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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:06 AM

 

Why is Bernie so popular?

He seems to be much more popular with Democrats in general than Democrats here on DU? Why is that?

Why do so many young people support him?

It's easy to simply ignore these questions but it might be useful to look a little more closely?

If Bernie is elected President, that does not mean that America becomes a full-fledged "Socialist" country tomorrow. There are guardrails called the US Congress. Until they are convinced of the benefits of Bernie's "socialist" ideas, we will remain mostly where we are today, in my opinion.

When we find ourselves in the minority, we might want to look a little closer at ourselves?

Just my opinion.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Why is Bernie so popular? (Original post)
kentuck Feb 2020 OP
InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #1
OneGrassRoot Feb 2020 #3
InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #12
Historic NY Feb 2020 #129
kentuck Feb 2020 #130
ehrnst Feb 2020 #70
TomCADem Feb 2020 #2
ahoysrcsm Feb 2020 #165
disndat Feb 2020 #4
womanofthehills Feb 2020 #115
DanTex Feb 2020 #5
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #15
InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #16
ehrnst Feb 2020 #39
KayF Feb 2020 #148
mysteryowl Feb 2020 #195
DanTex Feb 2020 #196
mysteryowl Feb 2020 #198
at140 Feb 2020 #6
InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #107
Beringia Feb 2020 #7
kentuck Feb 2020 #13
katmondoo Feb 2020 #155
Zolorp Feb 2020 #8
Bettie Feb 2020 #90
mountain grammy Feb 2020 #146
Laelth Feb 2020 #159
John Fante Feb 2020 #184
Garrett78 Feb 2020 #190
womanofthehills Feb 2020 #116
at140 Feb 2020 #121
at140 Feb 2020 #119
Tweedy Feb 2020 #151
ahoysrcsm Feb 2020 #166
at140 Feb 2020 #168
ahoysrcsm Feb 2020 #171
at140 Feb 2020 #172
ahoysrcsm Feb 2020 #174
at140 Feb 2020 #179
ahoysrcsm Feb 2020 #181
bucolic_frolic Feb 2020 #9
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ahoysrcsm Feb 2020 #167
at140 Feb 2020 #194
Rorey Feb 2020 #11
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handmade34 Feb 2020 #54
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:08 AM

1. Excellent post! All you have to do is listen to what Bernie is sayin... he speaks truth to power

 

and promotes economic and racial equality to light the way forward in a way that motivates working class and low-income voters to join Bernie's political revolution in droves. It's time we ALL climb aboard the Bernie Bandwagon... it's fillin' fast, but there's always room for one more!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:11 AM

3. Can you be more specific though?

 

Is it really the nitty gritty of what he is saying or is it more the rebellion-against-the-establishment vibe in general that makes him so appealing?

(It's appealing to me - both his and Liz's message - but I do wonder what younger people are drawn to.)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:15 AM

12. Definitely both, but more of the former and less of the latter.

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:21 PM

129. Its like being stuck in a time warp...........

 

he has done nothing to ever advance any of what he spouts. JusT look at his home state. Look at what he has done not what he keeps saying he's going to do. He'll do nothing w/o support and that he does not have, where it counts in the Senate or the Congress.


[link:https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357/report-card/2018|]

[link:https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357/report-card/2019|]

Making noise doesn't count!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #129)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:24 PM

130. Which means:

 

The label of "Socialist" is only a label. The only way he can get anything done is as a Democrat.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:02 PM

70. Just don't ask him about his medical records....

 

or any of these examples of "speaking truth to power..."

Sanders: I'm 'prepared to work with' Trump

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders said Wednesday he is willing to collaborate with President-elect Donald Trump going forward but warned he would "strongly oppose" the Republican should he continue to pursue his most extreme policy proposals.

Acknowledging Trump's success in taping into economic resentment in his astounding electoral win Wednesday morning, Sanders cast Trump's candidacy in a light similar to his own failed presidential run during the Democratic primaries.

“Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media," the senator said in a statement released Wednesday.


Trump And Sanders Try To Show New Hampshire They Can Reach Across The Aisle
In a presidential election season that’s seen plenty of partisan fights, Republican Donald Trump and Democrat Bernie Sanders were among the candidates in Manchester, New Hampshire, Monday who were promising to reach across the political aisle if elected.

As WBUR's Fred Bever reported both men were out to demonstrate that they are practitioners of the art of compromise.



http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/14/sanders-reaches-across-aisle-at-liberty-university.html




Sanders: I'm 'prepared to work with' Trump

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders said Wednesday he is willing to collaborate with President-elect Donald Trump going forward but warned he would "strongly oppose" the Republican should he continue to pursue his most extreme policy proposals.

Acknowledging Trump's success in taping into economic resentment in his astounding electoral win Wednesday morning, Sanders cast Trump's candidacy in a light similar to his own failed presidential run during the Democratic primaries.

“Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media," the senator said in a statement released Wednesday.








If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:10 AM

2. Why is Trump So Popular Among Republicans?

 

Hr is insulting, throws would be Republican allies under the bus without a thought, whines that he is a victim of media bias, attacks the so-called establishment and deep state even though he is now leading it. He also is repeatedly shown to be a hypocrite about draining the swamp, yet Trump's voters buy his BS and ignore all evidence to the contrary.

Yet, he has stranglehold on Republican voters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:27 AM

165. Trump is a cult leader...

 

Have you ever tried holding a simple conversation with a cult member? Always, ALWAYS, ends up talking about their cult. Can't go one day at work without hearing about Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:11 AM

4. No one has question

 

how Sanders is going to pay for his programs as they did E. Warren.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to disndat (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:18 PM

115. Maybe stop giving so much money to the military industrial complex

 

and here's something novel - tax the rich.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:12 AM

5. He's popular because his policies are popular, and people trust his consistency.

 

The young people thing I think has a lot of roots. First, young people tend to be more idealistic. Also, this particular generation of young people came of age during a time when the "miracle of capitalism" hasn't been all that miraculous. And they missed the cold war, so the whole "communism" thing seems dumb to them. And they're right about that, what Bernie proposes is commonplace in Western Europe and other parts of the world.

You're right that electing Bernie wouldn't turn America into a full-fledged socialist country. In fact, even if Bernie were able to enact every single thing on his platform, we still wouldn't be a "full-fledged socialist" country. We'd just become a "normal" country by international standards with decent labor protections, social benefits, and universal healthcare.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:15 AM

15. All this and he is showing that lefties can fight as hard as anyone

 


He's not backing down whether up or down in the polls.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:16 AM

16. THIS!! WELL SAID!!

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:56 AM

39. Yes, about that consistency....

 

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:05 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/02/18/bernie-sanders-wont-release-full-medical-records/4801735002/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DanTex (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:41 PM

148. well said

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DanTex (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:29 AM

195. Well said. A question remains, why is he so UN-popular on DU?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mysteryowl (Reply #195)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:35 AM

196. I would guess that DU demographics lean older than the electorate as a whole.

 

I signed up back around 2001, after Bush stole the election. I was young, Bush v Gore was my first election. Now I'm less young, funny how that happens...

But at the time, there was no social media, and DU was really a lifeline for people who wanted to vent about how horrible the political situation was.

I think with twitter, facebook, etc., younger people now have other outlets to discuss things online, and so DU is more of an older crowd. DU is most popular with the under-40s.

