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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
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Wendell Potter:It brings me no joy that my hunch that @petebuttigieg advised Blue Cross Blue Shield (Original Post) BeckyDem Dec 2019 OP
That's some impressive speculation. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #1
He has more than a clue. but thanks for your concern. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #2
No, he really doesn't. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #25
No, he actually has a conclusion based on his experience with their system. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #27
No, he has a conclusion based on his time with Cigna. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #31
Nonsense. lol BeckyDem Dec 2019 #33
Yes, because they all operate the same way, ALL the time. Of course! oldsoftie Dec 2019 #37
Worlds apart when convenient. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #39
Which is the point that Twilight was trying to make, I believe. oldsoftie Dec 2019 #50
Is Pete moving obnoxiousdrunk Dec 2019 #30
What's wrong with advising them? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #3
I have a big problem with the end result. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #4
Do you know what the end result was? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #5
Layoffs and rate hikes. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #7
What did Pete have to do with that? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #9
You can read the thread posted or not. It is about Potters experince with their BeckyDem Dec 2019 #12
Potter didn't work for BCBS. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #26
lol BeckyDem Dec 2019 #28
You said it. INSANE to deny this sharedvalues Dec 2019 #40
Thank you. Some may understand it but prefer to call it something else. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #55
Well he laid off public works employees in South Bend and referred to it as "right sizing" Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2019 #14
What does that have to do with the work he did with BCBS as a consultant? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #21
Agreed. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #32
People, come on! sharedvalues Dec 2019 #41
Read it and weep - the changes that promoted Backseat Driver Dec 2019 #29
Thaat's a shame loyalsister Dec 2019 #6
I'm afraid so. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #8
You do know that Mr.Bill Dec 2019 #11
And he has been fighting them for the last decade BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #17
But it was all good while he was cashing their paychecks. Mr.Bill Dec 2019 #18
Welcome people to our side when they see the light sharedvalues Dec 2019 #42
Yep loyalsister Dec 2019 #20
Funny, that's similar to what Pete Buttigieg said about working for McKinsey crimycarny Dec 2019 #24
yay loyalsister Dec 2019 #36
McKinsey consultants serve the rich and powerful. dalton99a Dec 2019 #56
He'll probably just react by smearing Warren's quarter-century old corporate work BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #10
Yea, that is a good point. Time will tell. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #13
next we will hear he spent years supporting the republican conservative business agenda. msongs Dec 2019 #15
Oh puhleeze! crimycarny Dec 2019 #16
Yea, seriously. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #19
Sounds like Mayor Pete was engaged mostly in cost analysis. Aaron Pereira Dec 2019 #22
Yep, he has a different perspective now. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #23
I've got BC-BS and have had excellent service from them. I was on BC-BS comradebillyboy Dec 2019 #34
Which completely misses the point of the work he was hired to do there. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #35
He consulted for BCBS. I'm perfectly OK with that... comradebillyboy Dec 2019 #38
I know plenty of people who worked for McKinsey sharedvalues Dec 2019 #45
Silly to attack anyone for assignment at first corporate job out of college lostnfound Dec 2019 #48
Revealing, not silly. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #53
Right on, thank you! sharedvalues Dec 2019 #43
Clear speculation but as stated I don't have an issue with it. TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #44
Tweet is right on. I worked at a similar consulting firm sharedvalues Dec 2019 #46
"Right on" "similar" "speculation" "very likely" "can be verified" TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #52
He worked for a living? Generic Brad Dec 2019 #47
And got a glimpse into corporate life at a couple of industries? lostnfound Dec 2019 #49
Yes, gawd forbid a 25-year-old actually finds a job. R B Garr Dec 2019 #51
McKinsey consultants are hired to better the lives of corporate owners, not employees. dalton99a Dec 2019 #54
Too many assumptions. I've been with BCBS for a long time and ecstatic Dec 2019 #57
No, not assumptions at all. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #58
The assumption is that Buttigieg instructed BCBS ecstatic Dec 2019 #59
His work had a purpose, denying it is mistake. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #60
So you fault him for accepting a job at McKinsey? Or for not quitting when client was assigned? lostnfound Dec 2019 #62
I'm not sure why anyone would think he was not aware of their function. BeckyDem Dec 2019 #63
He assumes that many of us give a damn The Mouth Dec 2019 #61
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
1. That's some impressive speculation.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:21 PM
Dec 2019

He has no idea what Buttigieg did for BCBS, but he'll act as though he does anyway. Impressive.

