Joe Biden undermining Democratic efforts for fair Senate impeachment trial

[progressoid]

U.S. Senate Democrats are fighting to allow witnesses to be called in the coming impeachment trial of President Donald Trump. Speaker Nancy Pelosi is holding back the articles of impeachment approved by the House, pending agreement on the rules for conducting a Senate trial.

But the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination has blown up any leverage they had.

Former Vice President Joe Biden told National Public Radio earlier this month that he wouldn’t testify in a Senate impeachment trial, because “Everybody knows the issue here is not what I did,” and he won’t help Republicans “take the eye off the ball.”

He had a chance to correct the misstep during an interview with the Des Moines Register’s editorial board on December 27. Unfortunately, he dug in.

Register executive editor Carol Hunter: Do you stand by your earlier statements that you wouldn’t comply if you were subpoenaed to testify in an impeachment trial before the Senate?

Biden: Correct. And the reason I wouldn’t is because it’s all designed to deal with Trump doing what he’s done his whole life: trying to take the focus off him.

The issue is not what I did–not a single person, not one single person, even that thug [Rudy] Giuliani and his compatriots, have said I did anything other than my job. Every one of the people whose sworn testimony [who] worked for him said Biden did his job and he did it well. This is all about a diversion. And we play his game all the time. He’s done it his whole career. He’s done it his whole career.

And I’m very proud of the job I did. I never, never, never moved off of dealing with corruption there [in Ukraine]. Every single person thought that prosecutor-general should be fired, from the IMF [International Monetary Fund] to all our European partners, and the people in the administration. But this is a technique he uses all the time. He’s a chronic liar.

Hunter: Doesn’t that position you as if you’re defying a subpoena, putting yourself above the law?

Biden: Well, look. The grounds for them to call me would be overwhelmingly specious. So I don’t anticipate that happening anyway.

But what it would do if I went–let’s say I voluntarily just said, let me go make my case. What are you [the media] going to cover?

You guys, instead of focusing–you’re going to cover for three weeks anything that I said. And he’s going to get away. You guys buy into it all the time. Not a joke. Think about it. As we say in my church, examine your conscience.

Doesn’t mean I shouldn’t testify if you thought I should, but think what it’s about. It’s all about what he does all the time, his entire career. Take the focus off [himself]. This guy violated the Constitution. He said it in the driveway of the White House. He acknowledged he asked for help [from the Ukrainian president].

...https://www.bleedingheartland.com/2019/12/27/joe-biden-undermining-democratic-efforts-for-fair-senate-impeachment-trial/?fbclid=IwAR2S-N--VhjlIJHtiIpoXXpcoFNFbLRM81BokAj00K9rJh_udPW_7IrMOOI

Via Facebook - Laura Belin-BleedingHeartland:

"When Democrats are fighting to hold Trump accountable for (among other things) obstructing justice, the last thing we need is for Joe Biden to suggest Congressional subpoenas are optional.

He needs to be smarter than this."

[Gothmog]

1. Joyce Vance-Joe Biden is not a proper witness

Link to tweet

[elleng]

2. She's right;

Last edited Sat Dec 28, 2019, 01:27 AM - Edit history (1)

VP Biden in no way undermined efforts for witnesses.

VP Biden stated as much, in interview with ?Des Moines paper: It's all about trump's statements, NOTHING about Bidens'.

Said Biden: “The reason I wouldn’t is because it’s all designed to deal with Trump doing what he’s done his whole life: trying to take the focus off him. The issue is not what I did.”

He added: “This is all about a diversion. And we play his game all the time. He’s done it his whole career.”

[progressoid]

5. The way Biden said it gives political cover to Trump and the GOP.

Expect Fox news to use this over and over.

[fleabiscuit]

14. Trying to get in the head of the orange menace is a waste of time and energy. nt

[Gothmog]

17. I am a lawyer

There is no legal justification for Joe Biden to testify in the real world. Who cares what Fox lies about.

[progressoid]

21. Clearly there is no legal justification for subpoening Biden to testify.

But the issue here is the idea of not responding to a subpoena (regardless of it's motivation). Biden did us no favors by implying that he could just ignore it.

Like many of his gaffes, his in-artful response, did more harm than good.

[Peacetrain]

27. Pulling on the hip waders... seriously.. are you kidding me.. do you have any idea how angry DU

or anyone would be if Joe Biden let himself get dragged into court.. This is a upcoming trial about Trumps' illegality not Bidens. Trump has ordered his people not to testify. So you are okay with the right pulling in Biden and making it all about Biden and giving Trump a pass.. Really????

[StarfishSaver]

29. There's a wide gap between being "dragged into court" and saying before the trial that you

plan to ignore a Congressional subpoena. It would have been better if he hadn't said that - and, as evidenced by his subsequent clarifications and corrections, he realizes that himself.

