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Sun Mar 31, 2019, 06:52 PM

 

Buttigieg has 'enormous respect' for Hillary Clinton, says she was 'ill-served' by strategy...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/31/politics/pete-buttigieg-hillary-clinton-2016-strategy/index.html

Buttigieg has 'enormous respect' for Hillary Clinton, says she was 'ill-served' by strategy, media environment in 2016
By Kate Sullivan, CNN
Updated 4:56 PM ET, Sun March 31, 2019


Washington (CNN)South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg said Saturday he has "enormous respect" for Hillary Clinton, and said in her 2016 presidential campaign she was "ill-served by a strategy and media environment."
Buttigieg, a Democratic presidential hopeful, was asked by CNN affiliate WSBT in Indiana, about the backlash he received on Friday about comments he made in January about Clinton's campaign.

"Just to make this clear, I think America would be a much better place if she were President," Buttigieg said. "That's why I voted for her and that's why I campaigned for her, and I have enormous respect for Secretary Clinton."


On Friday, Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill slammed Buttigieg for comments he made in January about Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign.

Buttigieg told The Washington Post magazine in an interview that published in January, "Donald Trump got elected because, in his twisted way, he pointed out the huge troubles in our economy and our democracy." He added, "At least he didn't go around saying that America was already great, like Hillary did."

Merrill called Buttigieg's comments "indefensible," and tweeted, "@HillaryClinton ran on a belief in this country & the most progressive platform in modern political history. Trump ran on pessimism, racism, false promises, & vitriol. Interpret that how you want, but there are 66,000,000 people who disagree. Good luck."

When asked by WSBT on Saturday about Merrill's tweet, Buttigieg said in the industrial Midwest, people perceived the 2016 Democratic candidate "as basically saying that everything was just fine, and we should just believe in the system. And that was unconvincing."

"And so even though people knew that the President was not a great character, I think a lot of folks voted for him just to kind of burn the house down because the system had let us down in so many ways," he continued.

"That's the point that I'm concerned with," Buttigieg said. "It's not a knock on any individual. It's a concern about how we can take the lessons of the last election and apply them to get a better outcome in the next election."


The mayor, who is 37, has formed a presidential exploratory committee, and if elected would be the youngest president in US history, and the first married gay president.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Buttigieg has 'enormous respect' for Hillary Clinton, says she was 'ill-served' by strategy... (Original post)
babylonsister Mar 2019 OP
samnsara Mar 2019 #1
femmedem Mar 2019 #21
George II Mar 2019 #46
sfwriter Mar 2019 #53
brush Mar 2019 #93
IndianaDave Apr 2019 #114
sfwriter Apr 2019 #142
brush Apr 2019 #143
Progressive2020 Mar 2019 #55
True Dough Mar 2019 #57
bitterross Mar 2019 #76
Progressive2020 Mar 2019 #88
InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #120
InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #118
InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #117
Me. Mar 2019 #2
dalton99a Mar 2019 #4
Me. Mar 2019 #98
Cha Apr 2019 #124
Me. Apr 2019 #137
msongs Mar 2019 #3
sfwriter Mar 2019 #56
BlueFlorida Mar 2019 #5
femmedem Mar 2019 #19
Jarqui Mar 2019 #6
lapucelle Mar 2019 #7
crazytown Mar 2019 #23
lapucelle Mar 2019 #31
Qutzupalotl Mar 2019 #37
True Dough Mar 2019 #60
lapucelle Mar 2019 #74
True Dough Mar 2019 #80
Cha Apr 2019 #125
lapucelle Apr 2019 #132
Cha Apr 2019 #133
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #34
True Dough Mar 2019 #61
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #83
True Dough Mar 2019 #87
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #89
True Dough Mar 2019 #92
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #100
True Dough Mar 2019 #104
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #106
True Dough Apr 2019 #108
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #111
True Dough Apr 2019 #112
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #113
True Dough Apr 2019 #115
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #116
Post removed Apr 2019 #119
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #121
lapucelle Apr 2019 #145
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #146
ehrnst Apr 2019 #136
Gothmog Apr 2019 #138
babylonsister Mar 2019 #68
femmedem Mar 2019 #71
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #73
IndianaDave Apr 2019 #122
onetexan Mar 2019 #44
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #102
onetexan Apr 2019 #105
Cha Apr 2019 #126
barbtries Mar 2019 #8
madville Mar 2019 #10
barbtries Mar 2019 #11
madville Mar 2019 #13
barbtries Mar 2019 #14
jcgoldie Mar 2019 #27
madville Mar 2019 #33
Progressive2020 Mar 2019 #51
True Dough Mar 2019 #64
Progressive2020 Mar 2019 #70
madville Mar 2019 #78
Renew Deal Mar 2019 #32
madville Mar 2019 #42
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DBoon Mar 2019 #39
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jcgoldie Mar 2019 #30
delisen Apr 2019 #129
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crazytown Mar 2019 #24
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barbtries Mar 2019 #49
certainot Mar 2019 #58
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onetexan Apr 2019 #107
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JI7 Mar 2019 #9
IndyOp Mar 2019 #15
sarabelle Mar 2019 #26
True Dough Mar 2019 #66
femmedem Mar 2019 #72
Lotusflower70 Mar 2019 #35
babylonsister Mar 2019 #41
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babylonsister Mar 2019 #67
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Cha Apr 2019 #127
zentrum Mar 2019 #52
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Cha Apr 2019 #128
lapucelle Apr 2019 #130
Cha Apr 2019 #131
lapucelle Apr 2019 #140
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 06:55 PM

1. aaaarrrrgggghhhh will make up his mind?

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to samnsara (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:57 PM

21. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

He originally got in trouble talking about messaging that didn't resonate in the rust belt states, and that's what he says here. Completely consistent.

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to femmedem (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:01 PM

46. He should just run his own campaign and not critique one that ended 3 years ago.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to George II (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:17 PM

53. Yeaah... no.

 

His campaign should be informed by her loss. That's how you do better next time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #53)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:03 PM

93. Is everybody forgetting that Hillary didn't lose? The election was stolen.

 

That's what two years of Mueller is all about, trying to prove that.

And furthermore, taking shots at Hillary and Obama is not smart and there is also the huge unmentioned elephant in the room.

