What happened to Elizabeth?

[kentuck]

Is it a little early to be asking that question?

I thought she hurt her chances when she came out for Medicare for All. But, Bernie is for Medicare for All and he is near the front of the pack?

I have vacillated back and forth with 'Undecided" but I am in her corner once again.

It has puzzled me for some time why Democrats feel the urge to support controversial issues when there is no one demanding them to do it and there is no over-whelming popularity making it necessary?

After all, it doesn't matter if someone is a "Socialist" or any other label, they cannot get their agenda passed without the support of the House and Senate. It is meaningless. Until you have the cards in your hand, do not be throwing money into the pot.

As for Medicare for All, many believe it has merit and will do much to help the working people of this country, as well as those that may lose their good-paying union jobs, or those that might have life-threatening medical conditions.

Those candidates that support the idea have to be able to sell it or they are going to have to wait until they have the cards in their hands before they put their money on the table. Meaning: Don't bet the farm on an issue until you have won the White House and have the numbers in the House and Senate to pass it.

In my opinion, Elizabeth needs a new way to message the Medicare for All issue if she wishes to challenge those ahead of her at this time.

I still believe she is the smartest and most knowledgeable candidate in the race.

[lapucelle]

1. THe media erased her by ignoring her showing in Iowa. N/T

[JaneQPublic]

4. "Three tickets out of Iowa"

That's the old saying, but this year, the candidate in third place was ignored.

I wonder why.

[Baitball Blogger]

13. Yup. The media decided that the voters only wanted ONE progressive and

that they picked Bernie.

Such bullshit.

[MH1]

27. Yes, and they misunderstand "progressive", IMO

there is only one real progressive in the remaining candidates, and it isn't Bernie.

A progressive works to get done what they can - progress. I don't see any history of Bernie understanding that.

[Lonestarblue]

51. Or does the media want Sanders because they think Trump will defeat him?

I’m not saying that Trump would win, but WaPo and the NYT both went after Warren’s policies while ignoring virtually identical policies from Bernie, and they were quick to anoint Bernie the leader after Iowa and NH even though Mayor Pete has one more delegate. Trump as president has greatly enhanced the media’s profits. They may be trying to ensure he wins again so they can keep the profits rolling.

I’m a Warren supporter, but two issues are against her:
—she’s a woman and Democrats are gun shy after Hillary lost, plus misogyny is a factor
—she made a mistake (in my opinion) saying that private insurance would go away—too big a change before people know what Medicare for All entails.

I think Warren could make mincemeat of Trump on a debate stage, as would Buttigieg and Bloomberg; not as sure about Klobuchar and Sanders. But debates are not everything, and there is a strong possibility that Trump will simply refuse to debate any Democratic nominee.

Warren has a lot of strengths, and I’m surprised that she has fallen in the polls. I think she would make the best president, but she has to get elected first.

[KPN]

48. I think corporate media cannot stomach the thought

thought of reshaping capitalism, and 2 of the top 3 are labeled “socialists” by adversarial stakeholders support and campaign on that. Can’t ignore the one who won the popular vote.

[rainy]

12. This is what happenedShe came in third and

got no boost and recognition from the press Notice how much press Amy got when she got third in New Hampshire. Plus the media claimed her debate performance was so superior to the rest and talked about it endlessly. Never forget that the media got Trump elected. They actually covered an empty podium and I never saw them waiting and airing a Hillary speech! She only got negative coverage.

[tritsofme]

47. ::eye roll emoji::

[lapucelle]

50. ...

[TwilightZone]

2. Health care was the #1 issue out of the midterms.

I think she believes in M4A and thought it would be a winning issue. I'm not sure it's any more complicated than that.

I do think hitching her wagon to Sanders on M4A initially was a tactical mistake. As you noted, it seemingly hasn't hurt Sanders, but I think differentiating herself from Sanders right away might have been more effective. Just a guess, though.