Just a guess, I have no demographics or data to back this.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #196)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:56 AM

198. Interesting, that could be.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:12 AM

6. Sander's popularity is exposing the troubles

 

middle class is enduring in this period. Add high cost of college & student loans,
family incomes stagnant while cost of housing & healthcare keeps escalating,
85% of tax cut dollars going to top 10% with middle class thrown a bone, and Bernie's
all out agenda against climate change, are some of the reasons for Bernie's poll numbers.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to at140 (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:13 PM

107. Simply put... Bernie has the backs of We The People. We've been lookin for our Champion

 

and it's BERNIE!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:12 AM

7. You don't delve too deeply with your question

 


Why don't you try giving an answer from the perspective of one of the many types of people who see something good in him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Beringia (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:15 AM

13. I will leave that to you.

 

I am supporting Elizabeth.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Beringia (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:17 PM

155. I am looking but cannot find it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:12 AM

8. Promising to give away free shit is popular?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Zolorp (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:35 PM

90. He's offering change

 

and boomers got a lot of advantages that later generations did not get.

College wasn't out of reach for them, climate change wasn't a pressing immediate issue, they could find good paying jobs even without a degree...then, Reagan ensured that all of that was beyond reach for most people, but by and large, the generations that came of age before him did fine.

I'd like to see public education expanded to include college/tech school.
I'd like to see people whose lives are crippled by student debt be able to move forward in their lives.
I'd like to see people not have to go bankrupt because they or a family member became ill.
I'd like not to ever have to see another go fund me for someone's kid to get chemo.
I'd like to see people working for the future of our planet, not kicking the climate change can down the road for the next person to deal with.

You call it "free shit"...I call it wanting a better life for everyone.

We're the richest nation on earth. We can do this and we should do this.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Bettie (Reply #90)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:10 PM

146. Well said!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Bettie (Reply #90)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:03 PM

159. +1 n/t

 



-Laelth
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bettie (Reply #90)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 02:31 AM

184. Superb post.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bettie (Reply #90)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 06:15 AM

190. Yep. A lot of folks recognize that we're running out of time to make the necessary changes.

 

The US is, as Howard Zinn said, "topsy-turvy." We need major fundamental change, and soon.

Young people especially are starving for leadership that will push for more than just status quo policy. And good negotiators know that you need to aim high, that you shouldn't ever start where you hope to end up.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Zolorp (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:22 PM

116. So healthcare for all and a living wage is now free shit

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #116)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:37 PM

121. Exactly,,,,,I got mine, heck with you!

 

Get sick and go bankrupt!
Thank goodness for Medicare, otherwise we would be in bankruptcy court already.
Her treatment is running up bills at $30,000/month!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Zolorp (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:34 PM

119. Raising minimum wage is NOT giving away anything

 

those folks work hard for their meager paychecks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to at140 (Reply #119)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:02 PM

151. Rational investments

 

Educating the next generation is common sense

Loading them up with debt, losing beautiful minds in the process, is dumb.

Who would set up a system like the one we have got, complete with for profit colleges that advertise more than they educate?

This government is of, by and for us, not the kleptocrat who manufactures some loop hole.

"Free stuff" is what the for profit trump universities of this world get when their "students"/ aka suckers sign loan documents in return for absolute zero & a lifetime of crushing debt.... brought to you all by the American taxpayer

Ever notice how so often the politician shouting "free stuff" has his hand in the tax payer cookie jar? Moscow Mitch sure has built a lot of Mitch McConnell dog walking parks -- "free stuff!"



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to at140 (Reply #119)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:33 AM

166. Senator Sander talked about raising min wage in 2007 to $15 an hour.

 

at the time it was $7.25, 12 years later and its still... $7.25.

We could have had $8 or $9 but oh no, we had to go for the magical $15. 12 fucking years...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ahoysrcsm (Reply #166)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:36 AM

168. I would raise minimum wage to $17.50/hour

 

Don't we want ALL Americans to live a decent life? Or should the top 10% keep getting richer while the rest are struggling?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to at140 (Reply #168)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:47 AM

171. Why not $25?

 

It takes about that much to rent an apartment, health insurance, pay off student loans, put a % into a 401K, a little into savings, car payment, car insurance, etc.

Did you want to buy a house? Start a family?

Lets not forget about the Servers or Hospitality workers.

12 years its stagnated.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ahoysrcsm (Reply #171)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:50 AM

172. A journey of 1000 miles begins with small steps..

 

Aim for what is achievable and practical before trying to reach for the moon.
$17.50 can be absorbed by the current economy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to at140 (Reply #172)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:57 AM

174. We are in agreement with the small steps...

 

I just don't see how a 140% increase is a small step. In 2007 Sanders was calling for a 100% increase to $15 and it went nowhere.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ahoysrcsm (Reply #174)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:08 AM

179. $15 is already in place in many locations! Going to $17.50 is a small step right?

 

It was over-due when Sanders called for it in 2007. But administrations current and past did not get it done.
Sanders and Warren will get it done. You can bet on it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to at140 (Reply #179)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:19 AM

181. $15 min wage in many locations, Great! All over america... unfortunately no.

 

In 2020, a total of twenty-four states across the country will increase their minimum wage requirements for workers. Beginning on January 1, 2020, twenty states increased wages with Connecticut, Delaware, Nevada and Oregon set to increase their requirements later in the year.


$7.25 is the Federal Minimum Wage, the only one that counts when speaking of Federal office holders. States and local municipalaties have the right to be higher and I applaud them for that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:13 AM

9. It's generational demographic redistribution

 

Young people are not financially established relative to older people. They have debt, and love things that are free. Socialism promises free things. 60 year olds with a mortgage and home equity are not eager to have their financial bubble tapped by the government. Young blue collareds don't embrace socialism as much as their college grad peers.

Everyone wants a better deal explains both sides.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:13 AM

10. Here's what my daughter and son in law said:

 

Cause I can't understand it either.

They are the same age as Pete--or one year younger at 37. They think it is the anger. Young people are fed up with government, not unlike the Trump cult. They want a guy who can tear it all apart and start over. Not unlike the Trump cult!

I said that Sanders plans were too unrealistic. They said that you always ask for more and settle for some halfway measures. They said that Obama did the same over the ACA.

They are college educated, advanced degrees. They personally like Elizabeth Warren the best.
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Response to ginnyinWI (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:23 PM

52. "Not unlike the trump cult"

 

"ask for more and settle for some halfway measures" all good in a normal time, but right now it's "ask for more and settle for *another 4 years of republican rule*"

good for your kids! Elizabeth Warren is excellent choice
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Response to handmade34 (Reply #52)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:35 AM

167. 12 years the min wage has stagnated.

 

12 years Sanders has fought for $15 an hour. Coincidence...
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Response to ginnyinWI (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:23 AM

194. Elizabeth Warren is a rare opportunity for this country in 2020

 

It is the only chance to change the system, instead of just tweaking it.

