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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:13 PM

 

An uncomfortable truth about "Angry Black Women" in politics


Just a point of order: Kamala Harris couldn't have gone after anyone on that stage like Amy Klobuchar did w/o getting the "angry" stereotype all too often given to Black women who assert ourselves
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply An uncomfortable truth about "Angry Black Women" in politics (Original post)
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 OP
Lucky Luciano Dec 2019 #1
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #4
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #13
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #16
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #18
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #21
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #23
brush Dec 2019 #22
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #24
brush Dec 2019 #25
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #26
brush Dec 2019 #27
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #30
brush Dec 2019 #32
Andy823 Dec 2019 #75
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #33
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #35
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #47
emmaverybo Dec 2019 #44
PunkinPi Dec 2019 #36
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #39
PunkinPi Dec 2019 #40
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #41
PunkinPi Dec 2019 #45
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #46
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #64
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #2
mcar Dec 2019 #7
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #9
mcar Dec 2019 #12
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #15
mcar Dec 2019 #19
Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #56
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #57
Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #81
mcar Dec 2019 #82
Andy823 Dec 2019 #74
mcar Dec 2019 #83
SMC22307 Dec 2019 #3
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #5
SMC22307 Dec 2019 #10
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #14
SMC22307 Dec 2019 #17
abqtommy Dec 2019 #6
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #8
abqtommy Dec 2019 #11
WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2019 #20
OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #28
spicysista Dec 2019 #29
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #31
spicysista Dec 2019 #34
Skya Rhen Dec 2019 #37
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #38
Skya Rhen Dec 2019 #48
tonedevil Dec 2019 #49
Skya Rhen Dec 2019 #50
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #52
Skya Rhen Dec 2019 #53
tonedevil Dec 2019 #54
Skya Rhen Dec 2019 #59
tonedevil Dec 2019 #60
Skya Rhen Dec 2019 #61
tonedevil Dec 2019 #62
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #67
ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #42
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #43
pbmus Dec 2019 #51
Joe941 Dec 2019 #55
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #58
DrToast Dec 2019 #63
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #65
DrToast Dec 2019 #66
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #68
DrToast Dec 2019 #69
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #70
DrToast Dec 2019 #72
emmaverybo Dec 2019 #71
DrToast Dec 2019 #73
Skya Rhen Dec 2019 #77
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #80
emmaverybo Dec 2019 #84
emmaverybo Dec 2019 #85
Hav Dec 2019 #76
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #78
MaryMagdaline Dec 2019 #79

Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:38 PM

1. Didn't she go after Biden at the first debate?

 

I didn’t watch the debates. Only read about them later, so maybe the tone from Amy K was different?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:55 PM

4. She didn't "go after" Biden any more aggressively than Any "went after" Pete

 

That's the point. Assertive black women are seen as overly-aggressive, hostile, and angry, even when their tone is nothing of the kind.

If you go back and look at the video of the first debate, you'll see that Kamala was calm and soft-spoken - infact, she was much quieter and more laid back than Amy was the other night.

The "tone" is in the eye of the beholder - people read black women's tone differently than they read the same tone in white women or men.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:15 PM

13. She did. She suggested that Joe Biden was a racist in the debate...

 

which was a bridge too far.

Harris needed to be held accountable for her words just like any other candidate. And she was.

It is false to lay the negative reactions to her attack to her mixed ethnic background. Nor to lay it off on "tone." Her words were reprehensible and she paid the price. That's justice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:25 PM

16. She suggested no such thing

 

But your mischaracterization illustrates the point of my OP, so thank you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:28 PM

18. I beg to differ. I saw the debate with my own eyes.

 

Harris deserved the backlash her attack generated. It was uncalled for. The fault was hers alone.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:47 PM

21. Sure

 

And God forbid you even consider the possibility that anyone might be judging her differently because, although virtually every human engaged in implicit bias, it's absolutely unthinkable that could have been at play here.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:59 PM

23. You are making an accusation that is untrue, quite ugly, and offensive.

 

Please retract.
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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:53 PM

22. Faulty memory? She called out Biden for reminiscing fondly of working...

 

with segregationists who called him son and black men boy.

