Opponents outshine Bernie Sanders in sixth presidential debate

[TexasTowelie]

By Jon Margolis


For Bernie Sanders, the good news about Thursday’s candidate debate was that with only six opponents on stage, he had more chance to strut his stuff.

The bad news was that so did the other six, and a few of them were in better form than Vermont’s most celebrated political revolutionary.

Just as a performer, no one was in better form than Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, who was both more aggressive and more impressive than she had been in the five earlier debates.

At one point, she took on Sanders over his “Medicare for all” proposal that would abolish private health insurance plans. Turning to Sanders, who stood just to her right, she said a Democrat can be “progressive and practical at the same time” urging universal health care through expanding the Affordable Care Act instead of doing away with private insurance.

Read more: https://vtdigger.org/2019/12/20/opponents-outshine-bernie-sanders-in-sixth-presidential-debate/

[guillaumeb]

1. Private, for profit insurance is the problem.

Any solution that allows these for profit corporations to control pricing and access is no solution.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. Exactly!! Bernie drove that point home and won the debate in the process.

Last edited Sun Dec 22, 2019, 01:00 AM - Edit history (2)

No one even came close!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Come join the progressive revolution!!

[George II]

13. "And I'm a white man" and his wagging hand while Biden was speaking lost it for him.

[question everything]

40. I admit. It grates on me when Warren and Sanders pour their wrath on

“Millionaires” when I know that they have their millions that most of us will never even get close.

Sure, many wealthy individuals historically stood by the poor, worked and enacted laws to make life easier. Certainly the Roosevelts and the Kennedys did. But they never bad mouthed the wealthy the way Warren and Sanders do.

[BannonsLiver]

43. Yeah he actually didn't win the debate.

[George II]

14. Profit margin for "these for profit corporations" is between 3-5%, lower than most businesses...

...in the US, including the corner grocery store.

Facts matter.

[guillaumeb]

21. Canada spends 1/2 per person of what the US spends.

For better outcomes.

Yes, facts do matter.

The US is ranked 37th for a reason. And that fact matters as well, especially for the millions with no access to healthcare.

[George II]

24. Those numbers are skewed because they don't take into account the overall tax impositions...

...to account for that "1/2 per person".

Simple example (not real numbers, just an illustration):

Americans spend $10,000 per person, zero taxes

Canadians spend $5,000 per person, $6,000 taxes

What's the bottom line?

Americans pay $10,000, Canadians pay $11,000. Next?

[guillaumeb]

25. Incorrect.

But the insurance companies are spending billions to convince US citizens that insurance companies should remain in control.

[George II]

26. Okay.

[guillaumeb]

27. Sorry, but facts do matter.

Yes, in Canada, for any given income bracket, taxes are higher than in the US, but those taxes include healthcare spending. And when healthcare spending is allocated per province, the cost per capita is 1/2 that of US spending. Part of that is controlling drug prices to prevent the price gouging that is endemic to the US system.

[Demsrule86]

41. Canada does not include prescriptions in their healthcare...so there are

other costs.

[guillaumeb]

46. Drug prices are controlled.

Which means that component is also cheaper than in the US.

[Demsrule86]

56. It is still expensive.

[question everything]

39. There is more to pro choice than abortion

You can drop your private insurance and join the promised land of M4A, but let the rest of us keep ours - if we want to,

Funny, some of the arguments that we had about keeping the ACA was that “government should not take rights away” but this is precisely what M4A wants to do.

[guillaumeb]

49. No Federal health plan can offer abortion.

And many who claim to love their private insurance only use it for routine care. But when serious conditions arise, these people often find how limited their beloved private insurance is.

[question everything]

55. I use the abortion as an example of pro-choice

Well, some of us suffer major ailments and our private insurance paid everything.

[guillaumeb]

57. And medical costs are still the #1 reason people cite in filing for bankruptcy.

Being ranked 37th in the world is nothing to be proud about.