[progressoid]

33. I'm not OK with it. But he's already being dragged into this them.

It's all they have to deflect from Trump. And they aren't going to let up on it.

If he is going to be the nominee, he needs to get in front of this and stop their bullshit attacks.

Botching a question about subpoenas isn't a good start.

[LakeArenal]

31. So you say.

I say. Nice try.

Joe remains as solid as ever.

[Fiendish Thingy]

45. +1000

Joe is not helping our cause or his.

[TexasTowelie]

32. Since when are we supposed to care what Fox News uses?

They've been critical of every Democrat since they first signed onto the air.

[progressoid]

36. Since always... "Fox News Ends 2019 With Biggest Prime Time Ratings Ever"

They wield huge influence.

Fox News had its highest-rated year in prime time in the network’s 23-year history, with a total average audience of 2.5 million viewers, according to ratings data compiled by Nielsen.

...

Overall, Fox was up compared to 2018, with prime time ratings rising 2%, while both CNN and MSNBC saw declines—CNN, which finished third overall with 972,000 viewers was down 2%, while MSNBC, which finished second, was down 3% with a total prime time audience of 1.753 million viewers.

...

The network’s prime time host Sean Hannity finished 2019 as the most-watched host in cable news for the third straight year, with an average audience of 3.3 million viewers. Hannity also led among viewers 25-54, with an average audience of 528,000. Fox News’ Tucker Carlson finished second overall with a total audience of 3.032 million viewers and 509,000 viewers 25-54.

MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow took third place on the year with a total audience of 2.797 million viewers and 465,000 viewers in the key demo, followed by FNC’s Laura Ingraham (2.567 million total viewers and 420,000 viewers 25-54) and Fox’s The Five (2.549 million total viewers and 392,000 viewers in the key demo).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2019/12/11/fox-news-ends-2019-with-highest-rated-prime-time-ratings-ever/#606491983347

[TexasTowelie]

38. Nope.

Wrong answer.

[msongs]

3. boy that's a huge stretch. well when ya cant get a job at politico do the best u can nt

[ChubbyStar]

9. You can add that to your new article, along with Colin's tennis shoes.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

4. It's unfortunate Joe did this...he should recant, go in there, testify & kick tRump's fuckin' ass.

Joe could be the hero in all this, by taking Dolt45 down at the impeachment trial, while cementing his good name at the same time.Talk about killing two birds with one stone!!!

It might even be the one thing Joe could do that wins him the nomination, though Bernie's momentum may be too much to overcome at this point.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[33taw]

6. Do you believe Bernie would take a couple slot?

[sheshe2]

10. Exactly what did Joe do?

Care to explain?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. That's the whole point... NOTHING!! That's why I said what I said.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Peacetrain]

28. See post 27... what can he testify to? he is not a first hand witness to anything.

[TexasTowelie]

34. .

[sheshe2]

7. First.

Who/What is Bleeding Heartland?

Second.

Biden has nothing to do with the high crimes of DT. Biden did not collude. Nor did he bribe or demand quid pro quo from the Ukraine. Nor did he lie about a perfect phone call. He did not stand in front of the press and admit his crimes as DT did. This is bullshit.

[progressoid]

20. Bleeding Heartland is a leading liberal news/opinion blog in Iowa.

In fact, I think they used to be listed on blog roll in the old incarnation of Democratic Underground.

Bleeding Heartland is a community blog about Iowa politics, especially campaigns and elections, state government, social, and environmental issues. Bleeding Heartland also covers presidential policies and what the Iowans in Congress are up to.

Drew Miller and Chris Woods launched Bleeding Heartland in January 2007. Writing as “desmoinesdem,” Laura Belin joined the team of front-pagers in April of that year and has been the primary author and sole editor at Bleeding Heartland since early 2008. She continued to use the handle desmoinesdem through 2018 and now writes about Iowa politics under her own byline.

Belin found her love of politics growing up with parents and siblings who discussed current events at the dinner table. She has followed Iowa elections closely since the 1980 caucuses, when she took on the role of liberal Republican candidate John Anderson for a classroom debate. She first participated in an Iowa Democratic caucus as a Paul Simon supporter in 1988.

She found her love of writing about politics as an analyst for the Prague-based Open Media Research Institute and later for Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. She covered Russian campaigns and elections, parliamentary politics, and media issues full time from 1995 to 1998 and on a freelance basis for RFE/RL from 1999 to 2005, spanning most of Boris Yeltsin’s presidency and the early Vladimir Putin years.

Des Moines Cityview’s “Civic Skinny” called Belin “probably the hardest-working — and perhaps the best — political reporter in the state” and “one of the best investigative reporters in the state.” The Fix at the Washington Post has named Bleeding Heartland among the “best state-based political blogs” and called Belin one of the “top Iowa political tweeters.” Politico put desmoinesdem on its list of “early state must-follows.” Charles Pierce of Esquire has called Bleeding Heartland an “essential Iowa political blog.”

