I am a big fan of Biden and I don't think he meant anything by any of these instances but

[Quixote1818]

I have seen some of the videos out there of him holding teenage girls he just met around the waste, stroking their hair and kissing them on the top of the head as he whispers into their ears and almost all of the kids look totally freaked out. It really looks bad and I feel uncomfortable for the kids watching them! The parents look very uncomfortable too.

Again, I know people like Biden who come from affectionate families and they are great people who mean no harm but you flat out CAN'T put your hands all over teenage kids or adults like this. Imagine if your boss did that to your kids or some coworker who just met them. What would you be thinking? He gets away with it because he is very powerful.

Remember all the outrage here over the Bishop with his hand around Ariana Grande's waste? Everyone on DU was freaking out! Well what Biden does to these young girls looks 100 times worse and yet there is a lot of silence now about this.

This is just one example of dozens:

I work with kids in the schools and would be horrified to see a male teacher touching a teenager like that.

Let's be real, compared to Trump who enters teenager beauty pageant dressing rooms to see the girls naked is a million times worse and if Biden ends up against Trump I think it would be a wash but I do think this is an issue and not one we should sweep under the rug. Men can't touch kids like this ever!

[BannonsLiver]

1. So, you're not really that big of a fan of Biden are you?

[Quixote1818]

4. I actually am and don't try to tell me I am not. nt

[BannonsLiver]

5. All evidence to the contrary.

[Quixote1818]

9. Just speaking my conscience.

I am actually disappointed Biden has been so careless here because he probably would be my top choice.

[BannonsLiver]

11. Rigghhhht

I guess unintentional comedy is another strength.

[Quixote1818]

14. So you would touch a young girl like that and think it's just fine? nt

[BannonsLiver]

18. I'm not a very physically warm person so it would never come up.

You might have better luck asking someone who is, and who is objective about Biden (you are not, despite your prounouncements).

[fleabiscuit]

27. I really like Joe. Joe is kind. Joe is generationally clueless. Old dog new tricks. Nope.

[BannonsLiver]

32. Cool. I'm trying to figure out why I should care.

Dime a dozen.

[LanternWaste]

45. Odd how we often spend so much time responding to things we allege to be careless of.

"All evidence to the contrary" indeed...

[BannonsLiver]

47. It's not really that odd.

[Fla Dem]

43. So if someone is a big fan of a candidate, we're just suppoded to ignore their behavior?

Kind of like Trump saying "I could 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters'". We would expect his "fans" to be outraged.

[BannonsLiver]

49. No

You’re supposed to criticize them. no need to misrepresent yourself as a “big fan to do that.

[Squinch]

20. I'm finding DUs response to this appalling.

Some people I respect sound like rabid republicans out for blood. The hypocrisy is stunning to me.

Somehow they were all able to see that Bush massaging Merkels shoulders was creepy. Somehow they were all appalled when trump said he didn't even ask, he just grabbed women.

But you are the devil for suggesting Joe shouldn't do those things either.

I'm disgusted.

[Kentonio]

25. Same

I don’t care which candidate is involved, this kind of thing is not ok and the whitewashing of it just makes us fucking hypocrites. Had a really bad taste in my mouth since this started.

[fleabiscuit]

28. +1

[Cha]

30. Angela Merkel let bush know instanteously

that she didn't like it.. not wait 5 years for a political hit..

Earlier this month the US president, George Bush, was captured giving Germany's leader Angela Merkel a quick back rub at the G8 summit in St Petersburg. Ms Merkel flings her arms up and grimaces as the world's most powerful man gropes her shoulders. American internet users have clicked on the five-second video clip of their encounter more than half a million times.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/2006/jul/28/bushrubsmerke

[Squinch]

34. And I guess Flores's lack of quick response, to a man who

was in a position of greater authority, means its ok that Joe grabbed her without her permission. I guess Joes hands were Flores's responsibility.

Smh.

[Cha]

36. She waited 5 years to

take him down when it was politically expedient. I don't trust her. No one at the event can verify.. and they've researched.

Event organizer: Biden, accuser were never alone together

“I have thoroughly reviewed photographic documentation from the event, and spoken to nearly every principle in attendance, as well as staff associated with the event. To the best of our recollection, at no time were Lucy Flores and Vice President Biden alone,” Henry Munoz, co-founder of Latino Victory Project, said in a statement.

“Lucy is my good friend and a good friend to Latino Victory, which has strongly supported her political career. I also firmly believe that women need to be supported and heard and that there is a reckoning in our culture that is long overdue. Vice President Biden is also my close friend, to the degree that he presided over my own marriage. These are both individuals that I love and respect,” he said.

“Yet at no time were these two leaders alone together and I, and the organization I cofounded and those in attendance, do not believe that circumstances support allegations that such an event took place,” he added.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=44281

Link to tweet

Vice President Joe Biden takes a selfie with Nevada Lt. Governor Democratic candidate Lucy Flores during a rally in support of Nevada Democrats at the Plumbers and Pipefitters Joint UA Local 525 in Las Vegas Saturday, Nov. 1, 2014. (AP Photo/Las Vegas Sun, L.E. Baskow) (Photo: L.E. Baskow, AP)

And, there is evidence of her trying to smear Hillary in 2017.. so I'm going with Vice President Biden's statements.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Squinch]

38. So: a) don't believe women b) the woman's response is

what matters, not the man's action.

