Joe Biden Says He'd Defy Subpoena to Testify in Trump's Senate Trial

[bluewater]

Joe Biden Says He’d Defy Subpoena to Testify in Trump’s Senate Trial

Returning to the campaign trail after Christmas, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. on Friday stood by his comments that he would not comply with a subpoena to testify at President Trump’s impeachment trial in the Senate.

In a meeting with the editorial board of The Des Moines Register, whose endorsement in the Iowa caucuses is coveted by presidential hopefuls, Mr. Biden argued that complying with a subpoena and testifying would essentially allow Mr. Trump to succeed in shifting attention onto Mr. Biden and away from the president’s own actions.

“The reason I wouldn’t is because it’s all designed to deal with Trump doing what he’s done his whole life: trying to take the focus off him,” Mr. Biden told the newspaper. “The issue is not what I did.”
“This is all about a diversion,” Mr. Biden added. “And we play his game all the time. He’s done it his whole career.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/27/us/politics/joe-biden-trump-trial.html

Isn't Biden undercutting the 2nd Article of Impeachment against Trump, Obstruction of Congress for ignoring Congressional supoenas?

https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Articles%20of%20Impeachment.pdf

Just saw on CNN the hosts making this very point, why can Biden say he will ignore a supoena when Trump is being impeached in part for doing that himself?



This seems like an unforced error on Biden's part, handing the Republicans a gift of an excuse for not voting to remove Trump from office. Why did Joe even bring this up now?

[TwilightZone]

1. False equivalence.

Biden isn't on trial.

The subpoenas that Trump and his minions are ignoring are all directly related to impeachment. Biden's subpoena would be Trump targeting a potential political opponent, based on nothing but debunked conspiracy theories.

[bluewater]

4. You don't have to be on trial to be supeonaed.

Witnesses are often supeonaed.

Biden just muddied the waters immensely and gave the Republicans a gigantic excuse to let Trump off the hook.

Why did Joe even make this statement now when the news cycle would be sure to run with it?

[Skya Rhen]

6. Biden is not a witness to the charges brought against Trump, so your argument fails.

[wellst0nev0ter]

9. Then that's what he should say in the hearing

Its not that complicated, and he should not be giving cover to the pukes.

[bluewater]

14. exactly

[George II]

20. What hearing?

[still_one]

52. +++

[George II]

19. There has to be a valid reason articulated in the subpoena. There won't be one IF they try.

[Perseus]

25. It doesn't matter, the law demands your response to a subpoena, that republicans are not

being made accountable is another story, but just wait if Biden doesn't respond to one.

Anyway, that is not the issue, the real issue is that Joe should have not responded the way he did, he just justified the lack of respect from republicans who have been ignoring subpoenas, and that is a big mistake. So now he sends a tweet to explain what he said and what he has done regarding subpoenas.

Bad formula...put your foot in your mouth, next day clarify what you meant to say. People already know what you said when you put your foot in your mouth, there is no going back.

So easy to just say "No comment"...so easy

[bluewater]

46. What was Biden's clairification exactly?

Biden said he has always complied with legitimate Congressional inquiries...

So does that mean he WILL comply if supeonaed by the Republican Senate or not?

Some posters are saying it means he will challenge any such supeona in court as being illegitimate, but I don't see Joe actually saying that.

This seems like a second unforced error on Joe's part, issuing a clarification that isn't clear and can be used by Republicans to justify Trumps illegal actions obstructing Congress.

[Perseus]

49. You are correct, he didn't say that

I hate to say it but he has, once again, put his foot in his mouth. I wish he would stop to think before he opens his mouth, there is nothing wrong with taking a breather to make sure his answers will not get him in trouble.

I am very worried about some of Biden's supporters taking an attitude of not wanting to listen or being objective, it keeps bringing up in my memory what the con said about shooting someone and not loosing any votes.

[samnsara]

2. good for him

[janterry]

3. This is just the beginning

should he get the nod.


We can do so much better than this

[Demsrule86]

41. Not if we want to win...and can I just say echoing GOP talking points and giving Trump what he wants

is not the way to go.

[janterry]

50. I don't believe that Biden can win

That's not a talking point. It's what I believe -

[Perseus]

57. I'm with you, I also feel that Biden cannot win

I do believe very strongly he cannot win. I will support him if he gets the nomination.

[Demsrule86]

66. Wishful thinking and he will be the nominee despite Trump's best efforts.

[Demsrule86]

65. Well I disagree. I don't believe Warren or Sanders can win...and that is my opinion. I believe

Biden is the only one who can take the mid west...but I sure as hell won't sign on to any conspiracy theories against either Warren or Sanders...nor would I help the right wing by spouting their talking points ...not saying you do this ...as some have done with the Hunter thing-those who support other candidates-again not saying you. Trump is going to be 'exonerated' (not really but it gives him cover) and we will lose no matter who runs unless this stops.

