Joe Biden calls game developers "little creeps" who make titles that "teach you how to kill"

[Cuthbert Allgood]

Biden, who is currently campaigning to become the Democratic nominee for the 2020 presidential election, shared his opinions in an interview with the New York Times. When asked about Silicon Valley’s expansion of power during his time in the Obama administration, Biden said: “And you may recall, the criticism I got for meeting with the leaders in Silicon Valley, when I was trying to work out an agreement dealing with them protecting intellectual property for artists in the United States of America. And at one point, one of the little creeps sitting around that table, who was a multi- — close to a billionaire — who told me he was an artist because he was able to come up with games to teach you how to kill people.”

“And then one of these righteous people said to me that, you know, 'We are the economic engine of America. We are the ones.' And fortunately I had done a little homework before I went and I said, you know, I find it fascinating,” Biden continued. “As I added up the seven outfits, everyone’s there but Microsoft. I said, you have fewer people on your payroll than all the losses that General Motors just faced in the last quarter, of employees. So don’t lecture me about how you’ve created all this employment.. The point is, there’s an arrogance about it, an overwhelming arrogance that we are, we are the ones. We can do what we want to do. I disagree.”

Biden has expressed his distaste for video games in the past. During 2013, while he was vice president, he proposed an additional tax on violent media, including violent games.

Despite numerous studies showing no link between violent video games and real-life violent crimes, we’ve seen several politicians suggesting extra taxes be added to the titles.

Full Article

Yeah, it's video games. Despite pretty much every study, ever, I'm sure we need to crack down on video games.

And please tell me how this isn't pandering to the older crowd while telling the younger crowd that you don't care?

[highplainsdem]

1. Anyone who brags that he's an artist because he designs games that teach you how to kill people IS a

little creep.

Possibly a sociopath as well.

[Odoreida]

5. Yet another group of people whose vote Joe doesn't want? n/t

[getagrip_already]

35. but thats NOT what he said....

He didn't say what was quoted. He called on billionare a creep. It was the billionare who said he developed games to teach people how to kill.

That is a misleading (intentionally?) title. It's not what biden actually said.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

71. It's the title from the original article.

Thought that's what we're supposed to post.

[redqueen]

6. Somehow I doubt that's what was said.

Artists work on character design, backgrounds, effects, etc. They don't come up with the game mechanics or objectives.

[highplainsdem]

9. Read the quote in the OP. Biden said that creep told him "he was an artist because he was

able to come up with games to teach you how to kill people."

That's a game designer.

And an idiot, if he thinks that makes him an artist.

[redqueen]

13. Is there a recording? Or are we going off memory?

Memory is not so reliable - there is also always a chance of misunderstanding.

[Demsrule86]

68. Who knows? But it is in the OP transcript.

[Mariana]

21. It wasn't a quote. nt.

[highplainsdem]

54. I was referring to the excerpt, which is a quote from the article.

[LonePirate]

64. Depending on his specific job duties, a game designer can very well be an artist.

To think otherwise is to prove your own ignorance on the subject. This is yet another issue where Biden is completely out of touch with people one half his age, let alone one third or one quarter.

[Demsrule86]

69. According to the OP which I assume you read...the guy claimed he was an artist because he taught

kids to kill...he is a creep. And I love the smell of desperation in the evening

[Mariana]

20. I doubt it, too. Joe didn't say he was quoting the guy. nt.

[jberryhill]

7. Haven't spent much time in the Research Triangle area of key state North Carolina, have you?

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/about

Corporate Headquarters

Cary, North Carolina

Founded in 1991, Epic Games is the creator of Fortnite, Unreal, Gears of War, Shadow Complex, and the Infinity Blade series of games. Epic's Unreal Engine technology brings high-fidelity, interactive experiences to PC, console, mobile, AR, VR and the Web. Unreal Engine is freely available at unrealengine.com. For the very latest on the studio, check out @EpicGames.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article235752097.html


The new building will add significantly to the company’s real estate holdings in Cary, giving it room for an estimated 1,750 to 2,000 more employees there, the company said.

...