And you know as well as no do that this is nothing new for Joe.

That's all I will say, because this is making me too sad. I'm out.

[Cha]

46. It is sad.. I don't believe Flores'

account to be true.

It's ridiculous to just "believe women" because they're women. Flores is doing a disservice to the #Metoo Movement.

She wants him to not run.. well, too bad.. it's not up to her.

[Locrian]

37. same

The contortions people are going through to blow it off it because "it's Joe being Joe!" - I just don't get it.

[Hortensis]

42. I didn't find Bush "creepy" then, rather socially maladroit.

Just watched again, and the same. It obviously wasn't a place for shoulder rubs. We don't know if he thought they were friends enough for him to do a little "relax" thing, or whether it was actually body language meant to convey a message make her seem at a disadvantage, or both. Regardless, she saw him walking up behind her, allowed him a very quick rub or two, and put an end to it.

I think we should take a look at this extremely negative word being used by people on both sides of all these male-female issues -- "creepy" -- and question the appropriateness and motives behind applying it so freely. Here in the south hugging's endemic, and I only like it from men I feel really do like me, but the others aren't "creepy" just because I'd prefer a courteous, unhypocrtical nod or because a person didn't realize a handshake was appropriate for the first couple of meetings at least and hugs come later between members of the tribe. Also grooming each other for ticks.

Agree with you about the emotional overreaction all these subjects touching on relations between the sexes are generating among some, though. Extremism and absolutism are intrinsically dysfunctional, and we know society's heading into extremism range when people start turning mean. And then it's time to turn back.

[George II]

7. I always like these "I'm a fan of xxxxx, but....."

[BannonsLiver]

10. Yes

The aroma of manure is in the air.

[Quixote1818]

13. Here is proof I supported Biden in the past

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210943632

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210943632#post4

Took me two seconds to find that.

[BannonsLiver]

19. And it proves literally nothing.

[Quixote1818]

21. And here is a post from just yesterday of me coming to Biden's defense on this

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211975606

[BannonsLiver]

22. But now less than 24 hours later you've had a change of heart?

Should I tune in tomorrow to see where the wheel lands?

[fleabiscuit]

29. Are you like Biden? nt

[BannonsLiver]

31. Like what exactly?

Tell you what, Joe Biden was good enough for Barack Obama for 8 years. I have made no selection, but that very ringing fucking endorsement from the most important Dem politician in a nearly century will factor in my decision making. Why don’t you worry about Harris. If voters don’t like Biden they won’t vote for him. Common Sense 101.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. Great point. Can't imagine Obama wanting

Anyone around him who didn't have good character and it was obvious he and Michelle have a lot of affection for Joe.

[LanternWaste]

44. Nuance and the lack of ablative absolutes can be difficult for many minds to comprehend.

It seems we're both inferring that which may not be the case... difference being, I won't rationalize mine as anything other than petulance. You however, are.

[BannonsLiver]

48. There is a lot of nuance in the OP

I agree with that. The OP starts with the pretext they are a “big fan” of Biden which is not true. They then go on to smear him with concern. Nuance indeed. I feel privileged that you have responded to not but one but two of my posts in this thread.

[UniteFightBack]

2. Please stop peddling right wing talking points. Thanks. nt

[msongs]

3. that is not ariana grande's waist... nt

[still_one]

6. Really? You are a "big fan of Joe Biden"? I'll tell you what, if this is an issue for someone,

then don't f**king vote for him, vote for someone else

[BannonsLiver]

8. A real "big fan".

Who just so happens to view that as a role where one disseminates far right wing talking points and Putinite smears on a leading Dem candidate. With “big fans” like that....

[still_one]

23. There is a lot of innuendo and misrepresentation going on about Biden, and it is not right

[customerserviceguy]

12. Can we, as my Christian friends say

Love the sinner and hate the sin? Can we acknowledge that approaching someone from behind and getting touchy-feely, or affectionate, if you prefer, is something that needs to go away? Can we do so while not being seen as shunning Joe Biden personally?

[Demsrule86]

17. No . We can't.

[Demsrule86]

15. You are not a fan of Biden or you wouldn't post this.

But when we lose remember Biden would have won the blue wall states but just like with Hillary some were fooled by doctored video and rightwing memes. I hope this blows over and we are able to beat Trump.

[RDANGELO]

16. Thank you for speaking your conscience, and

welcome to the world of non critical thinkers.

[BlueFlorida]

24. Fan of Biden?

[watoos]

26. So a fan of Biden

posts a picture of someone else feeling a girls boob and then claims that Biden does the same thing.

Got it.

[shanny]

33. You are spot on,

[WeekiWater]

35. Well said.

This isn’t an issue on whether I would support him or not. I understand his intentions. But I don’t gloss over the impropriety and I do understand this is going to continue to be used against him.

With Trump being President and Sanders polling as high as he is I don’t see how Biden wouldn’t enter the race because of this. It’s on him if this becomes a reason he doesn’t enter.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

40. Could you explain your last paragraph? Get the

Connection between trump (accused of rape) and Biden (accused of Eskimo nose rubbing) but how does Sander's poll numbers factor in?

[WeekiWater]

41. Sanders wrote a rape fantasy in his thirties.

Has publicly brushed his wife aside on more than one occasion. His last campaign manager fully admitted that the last campaign was run in a way that bred harassment toward women. For that Sanders pulled a stunt where he blessed them with an hour of his time.