If Bernie Does Not Win Primary, Will His Campaign Work to Defeat the Democratic Nominee?

[TomCADem]

The one thing to understand about Bernie's "progressive" message is the idea that the reason why Trump was not Comey's 11th hour surprise, Russian interference, billions in dark money flowing to Republicans, or even Bernie's own role in sabotaging Hillary's chances by using the hacked emails to attack Hillary as evidence of the DNC primary being rigged.

Instead, the reason given by anti-anti-trump ("AAT&quot groups is that the losses are the fault of Democrats. Think Jill Stein, Cornel West or Tulsi Gabbard. Of course, to prove this theory, people who subscribe to this AAT view actively work to undermine the success of Democrats, because if they lose, then they claim they are vindicated.

So, you have Briahna Joy Gray, Bernie's current press secretary, dismissing 2016 reports of Russian interference and supporting Trump's attacks on Hillary:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/03/briahna-joy-gray-bernie-sanders-press-secretary/

Briahna Joy Gray is Bernie Sanders’ national press secretary for his 2020 campaign. She was one of 15 new hires announced in mid-March that included 10 women joining Sanders’ presidential campaign team. Sanders’ press secretary in 2016 was Symone Sanders (no relation to Bernie Sanders.) Gray is known for being outspoken about her beliefs, including her decision to vote for Jill Stein in 2016 after Sanders didn’t get the Democratic nomination.

Here she agreeing with Donald Trump:

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E780590640438603777&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D386015

Likewise, you had Bernie's celebrity surrogate Cornell West, who Bernie asked to help write the DNC platform, campaigning for Jill Stein and supporting the Green Party.

The problem with the AAT view is that it ignores their own role in undermining efforts to beat Trump. For example, do you think that Tulsi Gabbard seriously considers that she is being boosted by Republicans and Russians in order to give progressive credibility to attacks against Democrats? Instead, because she has bought into this idea that Trump won because it is the Democrats' fault, she feels justified to attack Democrats, and is grateful for the support.

In short, while many Bernie supporters talk about building a movement, the language they use is AAT in that much of their talk is about blaming and bringing down the Democratic "establishment," thus undermining the movement they propose to lead. Instead of seeing Republicans as the adversaries, Bernie pushes the idea that the primary adversaries are Bernie's would be Democratic allies.

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-abortion-defeat-donald-trump-climate-change-democratic-1429833

BERNIE SANDERS BLASTS DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT, TOUTS 'MORAL RESPONSIBILITY' TO PROTECT HEALTH CARE, FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE

Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders went on the offensive against the Democratic Party "establishment" Sunday, claiming that only his 2020 presidential campaign understands it has to do more than just defeat President Donald Trump.

Speaking with NBC News' Chuck Todd on Meet the Press Sunday, Sanders said he and the other Democratic candidates for president have a "moral responsibility" to fight for Americans' health care and preserve the Earth from the negative effects of climate change.

The senator pushed back against Todd's suggestion Sanders was merely offering the same platform that got him defeated in the 2016 primaries by Hillary Clinton. Among many topics touched on during the interview, Sanders said he does not support any restrictions on abortion, and views the subject as medical, rather than political.

"There are millions of people who are sick and tired of that Democratic establishment," Sanders said, noting several recent polls which showed him ahead of Trump in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I don't expect them to help.

[Blue_true]

35. Neither do I. That is why it is imperative to not screw around with them.

Don't let them sabotage our platform them show up to disrupt our convention. I would rather deal with pictures of security leading them out than to tolerate their arrogance.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Some folks have said this for a few years now...

[aikoaiko]

3. I would hope not, but its none of my concern.

No one gets all the votes.

[Hortensis]

4. He's always claimed the Repub-Dems corruptly serve the same

big-donor interests and betray the people, and he's once again hired radical campaign staffers inimical to the Democratic Party. I've read that back in 2016 he told CNN he and his followers "may not" support the Democratic nominee but haven't tracked that down.

As we know, he reluctantly and tepidly, and very belatedly, endorsed Hillary, some of his top people openly sneered that they did not, his wife stated on election day that it didn't matter WHO we vote for just that we vote, and a lot of those followers who believed what he told them proudly and noisily refused to vote Democrat.