[booley]

3. Others clearly disagree

I understand people will have a bias when it comes to who won a political debate

Personally I am still wondering why the moderators keep giving Klobuchar so much speaking time when it hasnt' helped her move up in the polls at all. But I also admit I have a bias

However, Sanders did definitely make an impression and ignoring is probably a bad idea.

You don't have to like Frank Lutz. I sure don't
But its the people he is talking too that are important.

[TexasTowelie]

5. Strange.

Most columnists have a bias for their home state candidates.

I also find it amusing that you believe that Frank Luntz, the purveyor of RW talking points, is credible in any manner.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

9. Agreed. Only Jennifer Rubin, WAPO's right wing columnist, is credible around here.

I mean that right wing loony’s own personal opinion is credible. An actual focus group, not so much.

[TexasTowelie]

11. Focus groups are easily rigged.

They get paid for participating so I take their opinions with a grain of salt.

[George II]

15. Jennifer Rubin isn't a right wing columnist.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

17. Lol.

She literally wrote a column called The Right Turn blog

Jennifer Rubin is an American conservative columnist who writes the "Right Turn" blog for The Washington Post. Previously she worked at Commentary, PJ Media, Human Events, and The Weekly Standard. Her work has been published in media outlets including Politico, New York Post, New York Daily News, National Review, and The Jerusalem Post.

Her own former Ombudsman said she should be fired.

She nothing but an embarrassed repig who wants to stick her beak in our politics.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/08/ex-washington-post-ombudsman-fire-jennifer-rubin-170603

Patrick Pexton, who served as The Washington Post's ombudsman until March of this year, has written an open letter to incoming Post owner Jeff Bezos in which he calls on him to make editorial page editor Fred Hiatt fire Jennifer Rubin, the paper's conservative columnist.

"Have Fred Hiatt, your editorial page editor — who I like, admire, and respect — fire opinion blogger Jennifer Rubin. Not because she’s conservative, but because she’s just plain bad," Pexton writes in the letter, which was published by Washington City Paper.

"She doesn’t travel within a hundred miles of Post standards," Pexton argues. "She parrots and peddles every silly right-wing theory to come down the pike in transparent attempts to get Web hits. Her analysis of the conservative movement, which is a worthwhile and important beat that the Post should treat more seriously on its national pages, is shallow and predictable. Her columns, at best, are political pornography; they get a quick but sure rise out of the right, but you feel bad afterward."

Pexton also used his letter to offer general business advice; praise new editor Marty Baron for making the Post "edgier, tougher, newsier, and more ambitious in national and local coverage"; and lament the decline of the Style section, which he said needed "a mission and someone to shape the vision."

[George II]

18. Luzd.

[guillaumeb]

22. Yes she is.

Facts matter.

[Cha]

35. How's this for a fact.. JR hates trump..she wants him GONE.

[kcr]

42. That hardly means she isn't a right winger

There are plenty of examples of conservatives who hate Trump.

[Cha]

45. So? never said she wasn't.

[guillaumeb]

47. True, but she is still a right wing columnist.

One might guess that Mitt Romney, and other GOP politicians, also hate Trump, but they are too cowardly to say anything.

[Cha]

48. Yes, but she's an ally in wanting #45IMPEACHED GONE.

[guillaumeb]

51. And we both welcome those allies.

As we realize that these allies are still conservatives, and that significant differences exist.

[Cha]

52. Of course.. and I welcome all the help

we can get.

[Cha]

34. Jennifer Rubin is a #NEVER#45IMPEACHED.. she Hates

trump.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

36. Yeah, like I said, she's an embarrassed repig who should fix her own party

These people support 40 years of Reaganism. They support Bush during illegal wars. They support republicans using racism and homophobia to gain power.

But trump is just too much. We are supposed to respect them? Fuck that.

[Cha]

37. JR Wants #45IMPEACHED GONE.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. Luntz's focus group is right on the money... so many people I know are comin over to Bernie.

The #1 reason I hear from them is that Bernie is genuine and passionate in articulating his vision for America's future and can be trusted to fight for that vision because he can't be bought.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Time for all to join the progressive revolution!!