When millions go bankrupt every year due to healthcare bills,
and when just ONE PERSON has accumulated more wealth than bottom 150 million Americans,
there is something seriously asunder in current system for many years starting with Reagan in 1980.
Direly need a revolution, not moderate changes to current system rigged for rich to get richer and
middle class marching in place and poor staying poor permanently.
Only Warren has the skills, energy and endurance to make a significant change.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:13 AM

11. Would Sanders be an effective President?

 

It's a serious question. Without support of Congress, I just wonder what he thinks he can actually get done.
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Response to Rorey (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:10 PM

105. He'll have support from at least half of congress

 

The progressive caucus inside the House of Representatives is the largest group and democrats have a shot at flipping the Senate.
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:15 AM

14. I suspect the average DUer is older than the average Sanders supporter. That affects everything.

 

Also, DU seems to be more concerned with stopping 45 whereas Sanders’ supporters are more concerned with fixing the problems they face in the world - poor wages and job prospects, income inequality, sky high housing and education costs, abominable health care if it exists at all, a world that is being destroyed, etc. For the real world Sanders’ supporters, none of the other Dems except for possibly Warren is talking about these issues. It is assumed that a Dem presidency will reset the foreign policy stumbles and restore stature and respect to the White House so those issues are of little importance.
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:16 AM

17. Bernie will energize more republicans to turn out to vote against him...

 

If he wins the nomination. We should all know by now, how republicans will react. We can’t win a General election, coming from the very far left.
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Response to dubyadiprecession (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:20 AM

22. As I've said in a previous thread

 

I fear much of Sanders' success in the primaries is from Republicans crossing over. Trump has in fact encouraged his supporters to do such.
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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:35 AM

30. Scumbag GOPer Hugh Hewitt said he's voting for Bernie in the VA primary.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/hugh-hewitt-gets-stomped-after-pledging-chaos-vote-for-bernie-sanders-hes-as-partisan-as-they-come/

It's a longstanding Republican tactic Limbaugh calls Operation Chaos.
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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #30)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:39 PM

97. It's a classic tactic.

 

I crossed over in the 2012 Senate primary in Missouri to vote for the worst candidate: Todd Akin. A number of us did, hoping it was enough to give him the nomination. His nomination offered McCaskill the best chance in November. His comments about rape and pregnancy two days later were icing on the cake.

I've heard local Republicans already bragging about voting for Sanders via absentee ballot. The ones I've spoken with at other functions have stated they don't want Biden or Warren winning the nomination but feel confident about Sanders. (The other day one mentioned that he was afraid Bloomberg would get the nomination.)
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Response to dubyadiprecession (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:38 AM

47. Agree.

 

I think Republicans are very busy screwing around with our primaries. I'm very concerned about how a Sanders headed ticket will affect the House and any chance we have for a Senate majority. I don't think Sanders cares about this. The candidates he supported in 2018 mostly lost.
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Response to dubyadiprecession (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:24 PM

117. but more independents will vote for him

 

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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:17 AM

18. "Why do so many young people support him?"

 

Free college tuition.

That and legal weed nationwide.
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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:19 AM

20. so, selfishness??

 

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Response to PubliusEnigma (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:22 AM

23. Not any more than other voters. (nt)

 

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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #18)


Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:11 PM

106. Weed is becoming legal pretty much everywhere without Bernie.

 

Free college tuition and student debt relief are important. I think he was pushed hard on social media by Russians. Some of the supporters just hung on. If you look at his overall numbers, they have dropped since 2016. It is just harder to see because there are so many candidates in the primaries splitting the rest of the support.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:19 AM

19. Why is Bernie not a Democrat?? Why not commit to the Party instead of using it for your own purposes

 

That's what Trump did. And you see what's left of the Party formerly known as the GOP.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:19 AM

21. Because he makes extravagant promises to people

 

who don't understand how our government works and who therefore think presidents are able to create generous social programs by presidential fiat without the involvement of Congress.
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:25 AM

25. THIS!!!!

 

Terrific
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:37 PM

57. could not have said that any better myself Velevteen! Kudos...

 

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:17 PM

78. +100000

 

Exactly

I will also add because he appeals to the tribalistjv nature of many on the left.

Tribalism, especially toxic political tribalism is not what this country needs on either side of the aisle.
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:51 PM

111. Yes...extravagant promises that are not exposed on primary level

 

Everything changes if Sanders becomes the nominee. There will not have been a greater variance between how someone is viewed in June compared to October. Redefined doesn't begin to describe it.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:54 PM

112. A lot of them DO understand how government works

 

but they are tired of "well, it will never pass, so we won't even try...here's a quarter measure that won't really change anything! Enjoy!".

If this had been the attitude in other times we wouldn't have Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid...or any social safety net at all.

Generally negotiating works best if you don't start by saying "this is the very least I can accept"...because you'll end up with less than you started with.

My kids and their friends believe in swinging for the fences, even if you don't get it all, you can move the needle.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:54 PM

125. +1

 

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:02 PM

126. Exactly. If I thought he could fulfill half is promises, I'd be for him too. Same for Warren.

 

In future, we can add Sanders -- or Warren -- to McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis.
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:19 PM

139. Yes.

 

They forget that Republicans exist. I've seen it over and over with Nader and even Kucinich.
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Response to Sparkly (Reply #139)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:13 PM

153. Yep. And some Democrats are in areas that are VERY moderate almost red.

 

You can't go far left in these areas without their constituents raising hell. They wouldn't get reelected. They have to move gradually.
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:22 AM

163. Most people don't think being able to see a doctor

 

When they’re sick is extravagant, just basic human dignity...Should we not fight for a better life, for a more humane and generous America?

Maybe we should just give up any hope for a fair redistribution of wealth or reparations for that matter. Let the raw greed continue to consume our planet because people just don’t understand how government works. Such naive children wanting a future.
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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #163)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:41 AM

170. It's extravagant in the sense that he's making people believe that he can deliver it,

 

while the reality is that it will take years of incremental steps because it will be such a huge, complex change from the current situation. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen or that it's not a worthwhile goal, but Bernie seems to have made an awful lot of people think that if he's elected it will happen, immediately and magically. He doesn't seem to address the inconvenient fact that both houses of Congress would have to pass legislation vastly more extensive and controversial than the ACA (and include raising taxes a lot, which is never popular), and it was like pulling teeth just to get that. What I'm saying is that no politician should be writing checks his ass can't cash.
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #170)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:39 AM

197. Back in the 60"s when Democrats

 

were trying to pass Medicare, Ronald Reagan made an anti Medicare commercial telling us if Medicare passed it’d be the end of freedom in America. Democrats got it done. Same with Medicaid.
Now you’re saying it’s nearly impossible. We’re going backwards without the courage of our convictions. Guess I don’t understand how government works, but I’ve actually seen it work when the commitment and courage are present. Oh well. Guess it’s just too hard these days. Right?
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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #197)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:57 AM

199. That's not the point. The point is that he's promising voters

 

that if he's elected he will give them whatever his version of medicare for all is (plus free college), and that's a promise he can't keep - because doing that is not within the powers of a president. If he was promising that he would support those goals and that he would do everything he could to promote such legislation and get Congress to pass it, fine. If he was also talking about electing representatives and senators who would be in favor of those goals and would offer bills in the House and vote for them in the Senate so he could sign them into law, great. But that's not what he's doing. He's telling voters that he's going to do it, but he doesn't tell them the truth, which is that he can't do it without Congress. And as things stand right now, Congress isn't gonna do it.
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #199)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:48 PM

200. So, what I hear you saying is

 

a candidate shouldn’t campaign on changing America for the better and lifting all Americans with good ideas and policies because they can’t do it anyway.. 🙄

Gotta give people something to hope for. But why hope when we don’t even know how government works? I think you’re being a bit condescending with that kind of thinking. Pretty sure most people who are following the campaigns know that Bernie isn’t promising anything, he’s just telling it like it is. We need universal health care. We’ve needed it for decades. If you don’t believe that, maybe you don’t understand America..