The video game maker has more than 1,000 employees worldwide, including hundreds in Cary. It has more than 100 hundred open positions for its Cary campus listed on its website. The company also has a significant presence in California, a state that has a large presence of other video game companies.


Who the fuck needs votes in the blue part of North Carolina anyway.

[highplainsdem]

16. No, but years ago I was friends with one of the most successful and respected game designers

around, and he actually was an artist, and concerned with his games' impacts, and he'd have never been so stupid as to brag that he was an artist because he created games showing how to kill people.

[R B Garr]

25. LOL! This is hilarious! Good to see corporations

getting such love!

[jberryhill]

27. I have no idea what the fuck that is supposed to mean

It just so happens that one of my adult children works in the industry. I'll let him know Joe Biden doesn't want his vote.

[R B Garr]

33. I bet you do know what the fuck it means

(Your wording).

Look at all the phony generalized corporate hate that has been going on for years. Entire industries and Wall Street smeared and ridiculed because...corporations, but now so much love and support for corporations over one sentence. It just shows the superficiality of all the corporate bashing from some quarters.

[jberryhill]

38. Please quote me on "generalized corporate hate"

What bullshit.

Please cite ONE post of mine that you are talking about. Just ONE.

That's going to be a fun exercise for you considering what I do for a living, but humor me and tell me what comment of mine you are talking about.

Start with any of my posts on the stupid notion that "corporations don't have free speech" in view of the fact that the leading free speech cases involve parties such as the New York Times Company.

[R B Garr]

39. What bullshit is right.

(Your wording)

I’m not buying that you don’t know the Sanders/Warren general ethos over corporations. Corporate billionaires? Billionaires? Anything ring a bell?

[jberryhill]

41. I've asked you to quote me

And no, I'm not aware of a Warren "ethos over corporations" whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean.

Why don't you address this human being who is communicating with you, instead of some generalized fictional boogeyman.

[R B Garr]

48. What a joke. You just told a Biden supporter to look

at what others had posted in this thread, yet you claim to not understand what Sanders and Warren have said about corporations. Next you’ll be saying that “progressives” fighting the “corporate” centrist Dems isn’t a Thing. Never happened.

The double standards show the superficiality.

[boomer_wv]

43. Isn't it

Elizabeth Warren who spent the past year railing on the tech industry? Do you think that didn't include game firms? Be sure to let your son know that Elizabeth Warren doesn't want his vote either.

[jberryhill]

46. A more competitive market among smaller firms would be great for him

It's a shame you don't seem to understand anti-trust law.

[boomer_wv]

55. There it is.

The double standard this whole thread is about.

Joe Biden calls one guy a creep and he's looking to take down the entire game industry......Warren spend a year talking about taking down every big tech firm in the country, it's just her protecting us against Corporatism.

[jberryhill]

57. So bizarre

You just run on auto-pilot, don't you?

There is a huge difference between concerns about concentration of ownership, anti-trust, and tax policies on the one hand, and labeling individuals who work in an industry as creeps.

That is not a "double standard". But from the perspective that cannot differentiate between regulatory concerns about large industries, and insulting people, I can see how the distinction may be hard to grasp for some.

[R B Garr]

62. Exactly! And look at all the scrambling trying to

pretend that this five-year corporate insult-fest never happened. One sentence from Biden is enough to circle the wagons around the poor little misunderstood gaming industry and their corporate millionaire/billionaires. Don’t hurt them!

[Beakybird]

2. Good point! I love Biden, but he's dead wrong on this.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

14. There's still time before the voting starts for Joe to evolve on this issue.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

72. And out of touch outside his demographic.

First weed is a gateway drug and now this.

[jberryhill]

3. Hoping my oldest son doesn't see that one

He graduated from a top art & design school with a degree in game design and landed one of those jobs that Biden doesn't seem to think exists.

"Just kidding guys, go back to mining coal and turning bolts on an assembly line. I'm sure you'll be fine."

[Mariana]

12. He'll see it.

You can be sure this will be passed around among the people who work in that field.

[redqueen]

15. Definitely.

It's bound to be making the rounds on social media as well.