[TexasTowelie]

54. You should get out more.

I've been on three different college campuses in the past two months. There is no stampede to support Bernie--most of the comments that I've heard is that his ideas were rejected in the 60s and they are no more valid today than they were then.

[BannonsLiver]

44. Frank Luntz LOL

[crazytown]

4. And yet, going by 538's polling, 40% were actively considering Sanders

as nominee compared with 14% for Klobuchar. Amy was up 6% but way behind.

[ritapria]

6. That is not the way the voters saw it

The percentage of Democratic voters considering a vote for Bernie went up - not down; according post-debate polling sponsored by … 538 ...He did very well in the LA Times sponsored Frank Luntz focus group ….He had 6 supporters in the 25 member focus group … 14 of the 25 thought he won the debate …..Luntz videotaped the results ...I saw them raise their hands ... Are the LA Times in on the conspiracy as well ? ………..

[TexasTowelie]

8. So when has any focus group sponsored by Frank Luntz ever been considered credible?

I'm surprised that you would fall for such nonsense.

[vsrazdem]

10. It's funny how when Lunts focus groups don't like trump, I don't hear "It's not credible."

[TexasTowelie]

12. It's funny that somehow this one focus group is somehow more important

than any other group.

[vsrazdem]

20. I don't think it is.

[redstateblues]

30. Nope. He has never been credible

[redstateblues]

28. Frank Luntz??? You are not serious.

His employers are promoting Bernie because they know he is too far left to win in the GE

[TomCADem]

33. It Says Something When Russians and Republicans Are Pushing Bernie...

...and his protege, Tulsi Gabbard.

[betsuni]

7. I liked how the moderator asked Bernie about his Afghanistan War vote.

After he yet again said that Biden "helped lead us" into the Iraq War. She said Bernie often brings up his Iraq War vote as evidence of his judgement on foreign policy, but he voted for the Afghanistan War and as recently as 2015 supported continued troop presence there. He said it was a mistake. Yes, some votes are mistakes. People make mistakes. I hope Bernie stops bringing up Biden's Iraq vote as some sort of evidence he's a big secret warmonger or something.

I loved Klobuchar's comment that nobody has a monopoly on bold ideas, directed at Bernie, that if you want to cross a river you build a bridge, not blow it up. And Pete's reply to Warren's insinuation of corruption by a wine cave, that she's using money from the same kind of fundraisers: "Did it corrupt you? Of course not!" These stupid purity tests have no place in this election. Easy to turn it right back around at them and then it's wasting time that could be used to talk about real things: "I did not come here to listen to this argument. I came here to make a case for progress." On the other hand, if one doesn't push back when accused of corruption or warmongering and so on, it'll never stop and become a "Crooked Hillary" situation for our candidate in the general election.

[Cha]

38. Wow, Zingers from Sen Klobuchar!

I loved Klobuchar's comment that nobody has a monopoly on bold ideas, directed at Bernie, that if you want to cross a river you build a bridge, not blow it up. And Pete's reply to Warren's insinuation of corruption by a wine cave, that she's using money from the same kind of fundraisers: "Did it corrupt you? Of course not!"

Both very pertinent! And, I will be passing them on.. so, Mahalo, betsuni!

[Tarheel_Dem]

16. This is good news. n/t

[Cha]

19. They Sure Did! Good on Amy!

[redstateblues]

29. Sure do like me some Amy. Glad she is surging

[Cha]

31. I appreciate her calling out BS..

Klobuchar didn’t limit her criticism to Buttigieg on Thursday night. Turning to Sen. Bernie Sanders, she said a Democrat can be “progressive and practical at the same time,” criticizing him for his “Medicare for All” proposal and advocating for the country to build on the Affordable Care Act instead.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/klobuchar-debate-performance-highlights-088531

[Gothmog]

23. sanders hometown paper does a good job describing this debate

[NYMinute]

50. Hell, yes!

[apcalc]

53. Amy has good ideas and is practical.

I like her.