I understand our government isn’t working as it should, but is working for a radical right wing Christian agenda that will turn out very badly for all of us. Obviously, American government doesn’t need a majority to function..it just needs a bully with a radical religious following.
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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #200)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:54 PM

202. A candidate shouldn't campaign on promising something he can't deliver.

 

It's dishonest to say, "Elect me and you'll get free health care and free college." An honest politician would say, "Elect me and I'll work with Congress to get legislation passed that will put us on the road to free health care and free college (or whatever)." What will happen if Bernie is elected (instead of going down in flames like McGovern did in '72, which is the more likely result) and he can't get a damn thing done because he gets stonewalled in Congress?
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #202)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:12 PM

204. Never once heard any of our candidates

 

Say elect me and you’ll ge free healthcare and college. Maybe you could post an actual quote of any Democratic candidate saying that.
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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 02:56 AM

185. Gee, his voters must be real idiots.

 

[sarcasm]
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:24 AM

24. I know of no one who likes him-including me.

 

Media hype? He has only won one contest.
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Response to wisteria (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:51 AM

173. It was a tie with Sanders receiving 9 delegates and Buttigieg receiving 9 delegates in NH.

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:27 AM

26. He has about 30% support. Is that your measure of popularity?

 

What about the 70% who don't support him? Do they not count?
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Response to still_one (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:07 PM

71. The others have 75-85 percent who don't support them

 

So why pick somebody whose even less desired. 30 percent is the top percentage this year and it’s bernie. I guess next maybe Biden with 19 percent which means 81 percent say no thank you.
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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #71)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:23 PM

79. Because that isn't how it works and you realize it. There are too many candidates running with

 

similar views, Amy, Pete, Biden and Sanders and Warren

Sanders isn’t the most popular candidate, and rules he agreed to and was for previously, he now is against

I anticipate an ugly convention, and another 4 years of trump

I hope I am wrong, and yes I will gladly vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is





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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:28 AM

27. Duh. Free College which will never happen

 

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:46 PM

84. I wish colleges would step up and use their huge endowments

 

And knock 10 grand off every student. These colleges are flush with a ton of money yet they are charging incredibly high tuition and board. That’d sure be a nice start.
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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:14 PM

205. How much do you think they will charge when the recipient pays nothing?

 

People think it means they will get to go to any college they want anywhere regardless of cost and someone else will pay for it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to MichMan (Reply #205)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:39 PM

206. I would imagine they'll apply like today.

 

If anything it will make acceptance to a university even harder since more will be applying
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:30 AM

28. tell that to the undecided trumpers we are trying to win over..that message is too scary for them

 

..if we dont get some of those folks on our side all this is for nothing. Youth..and voter/political virgins sometimes bring a lack of knowledge about how we got here in the first place and some dont mind walking on the edge of democracy to get what was promised them.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:30 AM

29. I have a hunch that his supporters tend to be low information

 

They are taken in be his vision but they don’t understand how governments works. Yhey don’t get that 90% of his promises and ideas could never be implemented. There is this little thing called Congress that has to actually enact laws. Many of his ideas like free college would never pass. They seem to beli3ve his promises without understanding that they are pipe dreams. They are unsophisticated and so easily duped.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:39 AM

31. you had best sit down for the money quote ......

 

"What makes Bernie Sanders so threatening to the Democratic establishment is that he stands for what millions of Democrats thought their party stood for all along." seth ackerman
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Response to rampartc (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:50 AM

35. Bullshit.

 

What makes Sanders so threatening is that his bullshit lies about the Democratic Party not standing for the same sort of values he has results in depressing Democratic turnout and getting Republicans and their terrible values elected.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:43 AM

32. I believe Churchill answered this question back when:

 

“If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain.”

He doesnt use the words "socialist" and "conservative" here in a political sense we are used to. He more likely meant something like "idealist" and "pragmatist", but in either case it explains Bernie's popularity with the young people.

My take is that young people don't have as much benefit of a hindsight to have experienced the multitude of nuances associated with the sentiment they espouse to. What sounds profound in theory, doesn't usually reflect in historical precedent. Realizing this only comes with the experience of living through it.

To your point of things not changing much if Bernie becomes President, that would make Bernie a piss poor leader. He is running on a platform of radical change in government. What scares me about Bernie is how he plans to accomplish it: he repeatedly stated that his intention is to build a "movement, and govern by mandate on behalf of the "people" (however he happens to define "people" at any given moment, in circumvention of the legislative branch whenever the legislators don't agree with his agenda. Scary indeed, if you come to think of it.
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Response to beastie boy (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:27 PM

56. Churchill never said that

 

according to churchill.org
https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/
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Response to tishaLA (Reply #56)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:40 PM

60. You are right. It had been attributed to a whole bunch of people

 

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/24/heart-head/

But, however wrongly, it is being attributed most often to Churchill in the rumor mill of social media.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:46 AM

33. I have my suspicions.

 

He needs to be vetted.
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Response to Evergreen Emerald (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:34 AM

45. So you think Hillary did a poor job of vetting Sanders? I don't

 

Here is the worst stuff they found on Sanders:
- honeymoon in Soviet Union
- weird piece he wrote in college
- had a heart attack

The Clinton have done 4 presidential campaigns -- they know how to vet their opposition.
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Response to Apollo Zeus (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:16 PM

50. Not Hillary, the press. Hillary did not go as negative as she could have.

 

Bernie will be vetted by the Republicans.
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Response to Apollo Zeus (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:03 AM

175. A 2015-2016 heart attack? Damn, I thought it was just the 2019 heart attack.

 

Two heart attacks in less than 5 years? Nope, not gonna get my caucus vote.

Blue no matter who in the GE.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:48 AM

34. He's the only politician that gives young people hope.

 

They never hear the words "We won't do that" or "We can't do that" They hear him say "Together WE can do that." And he's right. They realize that they don't have the luxury of remaining where we are today and that matters to them.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:51 AM

36. I don't know any Dems that support him.

 

And imo-if he’s the nominee, we’re gonna get 4 more years of dump.
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Response to Alliepoo (Reply #36)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:26 PM

118. I live in NM, and most people I know support Bernie

 

depends who your friends are
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:52 AM

37. 2008

 

Progressivism is largely a response to the recession, the long-term effects thereof (particularly on young people), and the government's handling of it.

Failing to learn from this and address some of the issues that are turning people off to mainstream Democratic politicians is not to our benefit, despite what people around here will tell you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:21 PM

51. well said.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:55 AM

38. How often does a candidate do as well as Sanders did in 2016 not ever get a chance at a run on top

 

of the ticket? It seems like a strong previous run is a huge asset. The very last Dem to win the nomination had a strong second place finish...

And I agree, the whole socialist country idea is stupid. Honestly Bernie has a strong record of taking the best deal that Dems can get through congress and voting for it. He's both an idealist and pragmatist.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:19 AM

40. When you promise free stuff to a lot of people

 

you get popular.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #40)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:38 PM

58. When you focus on the importance of a living wage and affordable healthcare and the climate crisis

 

and point out the greed and outsized influence of corporations and big donors that has been largely directing our government policies, you get popular.

Speaking truth to power. Calling oligarchy by name. Refusing to accept the fleecing of our economy. Caring about what working class people care about. Popular.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #58)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:39 PM

59. Which all the candidates have done

 

at some point.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:44 PM

64. Qualitatively different. That's why he's popular.

 

The largest faction of his base is AA women under 45... are you suggesting they’re only thinking about “free stuff” instead of being concerned about larger principles? That’s pretty dismissive.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #64)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:28 PM

95. Don't put words in my mouth

 

That’s dishonest.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #95)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:40 PM

98. Your words: " When you promise free stuff to a lot of people you get popular."

 

In response to the question of why he is so popular.

