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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

gulliver

(13,142 posts)
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 11:44 PM Dec 2019

Buttigieg is right. There's nothing wrong with (all) large donations.

It depends on who gives the money and what they give it for. As Buttiegieg brilliantly pointed out, if Warren wrote him a big check, it would not be wrong. It would be a good thing for the Dem cause.

I see nothing inherently wrong with a Dem giving speeches for big money before crowds of rich people. There's nothing inherently wrong with a pro-Dem PAC taking in piles of million dollar checks. I don't care how many or how often. I don't care if a candidate has a private meeting with a hundred ten-million dollar Dem "bundlers." My default assumption is that the money's going to a good cause. In other words, absent proof of any corruption, Dems taking money is a good thing. We need to stop being so self-destructively, reflexively squeamish about donations to Dems. That's what Republicans want us to do.

What about "getting the money out of politics?" Sure, that would get a lot of corruption out of politics, but nearly all of it would be coming out of Republican politics. That's where the corruption is. Get rid of all of the money, and you get rid of Republican corrupt money along with non-corrupt Dem money. That's fine. But until we get rid of money in politics, Dems need to have it too. Anything else is unilateral surrender by the good guys.

I'm frankly sick and tired of any Dem, under any circumstances, implying the existence of any money corruption whatsoever associated with any other Dem. If I never hear it again, it will be too soon. It's essentially always just a groundless cheap shot masquerading as ethics. If some illiberal, anti-Progressive "quid pro quo" strings are conclusively, provably found to be attached to specific money, speak up about it, by all means. Otherwise, no Dem should ever trust anyone pushing unfounded suspicions about other Dems.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Buttigieg is right. There's nothing wrong with (all) large donations. (Original Post) gulliver Dec 2019 OP
I would agree IF.... JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #1
I agree.. thank you, gulliver. don't like the Cha Dec 2019 #2
Agree. This winecavepete thing is going to bite warren and everyone else in their ass know why? dsp3000 Dec 2019 #3
I think the problem is politicians who take the shortcut of forgotmylogin Dec 2019 #16
This! unitedwethrive Dec 2019 #4
Absolutely. boomer_wv Dec 2019 #6
K&R BootinUp Dec 2019 #5
Those rich people don't give money Bettie Dec 2019 #7
As mentioned on MSNBC - Warren had major fund raising event last year question everything Dec 2019 #9
Even a billionaire or millionaires like those on the stage Hav Dec 2019 #10
Absolutely, an investment Raine Dec 2019 #11
What do you think they'll get for that huge "investment"? Hav Dec 2019 #12
No, that's not how it works Recursion Dec 2019 #13
That's not completely true Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #19
No one gives money without expecting Skidmore Dec 2019 #22
no shit evertonfc Dec 2019 #8
Citizens United doesn't address fundraising Recursion Dec 2019 #14
Citizens United made Super PACS and Dark Money possible Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #18
Speechnow was the case that made Super PACs possible Recursion Dec 2019 #20
You're being disingenuous and you know it Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #21
I mean, no? It didn't particularly "explode" Recursion Dec 2019 #23
As a Yang supporter, I'd figure you'd respect the MATH: Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #24
I know it takes a lot of money in our current system to get elected. Dustlawyer Dec 2019 #15
What nobody talked about specifically was the bundling, Super PACS, and Dark Money Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #17
I understand and have shared the basic perspective. David__77 Dec 2019 #25
I have met both Clinton and Biden at these types of events Gothmog Dec 2019 #26
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,697 posts)
1. I would agree IF....
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 11:46 PM
Dec 2019

....I got a few big bucks too when I'm behind.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
2. I agree.. thank you, gulliver. don't like the
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 11:46 PM
Dec 2019

purity money trips.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dsp3000

(468 posts)
3. Agree. This winecavepete thing is going to bite warren and everyone else in their ass know why?
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 11:46 PM
Dec 2019

Do you think trump is only going to take small donations?

GET REAL. these purity tests need to die NOW.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

forgotmylogin

(7,496 posts)
16. I think the problem is politicians who take the shortcut of
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 01:43 AM
Dec 2019

...favoring large donors over small ones. That's how people get out of touch.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

unitedwethrive

(1,997 posts)
4. This!
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 11:49 PM
Dec 2019

The presence of large money donations does not in itself cause corruption. It is up to the voter to judge the character of a candidate, and how they will deal with such issues.