Given how terrible those last believed the Democratic Party was (take a little jaunt over to where they hang to see what they still passionately believe), if their voting for Trump or third-party wasn't based on determined ignorance and profound dishonesty, it could almost have been a principled stand. After all, I know I wouldn't vote for Republicans these days, and "Anyway, the Democrats do it too" as Sanders always says in various ways.

So everyone take your best guess. Maybe they've ALL had personality transplants and are only pretending to be what they were last time.

[Dream Girl]

8. Cult like thinking

[Hortensis]

13. Too often. Some also always oppose the greater, majority, power.

Whoever that is. But there always is a greater majority because oppositional nature is mercifully relatively rare and what they must oppose always, of course, turns out to be the majority. First comes hostility, then come reasons and justifications.

Lol, that's not exactly intellectually based thinking either, though some become famous for their sanctifications of hard-wired reactions via dense, lengthy text.

[Me.]

28. My Guess Is

The past is prologue

[abqtommy]

5. 2020 looks a lot like 2016 REDUX. While I remain Undecided I have done some winnowing of the

candidates here in the comfort of my own mind. I'll let you know when I do decide but it helps me to
remember that in 2016 I supported and voted for Hillary.

[Gothmog]

34. sanders supporters elected trump

Link to tweet

[BlueMTexpat]

6. What I think is

unprintable. Sorry about that.

[MrsCoffee]

7. Again?

Probably.

[comradebillyboy]

9. I'd bet on it...

[boomer_wv]

10. Of course they will.

I've seen plenty of Sanders supporters in Twitter who make it clear they aren't going to be supporting the democrat is Bernie loses.

Their thoughts in 2016 were that if they helped get Trump elected it would lead to Bernie in 2020. So, they were ok putting us through the past 4 years because it gave them an outside chance of getting their guy next year. So, keep in mind that over the next generation as Trump court picks keep wrecking things that this was their endgame.

If he loses the nomination this time I'm sure they will decide that there's no way they could lose again in 2024 with an 81 year old candidate and will try to torpedo things again.

[vsrazdem]

11. If Bernie didn't care about the Democrats winning he would have run as an independent

and Trump would be reelected.

[Thekaspervote]

12. That's not what he has said publicly

Sanders will not commit to supporting the winner

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. Wrong. Your source makes no such claim. Your edit leaves a false impression

This thread is all about what will happen in the General Election. It is not about the timing of when Sanders would endorse a candidate other than him for the Democratic nomination prior to a Democratic convention.

Sanders committed to supporting the winner of the Democratic nomination in 2016, which he did, and he already made that same commitment this year. There is no official Democratic nominee until the Democratic Convention

So you were incredibly misleading when you summarized the message of that press piece to "Sanders will not commit to supporting the winner" when what the source wrote was

"NBC’s Kasie Hunt asked Bernie Sanders if he would commit to supporting the Democratic nominee before the convention if it’s clear it won’t be him. Sanders would not make any such commitment."

Even the original misleading headline from that source made clear that the reference was to a winner of primaries, not the winner of the Democratic nomination as determined by the convention..

[Me.]

29. He Also Would've Run As An Indie

in the Vermont primary instead of rigging the election.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

63. I've tried makin this point to no avail...some here have even actively ADVOCATED for Bernie to run

as an Independent, rather than in the Democrat primary, KNOWING that would guarantee the pee-Resident 4 more years!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ahoysrcsm]

111. Bernie 2020!!!

We WILL DO IT 2020!!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

120. YES WE WILL!!!!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ahoysrcsm]

130. BERNIE NUMBER ONE!!! BERNIE NUMBER ONE!!!

BERNIE NUMBER ONE!!!

[Skidmore]

114. Sanders only cares about Democrats winning

as long as he can use the party's infrastructure and if he's the winner. Frankly, it's a very Trumpian move. We see what he's doing. We won't have another version of the Tea Party. His miscalculation has always been that the core of the Democratic party isn't as easily fooled as Republicans were. I will vote for a Democrat.

[Gothmog]

14. Bernie Supporters did more to get Trump elected in 2016 than people realize

Link to tweet

[vsrazdem]

15. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

[Gothmog]

21. From Norm Ornstein

Link to tweet

[vsrazdem]

22. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016

About 12 percent of Bernie Sanders supporters from democractic primary crossed party lines and voted for Donald Trump in the general election, a new analysis says.

Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

[Gothmog]

25. You are wrong-84 % if Clinton voters voted for Obama vs. 74% of sanders voters

Link to tweet

[Cha]

31. HA! PROOF! Mahalo, Goth!!

[Gothmog]

32. One cannot just look at sanders voters who voted for trump

If one also looks at sanders voters who voted for Stein, Johnson, did not vote or who wrote in sanders name, then you have over 25% of sanders supporters who did NOT vote for Clinton which is why trump was elected.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

36. Exactly what I've been thinking the whole time..

they conveniently ignored those who voted for Stein's LIES in the Swing states.

Link to tweet

Thank YOU! Bookmarking!

[vsrazdem]

39. Then you should tell them their research study is wrong,

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

[Gothmog]

64. The study itself never supported your claim

I trust Norm Ornstein on this and Norm has been busy pointing out the facts

[Kurt V.]

68. ornstein is a conservative.

[mcar]

71. ...

[Kurt V.]

72. am i wrong on this?

[mcar]

75. I'd take a million conservatives like Ornstein over the extremes we see today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

https://www.amazon.com/Even-Worse-Than-Looks-Constitutional/dp/0465031331

[Kurt V.]

79. That's not actually a thing. crap :(

[Gothmog]

83. Who is a Never Trumper and is well respected in the real world

If it comes to numbers and polls, I trust Norm Ornstein

[Kurt V.]

84. i don't respect him. he refuses to acknowledge his own role (as a conservative) in this shitshow.

[Gothmog]

87. You are free to do so but I trust Ornstein on numbers

I trust Ornstein’s numbers

[Gothmog]

100. Ornstein is quoting a footnote from Cooperative Congressional Election Survey

[TexasTowelie]

50. So what if they did?

Deflections about defections in 2008 isn't relevant to what is occurring now with Trump as president. And while 12% of Bernie's supporters in 2016 voted for Trump, another 12% turned around and either didn't vote or went with a third choice. I certainly don't consider any of those to be loyal Democrats.

[Gothmog]

98. Survey Shows Fewer than 80% of Sanders Supporters Who Voted in General Election Voted for Clinton

This is taken from the Cooperative Congressional Election Survey https://ballot-access.org/2017/08/25/survey-shows-fewer-than-80-of-bernie-sanders-who-voted-in-general-election-voted-for-hillary-clinton/

On August 23, Cooperative Congressional Election Survey released a study of general election voters in 2016 who had supported Bernie Sanders during primary season. See this story. It shows that 12% of them voted for Donald Trump, and 8% voted for someone other than either major party presidential nominee.

When you add the sanders supporters who did not vote you get to only 74% of sanders supporters voting for Clinton.

Link to tweet

[vsrazdem]

126. Not sure I would take heart to information from a blogger member of the libertarian party.

[Gothmog]

127. The material posted is from Cooperative Congressional Election Survey

That is the most comprehensive survey of the data

[vsrazdem]

128. I don't see any actual survey. I did however see the link to "see the story" which included

"Interestingly, the data also shows that the majority of the "defectors" to Trump were not big fans of Obama at the time of the election, which Political Wire suggests means that the election was more about the "status quo" than anything else. Still, it's rather curious that a fifth of people who voted for the more lefty Democratic candidate in the primary were so ready to switch to Trump."

That should be telling us something.

[Gothmog]

129. LOL-did you read the fine print that states where the data came from CCES

The fine print states where the data came from. CCES is the Cooperative Congressional Election Study

The post from Norm Ornstein also cites the CCES as the source of the data

Link to tweet

The source of the data is described in the fine print. I admit that lawyers like fine print and so I was never confused by this

[Gothmog]

125. You do know that sanders has people who voted for Jill Stein on his staff

A vote for Jill Stein was a vote for trump

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

26. 84% is less than 74%???

Your own article is clear that sanders voters who voted for trump was the difference
https://twitter.com/gelliot

Link to tweet

[Blue_true]

45. The poster won't respond to actual numbers. He or she prefer pulling up skewed studies that no

other studies support.

[Gothmog]

91. It seems that you are correct

[Blue_true]

95. The person has had most of the night to respond to your post, crickets so far. nt

[vsrazdem]

97. Sorry I'm not responding. I happen to be working, which I do 13 hours a day 6 days a week.

[Gothmog]

101. The material posted is from Cooperative Congressional Election Survey

These numbers are the best numbers available on the 2016 election

[Blue_true]

37. You are dead wrong. Something like 8% of PUMAS voted for McCain,

12% of BernieBots voted for Trump and ~13% either voted third party or did not vote for Hillary (either by not voting or writing in bullshit). Those Bernie supporters HELPED ELECT TRUMP, and are responsible for every monstrous thing that he has done.