[lees1975]

8. Why?

The trial isn't about what Biden did that Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate. The trial is about what Trump did in attempting to bribe Ukraine into launching an investigation into Biden and announcing it. Biden couldn't answer any questions related to that because he wasn't involved in it. They'd never get the subpoena because it is immaterial to the case.

[EveHammond13]

12. trash hit piece. garbage.

[fleabiscuit]

15. +1

[California_Republic]

19. Jury review underway

[EveHammond13]

13. and you are going on full ignore. never want to see another post from you.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

16. +1. n/t

[Gothmog]

18. The author of this hit piece is clearly NOT a member of the Bar

[George II]

22. Yesterday's new. This has essentially been hashed, rehashed, and pretty much been put to bed.

Laura Belin should be ashamed of herself, saying "he needs to be smarter than this." What are her political, legal, and legislative creds?

[boomer_wv]

23. This is dumb

Trump is going to defy any subpoena he or his people are given regardless of anything Biden does and anyone who votes for him doesnt care about that anyway.

[wellst0nev0ter]

24. Wagon circlers for Biden suck at optics

Biden is right that there is no legal basis to call him up as a witness, but that's not what the trumpanzee echo chamber is going to focus on.

They'll say Biden doesn't want to testify, so why should Trump and his cronies.

Biden could have handled it much, much better, yet he blew it once again.

[progressoid]

25. +1

[StarfishSaver]

30. "They'll say Biden doesn't want to testify, so why should Trump and his cronies"

That's the point. The argument will be "If it's ok for Biden to ignore a Congressional subpoena, why is Trump being impeached for doing it?"

There are several reasons the two aren't the same, but that won't matter because if we're arguing about what the difference is, we've lost the argument.

Let's not hand them ammunition and talking points.

[Gothmog]

26. The impeachment trial is NOT about about Biden's behavior

Link to tweet

[progressoid]

39. See? It's already happening. "Biden's behavior"

The undecided and independent (whatever that means) voters will see "Biden's behavior" as an implication that he might have done something wrong.

Biden needs to start playing offense and stop this before it gets worse.

[TexasTowelie]

35. .

[totodeinhere]

37. Much ado about nothing IMO.

McConnell will do what he damn well pleases regardless of what Joe Biden says or does.

[floppyboo]

40. Question: IF Joe was to testify, does he get a lawyer?

I don't know much about the legal/court system. Would his lawyer be able to object on the grounds of immaterial at any question that is off topic?

[lapucelle]

41. Laura Belin updated her story.

UPDATE: Biden clarified his remarks on Twitter on December 28.

Link to tweet

That’s a much better answer. It’s unlikely Biden would be called as a witness because the impeachment is about Trump’s conduct.

https://www.bleedingheartland.com/2019/12/27/joe-biden-undermining-democratic-efforts-for-fair-senate-impeachment-trial/?fbclid=IwAR2S-N--VhjlIJHtiIpoXXpcoFNFbLRM81BokAj00K9rJh_udPW_7IrMOOI

Thank you for your update, Ms Belin!

[Cha]

42. Thank you for her update, lapucelle!

[lapucelle]

44. It's remarkable that this was included

He had a chance to correct the misstep during an interview with the Des Moines Register’s editorial board on December 27. Unfortunately, he dug in.

but this was not

UPDATE: Biden clarified his remarks on Twitter on December 28. That’s a much better answer. It’s unlikely Biden would be called as a witness because the impeachment is about Trump’s conduct.

Link to tweet

[George II]

46. This is much ado about nothing, people obsessing over a hypothetical that never will become real.

[Joe941]

43. This is a very good point.

[hughee99]

47. It's completely different when Biden does it.

Of course, now the republicans are going to be tempted to subpoena Biden, just to make him defy it.

[myohmy2]

48. if called upon...

Laura Belin,

" "When Democrats are fighting to hold Trump accountable for (among other things) obstructing justice, the last thing we need is for Joe Biden to suggest Congressional subpoenas are optional.

He needs to be smarter than this." "


...and it reflects on all Democrats...

...it makes us look we've something to hide...it makes us look like we're demanding a double-standard...it makes us look like we're playing by trump-rules...it makes us look like we're just out to punish trump...


Joe,

" This is all about a diversion. And we play his game all the time. He’s done it his whole career. "


...Joe's absolutely right...but the impeachment game is a political game and politics permeates everything in our country today...

...testifying may help Joe's primary bid and our chances in November or it may hurt and add to Joe's baggage...but it's a gamble we have to take if Joe's called upon to testify...

...Democrats have to come out of impeachment appearing genuine, fair and credible...

[NYMinute]

49. I need a lot of cheese with such whine. nt