That being said, I'm also surprised she's not doing better. I think the conventional wisdom that she and Sanders share and are splitting the same constituency is a bit overblown, but with the two of them in the race, I don't get why anyone would pick him over her. They have similar plans, but hers are more detailed (and, frankly, more realistic). She hasn't alienated Democrats by attacking them in various forms for decades. She's infinitely more positive and at least as energetic and motivational (concepts I often hear from Sanders supporters when explaining why they support him).

Seems like a no-brainer if they were the only two options.

[northoftheborder]

3. I agree with this sentence:

After all, it doesn't matter if someone is a "Socialist" or any other label, they cannot get their agenda passed without the support of the House and Senate. It is meaningless. Until you have the cards in your hand, do not be throwing money into the pot.

[HeartlandProgressive]

5. She is in Nevada now and in 3rd place in the polls there.

She will surprise the media and do well there.

She could even finish 2nd.

[DeeDeeNY]

6. No rational explanation for this

But human nature is strange --
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/people-dont-vote-for-want-they-want-they-vote-for-who-they-are/2018/08/30/fb5b7e44-abd7-11e8-8a0c-70b618c98d3c_story.html

[Beartracks]

52. Thx for link. Very important to know. n/t

[luvtheGWN]

54. Have either Warren or Sanders actually explained,

in dollars and cents terms, just what Medicare for All really means for the average person? If the election really hangs on "pocketbook" issues, then a whole lot of explaining needs to be done.

1. How many people rely on their employer's health insurance, and how good is it, actually? Are they content to stay in a job they might hate just because of it?

2. Do people understand that the extra tax they will pay will be less than their employer deducts from their paycheque annually? and far less than co-pays and the real possibility of going over your limit and falling into bankruptcy?

3. Do they understand that they will be able to choose any doctor they want, with none being "out of network"?

I would hope that any MFA plan means firm limits on the amount docs/hospitals/pharma can charge. This is truly where US healthcare costs are double what other developed countries with MFA cost.

From the many articles I've read about this issue, I'm convinced that far too many Americans hate MFA for 2 reasons: the first being that they've been well and truly indoctrinated into the "socialism is bad" meme; and the second is that they hate the thought of paying for someone else's medical bills ("I've got mine, now you go get yours&quot . They don't understand insurance, obviously, because when they pay their house/property/car insurance, they're also paying for someone else's house that burned down, or someone else's care totalled in an accident.

Just some thoughts from your northern neighbour

[alarimer]

71. I thought they had, but I could be wrong.

Yours is a very cogent explanation. I do think there is something in human psychology that fears loss of something (even a terrible plan that may not help them much) over some future possible gain.

I also think that there are a lot of people, especially in Congress, whose careers depend on keeping megabucks donors happy, including insurance companies, so advocating for anything else is death at the polls.

[UniteFightBack]

7. It should be Warren and Biden at the top fighting it out. Clear lack of judgement. nt

[Codeine]

19. 100% agreed. nt

[Mike 03]

60. This is more less what I thought would happen too.

And I expected Joe to maintain the lead throughout, with Elizabeth Warren a close second.

[Zoonart]

8. She is the oldest woman in the race.

You can be an old man an be revered, but the worst thing you can be is an old woman.
Grandpa is wizened, but Grandma is a crone.

[Lulu KC]

9. Yes--this

"It has puzzled me for some time why Democrats feel the urge to support controversial issues when there is no one demanding them to do it and there is no over-whelming popularity making it necessary?

After all, it doesn't matter if someone is a "Socialist" or any other label, they cannot get their agenda passed without the support of the House and Senate. It is meaningless. Until you have the cards in your hand, do not be throwing money into the pot."

[BeckyDem]

10. Warren is the best choice imo and I will wait until Super Tuesday.

I have my own thoughts as to why she is where she is right now, but do not believe it is over for her just yet.

[CincyDem]

11. Bernie's M4A is a hand waving vision. Her M4A is 100 pages of how it would work...

...so of course, as is often the case, the woman with the plan is marginalized vs. the man with a neat idea.