Your seemed to have forgotten that part. And she did him a favor as he learned not to keep repeating that story, which is why he's kept black support and his frontrunner status.

Some whites seem to remember things differently than the actual context of the event. It's called hearing and remembering what you want to.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to brush (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:03 PM

24. Nah. Joe Biden has overwhelming support in th black community because they

 

know exactly who he is, and have for a very long time.

Harris had no support for her false attack and her numbers plummeted directly as a result.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:11 PM

25. You missed the point completely again.

 

Last edited Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

He would've lost much black support he had kept telling that story about "...they called me son and black men boy."

Wake up! Have you know knowledge of how insulting that is to African Americans?

And have you also not noticed he stopped repeating that story immediately. Harris did him a favor.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to brush (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:18 PM

26. The evidence of Joe Biden's long and enduring popularity

 

in the African American community speaks volumes to me.

I have zero concerns about his relationship with a core constitutionally that knows his character.

To call Sen. Harris's attacks on him a "favor" borders on gaslighting.

Her campaign crumbled as a direct result of this blunder. Deservedly so.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:21 PM

27. You're consistent in missing points. You can't deny he stopped repeating the story...

 

though. Did he not?
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Response to brush (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:36 PM

30. "Missing the point" seems to be the point

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:43 PM

32. Yep, purposely.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brush (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:04 PM

75. +100

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:44 PM

33. The so-called "point" isn't valid.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 03:15 PM

35. Only to certain people, particularly those to whom it applies

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:10 PM

47. This is slander.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to brush (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:54 PM

44. You are ignoring the fact that Biden was referencing how the segregationist Senator referred to

 

senate colleagues, not to his use of son vs. boy in the larger world. He called Edward Kennedy “boy.” “Boy” is not exclusively used as a racial epithet. The term “good old boys” refers to the kind of white men who refer to other white men as boy.

In a non-racial context, it can be used as a friendly term, just as the Irish use the word “lad” or, more belittling, to express hierarchy as when a boss calls his clerk “boy” or a father his son, boy. The senator was putting Edward Kennedy in his place, not racially, but rather, as being less than he, the senator, in a ranking sense. As a racial epithet it is far more extreme in meaning and intent.

Biden should have anticipated how his story would be heard. He is simply not politically stupid enough though to have been referring to how the segregationist senator referred to black, as opposed to white men and making a joke of it. Nonetheless, he was short-sighted not to foresee that that would be many people’s understanding.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 03:46 PM

36. Maybe you should follow Joe Biden's lead and let it go already...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PunkinPi (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:15 PM

39. Take note: I didn't start this thread.

 

Got it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:21 PM

40. No you didn't, you commented in it and so did I.

 

Got it?
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Response to PunkinPi (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:23 PM

41. Right. So why the commentary?

 

I'm free to speak as much as you are.
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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:57 PM

45. No one claimed otherwise.

 

I commented because Biden isn't holding a grudge about what happened at that debate, however it seems to be a recurring issue with you. Presumably you respect Biden, and if he is the nominee, he said he would consider Senator Harris as his VP pick. For the sake of that possible outcome, you may want to let it go.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PunkinPi (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:09 PM

46. You are ascribing false attributions to me.

 

Kindly stop with this nonsense.

Not cool.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 08:49 PM

64. So very true SS... the double standards are as obvious as they are absurd in the extreme!!

 



Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Come join the progressive revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:40 PM

2. I saw Kamala Harris go after Joe Biden in that first debate.

 

I never got the impression that Senator Kamala Harris was afraid of anyone--or anything--and I do not think she was afraid of stereotypes either. The single most common thing that I heard after the first debate was something to the effect of:

"Damn! Did you see Harris go after Biden!"

Kamala Harris is simply fearless. It is just one of the many reasons I'd like Joe Biden to pick her as his VP should he win the nomination.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:58 PM

7. What I heard - here and elsewhere

 

was "how dare she go after Biden?" "He'll never pick her as VP after that vicious attack." Etc.