[IcyPeas]

4. didn't he recently tell miners to learn how to code?

oh Joe. No. just No.

some game developers are very talented creative people. it's 2020 for chrissake.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. Yup, Joe told miners learn how to code. This'll be another 1 Joe's advisors advise him to walk back.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Hav]

22. No, he said they can learn how to code

as in being able to learn that. It looks like Sanders supporters continue to lie about that and they apparently also believe that miners are too dumb for that. That's some petty, elitist attitude.

[redqueen]

8. This is painful. nt

[R B Garr]

10. You have to laugh at the double standards at calling

corporate billionaires names.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

73. Yes, all game designers are billionaires.

And we don't know that this guy was, either. It was just part of Joe's "folksy" story.

[R B Garr]

81. Just a quick Google shows his worth: $50 MILLION

Plus stock. There was another thread about who it was, but even you don’t care who it was, just that Joe might have said something, sometime, to somebody, and phony outrage ensues, lol.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

82. OK. So not a billionaire. Not even close, actually.

Good to know Biden was wrong.

[R B Garr]

83. Actually, plus stock puts him close to a billion.

But you don’t know who he is, you just know that almost-billionaires are off the hook from the so-called “progressive” anti-corporate agenda.

Nice to see your concern over a no-name corporate millionaire/almost-billionaire, lol.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. Unbelievable

Just kidding. Totally believable.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

18. VERY believable indeed, but there's still time before Iowa voting begins to back-pedal on this.

But Joe needs to do this very quickly!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[beastie boy]

31. Calling a little creep a creep? Totally believable. Calling game developers creeps? Never happened.

Blaming the entire video game industry for violence? Don't make me laugh!

And I would love to hear how calling video game developers "the economic engine of America" is not laughably arrogant!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

74. So you are claiming that Biden isn't blaming violence on video games?

Because it's not the first time he's made that claim.

[beastie boy]

87. I am claiming that Biden didn't say what is in the headline of the article.

And I am further claiming that it is ridiculous to draw the conclusions you drew based on what you cited.

If you wish to argue that Biden is blaming violence on video games, you will have to find better sources than the pathetic comedy of errors you linked to.

[highplainsdem]

56. This was at a time when Obama had asked Biden to look into the effects of violent video games.

See this thread for context:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287434908

[oasis]

91. THIS

[JoeOtterbein]

19. K n R ! Thanks for posting! nt

[Skidmore]

23. There is some truth to that.

Some games are so violent and exploitive, it is hard to understand the minds they come out of.

I'll never understand why video games are considered beyond criticism. I do think they can be harmful sometimes.

[highplainsdem]

58. And at the time this happened, Obama had asked Biden to look into the effects of violent video games

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287434908

[Cuthbert Allgood]

75. There has never been a connection found that shows video games cause violence.

It's not a thing. You may not like them, but it doesn't do what Biden and others think it does.

[beastie boy]

24. Once again, an absolutely fake claim of what Biden ACTUALLY said.

He called out ONE, count them on both hands, ONE little creep for being a creep, and some opinionated journalist wannabe turns it into "Joe Biden calls game developers "little creeps"!

Next step, spread it all over social media: "Biden is blaming video games!"

WTF? How does one little creep turns into "game developers" and how do game developers turn into the entire video game industry? And how is Biden responsible for generating these piles upon piles of bullshit?

[R B Garr]

26. LOL, yes, and look at all the corporate love now!

How dare a corporation be called out with one little sentence. Watch your words! The corporations can hear you and will be so hurt!

The silly double standards...

[jberryhill]

28. You'll have to get on the same page with your buddies

Look upthread. Seems the other Biden supporters agree that its the entire industry.

[beastie boy]

36. "Don't look at what Biden actually said, look upthread"!

A winning argument!

No, I don't have to get on the same page with anybody. And that includes the jerk who wrote the article. He lied about what Biden said. Nothing in the world will change that.

Unfortunately, little lies like this are getting to be all too common.

[Bummfuzzle]

37. He needs to quit calling people names. This is not the first time. We have a Prez that does it

and I am done with it.