With that in mind, I think her "turn" began about 5 weeks ago IIRC when there was a question, a single question, for which she didn't have an answer. Seems like all of a sudden, the media message was - Warren's plan isn't so solid. Guess it's because she only answered 99 out of 100 questions. Then we had the sham-trial and that "she doesn't have all the answers" idea festered. Then "three tickets outta Iowa" was reframed as "three guys outta Iowa" and we were treated to a media glow-fest about Bernie, Pete, and Joe. And now she's cutting staff.

I'm undecided because I'm in Ohio. By the time the train gets here, I'm not going to get the same choices as folks in Iowa. I'll make my decisions from the menu available at the time and, while I may be disappointed that I don't get to vote for folks like Harris, Booker, (likely Warren)...I'll make my best choice know that come november, it's blue no matter who.

Re: your point about new messaging - I don't think that's going to work because it's just not her. She doesn't do the "concept without content" thing. It's just not her (IMHO). But she is the smartest most knowledgable candidate in the race for sure.

[Codeine]

17. "Concept without content"

That’s a very succinct appraisal. I’ll be stealing that.

[CincyDem]

30. Use it in good health often. :-)

[DeeDeeNY]

22. Your summary is exactly right

And I feel the same way about what choices will be left when I finally get to vote, which for me won't be until the end of April.

[Laelth]

14. AOC endorsed and campaigned for Sanders.

That crowded out Warren in the left lane and sapped her of support that went to Sanders, instead. Had AOC endorsed Warren, the numbers would be different, I think.



-Laelth

[BlueMTexpat]

44. I think that you have

a very good point there.

Sadly.

But she's still MY preferred candidate and I'm with her as long as she's in it!

[Laelth]

46. I don't blame you for that one bit. Kudos.

-Laelth

[krissey]

64. I think it was when AOC walked in that really weakened Warren's campaign also.

You had the M4A situation but I think that was temporary. It was a bad move. But she got off the absolute on that and I think would have been ok. But I saw her really going down when AOC stood behind Sanders.

[Laelth]

65. That, I think, is when Warren's numbers started to drop.

At the same time, Sanders' numbers started to rise.



-Laelth

[krissey]

68. Yes. And it was right after his heart attack, when his number should have been nothing.

But instead they went up. I agree.

[Codeine]

15. The MFA contingent was already hitched

to Sanders, so she caught all the downside of taking that position without any commensurate gain.

She’s the smartest candidate on the stage, but she’s chasing an audience that seems to be already committed.

[Saviolo]

16. She peaked early

She got a lot of buzz just a bit too early, and now the narrative has moved past. The concocted horse race between Biden and Sanders is getting more column inches. Buttigieg's sudden rise in the first couple of primaries and Bloomberg's sudden cashalanche are bigger stories than "Liz Warren keeps doing what she's doing, and doing it well!"

I don't think she's down and out yet, though.

[philly_bob]

18. Stick in there, Senator. /nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

20. If she can stay funded through March, she may be 1 of 3 remaining candidates

Along with Sanders and Bloomberg.

[marlakay]

21. Part of it is Bernie has a very loyal following

That has stayed with him since 2016. She got a few of his (me) and some from Clinton but with so many choices Bernie has lost some of his from then but not all.

[TDale313]

35. I think this is a lot of it.

The more progressive wing stuck with Bernie. Also, unfortunately, I think a lot of people believe after 2016 that going with a woman against Trump is too risky. I don’t agree, but I think she may have suffered from “America’s just not ready” which is infuriating, but I think is part of what’s happening.

[marlakay]

37. Warren reminds me of a organized mom

Smart and motivated. Bernie reminds me of a spirited fun uncle the one you can’t wait to stay with because he invents cool stuff and you go interesting places.

[Wiseman32218]

62. This is true and the media loves to

keep up the narrative that Bernie got screwed by Hillary in 2016.

The media just loves to chase a non-story.