Starfish Saver is correct.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:59 PM

9. And she was "angry" and "yelling" and "too aggressive," etc.

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:07 PM

12. Yep

 

I will say, though, I've also seen a few posts here saying that Klobuchar's "meanness" turned them off.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to mcar (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:23 PM

15. True

 

Black women are judged more harshly than white women but women of any race are judged more critically than white men. A white man performing as Klobuchar did would be hailed as tough, passionate and unyielding.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:31 PM

19. You know it!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:59 PM

56. No she wasn't ...it was worse...she called him a racist...and acted like it was of the moment when

 

she planned the entire busing thing...with picture set to go on Twitter and t-shirts for sale...it was not a good look. He helped her win her Senate seat...it was a backstabbing thing to do IMHO. And it wasn't true...and she is not for busing either.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 07:03 PM

57. Here we go again

 

Except we're not.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:52 PM

81. She ran a bad campaign...and had she done better with AA voters in Carolina, she would still be in

 

the race. She did herself no good attacking Biden twice and she never addressed her time as DA and AG...this hurt her...I don't see racism here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:05 PM

82. And we're off

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:03 PM

74. Yes I heard the same thing

 

and the comments here seemed to get worse over the days after, and more full of false accusations. She was not angry, and she never called him a "racist". Some people here have a problem with "anyone" going after their chosen candidate.

What I saw was Biden was not prepared for the debate, and didn't have a response.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:09 PM

83. That's right

 

I'm glad to see Biden has gotten stronger in the debates but he was woefully unprepared for that one.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:47 PM

3. Right-wingers constantly accuse Dems of being angry and full of hate...

 

not just black women. A middle-of-the-road family member has started saying the same things ever since he started listening to right-wing radio. 12 Angry Dems. Angry Dems. Haters. Hell, they just attacked 16-year-old Greta Thunberg for being angry and needing to chill.

The division (pitting Klobuchar v. Harris as en example) isn't 'woke' and needs to stop -- these are attacks on all of us on the left side of the dial.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:56 PM

5. And many left-wingers accuse black women of being angry

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:05 PM

10. Such as?

 

Sanders is constantly accused of being angry and rude and waving his finger around when, interestingly, Pelosi does the same thing with her habit of pointing. IMPOTUS called her 'Nervous Nancy' and accused her of a meltdown when she schooled him in the White House.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:20 PM

14. Go back and read the comments here and elsewhere following the first debate

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:27 PM

17. Anonymous posters on a message board? LOL

 

Sure.

Harris wasn't doing well in her home state, and that wasn't because Klobuchar is 'allowed' to get angry. Many voters viewed Harris as going too far in her personal attack against Biden during the first debate and they let her know it. She blew it with that. But who knows, maybe she'll end up on the ticket as VP.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:57 PM

6. I think that there's justifiable anger. If anybody's entitled to be angry it's black people and

 

other POC. That would explain why the "stereotype" is redundant to me. That's my truth and it's not uncomfortable for me.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to abqtommy (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:58 PM

8. True. But we're accused of being angry regardless how calm and quiet we are

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:07 PM

11. I just said that there's justification! We all have to own our anger, no matter what the projections

 

Last edited Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:43 PM - Edit history (1)

of accusers are. Of course we get to determine whether accusations are valid or not. If valid then we might have to modify our thinking. But I don't think that happens very often. Many books have been written using this topic so I'll stop now...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:38 PM

20. K&R for the truth.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:22 PM

28. Absolutely true.

 

Black women are hit with hate and racism more than any other group. That's a fact.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:31 PM

29. Exactly.

 

The fragility demonstrated by folks after Kamala's exchange with Biden, further proved Ameshia's point. Even after Kamala explicitly said Biden is not a racist (during the exchange), many of our more fragile allies howled their disdain.
"How dare she?!?" "Who does she think she is!" " She has lost me, after this! "
The response to her debate performance was stunning to see.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to spicysista (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:41 PM

31. Black people usually have to preface any discussion of race with a white person with

 

Last edited Sat Dec 21, 2019, 03:13 PM - Edit history (1)

"I am NOT calling you a racist ..."

But then when we do, we are accused of calling them a racist anyway because explicitly saying we are NOT calling someone a racist means we are calling them a racist. I reality we're being told "You can only talk about race in the time, place, language and tone that WE decide is appropriate."