[Perseus]

5. This is one time when it would have been extremely prudent to keep his mouth shut

The right answer would have been one like this "I won't comment on that, the trial is about trump not about me, there should not be any subpoena presented to me, and I believe there won't, if the media wants to play that game, I won't." or just simply "I won't comment on that, I am not going to play the media's games." or even better "I won't comment on that."

But now he has condoned the actions by republicans to ignore subpoenas. Wrong answer Joe...damn it!

[Zoonart]

7. I agree...

this just opens the door wide for the MSM to run they tired ass both siderism argument devoid of context.

[Perseus]

8. Yeap, and much more to come...

And now Joe has sent a tweet to "clarify" what he said. I keep saying it, he needs someone by his side who can cut him off and provide the right answer. A "No comment" would have been perfect, now he has opened a can of worms.

[Kingofalldems]

10. Oops:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Good job Joe!

[bluewater]

13. And a big oops it is

This unforced error on Biden's part reinforces Trumps refusal to obey 71 Congressional supeonas because he felt they too were not "lawful".

You can't put qualifications on Congressional supeaonas, THEY ARE ALL LAWFUL.

[Kingofalldems]

15. Not a good try there.

[bluewater]

18. Care to point out any unlawful Congressional supeonas?

It's this simple, NEVER say you will not comply with a Congressional supeona.

[Kingofalldems]

59. Biden is not on trial.

That enough for you?

[bluewater]

60. So? A supoena is a supeona.

What's so hard to understand about that?

No one should ignore Congressional supeonas.

[Kingofalldems]

61. Not a fact witness by any stretch.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Do you have evidence he is a fact witness?

If no I wonder why you focus on Biden's response and not the criminal republican/Trumpites trying to muddy the waters?

[bluewater]

63. People can simply refuse to comply with Congressional Supeonas?

Um, no.

You simply MUST show up. Period. Trump is trampling on centuries of historic precedence in refusing to comply with 71 Congressional supeonas. Its the ENTIRE basis of the 2nd Article of Impeachment against him. The argument is that Trump cannot ignore ALL 71 supeonas by claiming Executive privilege so broadly.

Are you now claiming politicians, or anyone else, can now simply refuse to comply with a Congressional supeona?

Can you please point out examples, beside cases invoking Executive branch privilege, where ANYONE was allowed to not comply with a Congressional supeona?

I think not.



We either believe in our institutions and that the rule of law applies to everyone, or we are no better than the Republicans.

If supeonaed, Biden must appear. It's that straight forward.

[Lexee]

64. If supeonaed, Biden must appear. It's that straight forward.

[Demsrule86]

71. No it isn't...I would fight it in court...Trump should get a taste of his own medicine...how many

GOP types have complied. You see Barr testifying in Congress?

[Lexee]

79. No one is arguing fighting it in court. We are saying stating he will not comply is wrong.

[Perseus]

29. We need to stop defending any of Biden's gaffes at all cost

We have to be objective, we have to recognize when our candidate does or says something that we know will bite him/her later, that we do not condone it, instead lets make his campaign know we are not happy with it so they can do something about it. We run the risk of having Biden think that if he shoots someone on fifth avenue in plain daylight that we will still vote for him.

[Perseus]

26. Yes Joe, you are correct, the impeachment is not about you, its about the con

But you did give the wrong answer, and now you are trying to fix it.

Next time take a breath, a long one, before you answer. Think hard about what you are about to say, then don't say anything, just say "No comment", or "I will get back to you", or "This is an irrelevant question."...I don't know, something that works well for you, that doesn't give republicans a justification for ignoring subpoenas because now republicans can say "The same way Biden would ignore subpoenas is why we are doing it, we don't find them credible and to hell with the rule of law, I think we and Biden are on this together." and I am not that smart about these things so you can imagine what republicans will say.

[Peacetrain]

11. This is akin to accusing someone of being at fault because someone attacked them

Trump and company will be on trial for crimes against the Bidens and using those attacks to attack the entire country and our constitution, our democracy.

[Bayard]

12. How else was he supposed to answer this question from The Register?

Equivocate? Not his style.

The impeachment has nothing to do with Biden. Just more smoke and mirrors from the rethugs.

[wellst0nev0ter]

16. How about "You're damn right I'll testify"

"Because I got nothing to hide, unlike our criminal in chief"

It's people like Biden who keep the false equivalency lie alive with these idiotic unforced errors.