Those are your words, and most of his base is highly diverse.

Casting superficial aspersions on his supporters is convenient but hurtful.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #98)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:44 PM

108. Maybe

 

But it’s also honest. Sometimes the truth hurts.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #108)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:47 PM

109. Maybe it's largely projection. Maybe these disenfranchised people actually value more than

 

“free stuff.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #109)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:12 PM

114. Maybe

 

But Sanders largest block of supporters are young white males, hardly a disenfranchised group.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to JudyM (Reply #122)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:25 PM

132. Correction

 

College educated white males. And your charts don't dispute that but nice try at diversion.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #132)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:55 PM

133. Research I've linked shows AA voters under 45 prefer Sanders, and that women under 45 comprise

 

the primary demographic of Sanders’ base. Do you have data that says otherwise? Please share it!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #133)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:00 PM

134. So women are Bernie Bros?

 

So young college educated white men and women are the primary demographic. Still not a disenfranchised group.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #134)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:07 PM

135. Reading comprehension:Sanders is top choice of AAs under 45, no parsing for education.

 

He is also the top choice of Latinos, at least in Nevada: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/483452-sanders-leads-among-latino-voters-poll

How much evidence will it take to dispel the false Bernie bros myth?
His base is not white men, and you haven’t offered a shred of evidence to support that. It’s baseless. Why would you hang on to it when offered evidence showing it’s false?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #135)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:08 PM

136. Doesn't make them his largest block of supporters

 

So please stop trying to confuse things.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #136)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:12 PM

137. I will post this again: women under 45 are his primary base, and many of them are AA. Here's proof.

 

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Response to JudyM (Reply #137)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:31 PM

141. Many of them?

 

Nice try.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #141)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:49 PM

144. If you'd actually open the links...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #144)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:53 PM

150. I did

 

and they confirmed most of Sanders supporters are white.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #150)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 06:10 AM

189. Excerpt:

 

Polling has continually proven that Sanders’ base is much more diverse than the figure of the Bernie Bro would suggest: An analysis of polling between November 2018 and March 2019 found both that Sanders was more popular among people of color than among white people, and that women supported Sanders just as much as men did, “if not more,” according to Vox.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #189)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 08:22 AM

191. Nice spin

 

In raw numbers it’s mostly white people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #191)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 04:26 PM

210. LOL. If that's what you mean, it's doubly true for every other candidate.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #210)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 05:19 PM

211. Doubly??

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to JudyM (Reply #133)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:27 PM

140. What I've seen says it's still Biden.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #40)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:47 PM

66. But it's not just free stuff. It's peace of mind and getting closer to a more perfect union.

 

It's short sighted to see his approach as merely providing free stuff. He wants to provide a full safety net from cradle to grave. That's the way society should be progressing, instead of the regressive society where our meager safety-net programs are under attack every day.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Politicub (Reply #66)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:27 PM

94. And so do the other candidates

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #40)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:10 PM

74. "free stuff"

 

or you know, stuff we pay for with taxes.

I never hear people denigrate the military industrial complex for getting free stuff.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to nobuddy (Reply #74)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:29 PM

96. Then you must be new here

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #96)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:22 AM

182. How about the roads we drive on. The schools we send our kids to.

 

The food we eat. It isn't magically safe to eat all on its own, you know, and they don't do that for free.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to nobuddy (Reply #74)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:38 AM

169. Welcome to DU,

 

did you sign up to support candidate Bloomberg? Ok by me, welcome.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:20 AM

41. He only appears to be more popular.

 

His support is substantially less than in 2016 at this point.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #41)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:24 AM

42. The number that show up at the polls is the final arbiter on popularity

 

After all, Nader was pulling in crowds of 15,000 or more....
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #42)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:03 PM

49. That was back when? Probably need to index those numbers to now. :)

 

But if it was Nader now not sure that he would draw large crowds like that.

And you are damn right about it being at the polls. Primary or General.

Too much is being misinterpreted from the polls.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:06 AM

176. Nader?

 

I don't remember Nader running in one of the top two parties. Correct me if I'm wrong.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ahoysrcsm (Reply #176)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 09:36 AM

192. No one said that he did. I just said he drew huge crowds and was considered popular, and

 

that didn't pan out at the polls.

Is that clearer?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:24 AM

43. Easy, he offers u free everything

 

free college, m4a, wipe out your debts, "blow up" the DNC*, the mean bad old capitalistic system**.....

*Only when not running for prez

**Even though he's a millionaire thanks to it
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #43)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:46 PM

102. I like he has 3 houses including a camp like most Vermonters.

 

I've stayed in several Vermont camps, none worth $575,000 though.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:32 AM

44. Whats not to like? He is advocating against the system. He explains it very well in cold numbers.

 

He is the idealist of what many Dems would like to strive for - a system built to support the working class and minorities, not the 1%.

One where our voice matters in the government just as much as Bloomberg's.

He is the latest "change" candidate - so that which made Obama and trump popular.

NOT saying all his ideals are doable in this country - he gets pissed because HE thinks they should be. So he asks "why not?"
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:36 AM

46. Because in 2016 bernie completely transformed the Democratic Party with issues

 

that were completely ignored. He singlehandedly brought important issues like income inequality, health care, 15 dollar an hour minimum wage and climate change to the Democratic Party for the first time in history. Bernie made the Democratic Party better.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:41 AM

48. Yeah, right. No Democrat ever cared about income inequality, health care, higher minimum wage, and

 

climate change before Sanders enlightened us.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #48)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:25 PM

53. +1000.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #48)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:10 PM

73. Maybe cared. But didn't speak up at all

 

We owe bernie so much as a party. He invigorated us for the good. It’s stunning what he has singlehandedly did for America and the Democratic Party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:25 PM

54. seriously

 

oh man, I've been around a long time and these issues are as old as me
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:41 PM

61. "Single handedly?" Um, no. Ted Kennedy was working on Single Payer back in 1971

 

Al Gore did more for awareness to climate change, getting a Nobel Peace Prize for it, than Bernie ever has both in office, and now that he's out of office.

Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy got CHIP into existence in 1997, actually delivering free healthcare in to more Americans than Bernie has ever been able to.

And Bernie was more than happy to support a $10 an hour minimum after Trump won the 2016 election...

A day after joining the Senate Democratic leadership, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders signaled Thursday he’s a willing ally if President-elect Donald Trump follows through on a number of promises to working Americans.

“He’s talked about the collapsing working class in America. He’s right,” Sanders said Thursday at a breakfast sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor.

In a roundabout way, Sanders praised the billionaire businessman and expected they could cooperate on campaign pledges to raise the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour, to force big pharmaceutical companies into lower prices for seniors and to preserve Social Security.


https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article115360103.html

it was Democratic Senator Patty Murray who introduced S.819 - Paycheck Fairness Act, not Independent Senator Sanders.

Bernie didn't make the Democratic party better, the Democratic Party generously allowed him to caucus with them, giving him a voice and a platform he would not have had otherwise, especially when our Party lent his POTUS campaigns the credibility of a major party. The Democratic Party made Bernie famous, even when Bernie was insulting the party as being no different than the GOP, and Bernie has monetized that fame to the point of becoming part of the 1% via book sales at Walmart and Amazon.