That exchange and the aftermath are studies in white fragility, privilege and entitlement; the eggshells that black people - especially women - have to walk on daily; and the presumption that any black woman who says more than "thank you for giving me the opportunity to be here and for all you have sacrificed for me and mine" is angry and accusatory.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:58 PM

34. It's all very tiring and all too true, StarfishSaver.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:00 PM

37. Harris attacked Biden - no one said she was angry. For a full month afterwards she was

 

the media’s darling and it was reflected in her surging to top tier. I remember all of this.

Other weaknesses in her campaign caused her to lose support.

She was never accused of being angry.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:12 PM

38. You surely know better than that

 

You were deeply involved in these discussions here at the time. I can't imagine you didn't see the number of people who called her angry, here and elsewhere.

Maybe you just forgot. But I haven't.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:06 PM

48. They, nor I, called her angry - because we knew that it was a pre-orchestrated performance. Some

 

called her calculating and mean-spirited but not angry. Anger typically comes from a place of sincerity - this was a rehearsed attack.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:09 PM

49. WOW...

 

just fucking wow.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:18 PM

50. Kamala's attack on Biden was months in the making (Politico)

 

She and her advisers assiduously plotted the attack — and how to capitalize on it afterward.

Kamala Harris’ campaign is spending the next three days trying to extend the best two hours of her political career.
Harris’ surprise cross-examination of frontrunner Joe Biden produced the third-biggest fundraising bonanza since her launch. The Democratic senator is working to capitalize ahead of a crucial second quarter fundraising deadline: She blanketed news shows with nearly a dozen TV appearances, and her digital team is pumping out clips and other reminders of her interrogating Biden, hoping that Democratic voters will envision her doing the same thing to Donald Trump.

“It’s a great springboard,” said Bakari Sellers, the former state lawmaker and top Harris surrogate in South Carolina, saying it would add rocket fuel to her end-of-quarter fundraising push. Sellers said he’s taken a just-you-wait approach with people who’ve questioned Harris’ stock. “Last night, everyone said ‘there it is right there.’ No one can describe what ‘it’ is. But now they know she has it.”


*******************************************************************************************

No organic anger there - just a perfectly executed performance.

Wow back at ya...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/kamala-harris-joe-biden-debate-1390383
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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:31 PM

52. "Months in the making"

 

Sheer genius for her and her team to spend months preparing to attack Biden for praising segregationists and then patiently lying in wait ready to spring whenever he got around to actually doing it.

I forgot how ridiculous and over-the-top the reaction to this incident was at the time.

And yes, some people did accuse her of being out-of-control and angry. And some others accused her of being calculated and cunning - also apparently a bad trait for certain candidates to display.

Wow, indeed.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:39 PM

53. "Calculating and cunning" were frequently used - never, ever saw "angry". Search for the posts and

 

share the links where she is described as being "angry".
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Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:39 PM

54. Heavens to Murgatroyd...

 

a political campaign planed what the candidate would say during a televised debate. I must say that is a shocking revelation. As the article you linked to points out about a week prior Biden gave her a wide opening by not only telling his folksy tale of working with the last of the Dixiecrats, but also screwing up the part where he is supposed to say he never called me Senator he called me son by substituting boy for Senator. Harris pointed out that she had benefited from being bussed I think her disagreement with Biden on that is sincere. For his part Biden hasn't trotted out the working with segregationists story since then.
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Undecided

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 07:12 PM

59. I've wasted enough time talking about a past, non-successful candidate. I'm back to focusing on the

 

frontrunner.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #59)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 07:26 PM

60. At least you were able to relive...

 

your disdain toward Senator Harris for old times sake.
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Undecided

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 07:29 PM

61. She failed to impress this black woman, and the majority of us. It's on her. Biden is succeeding

 

in that area.
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Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 07:39 PM

62. OK /nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:22 PM

67. You noticed that, too

 

The band got back together for an oldies reunion.
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:44 PM

42. Thought I'd check in to see the number of people who downplay race and racial perceptions

 

In American politics. As usual, it’s depressingly what I expected.
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Joe Biden

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:54 PM

43. Nothing to see here

 

How can we get over racism if you people keep talking about race?