This kind of nonsense doesn't accomplish anything. Perhaps we should wait until someone who has a clue provides real information before passing judgment.

Nah.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
2. He has more than a clue. but thanks for your concern.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:25 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
25. No, he really doesn't.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:14 PM
Dec 2019

He even admits it in the thread, if you actually bothered to read it. It's 100% speculation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
27. No, he actually has a conclusion based on his experience with their system.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:20 PM
Dec 2019

You can deny it all you like, but Potters words are clear.

7 posts of descriptions within the thread.

It brings me no joy that my hunch that @petebuttigieg advised Blue Cross Blue Shield in the run-up to layoffs and rate hikes, was revealed to be right.

Campaign spin aside, as a former insurance exec I know what that work really entails, and it is devastating. (1/7)


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
31. No, he has a conclusion based on his time with Cigna.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:37 PM
Dec 2019

You clearly haven't read the thread or you'd understand that. He makes several references to how *his* company, which was Cigna, operated, and his assumptions are based on those experiences.

If you're going to post, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the material first and not just the first portion.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
33. Nonsense. lol
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:41 PM
Dec 2019

Potter is abundantly clear, "HIS" company experience is not an exception. Good luck.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oldsoftie

(12,410 posts)
37. Yes, because they all operate the same way, ALL the time. Of course!
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:25 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
39. Worlds apart when convenient.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:29 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oldsoftie

(12,410 posts)
50. Which is the point that Twilight was trying to make, I believe.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 08:39 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obnoxiousdrunk

(2,906 posts)
30. Is Pete moving
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:33 PM
Dec 2019

up in the polls ? That would explain it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
3. What's wrong with advising them?
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:26 PM
Dec 2019

In my career, I've worked with and advised many large corporations. Usually it was in connection with their corporate responsibility, diversity efforts, community outreach, etc. I'm very proud of that work and gratified that I helped them do better in these areas.

In other words, I have no problem with Pete working with these major companies because the corporate world needs more people like him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
4. I have a big problem with the end result.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:27 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
5. Do you know what the end result was?
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:29 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
7. Layoffs and rate hikes.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:30 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
9. What did Pete have to do with that?
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:32 PM
Dec 2019

Or do you assume anyone who does any work at all with the company - including its outside consultants - are responsible for all corporate decisions?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
12. You can read the thread posted or not. It is about Potters experince with their
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:38 PM
Dec 2019

process and the role Buttigieg played.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
26. Potter didn't work for BCBS.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:17 PM
Dec 2019

He worked for Cigna. He's trying to extrapolate his experience as an executive/self-described hack at Cigna to Buttigieg's time at BCBS.

He has zero first-hand knowledge of Buttigieg's time at BCBS.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
40. You said it. INSANE to deny this
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:16 AM
Dec 2019

Anyone with any knowledge of McKinsey, Bain, BCG knows that this is a BIG part of the work they do:
Recommending who to fire.

At this point if you’re denying that Pete advised BCBG how to fire people... then frankly I don’t think you understand much at all about how corporations work. (Keep in mind that only big corps hire McK— small companies can’t afford them.)

Ex-insurance exec guy is right on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
55. Thank you. Some may understand it but prefer to call it something else.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 10:37 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
14. Well he laid off public works employees in South Bend and referred to it as "right sizing"
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:40 PM
Dec 2019

He replaced the “right sized” sanitation workers with robot arms and said it was great for workplace injuries.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
21. What does that have to do with the work he did with BCBS as a consultant?
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:59 PM
Dec 2019

It sounds to me like some people who don't like Pete are trying to muddy the waters.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
32. Agreed.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:40 PM
Dec 2019

Some also didn't bother actually reading the thread. He's extrapolating his experience at Cigna, as an executive, to Pete's experience at BCBS in a different role. People are assuming he has first-hand knowledge of Pete's time at BCBS, but he doesn't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
41. People, come on!
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:18 AM
Dec 2019

This is what McKinsey does, in almost EVERY INDUSTRY, not just in insurance. Big corps hire them to recommend cuts so the execs have plausible deniability.