[vsrazdem]

38. Not according to this study. Do you have other facts to back up your clami.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

[Blue_true]

44. Other studies dispute your claim. It is up to you to prove, I have no dog

in that fight. I was a near PUMA in 2008, but as soon as it was clear that then Senator Obama was going to be the nominee, I maxed out a contribution to him before the primary was declared over, this allowed me to max out again once the General started. I supported then Senator Obama 100% with family and debating coworkers, even after I was upset that he didn't pick Hillary as VP. McCain was not remotely as bad as Trump, but he was bad enough and there was no way that I was going to risk seeing him elected President. Most other PUMAS took my path, they realized what was at stake and behaved like they understood.

[Gothmog]

65. That is consisted with what I have read

[lapucelle]

61. Context is everything.

Link to tweet

[Hav]

16. Bernie and his campaign in general, no, they won't work to defeat the Dem nominee

Bernie is smart enough to know which side can deliver more of his goals. If there is one topic he truly cared about for decades it is healthcare and either one of our candidates has better solutions than just letting Obamacare and poor people die.

Whether this time Bernie will do more than in 2016 to not hurt the Dems or whether he will be in that position is another question.
But what some of his staff will do will be interesting. Will they fuel the flames again to make enough Bernie supporters who are butthurt about the primaries vote Green again? Will they boo civil rights leaders and true icons of our party again? Will Jane Sanders tweet again that it won't matter who you vote for?
Even on such a Dem forum like ours, you can see the resentment of the supporters of certain candidates towards the Democratic party and its leaders.

[dansolo]

122. Bernie is not interested in delivering his goals

If he was, he wouldn't be continually attacking the same people that he needs to pass any legislation. Let's say that Bernie were somehow elected. How will he get enough support to pass anything?

[vsrazdem]

17. No, but right wing talking points don't help.

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/did-bernie-sanders-cost-hillary-clinton-the-presidency/

Sanders effect on all voters
Of course, there’s also the argument that Sanders undermined Clinton among all voters, not just her own. The argument has numerous prongs:

Sanders’ prolonging of the primary campaign past the point he was eliminated diverted resources from Clinton and fueled distrust of her.
Sanders did not work hard enough to get Clinton elected.
Sanders’ focus on the Democratic National Committee’s alleged rigging of the nomination fueled distrust of Clinton.
The first allegation is easy to disprove because it assumes, as do other arguments, that the non-Sanders universe did not have a vigorous primary challenge of Clinton. Sanders admitted that after the April 26 primaries that he was mathematically eliminated (the Democratic Party practice of allowing formally unpledged superdelegates to vote for a nominee makes such determinations inexact) and was only staying in the race to influence the party platform, eventually dropping out and endorsing Clinton two months later, a couple of weeks after she clinched a majority of delegates. This is typical behavior for eliminated candidates:

In the 2016 Republican primary John Kasich was eliminated in March and Ted Cruz was eliminated on April 19, but both stayed in the race in the hopes of making it to a brokered convention until after Trump clinched the nomination on May 3. In both cases they stayed in the race to deny Trump the nomination rather than affect the platform.
In the 2012 Republican primary both Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich stayed in the race well after they were mathematically eliminated. Paul was more like Sanders in that the impetus for staying in was to affect the platform, but Gingrich was merely attempting to deny Romney the nomination.
In the 2008 Democratic primary, Clinton herself was eliminated from winning a majority of pledged delegates sometime in April. However, she stayed in the race through June, endorsing Obama after he clinched the nomination on the last day of the primary season.
So, Sanders behaved exactly as many other eliminated primary challengers, including Clinton herself. Blaming a loss on normal behavior is disingenuous and, in this case, hypocritical.

The second allegation is also easy to disprove. Sanders fully endorsed Clinton at the convention. He campaigned for her regularly and told his supporters not to support third parties. Contrast this behavior to Cruz, who in a primetime convention speech told his supporters to vote their conscience (a rebuke of Trump that led to boos in the convention hall) while Kasich didn’t attend the convention, never endorsed Trump, and wrote in John McCain for his vote. Trump has a far better case that Kasich and Cruz let Clinton get too close than Clinton has a case that Sanders cost her the presidency.