Mayor Pete is this year's Bernie Sanders, a likeable, new guy with "fresh" ideas but with a vulnerability as big as Texas that would assure trump a second term if he somehow gets the nomination.

Come on, people. Our country is at stake.

A temporary flirtation with a feel-good candidate is one thing but if we want to win in 2020 we have to nominate an electable candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brush (Reply #93)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:29 AM

114. Analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of previous campaigns is not "taking a shot at them"

 

And EVERY candidate makes some statements or supports specific policies that they eventually rethink.

I enthusiastically voted for Hillary in 2016, in spite of my concerns about her veracity on some points (for instance, her false claim that she had to dodge bullets boarding a plane in a foreign country)! She made errors. Pete Buttigieg will make some errors. And so will all the other candidates. But I support Pete because he's highly intelligent, is open-minded, learns from his mistakes, has military experience, cares deeply about our country and ordinary people, and has diametrically opposite qualities of Trump.

You don't really know that he's not electable. Ultimately, we have to leave that to the wisdom of the voters. It's pretty early in the process, and I, for one, will continue to support him personally and financially until the end of this race.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brush (Reply #93)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 06:46 PM

142. Yeah.... no

 

She lost, that’s why she isn’t president. We need to win back Midwest voters so we can have a real victory, not just a popular vote victory.

Pretending we won seems nonproductive to me.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #142)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 07:03 PM

143. You can pretend trump won without cheating/Russian help...

 

I don't.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:18 PM

55. I Think That We Need To Learn From The Past

 

Any competent Democratic Candidate needs to look at the last Presidential election and get some idea of why Hillary lost and Trump won. It is not about critiquing Hillary; it is about figuring out how to beat Trump. So, analyzing what happened in 2016 is important for victory in 2020.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to George II (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:20 PM

57. He's largely done just that

 

In this case he was asked about the 2016 campaign in relation to the Rust Belt. He made a distinction between the approaches of the candidates.

He is, and had been, largely supportive of Clinton. He critiqued her campaign strategy in this one respect.

I'm sure Mayor Pete would love nothing more than to continue to address his brilliant blueprint for America's future. Hopefully he can do that now and this minor hiccup can peter out, so to speak.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to George II (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:52 PM

76. Really? We shouldn't look at why we lost 3 years ago in an honest manner?

 

Seems like he hit the nail on the head to me.

Buttigieg said in the industrial Midwest, people perceived the 2016 Democratic candidate "as basically saying that everything was just fine, and we should just believe in the system. And that was unconvincing."

There's a racist, bigoted asshole in the White House who ran a whole campaign on "everything is fucked and it's because of immigrants and minorities." Maybe if we had run a campaign on "everything is fucked and it's because of the GOP" we'd have done better.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to bitterross (Reply #76)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:26 PM

88. Good Point

 

I entirely agree with your post. "Everything Is Fucked and It's Because Of The GOP" is both true and an effective basis for a campaign.

Some people in the Rust Belt were duped by Trump. With his lies and his tax cuts for the super-rich, Trump has shown that he does not have the backs of working people.

We need to mobilize our base, yes, but we have to get disaffected Independents as well. There are some people that are not going to be fooled twice by Trump. We need to capture those people and put them into the Democratic column.

The Dems have always been the Party of working people. We need to get back to that, and show that Trump is a liar who does not have the backs of working people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to bitterross (Reply #76)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:48 AM

120. Of course we should... Hillary wrote a whole book on that very subject!!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to George II (Reply #46)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:46 AM

118. Mayor Pete was asked a question... so he answered it. Was no big deal.

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to samnsara (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:43 AM

117. I thought that was very gracious of Mayor Pete to say.

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 06:59 PM

2. That's It?

 

Strategy?
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Joe Biden

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Response to Me. (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:06 PM

4. Robby Mook?

 

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #4)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:26 PM

98. It Seems To Be A Wilful Ignorance

 

of everything that she was up against in that election. Either that or it's naivete.
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Response to Me. (Reply #98)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 04:03 AM

124. Exactly, Me..

 

"willful ignorance".

If he's going to bring up the campaign all the time.. why doesn't he give the whole picture. Not just his divisive points.

He's smart enough, right!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Cha (Reply #124)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 11:33 AM

137. ...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:04 PM

3. hillary piled up millions of extra votes in CA and lost where it mattered most nt

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:19 PM

56. She also came with decades of pre-tarnished baggage.

 

People who knew very little about politics thought she was crooked. The GOP made the most of it. So did the Russians.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:07 PM

5. A day late, a dollar short

 

and doesn't appear sincere.
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Response to BlueFlorida (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:49 PM

19. Actually, that was completely consistent with the quote that got him into trouble. n/t

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:11 PM

6. I don't entirely agree with him on this:

 

"And so even though people knew that the President was not a great character, I think a lot of folks voted for him just to kind of burn the house down because the system had let us down in so many ways,"


Sure, some folks may have "voted for him just to kind of burn the house down " but I think most wanted more of what Obama originally represented: "Change". Trump was new to politics. Hillary represented the old guard or status quo. Trump represented "let's see if a business leader can straighten this mess out because whatever we've been doing with policy wonks and pundits on cable tv, it isn't working"

I think that thirst for change has not been quenched.

If Biden gets the nomination and the GOP pull the rug out on Trump (as I think they'll do while trying to make it look like someone else did it to keep his base loyal) and run a younger Republican, we're talking about a much more competitive race and they have the candidate who represents change.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:12 PM

7. You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

 

Didn't he also have something to say in that interview about President Obama being a "centrist incrementalist" and Joe Biden's age?

It's pretty clear who he's courting and who he's taking for granted.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:03 PM

23. Actually those were the reporter's words.

 

I did a quick search on Buttigieg and centrist and could not find a quote after his JFK essay.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Reply #23)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:28 PM

31. ...

 

A return to the Clinton and Obama style of centrist incrementalism, he says, will invite disaster just as surely in 2020. “Change is something we need to face with clear eyes. It’s scary, but it’s also exciting.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/magazine/wp/2019/01/14/feature/could-pete-buttigieg-become-the-first-millennial-president/?utm_term=.4f24c4b6b3a4
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #31)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:35 PM

37. Those are the reporter's words

 

outside of the quotes.
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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #37)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:23 PM

60. Exactly

 

Reading comprehension is critical!
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Response to True Dough (Reply #60)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:47 PM

74. I can read quite well, thank you very much.

 

The reporter reported Buttigieg saying it.