The Republicans have many, many large donors, and in order to keep up, we need to as well.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

boomer_wv

(673 posts)
6. Absolutely.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 11:54 PM
Dec 2019

Instead of demanding that candidates refuse to take money from large donors, let's vote for candidates that we trust to take large donations and not be corrupt.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bettie

(15,995 posts)
7. Those rich people don't give money
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 11:59 PM
Dec 2019

without expecting a return on their investments.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

question everything

(47,263 posts)
9. As mentioned on MSNBC - Warren had major fund raising event last year
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:12 AM
Dec 2019

And transferred all to her current campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hav

(5,969 posts)
10. Even a billionaire or millionaires like those on the stage
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:15 AM
Dec 2019

can only donate the allowed maximum. It's just easier for them to part with what is nothing for them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Raine

(30,540 posts)
11. Absolutely, an investment
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:16 AM
Dec 2019

not a donation and they certainly expect a return on that investment..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hav

(5,969 posts)
12. What do you think they'll get for that huge "investment"?
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:21 AM
Dec 2019

For example, what kind of influence do they get for the 900$ that Pete got attacked for?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
13. No, that's not how it works
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:39 AM
Dec 2019

Donors don't find unsuspecting politicians, give them money, and then expect to change the politicians' minds about things.

Donors find politicians who already agree with them, and give them money with which they buy ads to change our minds about things. The target of money in politics isn't politicians; it's us.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
19. That's not completely true
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:10 AM
Dec 2019

Investment bankers are a good example, often switching support between Republicans and Democrats- that's definitely not because they find candidates who already agree with them, but seek those who will grant them the most access and influence, and who are the most likely to win that cycle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
22. No one gives money without expecting
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:17 AM
Dec 2019

that the candidate represents what they believe, even those who contribute a few dollars on Act Blue. It breaks down when people set contributions as the sole measure of a candidate or purity tests as being the only criteria for support. Look at the effects of Grover Norquist's and the Club for Growth's no tax pledges on the Republican party. I don't think unilaterally disarming ahead of the general election coming up or insisting on ideological purity are productive.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

evertonfc

(1,713 posts)
8. no shit
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:06 AM
Dec 2019

You need cash to beat Trump. He had 250 million in hand. Who gives a shit who gives you cash. A ridiculous argument after Citizens United.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
14. Citizens United doesn't address fundraising
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:40 AM
Dec 2019

Those are two totally separate questions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
18. Citizens United made Super PACS and Dark Money possible
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:05 AM
Dec 2019

It defined money as speech that can't be limited, and opened the floodgates for "uncoordinated " (wink, wink) fundraising.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
20. Speechnow was the case that made Super PACs possible
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:12 AM
Dec 2019

Speechnow was what allowed the formation of independent expenditures-only PACs (first created, interestingly, by the AFL-CIO). These can take corporate money and cannot donate to or coordinate with election campaigns.

Citizens United said that an individual can buy advertisements for a media piece about a candidate as long as they don't do so in coordination with any campaign.

Dark money has existed since the 1971 Federal Election Campaign Act, though I suppose before that all money was "dark".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
21. You're being disingenuous and you know it
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:14 AM
Dec 2019

Dark Money exploded after Citizens United.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
23. I mean, no? It didn't particularly "explode"
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:20 AM
Dec 2019

It's been allowed since the 1970s (though SCOTUS thankfully closed a big loophole last year), and it has grown at about the same speed campaign spending in general has since then, which is mostly pegged to the price of television time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
24. As a Yang supporter, I'd figure you'd respect the MATH:
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:51 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
15. I know it takes a lot of money in our current system to get elected.
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 01:27 AM
Dec 2019

Once we have the power, then we need to get rid of donations altogether and have publicly funded elections.

As long as it is legal to donate the money the quid pro quo’s kick in after the victory. Special interests control our government. How many Wall Street bankers were jailed In the 2008 crash?They don’t own them all, but then again, they don’t have to.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
17. What nobody talked about specifically was the bundling, Super PACS, and Dark Money
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:03 AM
Dec 2019

Which were made possible by citizens United. There were several references made to the individual max contribution of $2800, but of course that's not the real problem. The Koch brothers and De Voss family and the Mercers all give millions - nobody talked about that, and that's really the issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

David__77

(23,214 posts)
25. I understand and have shared the basic perspective.
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 05:34 PM
Dec 2019

I also think that talking about it so clearly sets up those defending the practice of expensive meet and greets to potentially be considered as corrupt or elitist.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
26. I have met both Clinton and Biden at these types of events
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 05:58 PM
Dec 2019

I am also on the dialing for dollar list being used by several candidates and the DNC. It is part of the process.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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