[bluewater]

17. By saying of course he would comply with a Congressional supeona?

That's the first thing Joe should have said, then he could say he would expose him being questioned as a distraction from trump's crimes against the country.

It's that simple.

Instead, this unforced error by Biden gives the Republicans excuses to cover Trump's ass.

[Peacetrain]

21. Nope.. you got this one completely bass ackwards.

Biden has nothing to do with this.

[Demsrule86]

35. Fail...clearly some hope that Biden will falter and their candidate will move ahead.

Democrats should not help the GOP this way in order to help their primary candidate...right is right. And there is no reason for Biden to testify...in fact it will almost certainly help Trump. Trump is on trial not Biden and it gives legitimacy to Trumps crimes by calling for Biden to be grilled as if it was appropriate to try to manufacture dirt on an American citizen.

It should give those who advocate this pause to consider that Trump is attacking the 2020 election using his presidential powers. The house risked everything to impeach so now are we going to screw up the Senate trial in order to advance our candidate? I sincerely hope not.

[Perseus]

31. How about "No comment, this is an irrelevant question."

And just move on. Now he has created a controversy, he has justified republicans ignoring subpoenas "just because they don't like them", he has justified the fact that you can ignore the rule of law, etc.

So easy..."NO COMMENT", can't get easier than that.

[JoeOtterbein]

22. Another rookie mistake by Joe.

Don't use your opponent's tactics.

Worrisome.

[Scotch-Irish]

23. I've been saying all along, JOE BIDEN IS NOT GOING TO WIN THE ELECTION!!!!

The democratic leadership is trying to sell him, because he's one of their circle. But he doesn't think well on his feet. This was not just a stupid thing to do, it's AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION!! IT'S ILLEGAL.

I know sane people are scared, and looking behind us to a safer, saner time is only natural. But it won't work in this new world. We have to have courage to step into this new world, and look ahead. The third world war is already being fought, against Russia and China and Saudi Arabia (of 9/11 fame) on the long-game cyber and economic fronts. And the Arab/Russian run Faux News propaganda channel (look at who holds the stock for the company) has everyone in America pulled apart at the seams.

Nobody is talking about what a lethal weapon the supreme court handed our enemy when they ruled that Fox was "an entertainment channel" and free speech meant they didn't have to tell the truth. THAT is the can of worms that the republican-held court opened up to hand our country to the propaganda that rules almost half of our country.

The republican supreme court also ruled (Citizens United) that corporations could contribute to PACs in pretty much unlimited amounts...again calling it "free speech". And the ownership of those corporations (stockholders) are from ALL countries. So they ruled that any country can buy our politicians.

We are on a whole new battlefield, no matter how many guns and bombs and tanks and planes and warships our military/industrial complex can sell. And because of the old rulers, we're losing this war. They refuse to see what we're in the middle of, because of an old mind-set that wants a Joe Biden or a Bloomberg to win. It won't work.

[Gothmog]

30. Joe Biden is the only candidate who can win the general election

[bluewater]

33. Nope. Fortunately at least 4 Dems are beating Trump head to head

That's good news and should make us all happy.

Right?

[Gothmog]

47. Biden is the only candidate that trump is afraid of

trump would love against Warren or sanders. If Warren or sanders I the nominee, then trump will win 45+ states

I admit that I am biased in that I and a good number of real Democrats have been working hard to turn Texas blue. After the 2010 election, the GOP had 101 seats in the Texas House and the Democrats had 49. During the 2018 elections we flipped two congressional seats (Lizzie Fletcher and Colin Allred) and 12 state house seats. We are 9 seats away from taking control of the Texas House. The DCCC has targeted six congressional seats in Texas and we are hopeful that MJ Hegar can defeat Cornyn

If Texas is a battleground state, then the GOP will have to devote significant resources to Texas. No GOP candidate can win the electoral college if Texas is blue

If Warren or sanders is the nominee, Texas will not be a battleground state. MFA is unpopular and taking away private insurance coverage would kill down ballot candidates in Texas.

[Demsrule86]

68. I would be very happy if it was true...but it isn't. State polls show a different story...we will

lose the general...if we run left. We won't take the mid west states we need.

[bluewater]

73. It is true. Any of 4 Dems can and would defeat tRump.

The polls are what the polls are.

[Perseus]

36. Very well put

I agree with you, Biden cannot win.

I have been saying for a while that republicans are coning the country into thinking they are afraid of Biden, THEY WANT BIDEN, they know Biden will come with gaffe after gaffe (just like the one we are discussing on this post), and that is exactly what they want.