The mayor did not dispute the reporting.

There is no transcript of the interview available.

A return to the Clinton and Obama style of centrist incrementalism, he says, will invite disaster just as surely in 2020. “Change is something we need to face with clear eyes. It’s scary, but it’s also exciting.”


If you think reporter Bob Moser is lying or mischaracterizing what Buttigieg told him, take it up with Moser's editor.

If reporter Bob Moser is lying or mischaracterizing what Buttigieg told him, Buttigieg should have disputed it immediately. It is not too late for him to do so.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #74)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:59 PM

80. Unless I see the words in direct quotes

 

I'll take them with a grain of salt.

That said, I'm glad Mayor Pete is willing to embrace and endorse change. America can indeed be made a greater place, and Trump has, as expected, taken things in the wrong direction.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #31)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 04:10 AM

125. At least President Obama

 

got things Done "Incrementally"... with all the gop blocking at every turn.

What would Buttigieg have done.. wave his magic wand?

I'd love to hear what President Obama would have to say about this.

Mahalo, lapucelle

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Response to Cha (Reply #125)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 05:34 AM

132. Buttigieg has made strides in his city, but it's taken eight years, some gentrification,

 

and the job is far from finished.

"Incrementalist" Andrew Cuomo achieved the $15/hr minimum wage and tuition free state university in NYS.
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #132)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 05:38 AM

133. Excellent points! Buttigieg can

 

can just stop with trying to make "incrementally" a dirty word.

It doesn't compute. There's all kinds of ways to get progress accomplished. One size does Not fit all.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:34 PM

34. He's peaked. That's it. This is his high-water mark. Sadly, for him it's all downhill from here.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #34)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:25 PM

61. Wrong!

 

I'll bookmark this thread and will be pleased to remind you of these words in the coming months.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #61)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:04 PM

83. Sure. If trivial posts from anonymous people...

 

Sure. If trivial posts from anonymous people have such a profound effect, then have at it! Personally, I just can't get so worked up about things when I disagree with someone. I can't imagine that I'd ever feel compelled to bookmark a post for whatever unlikely delight a "told ya so" might bring someday in the future. How exciting!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #83)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:22 PM

87. But you can find the energy to repeatedly predict doom for Mayor Pete

 

This is at least the second post I've read from you forecasting his political demise. I don't stalk you, so maybe there are a couple or a dozen more.

Yes, discussion forums are full of anonymous people. But if an anonymous person chooses to write multiple posts insisting that a distinguished candidate is done due to one contentious statement, well, a little accountability for such condemnation should be expected. How's that for "profound?"
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to True Dough (Reply #87)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:32 PM

89. Thanks for noticing me.

 

Stand by... there's more to come. Bookmark them all!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #89)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:02 PM

92. Challenge accepted!

 

You'll learn to love being held accountable!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to True Dough (Reply #92)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:38 PM

100. Oh brother!

 


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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #100)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:56 PM

104. We'll see

 

who has the last laugh.
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Response to True Dough (Reply #104)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:01 AM

106. By tomorrow, I'll have forgotten all about you...

 

By tomorrow, I'll have forgotten all about you, and none of this will matter a whit to me. But apparently you'll still be brooding on this, looking for posts of mine to "bookmark"... patiently waiting and counting the minutes for some satisfying "told-ya-so" gotcha-moment of revenge and control. Oooo! How exciting! Enjoy!


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #106)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:05 AM

108. Why wait until tomorrow?

 

I'd encourage you to forget all about me right away. I'll pick my spot down the road for your comeuppance.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #108)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:12 AM

111. Clearly I've stepped on a nerve and gotten under someone's skin!

 

I'll pick my spot down the road for your comeuppance.
Clearly I've stepped on a nerve and gotten under someone's skin. Honestly, it's all very amusing that my observations mean so much and that my comments are taken so seriously that someone is threatening to "stalk" me and threaten me with some future "comeuppance". I can't imagine... but, knock yourself out. Happy hunting and stalking me.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #111)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:18 AM

112. Takes two to tango!

 

For every post where you claim that you can so easily move on, another follows where you just simply cannot live up to your (meaningless) word.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #112)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:21 AM

113. I'm in your head now. Good.

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #113)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:38 AM

115. Likewise!

 

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Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #115)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:42 AM

116. If you say so. Finally, something we can agree on!

 


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Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #116)


Response to Post removed (Reply #119)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:59 AM

121. You know good and well that's not what I said.

 

Despite your contention, you clearly cannot let go.
You know good and well that's not what I said. I said that by tomorrow I will have forgotten you.

I've chosen to make an example of your derelict posts, so I'm invested by choice.
"Invested by choice??" Oh good lord! I guess that's as good of a euphemism for "being obsessed with" as any others that I've heard of.

"Make an example??"

"Derelict posts"??



PS: Pete will not be our party's nominee. Our nation isn't ready for someone with so little experience. He's just a novelty that will be forgotten after Super Tuesday.



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #121)

Tue Apr 2, 2019, 06:24 AM

145. "I've chosen to make an example of your derelict posts..."

 

Somebody needs a donut.

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Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #145)

Tue Apr 2, 2019, 09:05 AM

146. Somebody needs *something* ... that's for sure!

 

Somebody needs a donut.
Somebody needs *something* ... that's for sure! Maybe a whole box of doughnuts? Or a life. Wasn't that the most absurd thing you've ever seen?

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Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Reply #92)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 08:32 AM

136. "Held accountable?"

 

You think NurseJackie will be personally to blame if Buttigieg doesn't win the nomination?

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Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Reply #61)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 02:03 PM

138. Can you tell me what mayor pete has accomplished in the real world?

 






If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #34)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:32 PM

68. I love your enthusiasm, as always. nt

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #68)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:40 PM

71. Thank you so much for this.

 

The whole brouhahah is depressing, but your response made me laugh.
I appreciate your OP, too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #68)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:42 PM

73. ... and my honesty too.

 

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #34)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 01:08 AM

122. I think your conclusion is premature

 

At this early stage of the nomination process, no one can be so summarily ruled IN or OUT of the race.