The third allegation is more serious than the other two, so it requires a bit of unpacking. In July 2016, WikiLeaks published internal DNC emails disparaging Bernie Sanders and his supporters, asking if there was a way to thwart him in the Kentucky and West Virginia primaries, calling him a liar, and generally being dismissive of his campaign. However, Sanders never walked back his support of Clinton. The blame here really belongs on a) the parties behind the disclosure and b) the inept leadership of the DNC, led by Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Moreover, Sanders was never going to be the reason people attacked Clinton as crooked. She has been a national figure since the early ‘90s, and her husband’s administration was constantly hounded by investigations and people in and adjacent to it going to jail. Republicans had known for decades that the best way to go after Clinton was by attacking her ethics. And Clinton indulged these critics by engaging in dubious if not illegal behavior like using a private email server and soliciting donations from foreign governments for the Clinton Foundation. Ultimately these decisions were her own, knowing that if she did run for president again she’d be attacked like her husband was, and had nothing to do with Sanders.

So I don’t see any compelling reason to think that Sanders somehow cost Clinton the election among people who didn’t vote for him. He behaved no different than past defeated candidates for nomination (and was certainly more supportive than the candidates that Trump beat) and refused to turn himself into a victim after the DNC hack.

[OldRed2450]

18. How does it help when his campaign is retweeting this?

Link to tweet

[vsrazdem]

19. I don't know, do you think its true? I saw someone on THIS board, say they would not vote

Bernie if he was the nominee. Seriously!?

[OldRed2450]

20. I'm voting for Bernie if he is the nominee

But Bernie's campaign retweeting someone who says "blue no matter who" is a farce is just preparing to anger their support enough so they don't.

[Blue_true]

40. Absolutely NO ONE has said or even remotely implied that they won't support Bernie as our nominee.

I prefer anyone else but Gabbard over Bernie as our nominee, but if he wins it, I plan to support him 100% and would be over the moon when he beat Trump. I think all loyal democrats are about where I am on Bernie.

[vsrazdem]

42. ABSOLUTELY FALSE!!! Someone on this board just this week stated they would not vote for Bernie

if he was the nominee. I was shocked to see a Democrat on this board say that, but there is was.

[Blue_true]

46. I hope that you called that person's ass out, because if I had seen it, that is what

I would have done within site rules. It is totally unacceptable for ANYONE to indicate that they will do anything but support our nominee 100%. Hell, if Gabbard somehow became the clear nominee, I would projectile puke for an hour once I realized that, but once that was done, I would be 100% behind her to win the General, even she is far superior to Trump.

[vsrazdem]

48. I would be right there with you. I was quite shocked at that comment as it is the first time I have

seen someone say that.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. I saw that too!! Sad.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ahoysrcsm]

109. Bernie 2020!!!!

We WILL DO IT!!!!

[betsuni]

115. Link.

[vsrazdem]

118. Sorry, can't give you the link because it was deleted by poster Gothmog.

It was the post of a retweet by Biden Batallion of a poll with name calling of all the other candidates. and it looks like the person who said they would not vote for Bernie if he was the nominee got their post removed by the administrators, Good.

[betsuni]

121. "Voting my conscience." I thought that was good.

Jane Sanders, November 8, 2016: "How we voted not as important as that we voted. Head & heart at odds for many."

Calling a Democrat evil in "lesser of two evils" perfectly okay.

[mcar]

73. I regularly see Sanders supporters saying this

but I rarely see them affirming that they will VBNMW.

[TomCADem]

23. Then Bernie's Campaign Needs To Stop Pushing Russian/Ring Wing Talking Points

Here is Bernie's Former and Current Press Secretary:

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E780590640438603777&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D386015

Of course, the fact that you are relying on hacked emails in wikileaks highlights another big problem with Bernie: His coordination with Russia.

Bernie should have strongly condemned any reliance on the hacked emails. Instead, Bernie's campaign repeatedly cites to them while his campaign has attacked the idea that Russia was behind the hacks. Your post and it's reliance on material stolen by Russia underscores this.

[redstatebluegirl]

24. I hope not, but the minute he isn't the nominee he leaves the party.

I would not put anything past him or some of his supporters. Not all of them, but some of them are a little wacko.