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #61)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:13 PM

75. Ok. Do you think al Gore was able to have people to seriously look at it

 

Or was it bernie in 2016 when he insisted that the Democratic Party added it to the platform. I don’t remember climate change mainstream before 2016. It was discussed but not like that attention bernie brought to it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #75)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:53 PM

91. That Pulitzer Prize was awarded to him for raising awareness of climate change.

 

Perhaps you don't remember the 1990's, but many of us do:

Among elected officials, Vice President Gore's environmental record is unparalleled. In June 1992, he chaired the U.S. Senate Delegation to the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. It was the world's largest gathering ever of heads of state to focus on the environment. He also is the author of the national best-seller EARTH IN THE BALANCE: Ecology and the Human Spirit, which outlines an international plan of action to confront the global environmental crisis.

Last year, President Clinton and Vice President Gore unveiled the Global Climate Change Action Plan, a public-private partnership to dramatically reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere while promoting economic development. Gore was instrumental in breaking the gridlock on the national wetlands policy and in forging an historic partnership between government and industry to develop a new generation of fuel-efficient vehicles. He recently unveiled the Global Learning and Observations to Benefit the Environment (GLOBE) program, an international project to coordinate the work of children, educators and scientists in monitoring the global environment.


https://clintonwhitehouse1.archives.gov/White_House/EOP/OVP/html/Enviro.html

And about the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize:

The Nobel Peace Prize for 2007 was awarded to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and former US Vice President Al Gore for their efforts to obtain and disseminate information about the climate challenge. In Gore's case, certainly, the award was grounded in his tireless campaign to put the climate crisis on the political agenda.

As early as in 1992, the year when he was elected Vice President of the United States, Gore was making himself known as a highly environment-conscious politician, among other things through his book Earth in the Balance: Forging a New Common Purpose, in which he took up the problem of global warming. Having lost the presidential election in 2000, he decided to use his influence to increase public awareness in the United States and other countries of the seriousness of the environmental situation. This goal he well-nigh achieved by means of his documentary film An Inconvenient Truth (2006).


https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/2007/gore/facts/

About an Inconvenient Truth:

The idea to document Gore's efforts came from producer Laurie David, who saw his presentation at a town hall meeting on global warming, which coincided with the opening of The Day After Tomorrow. Laurie David was so inspired by his slide show that she, with producer Lawrence Bender, met with Guggenheim to adapt the presentation into a film. Premiering at the 2006 Sundance Film Festival and opening in New York City and Los Angeles on May 24, 2006, the documentary was a critical and commercial success, winning two Academy Awards for Best Documentary Feature and Best Original Song.[4] The film grossed $24 million in the U.S. and $26 million at the international box office, becoming the eleventh highest grossing documentary film to date in the United States.[5]

Since the film's release, An Inconvenient Truth has been credited for raising international public awareness of global warming and reenergizing the environmental movement. The documentary has also been included in science curricula in schools around the world, which has spurred some controversy. A sequel to the film, titled An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power, was released on July 28, 2017.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Inconvenient_Truth

Also - from the 2008 Democratic Party Platform, which preceded the 2016 party platform, and Bernie's involvement by 8 years.

We will lead to defeat the epochal, man-made threat to the planet: climate change. Without dramatic changes, rising sea levels will flood coastal regions around the world. Warmer temperatures and declining rainfall will reduce crop yields, increasing conflict, famine, disease, and poverty. By 2050, famine could displace more than 250 million people worldwide. That means increased instability in some of the most volatile parts of the world.

..............................

We are committed to getting at least 25 percent of our electricity from renewable sources by 2025.



Does that answer your question? Any questions on those other Democratic issues that you thought Bernie originated?

He singlehandedly brought important issues like income inequality, health care, 15 dollar an hour minimum wage and climate change to the Democratic Party for the first time in history.


May I ask where you heard that Bernie originated these Democratic issues, and that they weren't really on the Democratic Parties' or anyone else's radar, in all of history, before Bernie came to Capitol Hill? Don't assume that because Bernie talking about something was the first time that you paid attention that it was the 'first time in history' that the Democratic Party bothered to notice.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:26 PM

55. We were all young and stupid idealists once too

 


The difference is that we didn't have the existential crisis of a Trump in the White House at the time.

We could afford to be for the pie-in-the-sky candidates, because even if they lost - the guy that won wasn't the literal worst person in the world.


And PS. People who are against Bernie Sanders' candidacy are *NOT* in the minority. They just are split between too many alternatives.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:43 PM

62. Real popularity is confirmed at the Polls. Nader was drawing crowds of 15,000

 

and appeared popular, but when it came down to the vote count, not so much.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:43 PM

63. Bernie resonates with youth because youth have keen BS detectors.

 

It's as simple as that.

Bernie doesn't try to couch his words, he's consistent, he doesn't dodge questions, he's direct.

That's pretty fucking refreshing compared to most political players and candidates.

I think he would nail Trump easily based on his ability to mobilize young people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Alex4Martinez (Reply #63)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:49 PM

67. Consistent? You mean like when he says he's going to release his comprehensive medical records

 

then doesn't?

or... Bernie Sanders in 1970s Senate race called millionaire senators 'immoral'

Mr. Sanders, who was running at the time as a member of the Liberty Union Party, a democratic socialist political party, told a local Vermont newspaper in December 1971 that it seemed “immoral” to him that millionaires represent the people of their states. They actually represent “the interests of corporations and big business their fellow millionaires,” Mr. Sanders told the Bennington Banner.

and then.. when he becomes a millionaire selling books at Walmart and Amazon...

"So again, I don't apologize for writing a book that was number three on the New York Times best seller, translated into five or six languages and that's that."

Sanders camp admits anti-Warren script was deployed in multiple early states

Sanders initially attributed the talking points to rogue staffers, and supporters launched an online campaign to convince people the document was fake.


That kind of "fucking refreshing" consistency?



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — As a congressman in the 1990s, Bernie Sanders expressed an openness to making “adjustments” to the tax and benefit structure of Social Security. He also praised an overhaul of the social safety net program signed into law by President Ronald Reagan that reduced benefits and increased taxes on working families.

Sanders’ presidential campaign and allies have highlighted similar remarks by Joe Biden to attack the former vice president and make the explosive charge that Biden was an outspoken proponent of slashing the program.


https://apnews.com/31c432f20acba807a569c7004abaf473


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=false&speaker=bernie-sanders

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:45 PM

65. My take is that he represents a complete departure from the system that is no longer working

 

for most people today.

I would love to live in a democracy like Denmark which is perhaps the pinnacle of social democratic policies. I don't think I'm alone in feeling that way. I would gladly pay the additional taxes for the peace of mind that a real safety net would provide.

Every day we read or hear the current administration talking about shredding what bits of a safety net that are remaining. Even Klobuchar has her "dignity of work" bit, which is no different from the work requirements for insurance that conservatives favor.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Politicub (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:52 PM

68. Denmark has nearly twice the billionaires per capita as the US...

 

https://slate.com/business/2013/11/swedens-billionaires-they-have-more-per-capita-than-the-united-states.html

I'm not a fan of Billionaires, but Sweden clearly shows that the presence of them doesn't seem to be the demise of democratic socialism. They are an easy scapegoat/dragon to slay, but it's clearly a fiction that progressive welfare states do not inherently threaten the existence of billionaires in their borders.

Why do you think that Bernie feels a need to push this erroneous correlation? Is he just uniformed about Sweden's economic system, and the lack of even an established Democratic Socialist government's effect the existence of Billionaires?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:24 PM

88. I have no problem with billionaires who don't use their money to make life harder for people.

 

It's not the money. It's what is done with one's riches that are important. Tax policies should be progressive, however, and tax income about a certain threshold more heavily.