[beastie boy]

42. You are probably right. But this is not the subject of the OP

The subject of the OP is a generalization out of all proportion which is based on a lie.

[Bummfuzzle]

45. Except calling them a creep was in the Op. Hence my comment.

[beastie boy]

52. The OP didn't take issue with Biden calling a creep a creep.

The OP took issue with something Biden never said, and took it one step beyond reality, alleging that Biden was commenting on the video games in general. And then, the OP made a conclusion and offered a criticism based on this double distortion:

Yeah, it's video games. Despite pretty much every study, ever, I'm sure we need to crack down on video games.

And please tell me how this isn't pandering to the older crowd while telling the younger crowd that you don't care?

[George II]

29. You should read up on what psychologists have said about video games. Plus, Biden never said.....

....that ONLY video games "teach you how to kill", did he? Do you REALLY think he thinks banning video games is going to solve everything?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

76. What have psychologists said about video games? Do enlighten me please.

Because when I got my master's in media studies, there was no existing study that credibly showed a link between consuming media and violence.

[George II]

85. See post #47. Some are very concerned with the effect of video games on violence...

Violent video games are very different from consuming media.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

86. Couple reactions.

1. Video games are a form of media. It is very similar. Most studies confirm this.
2. Oh, no...."very concerned."
3. The APA makes it clear that there has been no show effect of video games on violence.
4. The APA does show that there is somewhat of a connection between video games and increased aggression. With significant increases in aggression coming with increased exposure. But the DO NOT have the connection to violence.
5. They CERTAINLY do not claim that it is the cause of increased shootings. Not at all.

But, please, do inform me more. So far it has been the same old. I'd love to hear the new information.

[The Valley Below]

30. More dirty tricks campaigning that only makes the dirty tricksters look bad.

[Newest Reality]

32. Oh no!

He didn't. What?

Is that even logical to say that? Was that off the cuff or has he taken any time to look into the phenomena and culture of both game creation and play? There are good and bad sides to it, as with any cultural phenomena to some degree. That's a big of a backwards and rather conservative view he is espousing because...

There are many TYPES of video games, so a blanket statement is ridiculous. What about all those horror movies? How about all those demented authors who write gruesome, disgusting stories that people love to read? Are they learning to be monsters and psychos, maybe serial killers? Watch out for Grandpa, he likes those movies and books, so he must be an old creep! Of course, that is not to mention the biographies and documentaries about serial killers, bloody wars, an a host of atrocities. People who make, watch and read that stuff are, well, creeps and could be dangerous.

What VP Biden is missing here, and it really should be a glaring issue is that the USA has been and is a rather violent culture. We may present a nice facade of civility and reason, but that's maybe our wishful thinking. We are getting better, but the violence is in the culture and what games, movies, books, etc., provide is a mirror, if anything.

There is the old question as to whether art mirrors reality or reality mirrors art. We need to ask that question again collectively here in this country and consider it to be important and vital that we get some insights for a change.

Is Biden going to be an old fuddyduddy? I would have preferred he just skirted that one if he is going to reflect the thinking and morality of the good old days, because I see that's where that sentiment is coming from.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

34. .0001 percent of the vote

Ehh no biggie will make up for that with Sander's voters once he's out.

[treestar]

44. Yea, really, so fun talking about people

who are going to change their vote because of THIS!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

78. So Biden doesn't need gamers. Or those that smoke weed.

Who else is he going to turn on to pander to his base?

If he keeps doing this, and wins the nominations, let's not all look surprised when these demographics don't vote for him.

[stonecutter357]

40. good let's go Joe !

[George II]

47. From the American Psychological Association:

https://www.apa.org/about/policy/violent-video-games

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that APA endorses the development and implementation of rigorously tested interventions that educate children, youth and families about the effects of violent video game use; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that APA strongly encourages the Entertainment Software Rating Board to refine the ESRB rating system specifically to reflect the levels and characteristics of violence in games in addition to the current global ratings.