[Autumn]

27. He campaigned for the last one. I suppose he will do it for whoever the nominee is this time.

[Blue_true]

43. He really didn't campaign for Hillary. He took

August, September and the first week of October off. When he returned, he did FOUR events for Hillary, Warren did a lot more. After the primary, it would have been enormously powerful had Bernie immediately embraced Hillary as our nominee and went on the trail fullbore on her behalf, but he didn't do ANY!!!! of that. There are some really hard feelings toward him now for how he acted, but if he is our nominee this time around, people will swallow hard and get fully behind him as soon as it is clear that he will be the nominee, the alternative is totally unacceptable.

[Autumn]

52. He campaigned for Hillary. 52 events in 14 states, more than any other surrogate.

You can't change that.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton

The truth is that Bernie Sanders is very, very angry—at Donald Trump. He is angry enough to have spent weeks travelling on behalf of Hillary Clinton, speaking for her in union halls and arenas, to students and activists. When he talks, he is entirely Bernie—“We are going to fight for that democracy; we are not going to become an oligarchy”—and he hints strongly that he has done some negotiating with her before getting on the stage, and will continue to do so after, as he hopes, she is elected. When praising her positions, he often says “Secretary Clinton has told me” or “Secretary Clinton has promised,” as though he knows that it might not work, with the sort of swing audiences he is dispatched to persuade (students, working-class voters), simply to declare that taking these stands is in her nature. But he knows what he wants: for her to win. “This campaign is not a personality contest,” Sanders said near the beginning of a speech in Raleigh, North Carolina, on Thursday night. “We’re not voting for high-school president. We’re voting for the most powerful leader in the entire world.” He had been introduced by Pharrell Williams, the musician, who was now sitting on the stage with Clinton herself, as if it were an actual high-school election. Statements like that serve to remind Sanders’s supporters that they don’t need to be charmed by Hillary Clinton—he is over it, and they ought to be, too. But, if personality doesn’t matter, the person does.

“There are many, many differences between Secretary Clinton and Mr. Trump,” Sanders told the crowd. "But there is one that is very, very profound. Are you ready for a very radical thought right now? I don’t want anyone to faint! I think we have some paramedics here”—“paramedics here” is, it turns out, an excellent phrase for demonstrating a Brooklyn accent—“but I do want to make this announcement. Are you ready for it?” The crowd indicated that it was. "All right. Madam Secretary, you correct me if I’m wrong here; I don’t want to misspeak for you—Secretary Clinton believes in science!”

Since conceding defeat in the primaries, Sanders has been one of the real champions of this campaign. He let his supporters yell at him and deride him as a sellout in bleak delegate breakfasts at the Democratic National Convention, in Philadelphia, as he endorsed Clinton and explained why they needed to do the same. He made getting support for her his priority, putting aside any subtle, undermining gestures that might have better preserved his rebel-rock-star status. He has kept doing so despite other revelations in the Podesta e-mails, ones that are not about him personally but about issues that he believes in—for example, about money in politics, as exemplified by the Clinton team’s nurturing of donors. And he has earned the right to negotiate hard on such issues in the future.

As Sanders finished his speech in Raleigh—“We have to do everything that we can to elect Secretary Clinton!”—Clinton and Pharrell were on their feet, cheering. “Wow!” Clinton said, when she took to the rostrum. “Whew! I gotta say, after hearing from these two extraordinary men, I feel all fired up and ready to go for the next five days!” She knew what it was like to run against Sanders. Having him on her side was “a lot more fun.” A few hours later, Sanders was off on his own to Iowa. Trump is ahead in that state, in the latest average of polls, by about two and a half points. Sanders had three events scheduled for Friday—Cedar Falls, Iowa City, Davenport. On Saturday, there would be more.

Sanders will campaign today for her in Iowa, the state that in many ways put him on the map during the primary race, where he came within a fraction of a point of beating her in their first-in-the-nation caucuses.

The stop is one of more than a dozen he has scheduled across the country this final week before the general election, from New Hampshire to Arizona, as he continues to rally support behind his former rival.

“No one can say he didn’t go all in, and if they do they are lying,” Pete D’Alessandro, Sanders former Iowa caucus director who is now working in behalf of the Democratic Party in the state, told ABC News. “It’s amazing what he’s doing.”

[Blue_true]

58. He vanished after the convention and didn't come back until October.

I only counted 4 events by him on Hillary's behalf. Sorry, I don't remotely see things as you do, I was paying close attention because I wanted him so badly to come out fullsquare behind Hillary because I realized how powerful that would have been, he didn't help her (as Hillary herself recently confirmed in an interview).