I sincerely don't want to be in your face about it, but I'm still open to Joe Biden entering the race, in spite of his age (I'm the same age, and it is a valid consideration). I love Joe, but I think all the big guns will come out if he declares his candidacy. He will be harshly attacked for his leadership of the Judiciary Committee's investigation into the Anita Hill claims, which he handled very badly. I watched those hearings, and I was amazed how badly Anita Hill was treated. People will dredge up all kinds of problematic material on Joe. But I don't believe it's "all downhill" for him. He deserves a chance to prove himself over the course of the campaign.

And so, I would ask you to moderate your quick, and puzzlingly hostile, judgment of Pete Buttigieg. We have a lot of excellent candidates, but none of them are perfect. Please give Pete Buttigieg a chance. Don't write him off so abruptly. Thanks!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:55 PM

44. Yea this isn't starting well for him

 

Being critical of Hillary isnt going to win him any points. He's a novice compared to her.
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Response to onetexan (Reply #44)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:44 PM

102. A flash in the pan... he won't be our party's nominee. The novelty of it has worn off.

 

Yea this isn't starting well for him
A flash in the pan... he won't be our party's nominee. The novelty of it has worn off.

He's a novice compared to her.
This is the kind of mistake that someone's lifelong experience helps them to avoid making.

Aside from that he seems like a very nice fellow. Maybe becoming a congressman or senator is next for him... but, it is Indiana, so that may be a bit of a challenge. Oh well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #102)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:00 AM

105. Agree. If he was mayor of NYC i'd give him more credit

 

Seems he needs experience at the federal level, maybe run for congress. A little too wet behind the ears for me at this point. Im not a fan of those who puff up their chests when they havent yet proven themselves.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to onetexan (Reply #105)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 04:19 AM

126. And, puff it up by

 

tearing others down.
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Joe Biden

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:12 PM

8. i don't think her strategy was bad.

 

the electorate was bad. the russians were bad. the propaganda against her - 30 years' worth - was bad. i personally think that in the swing states with minute margins they were probably stolen although i have no actual proof. she won the popular vote by 3 million.

fact is Hillary should be president. i wish Buttigieg had mentioned other things. i don't agree with this "poor disaffected people" thing. I have no sympathy for anyone voting for trump when they had all the information they needed to see he would be a catastrophe. do people prefer a catastrophe? should i feel sorry for them and try to appease them now?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to barbtries (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:26 PM

10. If you take California away she lost the popular vote by 1.3 million

 

In the remaining 49 combined states. California is a gimme state for Democrats, she was up 4.3 million there alone. California's popular vote total doesn't matter in the general election anyway as we saw. Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, are where this is decided at.
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Response to madville (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:33 PM

11. because it has the most people.

 

it's my home state. in a representative democracy the people should decide the vote imo
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Response to barbtries (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:40 PM

13. Of course but winning California by one vote or millions

 

doesn't matter in the current system and this system isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The majorities we would need to get rid of the EC would make the change moot anyway because obviously we'd have already won a huge portion of the US.
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Response to madville (Reply #13)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:42 PM

14. i had to look that up

 

did not previously know that. from snopes:
"In any case, it is true that the margin of votes by which Hillary Clinton won the state of California was significantly greater than the margin by which she won the national popular vote. But even if Clinton’s 4.3 million vote victory over Trump in California provided her overall winning edge, it wouldn’t be an issue if she hadn’t also amassed enough votes all the other states to make that outcome possible."
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Joe Biden

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Response to madville (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:20 PM

27. thats stupid

 

Why would you take California away other than to somehow find justification for the election of douchebag Trump?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #27)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:33 PM

33. It's the system we have to work with

 

Who cares if she won California by one vote or 4.3 million or won the popular vote by 3 million? It doesn't matter what the popular vote margin was. What matters is who wins Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan and that's where most resources and time should be directed to win the Electoral College. The Clinton campaign failed to connect with independent voters in those last four states specifically and it cost us all.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to madville (Reply #33)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:12 PM

51. You Are Exactly Right

 

The Electoral College is the System that we have, so strategy must be based upon it. Maybe one day it will be changed, but for now it is pie-in-the-sky to think that we will be free of the Electoral College.

The Russia Bots, The Fake E-Mail Scandal, Comey, Right Wing Smears, etc all dragged Hillary down, but it would have all been moot if she had done more work in the Mid-West and other key States. She could have overcome the Comey Effect and whatever else dragged her campaign down by working more in those key states.

So, whoever wins the Nomination this time around needs to focus on the whole country, of course, but also specifically Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. We need victory in true blue states, yes, but we also need to win swing states in addition to places like California and New York.

We do need to energize and mobilize the base, but we also need to add as many Independents as possible to the base. Getting out the vote of Democratic Loyalists is part of the strategy, but adding Independents to that mobilized base is where the margin of victory wil be.

Trump duped a lot of working people, and whoever wins the Democratic Nomination will need to sway some Rust Belt people and show how the Democratic Party is going to make their lives better than Trump's lies. Trump's lies and tax cuts for the rich are not going to play as well the second time around. Some people will not be fooled again. We need a candidate and a strategy that will bring some of these swing voters over to the Democratic candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to madville (Reply #33)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:27 PM

64. You do realize that Pete Buttigieg is proposing to scrap the electoral college?

 

It's one of his many great campaign planks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #64)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:38 PM

70. I Think That Is Great

 

We do need to get rid of the Electoral College, if possible. It would be difficult to achieve, but might be worth the effort. I am glad that Buttigieg has it in his campaign plan.

Still, I think that other issues should have higher priority. Jobs, Fair Wages, Health Care, Education, Fixing Income Inequality, Climate Change/Green New Deal, Infrastructure, etc, are all important issues.