[highplainsdem]

49. See this thread for the actual context and why Biden would have offended by anyone bragging

that producing games that show you how to kill people is somehow artistry:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287434908

[redqueen]

50. The effort to lump all businesses together as evil corporations is...

well I was gonna say weird, but I think 'desperate' is actually le mot juste.

[guillaumeb]

51. Violent video games are popular in Japan.

But the Japanese have very strict controls on firearms.

[lunasun]

63. + The first country that came to mind

[guillaumeb]

65. Great minds, and all of that.

[mathematic]

53. John Carmack is the only person I know of that might fit part of this description

He's a genius programmer and video game developer that created Doom, Quake, and many of the engineering techniques for creating first-person perspective video graphics. Doom, which is perhaps what the general public might know best, is a game where you play a space marine that uses lots-o-guns to kill literal demons from hell that are invading mars. Obviously, John Carmack is a creepy, murdery sociopath.

Edit to add:
I see kotaku has dug up some actual meetings, which are helpful.
https://kotaku.com/unsolved-mystery-which-game-industry-exec-did-joe-bide-1841073390

One meeting included the boss of EA. Another meeting included boss of Bethesda (which owns Doom/Quake). Neither of these guys are game developers. They're businessmen, and both boomers too, so describing them as "little creeps" (which is an ageist attack, unless he's literally calling them small) seems unlikely. It's possible that he was referring to Mark Pincus, who was almost a billionaire at the time and is a gen Xer. Too bad Pincus' company's biggest game is Farmville, a game where you pretend to grow plants because you like growing things.

[highplainsdem]

60. See this thread for context, including Obama having asked Biden to look into this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287434908

That thread explains who Biden might have been referring to.

[mathematic]

61. Yes, I just saw that

It was helpful and I just updated my comment, thanks.

[underthematrix]

59. I agree with VP BIDEN

As an African American woman, I don't want African American children using their gaming skills to promote violence. I want them to use their interest in and facility with STEM to improve the quality of life on this planet. I want them to develop tools to go where no man has gone before. I want them to become 23rd century trekkies in this century.

Violence in any form, on any platform makes us stupid, backward and dangerous to the survival of humanity.

[methinks2]

66. Hmm, I'm over 60

I'm over 60 and I'm a gamer. So I guess he's not appealing to my demographic.

[Demsrule86]

67. Did you read the article...he said a billionaire was proud that he taught kids to kill...he is a

creep. Damn you guys are desperate.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

70. What video games teach you how to kill people?

[Tiggeroshii]

77. Mortal combat never killed anyone

The Iraq war however, killed hundreds of thousands...

[Kurt V.]

79. I'm not sure what it's going take for ppl to realize many of his positions just don't make sense

[lapucelle]

80. Yes, but does he say "Happy Birthday"?

Link to tweet

[tirebiter]

84. He just made sense to lot of parents

[Cuthbert Allgood]

88. So do anti-vaxxers. Doesn't make it good science. Or correct. n/t

[honest.abe]

89. This headline is wrong.

He was referring to an executive from one of the gaming companies.. see excerpt below from the article.

And at one point, one of the little creeps sitting around that table, who was a multi- — close to a billionaire — who told me he was an artist because he was able to come up with games to teach you how to kill people.”

As for which game executive Biden was referring to as a creep, Kotaku has some theories about who the person might be, including EA’s then-CEO John Riccitiello.

[dustyscamp]

90. There are a lot of messed up games being made by little creeps out there

examples
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay
he game centers on a male character who stalks and rapes a mother and her two daughters.

Rapeday
https://www.thedailybeast.com/rape-day-game-where-you-play-as-a-dangerous-rapist-pulled-from-steam-after-backlash


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standoff_(video_game)
The game depicts a school shooting, and allows players to take the role of either the active shooter or a SWAT member responding to the event.[5] Players can choose to attack with guns, grenades or knives, and the number of civilian and police deaths are tallied on screen


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatred_(video_game)
Hatred is an isometric shoot 'em up video game developed and published by Destructive Creations that was released on June 1, 2015 on Microsoft Windows. The player character is a misanthropic mass-killer who begins a "genocide crusade" to kill as many human beings as possible.