[Joe941]

33. Why bring this up. Just another hit piece on bernie.

[TexasTowelie]

53. Seems like a legitimate topic for discussion.

We are discussing whether history will repeat itself. It also wouldn't even be discussed if Bernie hadn't decided to hire people for his campaign that defected from the Democratic Primary in the last general election.

[Joe941]

56. It also wouldnt be discussed if Bernie wasnt doing extremely well...

with his campaign. Let's not forget that.

[TexasTowelie]

77. Yet, he is rarely at the top of any of the polls.

His entire strategy relies upon having a brokered convention and hoping that all of Warren's delegates will choose him as the alternative choice on a second ballot. He may get some of her delegates, but there will also be plenty going to Biden too. The superdelegates are also far more likely to vote for Biden over Bernie if it gets to a second ballot. Even if Warren were to release her delegates in the first round of balloting, there isn't any guarantee that all of them will vote for Bernie and I suspect that Biden will get some of them.

This race will be over for all practical purposes in March. 38% of the delegates will be selected by Super Tuesday, while 65% will be selected by the end of March. I suspect that Biden will have a large enough lead that it will be impossible for any of the other candidates to catch up with him.

Winning the states that don't have many delegates won't help Bernie much if Warren or Buttigieg also picks up their share (like it appears in Iowa and New Hampshire) and Biden also receives more than 15% of the votes so he receives his proportional allocation. Meanwhile, the polls in southern states show Biden with large leads and possibly closing out so that the other candidates are below 15% and don't receive any delegates. For example, the latest CNN poll for Texas showed Biden at 35%, Bernie at 15%, and all other candidates under 15%. That means that Biden gets 160 delegates while Bernie gets 68 delegates. However, if Bernie falls below 15%, then Biden will get all 228 delegates. A 92 delegate margin will be difficult enough for Bernie to offset, but if Biden piles up a 228 delegate margin (just in Texas) then that will be game over for ALL of the candidates and it won't matter how much money they have in their campaign funds or how much howling their supporters do about the contest being rigged.

[vsrazdem]

41. They can't help themselves. Every post about Bernies causes severe anxiety and people just have

to put in their 2 cents to start criticizing everything about him. Its pretty pathetic.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. Not only that, but some can't even find a SINGLE positive thing to say about Bernie

and his progressive campaign. While Biden is my least favorite of the top-tier Democratic candidates, and I think he would lose to Dolt45 in 40+ states if nominated, I've still found positive things to say about Joe when he is right.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[The Valley Below]

105. That's the spirit!

[ahoysrcsm]

110. BERNIE!!! BERNIE!!! BERNIE!!!

WOOT!!! WOOT!!! WOOT!!!

[BootinUp]

47. du rec. nt

[egduj]

49. No.

[Kurt V.]

51. they live here , work here, and feel the traumas of the trump admin. not a chance.

[Tiggeroshii]

54. No reason to think he wouldnt. His track record says as much.

[chillfactor]

55. They are radical enough to do that.....

I can listen to other candidates points of view even though I favor Biden. And perhaps that may change…...but I would never vote for Sanders...this next election may be the first time in my78 years I do not vote if Sanders gets the nomination.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

66. And there you have it, in case anyone doubted...at least your honest Chillactor in saying:

"I can listen to other candidates points of view even though I favor Biden. And perhaps that may change…...but I would never vote for Sanders...this next election may be the first time in my78 years I do not vote if Sanders gets the nomination."

I can't believe you're saying that Chillfactor and will never understand that attitude regardless of your reasoning.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ahoysrcsm]

112. BERNIE NUMBER ONE!!!!!

[DanieRains]

57. I Supported Bernie Then Donated To And Phone Called For Hillary

I'm not an idiot or a sore loser.

Hillary had a lot of friends. I have a lot of friends in politics and sometimes they lose to others that are not my friends. We still fight together. The menace the GOP represents need all of us working for the future of MANKIND.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

67. THIS!!! Hat's off to you...

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ahoysrcsm]

113. BERNIE!!! BERNIE!!! BERNIE!!!

[NYMinute]

62. Yes n/t

[floppyboo]

69. This is hillarious! If Bernie wins will Bloomberg work to take Bernie down? That is the question

Actually, no! None of this should be the question. Talking about divisiveness just makes people defensive. It is a great tactic of people who would like to see the chaos of 45 continue.