[BusyBeingBest]

23. I'm surprised that Elizabeth, who famously has a plan for that, didn't

devise a good, solid roll-out for her health care plan. That was a glaring hole in her campaign, and she is paying for it. Is it totally fair, compared to Bernie's fairly loose Medicare for All proposal? No, but there is no fairness in Presidential campaigns.

[BusyBeingBest]

24. Also, she's not good at attacking her fellow Democrats. She is a decent soul

and doesn't have it in her to wage sharp attacks.

[blm]

79. Unless you're corrupt - then she morphs into an assassin.

[BusyBeingBest]

81. Oh yeah, absolutely. She does save her ire for the right people.

[judeling]

25. It is a subtle thing, but she lost the fighter vibe.

In that I'd say the "Wine Cave" back and forth hurt her every bit as much as anything else. It just felt a bit off for her and she suffered in the comparison to Bernie and Amy.

[samnsara]

26. its too early to make ANY predictions

[BlueMTexpat]

45. This. eom

[Hoyt]

28. Don't believe she's a knowledgeable candidate. Don't like her "Economic Patriotism;" her going from

MFA will cost $3.5 T a year (essentially what we are spending now) to $5.2 a year in November wasn't astute; her promises/plans that cannot possibly be funded; bashing million/billionaires when she will need lots of them to tax to fund all her plans/promises unless she's willing to tax middle-class, which she denies; her criticism and gross misrepresentation of Obama's trade agreements -- and Clinton by association -- right up to the 2016 elections helped elect trump; etc.

Honestly, I don't see much difference in Warren and Sanders.

Assuming it needs to be said -- I will vote for either if they get nomination, but I'll have to get another prescription for Xanax because I know we'll lose in November, trump -- or whatever GOPer runs if he drops out -- will get two or three more Supreme Court nominations, and worse, the House will be at risk, and any thought of taking Senate will go down the tubes.

[SWBTATTReg]

49. Ditto. I didn't know about her misrepresenting the trade agreements, especially after a lot of...

efforts were sunk in by the Obama admin. to get these agreements in place.

[aikoaiko]

29. The Warren-Sanders "She Said, He Said" thing didn't work out well for her either

[BusyBeingBest]

33. There was nothing in that for her. She has some incompetent advisors.

[cilla4progress]

31. My nephew who is campaignbg for Bernie

Doesn't think she stirs passions enough..as Bernie, Obama do. Not a candidate people fall in love with.

[katmondoo]

38. My problem is I can't seem to fall in love with Bernie

[cilla4progress]

42. I get it.

We have... good luck with your choice. Nail bitter!

[kentuck]

32. I think the issue has hurt Bernie, also.

In my opinion, he would be in much better shape if he had not adopted the M4A idea. Mayor Pete and Amy have made progress coming out against the plan. Mayor Pete says he is for "Medicare for All that want it". That is a big distinction.

I think Bernie would be running about 5-10 points higher if not for his position on M4A. I think it may have cost him the union vote in NV?

[LAS14]

34. I'm guessing there are a lot of Warren supporters like myself (older, educated, white, female) who..

... have not been historically all the way left to "revolution," but who thought, maybe this year the wave will come, and I'd love to have Elizabeth ride its crest. In other words, I'd be out-of-my-mind happy with her "structural change," but I'm not into causing revolutions. Just joining them. It began to look like this wasn't the year, and people of my ilk began to be reconciled to her not winning. Note that I still sport the Warren indicator. I haven't totally, totally given up on a wave appearing. But it's mostly wishful thinking at this point.

[krissey]

67. Older, educate and women are her supporters. HRC supporters. That is why I do not like seeing

Sanders and Warren constantly seen as block voters. Many Warren supporters has Sanders last on our list.

[Faux pas]

36. The media is choosing

our candidates again! I first noticed this back in the days of Kucinich. If the press doesn't want you, they disappear you. It makes me sick and disgusted.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

40. I liked Kucinich

It pissed me off too.
I voted for him.even tho he didn't win.pissed me off how he was called a keebler elf and the bullshit label / claim he was unelectable.

