? Obama said nothing about it or forgave it. Booker is asserting his victimhood. Can people elected to the US Senate at least take it as meant to really mean he speaks pretty well? Rather than an implication that it is unusual because black people allegedly usually don't? It seems acceptance of equality would take that. Did he really think Bloomberg meant it that way?

I understand the whole concept, but wonder how long does it go on, and are there always going to be black people who are insulted by this compliment? When is equality achieved and the words mean the same thing whether used to describe a black or white person?

[cwydro]

56. I didn't like Biden's comment then, and it reminds me of things my late father would say.

They mean well, but...

Otherwise, I agree with your post.

[StarfishSaver]

60. "Booker is asserting his victimhood"

Wow.

"When is equality achieved and the words mean the same thing whether used to describe a black or white person?"

Probably some time after white people stop accusing black people who challenge them of "asserting our victimhood."

Obviously, we're not there yet.

[treestar]

63. Wow yourself. Oh wow oh wow, you are leaving it up to others,

to stop saying certain things before black people can feel equal. You've made it up to white people, when they perfectly walk on eggshells in every encounter/opinion. No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Did Bloomberg really mean to make Booker feel demeaned on racial grounds? When will the day come when it is not taken that way?

And don't start on the "poor white people" sarcasm. Yes it is not a lot of suffering to have to walk on eggs and watch our words and it's nothing like suffering racial discrimination. The point is when do you let it go, because you're equal (or even a friggin' U.S. Senator, way more powerful than the bulk of white people will ever be).

[StarfishSaver]

66. Speaking of victimhood - Poor You

with all the suffering you have to endure "walking on eggshells ..." or as most thinking, feeling people call it, recognizing that being considerate of other people doesn't mean you're being oppressed.

[CTyankee]

58. wait, he didn't also say he was "clean-cut"?

Didn't that go along with well spoken?

[MrsCoffee]

6. Then you probably aren't black.

There is a history that folks seem to be intentionally ignoring.

[Clash City Rocker]

13. Yeah, and you'd love to be called a credit to your race too

If you know any black people, ask them about it. It’s been a backhanded “compliment” used by white racists for many years. I’m sure Bloomberg didn’t mean it that way, but if he’s been in public service this long and doesn’t know the racial undertones of that word, it’s disturbing.

[Blue_true]

37. When a White says that about a Black person, it has two edges.

It is both a complement to the Black person and a put down of his or her ethnic group. It leaves the impression that most Blacks are not well spoken or even mildly articulate.

[StarfishSaver]

40. Bloomberg isn't young. He knows what it means.

[Blue_true]

70. I don't know the answer to your question. Personally I don't single people out in a

way to make them feel like they are an exception to their ethnic group.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

46. Would you tell someone who had been harassed on the street that you wished random

people would tell you that you’re good looking?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. My question was whether you would say that to someone who had just told you they were

unhappy someone had catcalled them on the street.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

50. That's a terrible thing to say.

[The Valley Below]

3. What a terrible thing to say about somebody.

What we he call him next? Athletic?!

[StarfishSaver]

8. You need to understand the context

Bloomberg should know that. Instead, he fell back in the trap of the trope that well-spokenness in a black person is unusual enough to merit comment.

Has he referred to any of the other candidates as "well spoken"?

[StarfishSaver]

11. You can look up the definitions of the two words to understand the difference between them

And yes, it is complicated. If you're not willing to take the issue seriously and do some work to understand it, perhaps you shouldn't weigh in with snark.

[The Valley Below]

12. We Biden supporters would love it if almost anyone called Joe "well-spoken."

I suspect Bloomberg, if asked, would also call Mayor Pete "well-spoken." Because he is well-spoken. Elizabeth Warren, as well.

Because that's real. Right?

I'd say the same of Cory Booker and certainly of Barack Obama.

I take your point. It's not that I don't. But...

[treestar]

65. Biden, I know, right?

Speaking well is just rare. That is why there is Toastmasters! Maybe Biden should practice table topics.

[sheshe2]

29. Yes, he should have known better than that.

He was Mayor of NYC, a very diverse constituency, for 11 years.

StarfishSaver
8. You need to understand the context

Bloomberg should know that. Instead, he fell back in the trap of the trope that well-spokenness in a black person is unusual enough to merit comment.

Has he referred to any of the other candidates as "well spoken"?

What is unspoken in his comment is...'for a black man.'

[FM123]

51. Yep. What is unspoken really is the point, and it speaks volumes.

[sheshe2]

52. That it does, FM123.

[treestar]

64. Is there anything else?

I would hate to accidentally say something else that is also taken as a negative because we are supposed to assume it is taken as not meriting comment.

Toastmasters now takes people of any race and the clubs are integrated. Well spokenness is rare in general. There are a lot of inarticulate white people, starting with Individual 1. Or even Biden, a former US Senator and Veep, is said to need help in this area.