Sure wish this kind of speculation would stop. Unless, of course, you want to speculate about Romney and the evangelical right splitting off from the Trumpians. Ya, ya, I know. Hypocrite. LOL

[KPN]

103. Hard to disagree. The facts are many people think Bernie is right and many Dems think he's not.

Alienating those who think he's right isn't very smart really.

[mcar]

70. 25% of Sanders supporters did not vote for the Dem nominee in 2016

Link to tweet

?s=19


Tom Watson
✔
@tomwatson
Only 74.3% of Sanders primary voters supported the Democratic nominee in 2016.

In 2008, 84% of Clinton voters supported the Democratic nominee.

Pass this on. (You may have heard an alternative narrative).

[Cha]

74. That's a whole hellava lot of BS supporters.. and

not one bit surprising.

Thank you, mcar.

[mcar]

76. People keep saying Sanders endorsed and supported HRC

He did, eventually. His supporters, not so much. Sad that some of those are in high places in his campaign.

Cha. Happy holidays!

[Cha]

78. Not very well he didn't.

Happy Holidays to you, mcar!

[Gothmog]

82. I was at the National Convention

sanders was not really interested in helping Clinton win. There was some truly horrible conduct by sanders supporters that truly hurt Clinton

[Lexee]

90. He mostly talked about himself and oh, HRC was lesser of the two evils.

[Kurt V.]

80. this is not true. good grief.

[Cha]

86. So prove your statement.

[Gothmog]

88. Why?

Do you have facts to back up your claims? Why is Ornstein’s numbers wrong?

[George II]

89. Facts are facts.

[Gothmog]

92. For this thread

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

99. Survey Shows Fewer than 80% of Sanders Supporters Who Voted in General Election Voted for Clinton

This is taken from the Cooperative Congressional Election Survey https://ballot-access.org/2017/08/25/survey-shows-fewer-than-80-of-bernie-sanders-who-voted-in-general-election-voted-for-hillary-clinton/

On August 23, Cooperative Congressional Election Survey released a study of general election voters in 2016 who had supported Bernie Sanders during primary season. See this story. It shows that 12% of them voted for Donald Trump, and 8% voted for someone other than either major party presidential nominee.

When you add the sanders supporters who did not vote you get to only 74% of sanders supporters voting for Clinton.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

108. Thank you for this, Goth!

[George II]

81. I guess it's no surprise that three of his top staffers (Turner, Gray, and Sirota) voted for Stein.

[Cha]

85. Not even a little bit.

[Gothmog]

93. This is very telling

[Gothmog]

124. You are correct

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

94. Kick

[lees1975]

96. Bernie's Platform is already part of the Democratic Establishment

Bernie's issues aren't going to go away if he's not nominated. But here's the bottom line. If the Democrats don't unite, the country is gone. It won't survive four more years of Donald Trump. The Republicans need a historic beating to put a stop to their crap of just ignoring things they do wrong. You won't be able to afford living here if they win. So you better decide that whomever the Democrats nominate will get your vote. No "stein voters" no "gabbard voters." Come on, people, get this in your head.

[KPN]

102. Seems like a lot of circular reasoning. They aren't undermining the movement, they are the movement

Really, it sounds like you are blaming the people that you say are the blamers. Kind of crazy.

[radical noodle]

104. There are millions of Democrats who are

sick and tired of people who pretend to be Democrats.

[liberalmediaaddict]

106. We're basically reliving the 2016 election

In some ways it feels like it never ended. Bernie's really never stopped campaigning for President since 2015. In an ideal world Hillary would be running for re-election right now, unopposed and Individual-1 Trump would be in jail with Michael Cohen.

Instead we're trapped in another "Bernie or Bust" election cycle. With his supporters ready to blame the DNC, mainstream media and the Democratic "establishment" if Bernie doesn't win the nomination. Hopefully Bernie leads by example and helps us unite the Democratic Party so we can defeat Trump and take back the Senate in 2020.

[helpisontheway]

107. Yes..He loves to attack Democrats..Bernie and his Bernie or Bust supporters

will do everything to make sure Trump is re-elected so they can say that they were right. 🙄

[betsuni]

116. Of course.

[katmondoo]

117. Are the Russians backing Bernie?

[R B Garr]

119. Thanks for this. A good reminder of why Putin took notice

of Bernie’s sabotage.

[BannonsLiver]

123. "Like the last time."