Every candidate in the race is electable dammit. Until they drop out of the race.

[Faux pas]

58. I voted for him too.

I'm sure we'd be in a whole different place if he had of won. No path for the hump to even be in the picture, let alone ruining the whole effing world. I don't pay attention to the polls or the media, I sleep better that way lol.

[treestar]

70. And we let it happen by talking about what they want

to talk about, rather than thinking for ourselves.

[Faux pas]

72. Critical thinking skills were

killed off with the dumbing down of our country. The rotten rethugs worked hard to make it this way. We need to take off the gloves and fight dirtier than they do. We're smarter, we should be better at it.

[eleny]

39. She's been my choice since she announced

[bucolic_frolic]

41. Voters respond to sound bites, not substance

She has some of the smartest ideas, but ideas require time and sound wonkish. All of our candidates should have studied what made Obama's campaigns go. He was quick with ideas and responses, and had energy. Professorial doesn't play to most voters.

[kentuck]

43. I think AOC may have given both her and Bernie an opt-out on their position...?

Workers are not ready to surrender their employee insurance, however fragile it may be. They may have to accept that reality. A public option may be the best option available. Most people would like to have the option of Medicare or a public option, if they lost their jobs.

[McKim]

53. She Needs to Be on the Ticket

She should be on the Democratic Party ticket. She would be a great Vice President. I am wondering if a voice coach would have helped her with a slightly more masculine image. Unfortunately it has all boiled down to image in this advertising soaked country. She has everything to make a great president! She should be at least in the cabinet!!!! Her economic knowledge is priceless.

[dlk]

55. With her plan to address corruption, the powers that be have decided to erase her

Fear of actual accountability is a powerful thing.

[tiredtoo]

56. I think she said something along the lines of:

Yes we are going to take peoples current health insurance away from them and put them on Medicare for all. And then she began dropping in the polls.

[eissa]

57. She's been my candidate since Nov. 2016

She has a strong record of liberal accomplishments, is a strong leader and fighter, is sharp and articulate, and would make an absolutely amazing President. It is just mind-boggling they she isn’t running away with this nomination, yet some small town mayor is getting all the adulation.

Her fight with Bernie was stupid and ill-advised. She needs new staff ASAP. A David Axelrod type who can get her in front of the cameras and highlight her many strengths.

[cp]

59. Media icing her because 99% of them are wealthy corporatists

Warren is the candidate most likely to begin re-balancing income inequality, and Wall Street and their media megaphones know it. Media pundits make enormous salaries and live in urban professional bubbles.

I will be voting for Warren in Wisconsin's primary April 7.

(Am urban transplant in rural WI and can understand both cultures and languages.)

[kentuck]

63. You may be on to something there.

Wall Street and the wealthy are most afraid of Elizabeth Warren, even moreso than Bernie Sanders.

[dflprincess]

76. Exactly. Nt

[Sympthsical]

61. She undermined her own strengths, then got negative in an unappealing way

Let me preface that Warren is my number two after Buttigieg at the moment.

Warren’s strength is that she actually crunches numbers to see if solutions are feasible and workable. She hinged a lot of her candidacy on it. When M4A came up, a large component of the storm around it was that her numbers were supposedly wrong, that it would cost far more. She took a lot of damage there. Her credibility rests on the credibility of these plans she’s always touting. Undermine the plan and you undermine her. Unfortunately, too many Democrats took part in that one.

I think the stake in her campaign was raised when she tried to go negative. When she came out with “wine caves” she was roundly mocked all around the media and the internet. It was cringey clumsy. It was ill-done. When she got into that shitshow with Sanders, I think that was the end. Progressives don’t think for a minute Sanders is sexist. He encouraged her to run in 2016, for crying out loud.

It rang false, seemed desperate, and it looked like the kind of lashing out you see in a campaign that fears it is failing.

I still like her. I will still vote for her if Pete falters. But I really question her political instincts. On pure politics, she always seems to have the gun aimed at her shoes, pondering what kind of hole she could make.