And that's an interesting stat about Denmark. I think people will be more bold in their lives if they know that taking a risk won't mean medical bankruptcy, homelessness or ruin. I know that's the case for me.
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Response to Politicub (Reply #88)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:04 PM

93. But what do you make of Sanders' statements that Billionaires and not and will not exist in

 

a Democratic socialist government "like Sweden has?"

Do you think that he is just misinformed about how their economic system works?
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #93)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:08 PM

113. It was a strange comment. I don't know how Sweden's system

 

works (though I’m a huge Ingmar Bergman fan; their early film industry rocked), so I don’t know what Sanders was saying or meant.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:54 PM

69. I'm an older voter... it's priorities.

 

Bernie is focused on the right issues. That's why he's popular.

Bernie is not focused on the wrong issues, that's why he's way more electable than those that are think he is.

If you're not angry, you aren't paying attention.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:09 PM

72. He ran last time, people know him.

 

The runner-up often gets the nomination the next time.

See: Hillary R. Clinton, 2008/2016.
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:14 PM

76. popular?

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:16 PM

77. Dems lose the Senate with Bernie on the ballot

 

Bernie will be a lame duck on day one.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:24 PM

80. Personally I think he would get crushed in the GE,

 

Bernie to me is someone who over-promises and will under-deliver... absolutely sounds good, but then that damn reality gets in the way.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:25 PM

81. He is consistent.

 

He is running on his principles, which he has held for 40 years. Anti-war, reproductive freedom, human rights.
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Response to roody (Reply #81)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:31 PM

82. Who is it that said ...

 

Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds?

Full quote:

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”


― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:34 PM

83. It's an intangible, like Trump's supporters. Some, (obviously not all) of his supporters

 

are more "fans" of the persona than the ideology. To me, that's what's so scary about his candidacy. I feel that some of his support is to prove or protest something.

My opinion of course.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:55 PM

85. He isn't so popular but the people he ahs makes lots of noise. Trump is not so popular, but again,

 

the people he has makes lots of noise.
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:58 PM

86. I think he's selling a fantasy...

 

Most of what he wants would never get past congress. He has probably one of the most unrealistic platforms there is, IMO.

I don't get why more people aren't confronting him about this. Elizabeth Warren suffered a lot in the polls because of Medicare-for-all. Why hasn't he?
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Response to cynatnite (Reply #86)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:41 PM

99. Problem is

 

A lot of his supporters don’t know how majorities in the senate work. And obviously in order to sell the fantasy he’s not going to clue them in on super majorities etc.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:10 PM

87. Pandering works. Just my opinion, part II

 

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #87)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:00 PM

103. +1 nt

 

nt
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:00 PM

92. Free stuff is always popular

 

But that’s only part of it. Our populace is made up largely of unengaged low info morons. Simple solutions (which are often unrealistic solutions) to complex problems in a populist wrapping paper also has a great deal of appeal.
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Response to HarlanPepper (Reply #92)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:42 PM

100. So are vapid bumper-sticker caliber yokel witticisms like "Free stuff is always popular"

 

But you know me, I don't like to complain.
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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #100)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:44 PM

101. But they often work

 

Which is one reason why Trump is President and will have an easy time with Bernie.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:04 PM

104. People believe

 

in the tooth fairy,i guess
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:50 PM

110. Pandering along with grievance politics...

 

...fits in well with the mood of whites, especially young white males, of the Democratic party. There is this idea put forward that the reason why things are harder these days than in the past, is because Democrats somehow have special political power that they're not using. If you imagine this to be true, it's easy to blame Democrats for what Republicans do.

That's why.



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Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #110)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:01 PM

145. Sanders' support is quite high among Hispanic/Latino and black voters under 45.

 

Posts like this simply avoid acknowledging the diversity within Sanders' supporters.

Pandering, grievance politics - these are dismissive ways to talk about Sanders' supporters too. Why wouldn't a liberal voting bloc want politicians who share their values? Is it is a grievance to say that the economy and health care are tilted toward upper middle class and wealthy people, or is it the truth?

Democrats had a substantive majority in 2009 that it took a lot of work to get, and health care and the Reinvestment Act were significant achievements. But more of a full-court press to get more legislation was possible after that historic majority, and we weren't prepared to counter the backlash in 2010, with disastrous results. Sanders, like Dean in 2008, committed to grass-roots organizing and did so successfully, to the point where Sanders' fundraising is astounding without relying on big contributions.

Like him or not, Sanders has made substantive achievements that lead to his popularity with a core of voters. Can anyone else in the party learn from these successes and go on to win in the GE - that's the real question.
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Undecided

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Response to BlueWI (Reply #145)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:35 PM

147. The key is to speak to them the same, but without talking about raising taxes on everyone else

 

We need to let these voters know we will fight for them without promising them things we can't deliver and at the same time talking about raising taxes on everyone else who is also struggling to make ends meet on their own.
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Response to maximusveritas (Reply #147)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:20 PM

156. There are definitely overreaches in Sanders' rhetoric - I agree.

 

But there are underreaches in the rhetoric of other candidates.

The level of economic inequality got to a tremendously high level before broad structural solutions were advocated for, seriously and in a sustained fashion, by Democrats outside of the Sanderscrat/Warrencrat wing. Today's absurd level of inequality didn't develop overnight, and I still think there are big differences among Democratic candidates in how fundamentally income inequality is seen as a true crisis.
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Response to BlueWI (Reply #145)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:49 PM

149. I think the facts disagree with much of what you're saying here:

 

- Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority in 2009 for a grand total of less than two months, and even that depended on the votes of Democratic senators like Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Senator Lieberman of Connecticut. The public wasn't even in favor of the Democrats doing as much as they did.

- Sanders is noted for is relative lack of achievements given his timeframe in office. Almost no sponsored bills, and an overall amendment record that is distinctly mediocre (unless you add the meaningless qualifier to trim it down to only roll-call amendments).

- Grievance politics is much more than remarking that "rich people have it better" or that we have a serious income inequality problem in this country. It's pretending that other Democrats are somehow responsible for it, and that Sanders is the only one who has ever proposed a solution (or that solutions aren't solutions unless they promise things that are mathematically impossible). It's purity trolling independents with angry (and often ignorant) sanctimony, driven largely by externalizing blame. Trump is a grievance politician as well, just white-grievance. He's doing remarkably poorly despite propping up the economy with deficit spending.

Sanders, in short, appeals to a "Bern it all down" mentality. This is fun, especially for younger leftists, right up until you realize that you need the votes of many of the the people you've decided to "bern". Not the Trumpsters, but the independents you've lumped in with them. And then it gets not-fun real quick.
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Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #149)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:13 PM

154. A few quick points.

 

The Democratic majority was substantial, but not filibuster proof. All the more reason to have regarded that majority as a historic occurrence and be ready to create a higher volume of proposals. Republicans do this far better than Democrats - ask Scott Walker.

The question was why is Sanders popular, a different question than who would be most effective at building legislative coalitions. Making direct appeals for public support, however, helps create interest in structural change, and that's one of the things that Sanders gets right.

Grievance politics, purity, etc...these terms are simply reductive and represent the partisan views of Sanders among some Democrats. They're interpretations, not facts.