[Demsrule86]

45. Yeah" a but her emails moment" among those who support a different candidate...Biden is up in every

poll... Well if some keep it up (not saying you), no one will be able stop Trump and then we are all fucked.

[Turin_C3PO]

70. Bullshit

In poll after poll Biden beats Trump by the largest margin. Warren or Sanders WILL NOT WIN the swing states. I wish that wasn’t the case, but it is. We need to vote in the primaries for someone who will beat Trump.

[Demsrule86]

72. +1000

[Demsrule86]

37. Well you would be wrong...Biden is the only candidate who will defeat Trump period.

Sure I vote blue no matter who...but I like winning.

[janterry]

54. I don't believe he can win, either

n/t

[LAS14]

24. I was pretty much aghast when I heard that he said this. He could have said, "The Republicans...

... were right to ignore congressional subpoenas. They have no legitimacy." I do believe the Republicans are getting away with it so far because they've all taken it to court as a delaying tactic.

[Demsrule86]

27. Total crap...he is being subpoenaed when there is no reason for it in order to help Trump...period.

You must fight Tyrants not cave...I don't care if you like Biden or not.

[LAS14]

34. Yeah, but this a congressional subpoena is legal. You have to fight it...

... in court or you're breaking the law. And the Republicans are loving this!!!!

[Demsrule86]

38. It will not be legal as it has no bearing on the hearings...He will fight it in court as he should.

[Demsrule86]

69. First of all they have to get a subpeona and it could backfire on them...didn't work out so well

attacking Biden for Trump or even some of our own candidates...lot of wishful thinking going on here...but It will work out just fine for Biden IMHO. My worry is that some are giving Trump cover in the hope of advancing their candidates and that should never happen. Removing Trump is my priority period.

[Perseus]

39. Sorry but you are missing the point completely

He just admitted that if he is subpoenaed that he will break the law, that he will ignore it, that he justifies republicans refusal to comply because they don't believe in its validity...this is not about fighting republicans, this is about saying the wrong thing.

So many things he could have said, or maybe just keep his mouth shut and ignore the question, but no, he had to go and say the wrong thing.

[Demsrule86]

43. That is not actually what he said...and the subpoena would be unlawful.

It is really shitty seeing some here ...not saying you... playing Trump's game in order to hurt a great Democrat like Biden and for what?It kind of makes me want to puke.

[Demsrule86]

67. I suggest you read Biden's statement and stop saying things that are not accurate.

Biden is truthful and he should not honor a subpoena anyway based on nothing and most likely illegal.

[Gothmog]

28. It would take 51 votes in the Senate to issue this subpoena and if this happens, Biden will comply

It will take 51 votes in the Senate to issue a subpoena for Joe to testify. If that happens, Joe will testify but it will also be clear that the Senate is not interested in conducting a fair trial

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Proud Liberal Dem]

32. It's really weird

how we hear all of the time how Democrats should stop "playing by the rules" if Republicans are breaking them, but when we decide to do just that, suddenly it's a problem. My knee-jerk response to this on Twitter is that Biden didn't really do anything wrong and him agreeing to honor a Subpoena to Trump's Impeachment Trial would likely be a farce and would give Republicans a platform to do what Trump was trying to do anyway, which is smear Biden and his son? After listening to some other arguments, I'm not sure if that was really such a good idea, but I think that most people see through Trump's tactics on this. Heck, attempting to smear Biden is what got Trump into trouble in the first place.

[bitterross]

40. I think it's good he said it now - not later. It's good strategy. Lets the air out of it now.

I understand and fully support his position. Neither he, nor his son, have any knowledge of the actions for which Trump was impeached. There is absolutely no reason for him or Hunter to be called. Other than, as Biden points out, to change the lead in the news.

My first opinion on this was I'd have preferred he defer and say "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it." Then I started think about that. Since he's said it now and it's getting the headlines NOW, maybe it WON'T be as big a story if they do subpoena him later and he refuses. It probably won't take the headlines away from the real issue - Trump - as much as it would have otherwise, if the time comes. It will be covered, of course, but it won't be breaking news then. It will be "Biden does what he said he'd do. Republicans have to go to court now."

By saying it now, it lets the steam out now. Sure, FOX will make a big deal of it again, and again, and again. We're never going to get he hardcore FOX viewer anyway. By the time the subpoena him, hopefully, for everyone else it will just be "ho-hum" though.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. He wouldn't "defy" it; he'd challenge it in court,

which is exactly what he should do since he's not a percipient witness and he has no information relevant to issues to be raised in the impeachment trial.