[Vivienne235729]

66. I think she and Biden got hurt bc they were in the lead and there's too much

Knocking each other down. We really need to stop carrying water for the Republican party.

[treestar]

69. There's still time

people are getting too distracted by the media with its usual dismissing of anyone who didn't win Iowa and NH. Trying to predict the end when the voting has just begun. For some reason the media is making Bloomberg a thing when he is polling no better than Warren and Biden, who are supposedly "faltering" - but that's to maintain the horse race. It's amazing how much the media controls us. They bring up these things and we repeat their crap without thinking about it.

[lostnfound]

73. Erased by media, plus I wonder if Blumberg's massive ad buys and influence campaign

Has had an effect?

He doesn’t have to attack her, but he definitely worried about her getting the nomination, and his massive ad buys may be making it more expensive or harder for people like Warren to get airtime, whether purchased or not.

[Scotch-Irish]

74. I totally agree, Kentuck!

I'm hoping she'll get a second wind here real soon.

[MoonlitKnight]

75. For those afraid of Bernie

They should be supporting Warren. She is a great candidate and could keep the Bernie voters in the fold for the general.

If it’s Biden or Klobuchar we lose again because the Bernie voters will stay home or vote for others.

If it’s Bloomberg, then god help us.

[AngelicaHora]

77. I think it's quite easy to see where she went wrong

Her first error was to say "I'm with Bernie on Medicare For All", while she was running on a platform to have a plan for everything. Bernie is a populist who does not have a plan for anything. The appeal of his message is how simple it sounds. But the real world is far more complicated.

A series of errors followed. Her insistence that middle class taxes would not go up opened her up to a rare but memorable Buttigieg attack line, where he accused her of not having a health care plan and leaving a "multi-trillion dollar hole" unexplained. She was forced into releasing a detailed M4A plan, which proved what most reasonable people already knew; before we go any further, the only logical next step is a public option. What's more, even in her detailed plan the revenue was nowhere near enough to cover the expected cost. The episode hurt her entire platform. If she couldn't get this plan right, then what about all the others?

Next she hurt herself by attacking her opponents in a disingenuous way. Her attack on Pete's wine cave quickly backfired when her hypocrisy was exposed; it hurt both of their candidacies and ultimately only Sanders benefited from it. Her attack on Sanders about something he might have said a few years ago was another pointless exercise. And she still hasn't learned. Just yesterday she attacked Biden for his high dollar fundraisers. These attacks aren't clicking with anyone other than the far left purists who are already firmly in the Sanders camp.

Lastly, the overall message of her campaign has been shifting way too much. "I have a plan for that" was great. Becoming the "anti-corruption" candidate was also a viable alternative that she has pursued. But now she's also trying to be the "unity" candidate. She's even leaning on identity politics. The coherence is gone.

Warren is a brilliant person and Senator and I was a strong supporter early on. But it's clear she doesn't really have good political instincts, and this campaign hasn't been good to her. I look forward to when it's behind her and she goes back to being the Warren we've known for years. There were already hints of it in her semi-concession speech after New Hampshire, which was great.

[Frasier Balzov]

78. She tried to bring disrepute upon Sanders

Last edited Sat Feb 15, 2020, 06:16 PM - Edit history (1)

by announcing what he told her he thought of a woman's chances to be elected President.

Even if he did say it, she shouldn't have aired it publicly and tried to use it against him.

And then she confronted him rather publicly after the debate and refused to shake his hand when he extended it. "Did you just call me a liar?" Or words to that effect. Ugh. Painful.

It all seemed too cynically calculated and indignantly righteous on Senator Warren's part, and I think it backfired on her.

[blm]

80. Sanders camp started that episode when they planted a

Bogus story to explain the canvassing script that implied Warren was an alitist who couldn’t win. They let the planted story agitate his supporters who attacked her viciously. Two days later his camp admitted the script did come from the campaign.

Revising history doesn’t work here.