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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 07:51 AM

 

Iowa App is no big deal. Paper Trail can fix anything.

Hi, this is my very first post on DU.
The app failure used in the Iowa Dem Caucuses is much ado about absolutely nothing.
The app failed and the obsession with that one point proves that many Americans are simply ignorant on how the actual election processes work
. The app, or any in the future, will not matter because the app does not cast votes. It's only purpose was a way to report more data.
It's the paper trail that is the sole evidence of results from that one primary. The other 49 states will have caucuses and primaries and in each, the paper trail is the only thing that matters.
Media is freaking out, probably to get a catchy headline. The right wing, of course is claiming the end of life itself over this one glitch. But they will always go to the worst guess first. The GOP likes to guess, instead of think. Media has yet to explain how the paper trail will not change the results.
Everything in politics comes down to the vote. Paper trails, paper ballots will always prove one thing. What the voters chose. Ink on paper cannot be hacked from Russia, so get over this nonsense about this app even being a problem with elections. It's a problem for the media and those, like the GOP who think it should be more important than what was actually put on paper by those participating in the caucuses.
Iowa tried something to provide more data. It didn't work well, but it DID NOT change what the paper trail proves. That fact is; how many actual, tangible, real votes were cast for actual, tangible, real candidates. Iowa will still have to cast votes, again later this year. And nothing that happened in Iowa, will affect any other states primary efforts.
I can only suggest that every voter do more to participate. Register to vote. Have your ballot sent to your home for every election. Vote at Home. Those states with mail balloting have better participation, especially at the local levels.
I have yet to see any media, promote the actual methods on how to vote, in each state.
Voting is the single thing that brings change, and if the American system continues to flourish, we should change to weekend voting and make a national holiday of it. Require only paper ballots and hand-count every single one. No politician takes office the next morning and we can wait for results a day or two, instead of demanding our elections give us instant results. This is not a 30 sec drive thru burger order and it should never be treated like that; by the media, by the parties and especially by ourselves.
The most important thing is not who's running, or who did what... but making sure every voter casts a ballot in every election. It's the only way to prove what we want as citizens for our nation.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Iowa App is no big deal. Paper Trail can fix anything. (Original post)
SmartVoter22 Feb 2020 OP
Sherman A1 Feb 2020 #1
SmartVoter22 Feb 2020 #6
Blues Heron Feb 2020 #2
SmartVoter22 Feb 2020 #7
Blues Heron Feb 2020 #15
SmartVoter22 Feb 2020 #16
jmg257 Feb 2020 #3
33taw Feb 2020 #4
SmartVoter22 Feb 2020 #8
33taw Feb 2020 #10
SmartVoter22 Feb 2020 #12
33taw Feb 2020 #13
PDittie Feb 2020 #5
JoeDuck Feb 2020 #9
SmartVoter22 Feb 2020 #11
MineralMan Feb 2020 #14

Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 07:54 AM

1. I disagree

 

The use of an under tested App made the who process look stupid and called into question every move made before and after.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 08:31 AM

6. The actual paper ballots were changed how?

 

There is nothing about the entire process here.
It did not change any actual result. Iowa has a paper trail that counts.

They only tried to get more data to the public.
Did radio work when it started? Nope. TV, nope?
The automatic transmission in cars? Nope.


Why do you think this changes everything? And more so, why do you think everything will work perfectly on it's first attempt?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 07:58 AM

2. It looks bad

 

Politics is all about perception and media - you can't give them any ammo. It looks bad to me that they were even considering a move to smartphones at all. Thank god there's a paper trail. The gizmo failed - whoulda thunk it? PS welcome to the DU!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 08:33 AM

7. So no app can be fixed with an update?

 

The idea that it must work 100% perfectly is a bit naive.
I assume your computer or phone has no need for updates.....they always work.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 10:28 AM

15. Apps are great until you actually need them

 

Mine rarely work as intended. All the years of driving car2go and all the updates, that app still needed to be rebooted nearly every usage.

Not impressed by fiddly little smartphones and the rickety, unstable apps that run on them. No matter what update you have, your ALWAYS behind.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 7, 2020, 09:13 AM

16. You nailed it. Apps are always under development.

 

Apps are under constant development and improvement.
We consumers only get something that is pretty much ready to work for the most part, kinda.

My choice of apps are utilitarian. No games or social media.
My iPhone 7+ (256GB) is a very good camera. and overall, portable phones were a good idea.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 07:59 AM

3. "The app failure used in the Iowa Dem Caucuses is much ado about absolutely nothing."

 

Good one!

Just when everyone is watching, a huge fail.

Sure - eventually maybe the votes will be counted, the % will be adjusted and readjusted, a lot of the irregularities in tallying and procedures will be explained away. But it is not and was not "nothing".
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 08:25 AM

4. Are you a software engineer?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to 33taw (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 08:34 AM

8. How would that change anything?

 

I can say I did not write the app, fund the app or use the app.
Have you written your's car's software? You still drive it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 08:57 AM

10. Take a deep breadth. It wasn't an attack. As a matter of fact, I agree with you for the most part.

 

I thought you might have some insight about development of Apps. Personally, as an IT professional, I would not rely on an app of this import developed in a short timeframe with as little testing as was reported.

Also, I always request paper ballots. I have seen data not get persisted to a database, bugs wipe out data, and failure to scale cause havoc to name some examples. The risk of reliance on technology is too high and I want a paper trail.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to 33taw (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 09:20 AM

12. I agree 33

 

My point was the app was designed to provide more data. The app's failure seemed to outweigh the extra data which would have helped understand how, and maybe why, caucus goers made the choices they did.
It seems the media stopped asking questions about the data and who to blame about the app.

You are on target that bugs have serious risks. Technology should have an opportunity to provide more information to the primary and election processes, but it certainly should not replace paper ballots.
The Iowa Dems should have had more pre-testing before rolling it out.

They should ask for a refund?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 09:29 AM

13. If they were trying to analyze data with the app, they needed more time in development

 

and testing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 08:28 AM

5. Welcome to DU!

 

I find more than a few flaws in much of your logic, but in the spirit of welcome won't rebut or contradict those in your first post.

The "hand-counted paper ballots" part is exactly right.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 08:47 AM

9. Back in the good old days.

 

When I started voting back in the late '50s, we had nothing but paper ballots. Back then the concern was about stuffing the ballot box. It took most of the night to count the ballots in my very small west Kentucky county (total population just a little more than 8,000). On at least one occasion when it took longer than expected to count the ballots, armed citizens milled around the courthouse, made because they thought someone was trying to steal the election to one of the offices.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JoeDuck (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 09:00 AM

11. I agree people are impatient sometimes.

 

The speed of reporting results seem to outweigh what the actual voting results are, when media is given a priority for who can report first.
Back then, in certain parts of the country, stuffing was a problem. Recounts could easily prove to the most suspicious that the paper trail works.
A simple fix is to set a standardized reporting time...like noon the following day.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2020, 09:50 AM

14. It IS a Big Deal.

 

Why? Because it makes the Democratic Party look stupid. It doesn't matter in terms of the primary race, because Iowa doesn't matter, but it gives a very poor impression of the Democratic Party. That is why it's a big deal.

An app that sends a few numbers to a central location to be reported is not a difficult thing to get right. It's just not. That the app failed utterly to send that data is a VERY BIG DEAL, in the minds of people who use apps every day on their cell phones.

Worse, it appears that it was never even tested in a real simulation of the conditions that would be in place after the caucuses. Caucus chairs or whoever was responsible for sending data were not trained. So, everything failed.

To say that is not a big deal is just silly.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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