[guillaumeb]

44. I agree with you.

This defiance seems to be a validation of the GOP idea that the Courts can be ignored, as can due process.

If one truly respects the process, one must abide by the process.

[Gothmog]

48. From the Hoarse Whisperer

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[janterry]

51. But he's backtracking

so it was a mistake

[Gothmog]

58. I disagree

[bluewater]

62. Joe's clairification seems unclear.

Will he comply with a Congressional supeona or not?

Will he challenge a Congressional supeona in court or not?

Perhaps the clarification needs more clarifying?

[Gothmog]

82. Not to me

[Demsrule86]

74. More wishful thinking.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

53. Clarification

"I want to clarify something I said yesterday. In my 40 years in public life, I have always complied with a lawful order and in my eight years as VP, my office — unlike Donald Trump and Mike Pence — cooperated with legitimate congressional oversight requests," Biden tweeted Saturday morning. "But I am just not going to pretend that there is any legal basis for Republican subpoenas for my testimony in the impeachment trial. That is the point I was making yesterday and I reiterate: this impeachment is about Trump’s conduct, not mine."

Biden went on to say that the Senate should subpoena White House officials who were witnesses to "Trump’s shaking down the Ukraine government."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-clarifies-after-saying-he-wouldnt-comply-with-impeachment-related-subpoena/ar-BBYqa3e?li=BBnb7Kz

[randr]

55. Foot in mouth-again

He has no reason to answer a hypothetical question

[Demsrule86]

75. Sure he does...

[randr]

81. I beg to differ

He got sucked into the game they play. He was thrown a bone and he picked it up.

[Baked Potato]

56. If the Senate subpoenas VP Biden and he doesn't comply,

the trial of Donald Trump will instantly become the trial of Joe Biden. The smear machine will kick into gear and we will be asked, “What does Joe have to hide?”, and they will say, “What father wouldn’t try to protect their children”.

This is a bump in the road that could get worse, or not. Trump, et al, are itching to make this all about rooting out corruption in Ukraine. And, drawing the Bidens in as conspirators. Joe Biden can’t just Malarkey this one out of the way. Trump is going to fight for his life on this point and just saying you won’t show because it’s not about “me” won’t be enough, IMO.

Joe’s team should have been ready for this question and have a tested response ready to go. The first thing we thought here was, “Oh no, don’t just say you won’t show”. It just sounds bad, no matter what the reason, to say you’ll defy a subpoena.

Yeah, Democrats have to live up to a different standard. That’s what makes it easier to sleep at night. Many of us aren’t rich enough to get away from it all, or religious enough to pray it all away. So, all we have left is honesty and dignity and peace of mind we are doing the right thing.

I think Joe Biden should make a press release and say, “Of course I’ll comply, I’m an honest man, and I’m a Democrat, we always do the right and honest thing”. And, “Look, I’m human, like all of you. And, we all know what Trump is gonna do here. He’s gonna try to make this about me and my son. His Yes-Men in the Senate are itching to shame me, because they are scared, scared because Trump is a criminal and compromised. And, they know Trump is scared too. So yes, I’ll show up, something Trump would never do. I’ll show up and talk to the American people, people I love and respect. I’ll tell them the truth”.

[Demsrule86]

76. That is called caving and there isn't a Democrat who will be safe from these assholes if we

don't stand and fight...they have ignored multiple subpoenas...so why should we honor any that McConnell puts forth?

[Baked Potato]

80. I look at it as extreme vetting. Joe Biden can make this a huge positive

if played right. It’s unfortunate this whole issue is front and center, but it is. Sure, I want him to tell them to screw off. But, in reality, even fighting the subpoena in court or wherever will draw even more attention to Joe. That’s politics. Trump is assembling a team of slimy lawyers to work this for him. If Biden can convince them he will come out on top on this, they won’t call him.

[no_hypocrisy]

77. Circular reasoning if making Biden's refusal equivalent to Trump & WH refusing

their subpoenas. (Biden's refusal legitimizes Trump's refusal which thereby makes the Trump refusal legitimate.)

Biden's testimony is irrelevant to the premises and charges being promulgated. Trump & WH is essential and central thereto.

[sandensea]

78. Right you are, Joe. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

If Cheeto, who IS under investigation (and has been impeached) refuses to show up for any of his congressional subpoenas, Biden - who IS NOT under investigation whatsoever - should have the right to avoid being subjected to GOPee showboating.

[Aaron Pereira]

83. Have to disagree with the idea Biden is making an unforced error.

Trump and McConnell are clearly trying to make Biden's conduct the issue and confuse it with Trump's malfeasance. Any ethical problem with Joe Biden is a totally separate issue that should be examined separately.