Bread and butter issues will be key to getting swing voters in addition to mobilizing the Democratic Base. So, glad that he has a good position on the EC, but I am looking forward to seeing him and other Dem Candidates pushing progressive policies for working people and showing how Trump has lied to working people. Some people were duped by Trump, and with his tax cuts for the rich, he has shown that he does not have the backs of working people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #64)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:54 PM

78. It's a nice thought

 

But until you get 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of the state legislatures to agree to do it nothing is going to change. People like to talk about that law passed by some states that their electoral college votes must go to the popular vote winner but that would only matter if you can get some purple or red states to sign on to it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to madville (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:31 PM

32. I don't buy that California magically doesn't count.

 

It counts and most people voted for her.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #32)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:45 PM

42. Of course it counts for the EC but the popular vote doesn't

 

Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania count way more than California because of the EC. A one vote or 4.3 million vote margin in California is meaningless as we saw.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to madville (Reply #42)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:23 PM

59. Florida, Ohio, Michigan, etc Clint because California votes the way it does.

 

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Undecided

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Response to madville (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:39 PM

39. If you take away Texas, Hillary would be president

 

neither state is going away.
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Joe Biden

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Response to DBoon (Reply #39)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:42 PM

40. Very True

 

My point was that the popular vote is meaningless and President is decided by 4 or 5 states under the electoral college system, no one cares about California or Texas in a Presidential election, because they don't matter. Texas is trending but we probably need at least another decade for it to get to toss-up status like Florida.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:38 PM

12. The popular vote?

 

That's like saying after you lose 9 to 5 in game 7 of the World Series that you got more hits than the other team! That and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

God knows how many votes the basket of deplorables comment cost us when there was absolutely no upside to it
for our side other than a little short lived satisfaction.

My daughter was ready to vote for Hillary until she called her mother (my ex) deplorable. She is loyal to her mother above all else. I tried to get her to reconsider but there was no conversation to be had after that.


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Undecided

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #12)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:43 PM

16. how does she feel about it now?

 

would she do it over?
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Response to barbtries (Reply #16)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:49 PM

18. Yes. My ex was lost a long time ago. My daughter is loyal to her above all else.

 

Anyone she perceives to attack her mom is of no further use to her at all. That's just the way it is. And yes, under the same circumstances she'd do it all over again.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #18)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:51 PM

20. that's wild.

 

sorry to hear it.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #20)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:58 PM

22. I know. But that's just the way it is.

 

Still, why do it when there was no upside? Even Hillary prefaced the remark with "you know, just to be grossly generalistic..."
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #22)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:20 PM

28. as with another remark she made that she

 

was vilified and ridiculed for ("a vast right wing conspiracy", she was actually right.

so it is wrong that Hillary is a truth teller. honestly she could do no right for way too many people.

for chrissake trump bragged about grabbing women by the pussy, dissed a gold star family, i could go on. Hillary told the truth and gets shit from the left over her strategy. One of my coworkers dissed her for telling coal miners that coal's not coming back, something all thinking people recognize as true. The fact is she had a STRATEGY for dealing with that reality.

I'm not arguing perfection - no such thing. But her campaign was good. It was hacked and weaponized against her. Right wing media and indeed all media paid all the attention to trump.

Hillary and the country were screwed. she's given NO margin for error. it's sexist, republican BS and I get really tired of it.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:37 PM

38. Agree, barbtrees & Pete's observations about '16 are being blown out of proportion by a few here.

 

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Undecided

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Response to barbtries (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:08 PM

94. What does being right matter?

 

Political campaigns are 95% marketing exercises. Coming out and saying ‘if you don’t like my product, you’re a fucking asshole’ is a really shitty way to try and sell your product.

It was an absolutely stupid thing to do in a presidential campaign and might have cost her the election. I still have no idea why she thought it was acceptable.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #94)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:19 PM

96. what does being right matter.

 

hm.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #96)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:22 PM

97. No seriously.

 

If she’d come out and said ‘if you support Trump you're probably a racist’ she’d also have been right. Does that mean it would have been ok to say?

You can’t just say anything you want in a political campaign and fall back on the reasoning that ‘well its true’. Well you can, but then you won’t win.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #28)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 06:05 AM

134. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

 

Plus, people forget that the states that fatso HAD to win were highly compromised:

PA., Wis. and Michigan all had hideous problems with GOP lead voter-suppression (Look at how Stacey Abrams and Andrew Gillum were negatively affected in the 2016 Mid-Terms runs in Ga. & Fla. for Governor) GOP-lead voter-suppression/voter-purging during the 2016 mid-terms. And on top of that you throw in voting rights being stripped away thanks to Scalia. Amongst other things there was misogyny, rigid Voter ID laws/voter-purging/cross-check/ the corporate media hacks/Comey being a naive fool/assholes who were anti-Hillary Clinton/in love with Ghouliani @ SDNY/twitter/facebook/ruskie troll farms and do we really know if with 100% certainty if they messed with vote count in some way in various states that fatso won? As for Ohio, it's never been the same since Ken Blackwell did his thing there in 2004 and we KNOW that Florida has also been highly compromised since 2000 when Harris and Jeb hooked up there with the Supreme Court to throw the election to Bush from the High Court.

I HOPE Dems sure up voting as best as they can in the states that fatso cheated to win in 2016 (Not sure anything can be done about Ohio or Florida). We know fatso isn't here for fair elections, and has done NOTHING to make sure that all the votes will be counted. He called on his puppet-master Vlad once before:

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, referring to emails Mrs. Clinton had deleted from the private account she had used when she was secretary of state. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

As it turns out, that same day, the Russians — whether they had tuned in or not — made their first effort to break into the servers used by Mrs. Clinton’s personal office, according to a sweeping 29-page indictment unsealed Friday by the special counsel’s office that charged 12 Russians with election hacking.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/trump-russia-clinton-emails.html


And we know damn well he's calling again on his ace in the hole which includes ruskie hackers/newer and bigger ruskie troll farms and who knows if they'll attack our old, and outdated electrical grid systems all across this country in someway? We know that corporate media hacks like Chick Toad will continue to ask aloud whether or not if Dems really need to "Be doing all this investigating or of tRump or concentrate on the problems of this country." Meanwhile, tRump is tearing this world apart at the seams with his racism, sexism, ignorance while the GOP sits by defending him because the love those deficit-raising, budget-busting tax cuts for the rich and packing the courts with YOUNG federalist judges for life. We know he talks to his buddy Vlad secretly and doesn't tell anyone what they're talked about. Worry about that Toad you hack. That shit is treasonous right there. Let's discuss that more Toad!

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #12)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:21 PM

30. More Hillary bashing

 

congratulations.
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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 04:44 AM

129. I believe Clinton said" half" are deplorable and it was an overheard comment

 

certainly not a strategy.

