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Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:29 PM

 

Bernie Sanders' disastrous answer on '60 Minutes

Here's the†exchange between Sanders and Anderson Cooper on "60 Minutes":

Cooper: Do you know how all -- how much though? I mean, do you have a price tag for -- for all of this?

Sanders: We do. I mean, you know, and -- and-- the price tag is -- it will be substantially less than letting the current system go. I think it's about $30 trillion.

Cooper: That's just for "Medicare for All," you're talking about?

Sanders: That's just "Medicare for All," yes.

Cooper: Do you have -- a price tag for all of these things?

Sanders: No, I don't. We try to -- no, you mentioned making public colleges and universities tuition free and canceling all student debt, that's correct. That's what I want to do. We pay for that through a modest tax on Wall Street speculation.

Cooper:†But you say you don't know what the total price is, but you know how it's gonna be paid for. How do you know it's gonna be paid for if you don't know how much the price is?

Sanders: Well, I can't -- you know, I can't rattle off to you every nickel and every dime. But we have accounted for -- you -- you talked about "Medicare for All." We have options out there that will pay for it.


"Experts estimate that Sanders' major proposals would cost a staggering $60 trillion and would double the size of the government (while his tax plans fall $27 trillion short of paying for it). There's a reason that, when pressed on the cost of his plans, Sanders simply refuses to answer, saying he actually has no idea and 'no one does.'"

But Sanders once†did†admit the harsh reality of how his plans would be paid for during a debate over the summer. Here's the†exchange†between Sanders and NBC's Savannah Guthrie..:Sanders: People who have health care under "Medicare for All" will have no premiums, no deductibles, no copayments, no out of pocket expenses.†Yes, they will pay more in taxes, but less in health care for what they get.

So, here's what we now know about Sanders' plans for America:

1) He isn't sure how much they will cost.

2) He isn't totally sure how he will pay for them.

3) It's likely they will be paid for by an increase in taxes on the middle class.

Whoo boy. Maybe Sanders is right that America is ready for a fundamental reorienting of how we value ourselves, our society and our money. But if he's not -- and this election winds up being like virtually every other election in which people vote on who is going to let them keep more of their money -- then Sanders (and Democrats by extension) have a big problem.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie Sanders' disastrous answer on '60 Minutes (Original post)
SunSeeker Feb 2020 OP
Hoyt Feb 2020 #1
SunSeeker Feb 2020 #3
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #9
Hoyt Feb 2020 #13
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #19
Hoyt Feb 2020 #21
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #33
Hoyt Feb 2020 #36
Turbineguy Feb 2020 #2
SunSeeker Feb 2020 #6
bunny planet Feb 2020 #4
Democrats_win Feb 2020 #5
Turbineguy Feb 2020 #8
Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #14
msongs Feb 2020 #7
Name removed Feb 2020 #10
Deero Feb 2020 #12
Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #15
LineLineReply .
TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #22
uponit7771 Feb 2020 #26
Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #11
stopbush Feb 2020 #16
SunSeeker Feb 2020 #18
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #20
uponit7771 Feb 2020 #24
stopbush Feb 2020 #25
C_U_L8R Feb 2020 #17
uponit7771 Feb 2020 #23
NoMoreRepugs Feb 2020 #27
empedocles Feb 2020 #28
David__77 Feb 2020 #29
delisen Feb 2020 #30
Gothmog Feb 2020 #31
Scurrilous Feb 2020 #32
betsuni Feb 2020 #34
onetexan Feb 2020 #35

Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:35 PM

1. Interesting Sanders says MFA will cost about $30 Trillion over 10 years, Warren says it's $52 T.

 

That's a big difference. I guess it doesn't matter if none of us will have to pay for it, unless we are filthy rich.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:44 PM

3. Wow, I had not heard that $52T figure from Warren.

 

I'm sure her math is much better than Bernie's. Unfortunately, I think her precision and honesty has cost her votes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:54 PM

9. The costs will be shifted from premiums copays

 

deductibles and mystery bills to taxes. If you are well off you might see a small increase, but the vast majority of working people will see a decrease in their total healthcare costs.

Of course it is easier to just claim itís free stuff or that only the rich will pay for it or that we should only look at what MFA costs and ignore what it costs to do nothing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:03 PM

13. Everyone gets premiums, out-of-pocket costs, etc., will be converted to taxes, etc.

 

But Sanders doesn't know what it will cost. Warren says it's 73% more than Sanders.

Some people might pay less, others might pay more. Small businesses that are barely making it and don't provide benefits, will now pay taxes. Maybe that is good to get everyone covered, but I think people would like to know how much it is going to be before voting for it.