It’s almost a certainty Pete worked on a team deciding who to fire. If not with this client, with another one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Backseat Driver

(4,336 posts)
29. Read it and weep - the changes that promoted
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:31 PM
Dec 2019

the switch to "for-profit" started long before Pete came to do some analysis in Michigan, IF this is where he landed. It's a pretty messy story in some states, I can tell you from personal experience that still bring tears, but the stories are buried deep behind subscription newspaper archives. Fierce cost-cutting inside, and paid TV advertising thrown at the public. The early and mid 80s brought many changes to a lot of long-time employees with families.

https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/yourhealthdollar.org_blue-cross-history-compilation.pdf

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
6. Thaat's a shame
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:29 PM
Dec 2019

I had higher hopes for him. Insurance companies are rotten. The motive is profit and they trade in speculating and facilitating death for profit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Mr.Bill

(24,103 posts)
11. You do know that
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:37 PM
Dec 2019

Wendell Potter spent much of his career working for CIGNA, one of those rotten insurance companies, right?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
17. And he has been fighting them for the last decade
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:44 PM
Dec 2019

His experience makes him most effective. Anyone who actually cares about HC reform should be grateful to him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Mr.Bill

(24,103 posts)
18. But it was all good while he was cashing their paychecks.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:49 PM
Dec 2019

They didn't turn bad the moment he retired. My sister-in-law is a retired CIGNA VP. She was there when he was.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
42. Welcome people to our side when they see the light
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:19 AM
Dec 2019

That’s a message I live by.

I welcome Max Boot too.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
20. Yep
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:51 PM
Dec 2019

That's how he gained the expertise to call them out. He does not honor that history and he does not hide or gloss over it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
24. Funny, that's similar to what Pete Buttigieg said about working for McKinsey
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:05 PM
Dec 2019

That it gave him important insights into how corporations work.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
36. yay
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:06 PM
Dec 2019

Sadly he has a history of pushing aside important historical lessons (ie urban renewal plans) when he has a personal success to gain. I trust him as much as the constituents who were on the losing end of the South Bend accomplishments he still loves to brag about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

dalton99a

(81,065 posts)
56. McKinsey consultants serve the rich and powerful.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 10:38 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
10. He'll probably just react by smearing Warren's quarter-century old corporate work
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:34 PM
Dec 2019

His problem is Warren has for many years built a track record of standing up for people and getting things done for them in Washington on a very large scale. Pivotal time for him. If he defends himself and avoids lashing out at others he’ll be much better off in the long run.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
13. Yea, that is a good point. Time will tell.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:39 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

msongs

(67,193 posts)
15. next we will hear he spent years supporting the republican conservative business agenda.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:40 PM
Dec 2019

oh wait, that was someone else lol

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
16. Oh puhleeze!
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 09:43 PM
Dec 2019

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY??? Digging up the fact that in 2007, when Pete Buttigieg graduated from Oxford he went to work for McKinsey as one of his first jobs?

Maybe read this article for some perspective.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/12/pete-buttigieg-mckinsey/603421/

Warren herself hired McKinsey:

"In 1999, when Warren was chairing a committee at Harvard Law looking to improve student experience, she hired McKinsey for a contract worth upwards of $1 million, creating backlash among students at the time."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Aaron Pereira

(383 posts)
22. Sounds like Mayor Pete was engaged mostly in cost analysis.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:00 PM
Dec 2019

Pete should understand more than anyone the problem with for profit health insurers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

comradebillyboy

(10,119 posts)
34. I've got BC-BS and have had excellent service from them. I was on BC-BS
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:01 PM
Dec 2019

before I got Medicare and now BC-BS is my supplemental policy. My overall coverage is just excellent.