What cost us was the hiding the Russian influence and voter suppression. Clinton certainly did not do that.

Yes candidate must be very careful about what they say but in retrospect I think a large percentage of Trump voters are deplorable. What is not deplorable about neo-Nazis?









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Undecided

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Response to barbtries (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:45 PM

17. This didn't help in the rust belt either. This and "deplorables" comment was not good strategy.

 


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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #17)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:07 PM

24. Hillary never said 'America is already great'

 

Those are Obama’s words at the convention. Early on she said ‘America never stopped being great’ but that was it. Pete is dead wrong on this.
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Response to crazytown (Reply #24)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:11 PM

25. OK, she retweeted it.

 

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Undecided

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #25)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:21 PM

29. Yes. It was a one off quoting the President.

 

She did not go around saying it. That may have been the impression that Pete had of the strategy, but if you read through the transcripts of her rallies, that sentiment - things are going great, is not there. What is there is ‘We can’t go backwards’, something Pete would agree with.

Whatever else, I don’t remember Hillary’s campaign as being complacent.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #17)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:35 PM

36. the pussy grabbing bigoted trash was going to make it all better

 

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Response to barbtries (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:59 PM

45. Hillary campaigned in 3 cities in Florida.

 

Actually, one is a metroplex, South Florida. She and her surrogates went to South Florida, the Tampa-Orlando area and Jacksonville. Most of Florida's 67 counties did not get anyone of note representing her campaign. Florida is a state where just a 200-2000 vote lost margin in smaller counties that were not covered makes all the difference in the world between winning the state and losing it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #45)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:09 PM

49. I am not trying to argue that mistakes weren't made.

 

hopefully all Democrats learn. I have long yearned for a return to the 50 state strategy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to barbtries (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:21 PM

58. the amazing thing is democrats still analyze politics as if rw radio didn't exist

 

the GOP friendly think tanks and maybe the kremlin sit around waiting for progress and democracy to rear its threatening head and then they yawn and come up with a pr campaign to distort, distract, destroy. then spew it out of 1500 coordinated radio stations manned by dittoheads who know they'll lose their jobs if they even think about challenging the limbaugh messaging.

her strategy was only bad in the sense that all the democratic strategists live in cities and have no clue why republicans have been kicking our ass for 30 years. they shouldn't even be in the running, with 'there is no global warming' 'defund puiblic ed' etc but they are because dem strategists live in cities, ignore the talk radio that dominates 40 states with 80 senators, and then try to come up with one excuse after another, blaming symptoms for one disaster after another.

he r mistake is the same as all other dem candidates in every other state and race in the country the last 30 years - ignoring talk radio in their communities, states, country - because it hurts to listen to it.

maybe artificial intelligence can save us by digitizing talk radio
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Response to certainot (Reply #58)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:26 PM

63. that certainly has something to do with it.

 

when I think about all that propaganda and hate being spewed all over, I am disturbingly reminded of Rwanda.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:04 AM

107. Agree. Hillary ran an excellent campaign with an awesome

 

Team and campaign manager. No one of course could anticipate a traitor running for office and colluding with russians to sway the vote. The DOTUS is totally illegitimate. No one should be knocking Hillary, nevermind a neophyte like Buttigieg.
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Response to onetexan (Reply #107)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:11 AM

110. thank you.

 

it gets old.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:15 PM

9. Comey, Putin

 

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:43 PM

15. I think Buttigieg would be better off if he had stuck with

 

his message and not contrasted his beliefs about the message that will attract voters to a message that may not have played well to many in 2016.

Pete - You need all the friends you can get. Remember that you are wanting to unite generations and, as the youngest fella in the race you must show respect. Hillary has been the right-wing’s punching bag for almost 40 years. Enough.
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Response to IndyOp (Reply #15)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:15 PM

26. I respect an honest perps. I respect truth. I respect intelligence.

 

He appears to me to an honest intelligent person. I, too, was a proud supporter of Hillary. She was correct about so many things and Mayor Buttgieg is correct, we would be much better place if she had been elected.

We do ourselves no favors by backing away from our choices because they are unpopular. We need to learn to stand in the face of the lies and bullying. Rep. Schiff is an example of standing in the face of lies and bullying. Hats off to him.
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Response to sarabelle (Reply #26)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:30 PM

66. Welcome to the DU, sarabelle!

 

I would have extended that greeting even if you weren't a fellow supporter of Mayor Pete!

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Response to sarabelle (Reply #26)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:41 PM

72. What a great first post.

 

Welcome to DU. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:34 PM

35. Whatever

 

He pissed off a lot of women voters me included with his initial comments. And now he wants to backtrack because we called him out for it. He says he doesn't need the HRC and wants to cater to WWC, that will sink him right quick. He is oblivious to women and minorities and barely acknowledges LGBT, he also defended Mike Pence. See ya later Pete.
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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #35)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:44 PM

41. Defended Pence?

 

Can you tell me how, or give me a link? I think not, from what I've read.
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Response to babylonsister (Reply #41)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:08 PM

48. Buttigieg called Mike Pence "a super-nice guy"

 

Probably one of nicest Nazi out there.
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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #48)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:25 PM

62. Super nice guy who has abandoned his values to

 

support porn star president. Noting that someone demonstrates social graces and is rotten to the core does not qualify as a defense. More like an excoriation.
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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #48)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:27 PM

65. Um...that was 2 years ago

 

He more recently stated: "I used to at least believe" that Pence "believes in our institutions and was not personally corrupt, but then how could he get on board with this President?" He was pretty harsh on Pence, in fact pretty blunt for a politician. For heaven's sake, he called Pence a "Cheerleader for the Porn Star President".



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Response to crimycarny (Reply #65)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:38 PM

69. He apparently doesn't have good instinct then. Pence was rotten 2 years ago too.

 

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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #69)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:47 PM

75. I think he knows that...

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pete-buttigieg-mayor-petes-strategy-for-beating-trump-is-to-target-fellow-hoosier-and-vice-president-mike-pence?source=articles&via=rss

Mayor Pete’s Strategy for Beating Trump: Target Vice President Mike Pence
The intensity of Pete Buttigieg’s critiques of the vice president speaks to a long history, both political and personal—and the young mayor’s deep disdain for hypocrisy.
Scott Bixby
03.31.19 9:31 PM ET


Mayor Pete Buttigieg’s message for fellow Democratic hopefuls is a straightforward one: It’s not enough to just attack the president—no matter how loathsome you might find his words, actions and policies.