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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:27 PM

51. We all should be....

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:47 PM

55. I recall she did go after Biden in the first debate.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 07:07 PM

58. And people are still going batshish about it nearly 6 months later

 

Thereby illustrating, in real time, the very point of the OP that "going after" an opponent subjects certain candidates to vilification not directed at certain other candidates who do the same thing.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 08:40 PM

63. Really? Cuz she went after Biden pretty hard and her polling doubled

 

But hey, don’t let facts get in the way.
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Response to DrToast (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:16 PM

65. And she was trashed for it. And, as you can see just in this thread, she's STILL

 

being vilified for "going after" Biden.
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #65)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:19 PM

66. No, she wasn't. It was a boost for her campaign.

 

And we know this because we have polling to see what happened.
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Response to DrToast (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:23 PM

68. She wasn't trashed for it?

 

Ok
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:26 PM

69. Let's see...

 

Should we evaluate the effects of political events through an unscientific analysis of random message board comments? Or should we just maybe consider scientific polling to see how well something was received?

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Response to DrToast (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:31 PM

70. I didn't realize the campaign ended the day after the debate

 

that Harris got nothing but cheers and accolades for "going after Biden" and that no one subsequently ever criticized her for it.

We all just imagined the criticism. We even imagined that people right here in this thread jumped on her for that incident.

Never mind.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:46 PM

72. It's not that you imagined the criticism

 

It’s that your overstate its prominence and significance.

You can find a small minority of people to have an opinion on just about anything. It doesn’t mean it represents the general opinion of the party.
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Response to DrToast (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:45 PM

71. She became a sensation overnight. MSNBC celebrated her by playing the confrontational scene

 

over and over, interviewing highly supportive guests, and giving short shrift to the one Biden campaign aide they gave a tiny slice of their airtime to. Yes, criticism set in when she said she had
planned her personalized challenge of Biden’s stance, but even then she continued to surge,

Certainly, Biden supporters, as would be expected, disliked her approach. Most Dems saw her as a real contender, however, the candidate who could beat Trump in debate, and roundly championed her for showing guts, brilliance, passion, and honesty. Here at DU, she was applauded for “giving it to him,” for proving she could take on an established, older man with some political stature and render him speechless, flustered.

Acclaim was much more the rule among liberals than was disapproval although with time, and her own revelation about rehearsal, more people voiced discomfort with her strategy.

Still, that debate moment launched her into a kind of celebrity on the national stage and drew more supporters to consider her a serious threat to Trump. Biden’s AA support took a hit, and it was thought that she would likely keep gaining AA endorsements and lead with the electorate.

What happened from there was not some retribution for bringing it to Biden so much as a combination of factors. As we have learned before, attention brings greater criticism while both the media and the public are fickle fingers, loving to cast down the very personalities they have elevated.








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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:47 PM

73. Exactly.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:12 PM

77. You recounted the actual events accurately, revision-free. Thanks for this!

 

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:34 PM

80. Funny - you criticized her relentlessly for days after that debate because she went after Biden

 

And now you're pretending that it was no big deal to you or anyone else at the time and your problem with her was that she failed to "impress" you.

You're having trouble keeping your story straight

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #80)


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:49 PM

85. Commented and self-deleted because mistakenly believed your claim addressed to me. But I

 

must say I certainly did criticize her severely at the time, as did some other Biden supporters, but we were not in the majority here or in the liberal and progressive community at large. Also, perceptions change over time, and are balanced by a wider consideration of a candidate’s many other behaviors. In general, won’t our reactions to debates be somewhat clouded by our own candidate preference at the time, and become altered as we more holistically view conduct over time?

I can’t speak for Skya of course, but I think you could have as easily called me out as pretending and telling a story, neither of which have I witnessed in most DUer’s comments, never in any comments I have read that Skya has made, ever.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:11 PM

76. Did I miss something?

 

I only saw the debate starting with Warren's zinger about being the youngest female President.
The only discussion I remember where Klobuchar was involved was with Pete about experience and that was very mild, especially in comparison to the Warren-Pete exchange. Klobuchar wasn't angry, she repeatedly made her point while Pete seemed to avoid her arguments to a degree.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:19 PM

78. Recommended.

 

Not to take away from the obvious point, but President Obama was also criticized when he showed anger.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:20 PM

79. It's starts with black girls getting detention, expulsion more than white girls

 

White girls are seen as more innocent. Goes straight into adulthood.
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