And, on top of MFA, we have to pay for climate change, jobs training, deficit and debt reduction, bolstering social security, college debt, "free" college, child care, etc. How much is that going to cost. Again, it may be worth it. But I think most people want a RELIABLE price tag on these things.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:33 PM

19. So when you wrote

 

"I guess it doesn't matter if none of us will have to pay for it, unless we are filthy rich." What exactly did you mean, as that seems to be the point I addressed.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:44 PM

21. Simple -- Sanders and Warren are trying to convince us we'll get all this stuff

 

without paying for it. Thatís polulist junk.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:43 PM

33. Neither of them are doing that. Instead that is a standard rightwing talking point

 

that somehow social programs funded through taxes are 'free stuff'.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:53 PM

36. It is when Warren says the middle-class and below won't pay a penny. That's

 

simply populist junk.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:42 PM

2. I wonder how much will be saved

 

in insurance costs, medical costs and suffering.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:50 PM

6. The suffering of dying for lack of care is incalculable.

 

I'm not saying the middle class shouldn't have their taxes increased to pay for M4A, but Bernie is really going to need to come up with a better response to justify middle class tax increases than he gave on 60 Minutes and to Savannah Guthrie. And he needs to know the numbers, so people can decide if they'll be better off. Otherwise, they will assume he's withholding the numbers because he knows they won't like it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:45 PM

4. Maybe

 

He should have quoted this study instead....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/medicare-save-450-billion-68-232211541.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:49 PM

5. Google: how much does the U.S. spend per year on healthcare?

 

Answer: $3.5 trillion (in 2017)

So over ten years we will probably pay in the neighborhood of $35 trillion for medicare without Sander's plan ANYWAY.

Of course we're talking about future spending and inflation must be included because health care costs are gonna go up! If you can control the costs--which is a big IF, you might do better than Warren's 52 trillion. In fact we really do need to do something about growing costs in medical care: thus the need for Sander's plan

On Democracy Now! today left-leaning economist Richard Wolff said that most Americans don't really care about the debate they just want the healthcare. The old making sausage analogy. It's ugly, tell us when it's finished. In the Democratic Debates, I'm sick of this particular debate. Just know that we can't continue with big insurance screwing us out of medical care. Oh, and don't forget Trump is going to screw everyone out of medical care if we give him more time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Democrats_win (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:54 PM

8. Also...

 

I suspect that the insurance companies are fine with price increases since their system is now based on "cost plus 15 percent".
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Democrats_win (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:05 PM

14. That is not going to concern the average voter...they care about their situation and Sanders

 

would lose millions of insurance jobs...it would be chaos...we would be shown the door...and the GOp would pass nothing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:50 PM

7. he knows how much the F35s cost and he supported them anyway nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:01 PM

12. he will win neither.

 

You will see.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Name removed (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:06 PM

15. He won't win Florida which has been trending red and he has a bad history with Castro.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Name removed (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:51 PM

22. .

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Name removed (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:55 PM

26. last three months of polling n Florida disagrees with you

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/fl/florida_trump_vs_sanders-6842.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:59 PM

11. Well since it's such a disaster I expect it will show in the S.C. and Tuesday primaries

 

And then everyone will relax because Sanders will be out of the race.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:13 PM

16. The average American would pay 35-45% of their earnings in federal taxes

 

and increases in FICA taxes under Sandersí plans that include MFA, free college tuition etc. Thatís what they pay in Europe. Why would it be different here if we adopt a European-style plan?

THAT is what the electorate needs to know. You want democratic socialism? Letís have an honest discussion. Who knows? Americans might be just fine with that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to stopbush (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:32 PM

18. Exactly. Bernie could have had this discussion with Vermont's law.

 

But he would not. And when it came to implement the taxes needed to finance the Vermont single payer law, he went AWOL, leaving Vermont single payer activists twisting in the wind.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to stopbush (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:35 PM

20. The average american is paying around 5000/yr in out of pocket health care costs

 

on top of their premiums.

Those costs will disappear. I'm sure you factored that into your analysis, right?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:54 PM

24. No one believes Sanders on the cost

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:55 PM

25. Yes, I did.

 

BTW - average is just that. Average.

Americans with employer-provided insurance incur widely different medical expenses from year to year. Most years, expenses are manageable. Occasionally, expenses are catastrophic. People cross their fingers that their medical expenses are not exorbitant. They are OK with their employer plan most years because they donít have high out-of-pocket expenses in co-pays etc.

Thatís a difference that never gets discussed when the subject is MFA. People are not going to be happy paying higher taxes for their health care every year when they are relatively healthy, while they will naturally be overjoyed when their health does go south and they get good MFA healthcare without high out-of-pocket costs associated with ill health.

MFA advocates are asking the Average Joe to contemplate a future benefit from MFA while looking at their current finances taking a hit through tax increases that will be necessary to fund MFA.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:20 PM

17. This scares the crap out of me

 

What's Sanders been doing the last four years? His plan is essentially the same. You'd think there'd be some details? Are we all supposed to trust our savings and livelihoods will be safe if trillions are dismissed as mere nickels and dimes?? I admire the goals but I am not confident that this won't lead to ruin. I'm looking and listening for reassurance that there's a competent plan of action. Sadly, anyone who questions him gets yelled at.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:53 PM

23. Cooper: Do you have -- a price tag for all of these things? Sanders: No, I don't... jus damn

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:10 PM

27. Is it me or are a bunch of the Bernie supporters/loyalists as

 

angry as Bernie? Seems that way.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:10 PM

28. The BS vetting gets more serious.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:11 PM

29. People may be perplexed at those not caring.

 

People can see the country in which they are living.
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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:16 PM

30. Sanders possibly does not want to say it will come from military budget

 


I don't think one really needs to say were the money is to come from.

Sanders proposals are a wish list of what he sees is needed for most people to have a good life.

Agree on what is needed, then develop a budget is a reasonable approach.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:32 PM

31. Sanders still won't be honest with the American people about how much his plans cost

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:34 PM

32. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:45 PM

34. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:08 PM

35. There BS goes again, promising things he can't deliver.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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