The vice president, on the other hand? It’s a little more complicated.

“It just felt like every few months, there would be some fresh embarrassment,” Buttigieg told The Daily Beast, in a conversation about his time as mayor of South Bend, Indiana, under then-governor Mike Pence. “We had to deal with this kind of rotation of blunders that really made our entire state look silly.”


Other Democratic candidates have occasionally criticized Pence on the campaign trail: Sen. Kamala Harris called Pence’s past remarks about his refusal to dine alone with women without his wife present “outrageous,” and former Vice President Joe Biden was forced to backtrack after calling Pence “a decent guy” during a speech in Iowa.

But the frequency and intensity of Buttigieg’s critiques of the vice president speaks to a long shared history, both political and personal—as well as the young mayor’s deep personal disdain for perceived hypocrisy. Pence’s outspoken religiosity, the mayor said, is in direct and irreconcilable conflict with his position in the Trump administration, and with Buttigieg’s belief in the importance of “good faith.”

“That’s one of the biggest things that scripture councils us to avoid,” Buttigieg, a churchgoing Episcopalian, told The Daily Beast. “It is galling… it’s just a real affront to see that happen.”


more...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pete-buttigieg-mayor-petes-strategy-for-beating-trump-is-to-target-fellow-hoosier-and-vice-president-mike-pence?source=articles&via=rss
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Response to babylonsister (Reply #75)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:52 PM

77. I really don't give a rat about Trump, Pence, or Pete. Or how they commingle with each other.

 

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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #77)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:35 PM

91. then why did you dishonestly claim Pete had defended Pence

 

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Response to dsc (Reply #91)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:44 PM

101. I didn't. Someone wanted the words. Words+Google. Not that it makes any difference anyway. nt

 

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #35)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:11 PM

50. He said Pence was 'the cheerleader for the pornstar presidency'

 

“How could he allow himself to be the cheerleader of the porn star presidency?” Buttigieg said. “Is it he stopped believing in scripture when he started believing in Trump?”

Explain yourself.
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Response to crazytown (Reply #50)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:31 PM

67. Ha! That's what I remember. Thanks. nt

 

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:50 PM

43. I cannot figure out

 

Why we have to insist Hillary ran the perfect campaign in a loss. All that does is encourage us to stick with the same steategy that lost last time. Do you want to beat Trump or not!?!?
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Response to TheFarseer (Reply #43)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:06 PM

47. Counties like mine were ignored by our side.

 

I saw Trump voters getting more and more jacked up and our side getting more deflated. Trump even came to the county. Even with that Hillary did well here, but reducing Trump's vote by 800 votes in Florida counties like mine that are red but have a lot of democrats could have seen Hillary win Florida. I think Buttigieg is right, but he stepped on his dick trying to explain what he felt. I know as the election of 2016 closed, I felt ignored and really concerned as I saw local Trump people strutting more and more and becoming more excited.
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Response to TheFarseer (Reply #43)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 04:38 AM

127. Because No One said it was "perfect" EVER.

 

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:16 PM

52. Really hope Hillary

 

...will not make it a practice of "slamming" our current candidates if they decide they need to distinguish themselves from her.

Wish she could let it go and just support at this point. We face an emergency and need to quite re-litigating 2016.
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Response to zentrum (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:03 PM

81. When did she slam our current candidates? N/T

 

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #81)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:20 PM

85. Yes, you're right but since

 

...article quoted her spokesman, I figired he spoke for her:

"On Friday, Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill slammed Buttigieg for comments he made in January about Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign."

I guess I over-read the word "spokesman" as it's possible it is meant in only a general way rather than that he is actually speaking for her. In any event her people, her spokesmen, etc. should, IMO, be pro-actively told to not be saying such things at this point.
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Response to zentrum (Reply #85)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:34 PM

90. A reporter characterizes a spokesperson's reaction to a particular statement

 

as "slamming Buttigieg for comments he made", and it somehow morphs into HRC "slamming our candidates".

Interesting...

This is indefensible. @HillaryClinton ran on a belief in this country & the most progressive platform in modern political history. Trump ran on pessimism, racism, false promises, & vitriol. Interpret that how you want, but there are 66,000,000 people who disagree. Good luck.


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Response to lapucelle (Reply #90)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 04:41 AM

128. Oh the "Morphing"..

 

You're going to need more donuts.
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Response to Cha (Reply #128)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 05:23 AM

130. "HRC should proctively tell people who are not HRC to refrain

 

from expressing their opinions..."

Even as a private citizen, she's required to meet a different standard.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #130)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 05:33 AM

131. What!? Someone on this

 

board said that?! Oh, or is that your interpretation from what they're saying?


And, is the above tweet from Nick Merrill suppose to be slamming Buttigieg?

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Response to Cha (Reply #131)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 04:57 PM

140. Someone said this:

 

I guess I over-read the word "spokesman" as it's possible it is meant in only a general way rather than that he is actually speaking for her.

In any event her people, her spokesmen, etc. should, IMO, be pro-actively told to not be saying such things at this point.
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #140)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 09:49 PM

144. O ma gerd!

 

Not happening.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:09 PM

84. Let what go? Which candidates is she slamming?

 

What are you talking about?



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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #84)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:22 PM

86. Right. The

 

....article says her spokesman slammed Buttigieg's words and I assumed he was actually speaking for her.

But I see now that I may be wrong and he's just speaking for himself.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:17 PM

54. I don't like this

 

There are too many excellent candidates out there for me to get excited about a sniper.

Patrick Phillips
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Response to patphil (Reply #54)


Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:56 PM

79. I don't think it was that she said America is great, that actually was a smart appeal to patriotism,

 

something Democrats don't do enough.

Hillary's mistake was thinking she could win just because Trump said stuff that was politically incorrect (ie racist, sexist, etc...). People did not care about that stuff and in fact many agreed with him. She even ran ads about it with kids watching tv. That was really dumb.

People care about what a candidate is going to do, not if he says things that are offensive (to the media, the left, etc...). Republicans made the same kind of mistake with Bill Clinton. Character really doesn't matter, what matters is positions on issues.