All of the polling data showing a more diverse coalition in support of Sanders is also being ignored in your post. Obviously, there are choices other than Sanders in the primary - I'm not even supporting him myself in the primaries. But the things he is successful at doing - creating a political brand that motivates a big core of voters, elevating the issue of income inequality, fundraising independently, taking younger voters seriously, appealing to disenfranchised people - are ignored too frequently. That is unfortunate, because we'd understand more about the electorate by studying why his particular approach to these issues has appealed to many in the Democratic base.
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:36 PM

120. Social media created a character that

 

doesn't really match reality. I know people who are super low informed when it comes to politics, but they live on social media and support Bernie.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 05:49 PM

123. Tens of millions recognize that fundamental changes are desperately needed.

 

We're in grave danger as a society and as a species. The animating force in the US today is opposition to the status quo or just a general sense that life here is really fucked up.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #124)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:25 PM

131. In 2015, DU polled WIDELY in favor of Sanders

 

He was probably getting 70-80% support here.

Call it an exodus. Call it a purge. Whatever.

But this place was left predominately with more
Conservative people.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:11 PM

127. I am on 3 Democratic town and county committees and, amazingly, the primaries aren't...

 

talked about all that much. We have a lot of important local races we're worried about, and our primary isn't for a while. Whenever Bernie's name does come up, however, it's usually accompanied by a groan.

There is a small clique of dedicated Bernistas at the fringes of the Party, and they regularly call for MFA and a few other things, but they are at the outer fringes. We don't know if they actually vote.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 06:14 PM

128. Another thought-- never forget that half the population is below average.

 

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #128)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:17 PM

161. He's not all that popular. More turned out in NH last week yet he got half as many votes.

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:19 PM

138. Beats me

 

His record of actual accomplishments is very thin.
He comes across as a one-trick pony, lacking in any depth, not especially bright.
But for some reason, a lot of people think that non-stop lecturing of others while pointing your finger at them is a sign of greatness.



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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:33 PM

142. I support Senator Sanders because...

 

...he proposes policies that I have wanted all my life-- support for the working class, health care reform, student debt relief, paycheck equity, broad civil rights protections, taxing the rich and profitable corporations, the Green New Deal, and so on. But what I especially like is his commitment to a truly alternative vision of American policy. Establishment dems during my lifetime have mostly run on promises to continue the status quo with little real change beyond their latest slogans and jingles. I have lamented that on DU for years-- democratic presidential candidates rarely distinguish themselves by proposing genuine, significant changes to American governance and life. Senator Sanders is not running on catchy slogans. He is proposing real changes that will improve all of our lives.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:47 PM

143. He looks like a tough old coot who will give Trump what's what.

 

Dems do not want Kumbya this year. They want fisticuffs.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:02 PM

152. His 25-30% doesn't make him "so popular."

 

He started off with a great deal of name recognition, but he's the first choice of fewer voters than he was in 2016. So he's just down to his most loyal base.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:20 PM

157. Because they fail to understand that liking a candidate and their ideas isn't enough.

 

A candidate and their ideas are only as good as they are electable.

I think all of us, or MOST of us, like Bernie Sanders. I know I do.

But, I also think MOST of us believe he is not electable.

FDR's ghost could sit atop our ticket and it would mean nothing if he couldn't win.

Politics isn't about what you want, it's about you can get, and we can't get Sanders in the White House.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:37 PM

158. Is he?

 

Wonder what people thought of the revelation that his advisers believe Medicare for all will never pass.

Bernie is adorable in his angry 😡 way. He is a bit stuck in the 1960's for my taste, "establishment," how heavy man!

Would suspect young people would prefer a candidate fully landed in the 21st century, but who can say but the young themselves

Hope to see a large surge in young voters, this is their future we are debating, after all! So far, no one has drawn them forth even so much as Barack Obama. Hope you are right and that will be changing.

Right now, Senator Sanders has a bit more than one quarter. Perhaps we should wait for a consensus, at least, before examining our consciences for what? the failure to become a Bernie Bro?
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:14 PM

160. He's about half as popular as he was several years ago.

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:38 PM

162. i wanted him in 2016. i am unopposed to him this time, tho i like pete.

 

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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:23 AM

164. Well...

 

1. Democrats on DU are a bit older.

2. Young people are naive.

3. It's easier to support socialism when going to college or working a part time job, still living with your parents... Living with your parents, yeah... that's called communism.

4. It will take a Blue Wave to keep the house and retake the senate, something I do not think Senator Sanders will be able to assist in.

5. How in the hell are we not in the minority NOW???

6. Your welcome to your opinion...

PS, I was a 2016 Sanders supporter who voted for HRC.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:07 AM

177. We know better.

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:07 AM

178. Those guardrails in the US Congress failed to stop a full-fledged

 

fascist dictator from taking over.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:14 AM

180. Operation Chaos led by the GOP and Putin

 

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Response to aeromanKC (Reply #180)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 03:53 AM

188. This as well

 

It is not clear how much support he really has
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:38 AM

183. I'm not a Sanders supporter but I won't deny that he's talented at campaigning.

 

I have severe doubts that he could win a general election, but given all the obstacles he has - the Socialist tag, his age, the hatred of a large percentage of the party, a widespread fear that he would be a disaster in the general election - he obviously has political talent to be doing as well as he is.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 03:35 AM

186. A simple message repeated with conviction.

 

It helps that what he argues for are the best policy and the problems he points out are real problems.

Stay on message, be positive, and reach as many people as possible.
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 03:50 AM

187. Free college

 

Relief of student loan debt etc. the youth vote never comes out though no matter who the candidate is. They all, young or not, want a savior to deliver the so called revolution, which will never happen. 15% of his support in NH primaries was reported as unaffiliated voters who said they won’t vote dem in the general.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:57 AM

193. magnetic...

 

...personality...
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:50 PM

201. 1. College kids don't vote. 2. College kids are not the voters we need to target.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:01 PM

203. Bernie is populist.

 

just like Trump.

They promise people that there is someone to blame for their perceived ills.

With Trump, it was immigrants (and people of color, muslims, etc)... with Bernie it is "millionaires and billionaires" (never mind that Bernie is a millionaire).


They promise "free stuff" to address the ills... with Trump "we will build a beautiful wall and Mexico will pay for it"... for Bernie it's "college tuition, health care, housing for everyone and millionaires and billionaires will pay for it"

None of the promises survive even a cursory examination for feasibility or payment. Doesn't matter, it sounds good to people who are living paycheck to paycheck and have a grudge that the economy "isn't working for them" (meaning that why can't they have a house in the suburbs, decent safe schools for their 2.5 children, and a 2 week vacation to Europe or Hawaii every year).
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 01:50 PM

207. Americans like a patriarch

 

I've heard his die hard supporters refer to him as "Uncle Bernie." Similar to Reagan, Clinton, Obama and Trump supporters they see Bernie as a savior that will fix all of America's problems.

Plus Bernie portays himself as the underdog and anti-establishment. His supporters identify with that. They hate the political system and he wants to bring it down and start over.

I can't speak to why young people like him so much since I'm 48. Maybe they see him as a father figure who will keep them safe. Maybe it's that they simply want weed to be legalized.


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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 02:08 PM

208. Well, they say the Russians are meddling in our primary. Perhaps they are helping Bernie because

 

he is an easier opponent for Trump to beat in 2020. By helping I mean in the same way they attempted to divide the party in 2016. Just like I believe they did with Jill Stein in 2016.
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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 02:22 PM

209. Is he?

 

Is he that popular? It seems like he's actually lost a huge percentage of his voters from 2016.
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