I just can't bring myself to hate corporations. I certainly don't think working for a corporation disqualifies a person from elective office.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
35. Which completely misses the point of the work he was hired to do there.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:05 PM
Dec 2019

His disclosure of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan as a past client followed speculation on Twitter from Wendell Potter, a former health insurance executive who now advocates for Medicare for All, that the company was the nonprofit health insurance provider Buttigieg had vaguely alluded to in his initial statement. Potter also noted that BCBS of Michigan had instituted layoffs in 2009, two years after Buttigieg worked on the project.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/pete-buttigieg-mckinsey-clients

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

comradebillyboy

(10,119 posts)
38. He consulted for BCBS. I'm perfectly OK with that...
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:27 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
45. I know plenty of people who worked for McKinsey
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:22 AM
Dec 2019

You shouldn’t be so sanguine.

Pete was young, McKinsey pushes a lot of people through.
But what he did there wasn’t great.
And he should be admitting it. He should be speaking openly about the problems at insurance companies and about the work he did for them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lostnfound

(16,138 posts)
48. Silly to attack anyone for assignment at first corporate job out of college
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 07:31 AM
Dec 2019

He went into public service. He went into the military. He could have spent a career just making money, and didn’t.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
53. Revealing, not silly.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 10:35 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
43. Right on, thank you!
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:20 AM
Dec 2019

Thanks for posting, BeckyDem. This is right on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
44. Clear speculation but as stated I don't have an issue with it.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:22 AM
Dec 2019

Pretty sure this guy “supports” candidates, he doesn’t “endorse” candidates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
46. Tweet is right on. I worked at a similar consulting firm
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:23 AM
Dec 2019

It’s Informed speculation... that is very likely correct as can be verified with anyone who knows anything about McKinsey

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
52. "Right on" "similar" "speculation" "very likely" "can be verified"
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 09:47 AM
Dec 2019

You just knocked it out of the park. My jaw went to the floor. Superb.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Generic Brad

(14,270 posts)
47. He worked for a living?
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 01:31 AM
Dec 2019

Where is my fainting chair? I do believe I have a case of the vapors!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lostnfound

(16,138 posts)
49. And got a glimpse into corporate life at a couple of industries?
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 07:34 AM
Dec 2019

Sounds good to me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
51. Yes, gawd forbid a 25-year-old actually finds a job.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 09:40 AM
Dec 2019

And doesn’t Medicare for All tout eliminating jobs to streamline costs, in other words, hurting workers. I bet those Data entry workers aren’t evil just because “corporations”.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dalton99a

(81,065 posts)
54. McKinsey consultants are hired to better the lives of corporate owners, not employees.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 10:37 AM
Dec 2019



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ecstatic

(32,566 posts)
57. Too many assumptions. I've been with BCBS for a long time and
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:27 AM
Dec 2019

rate hikes are their thing. That can't be pinned on Buttigieg. I don't like the guilt by association thing. We're smarter than that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
58. No, not assumptions at all.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:30 AM
Dec 2019

Potter also noted that BCBS of Michigan had instituted layoffs in 2009, two years after Buttigieg worked on the project.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/pete-buttigieg-mckinsey-clients

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ecstatic

(32,566 posts)
59. The assumption is that Buttigieg instructed BCBS
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:41 AM
Dec 2019

to lay of workers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
60. His work had a purpose, denying it is mistake.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:47 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lostnfound

(16,138 posts)
62. So you fault him for accepting a job at McKinsey? Or for not quitting when client was assigned?
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 04:26 PM
Dec 2019

Most of us knew little or nothing about corporate world when we took our first jobs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
63. I'm not sure why anyone would think he was not aware of their function.
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 05:38 PM
Dec 2019

His policy position on health care makes more sense to me since learning about his time there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Mouth

(3,123 posts)
61. He assumes that many of us give a damn
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:55 AM
Dec 2019

He's wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Wendell Potter:It brings ...