In fact I think if someone seems too uptight and politically correct it actually hurts, and that's what the Hillary campaigned seemed like by making a big deal about Trump's character. It was a waste of time. Many people have already said this though, you can't win just by saying Trump is bad.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:12 PM

95. I agree that he needs to stop

 

talking about HRC's campaign.

Reasonable people aren't going to agree and it's just annoying.

Yes - the media environment was a problem - he might mention the sexism within most the media was a problem.

As part of that - the media ignored what mattered about her policy proposals and talked about a lot of nonsense / distractions instead.

The Russians / trolls / etc. spliting the Democrats before and after the convention was a problem.

Etc.

Yes - there are things which can be learned by looking back - but he needs to show that he has learned them - not just talk about some of the things her campaign stategists could have done better.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:26 PM

99. This is what I mean when I say "he's inexperienced at national politicking."

 

I understand what he's saying. I hadn't thought about the "America is already great" statement being the wrong message. Maybe if she had explained it further...that American was already great in so many ways, but has lost its way in other ways. Strategy could have been better, I suppose. But I'm not a political strategist, so hard for me to say.

But Pete made a newbie mistake in saying it the way he did. He hasn't learned the art of phrasing a criticism so that it doesn't appear so personal. I think you usually say something great about the person first, followed up by a criticism, emphasizing that this is what you think, not absolutely know.

Anyway, he'll get better. But I'm concerned that so many of the candidates have no experience politicking on a national level, which is one of the hardest things to do. And with Trump as the opponent, it's going to be tough, even for the experienced ones.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:51 PM

103. If they voted for him "just to kind of burn the house down" then they expected him to be terrible.

 

Since the Democrat won the working class vote and anyone paying attention can see that Republicans destroy the system on purpose, the burn-it-down people must all be in the fantasy Fox bubble with their brains turned off.

Evidently he thinks "I'm With Her" was Hillary's campaign slogan and she only harangued people in the rust belt about how terrible Trump was and how America is great instead of constantly talking about the opioid crisis and the economy and jobs and health care as she did in reality.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:06 AM

109. One of the most ironic post titles I've ever seen. nt

 

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 01:33 AM

123. All the people who say Buttigieg said this wrong or that wrong or apologized too little too late

 

too insincere or doesn't have enough respect for his elders and betters should read this article that quotes the 35 times in her book where she apologized and took responsibility for losing and how the book was portrayed in the media as her not apologizing.

I think it's good she can admit she made mistakes. If only we could stop jumping on our 2020 candidates for trying to learn from them.

https://qz.com/1077873/hillary-clinton-book-how-many-times-clinton-apologized-in-what-happened/
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Response to marylandblue (Reply #123)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 06:41 AM

135. Great post, worthy of its own OP.

 

This quote, wow: "I wish more than anything that I could have done a better job speaking to their fears and frustration. […] I wish I could have found the words or emotional connection."

It's pretty much what Pete said--that our 2020 candidate will have to do a better job of emotionally connecting and of acknowledging what isn't going well in our country for too many people.
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Response to femmedem (Reply #135)

Tue Apr 2, 2019, 05:49 PM

147. Agreed 100%.

 

There is so much policing of every comment about Hillary Clinton. She's no longer on the ballot. And if we're going to persistently criticize our own candidates for 2020, make it over a real issues, not over an editorialized interpretation of the 2016 campaign.

Fortunately, most of the rank and file Democrats I know are ready to win in 2020 and not caught up in defending the quality of the last campaign. It was a heartbreaking loss that I don't want to repeat. So we better learn what we can, retool, and regain the presidency and Senate.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 02:06 PM

139. I was a Clinton delegate to the National convention

 

I do not think that Mayor Pete's attempt at an apology will cut it with Clinton supporters

I will support the nominee and I am glad that we have so many nominees who have actually accomplished things in the real world.
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #139)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 05:06 PM

141. Yes you are probably correct

 

For many members of this community, no mention of Hillary or even unnamed reference is met with a rapid response. I usually think, that long term Hillary supporters would not even be happy if added to the terms of service was a directive that any reference, direct or indirect, to Hillary should be followed immediately with the parenthetical, ", the most perfect, smartest, honest, nicest, empathetic, informed, person in the history of the planet's history and every single policy, speech and statement was by definition perfect if only the we were close to smart enough to understand how brilliant."

I suspect that even this will not be enough unless the whole planet in unison stood up held hands and repeated those words every five minutes in a mantra genuflecting to a picture of Hillary located on every wall in every house on the planet.

Sarcastic view of this site yes but its not far from true. I would like to hear some internal criticism from the fervent Hillary supporters that is not like those job interview questions and answers where you explain your faults and weaknesses as your strengths.

Personally, I was a Bernie or O'Malley supporter in the last election because I thought then and wrote that it is crazy to nominate a candidate with high somewhat baked in unfavorable poll numbers (regardless of whether they were deserved or undeserved) and who had weakness within the democratic coalition shown by the fact that she had lost a primary before to an unknown.

To be consistent, I do not support Bernie in this election only because of the negatives held by many of the 2016 Hillary supporters which is the same situation the other way as 2016. It does not matter to me that I consider those negative emotions towards Bernie undeserved. His only real "crime" was that he actually ran against a front running candidate. He did not cause Trump. He announced before anyone thought Trump had a chance of getting through the Republican primaries. However, the Hillary camp's negatives towards Bernie currently exist and are an important factor in what I think of as "electability" in the coming election and should be a factor in the primary.

However, it would be refreshing to have some honesty in these attacks on any other candidate or supporter who mentions her campaign or the electability problems that Hillary had as a candidate from the moment she started running in terms of baked in unfavorable independent of Bernie, Comey, emails, the Russians and any other factor one wants to name..
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Response to Rilgin (Reply #141)

Tue Apr 2, 2019, 06:32 PM

148. You said it far better than me.

 

No candidate should be immune from constructive criticism, and supporters of any candidate should be respected despite their differences from other Democratic voters. And at the end of the day, we do our utmost to win races and put better policies in place.

There are still times when I learn a great deal from posters on this site, but the ceaseless Hillary Clinton boosterism is not one of the site's better attributes.
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