[StarfishSaver]

67. You mean anything else or anything else that YOU would understand?

No, I don't think so.

Maybe someone else can try to explain it to you.

[mathematic]

15. That reminds me of the jeff foxworthy joke

If the two nicest things you can say about a black man are "well spoken" and "athletic", then you might, oh I forget how the joke ends.

[Jake Stern]

4. If being called "well spoken" causes him to lose his shit

then what would calling him “handsome” do? Give him a coronary?

[ChubbyStar]

18. It isn't funny Pat n/t

[sheshe2]

30. Agreed.

Thank you ChubbyStar.

[Clash City Rocker]

16. Sigh. Well if you want to understand it, read this

https://www.theroot.com/he-s-so-articulate-what-that-really-means-1790874985

I would think anyone who spends any time around black people would know this already, but maybe I’m wrong.

[StarfishSaver]

17. He didn't "lose his shit"

And the "angry black man" reference isn't helpful to the discussion ...

[BeyondGeography]

19. At least he didn't call him "clean"

[monmouth4]

25. I was just about to post the same thing. Remember that? n/t

[BeyondGeography]

26. Sure do

[CentralMass]

31. That was clean and articulate.

[BeyondGeography]

32. And here we are 12 years later

Maybe I need a new hobby.

[CentralMass]

33. Don't we all.

[cwydro]

36. Yup.

I remember that too.

[redqueen]

43. Ugh, i had actually managed to forget about that. nt

[IndyOp]

21. Most Rhodes' Scholars are well-spoken.

And Bloomberg is a racist ass-hat.

[still_one]

22. Here is the exact quote and context

"Cory Booker endorsed me a number of times and I endorsed Cory Booker a number of times," Bloomberg told King. "He's very well-spoken. He's got some good ideas. It would be better the more diverse any group is. But the public is out there picking and choosing and narrowing down this field."

Bloomberg did apologize though because Booker took it in a negative way

[msongs]

23. how's booker's plan to gain ground within the AA community going? nt

[StarfishSaver]

24. What does this have to do with the OP or Bloomberg's comment?

[iscooterliberally]

27. Well bless Bloomberg's heart for that one.

[loyalsister]

34. Well spokeness is a given among US senators - or should be

Oratory is part of the institution. We know this, and take it for granted when it is white people. That Bloomberg made the observation as if it was a unique characteristic was not mean spirited, but it did reveal that Bloomberg does not take it for granted even when Booker is a US Senator.

[dsc]

42. It might should be but it isn't always

the fact is Booker is a better orator than many of the candidates. He definitely is a better speaker than Klobuchar for example. He also is better than many senators. That said, I get why it is a problematic thing for Bloomberg to have said given history.

[loyalsister]

45. As I said in another thread it's very similar to birtherism

We have never questioned whether white presidents and candidates know the basic qualifications for presidency when they decide to run. It was generally taken for granted that they have done their homework and know they meet qualifications- until Obama was elected. When people of color are automatically given the deficit of the doubt in rather the benefit of the doubt, it is pure unadulterated white supremacy. Bloomberg's comment confirmed/revealed his white supremacist leanings. He has had a lot of years to put some effort into self reflection on why he would make the assumption he made and apparently has not considered it to be worth his time or effort.

[StarfishSaver]

57. He didn't say he was a better orator than other senators

Being well-spoken just means he can express himself well, a basic skill anyone in public life is expected to have and a quality that is rarely commented on about white people.

[treestar]

54. I am not sure I agree with that

Hell, Biden was a US Senator for years and he is said to make gaffes.

I'm sure we could find many missteps from Senators. The smaller the state, the lesser the pool they are picking from, so some pretty badly spoken people could make it.

[StarfishSaver]

61. Your terminology counters your argument and proved the point we're making

You call it a "misstep" when they aren't well-spoken - because it's an exception, an aberration. Senators are expected to be well-spoken. It's not remarkable or even worth noting when they are, because that's what they're SUPPOSED to be. It's when they aren't that we take notice. We call it a "gaffe" because they diverge from the norm.

Booker having the communication skills expected of a US Senator is not worthy of note.

[UniteFightBack]

39. So if anybody says a black person is well spoken it's automatically a trope? I think we need to

take into account whom is saying it and how (context). Give me a fucking break.

[StarfishSaver]

41. People are taking into account who said it and the context in which he said it

That's why we know that what he said is a problem.

[Humanist_Activist]

44. Given the context, yes. n/t

[Joe941]

59. Didnt Biden say the same about obama.

[JoeOtterbein]

62. I remember it was very similar.

It was not very smart. I remember that.

[StarfishSaver]

68. And 11 years later, some people STILL can't (or refuse to) understand why that is.

[JoeOtterbein]

69. Some people go back to when Bush lied us into the iraq War

And are still angry as hell about it. Like me.