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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:02 PM

 

No, President Obama did not say the same thing as BS about Cuba.

BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.

President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated
pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations.
Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.

President Obama made the remarks at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.

US presidential visit

President Obama arrived in Cuba for a three-day visit on March 20, 2016. Obama headed a delegation of between 800 and 1,200, including business people and congressional leaders who had helped in establishing the 2014 normalization deal.

Obama was the first sitting U.S. president to visit Cuba since Calvin Coolidge in 1928. Obama said that he would only visit Cuba if he could meet with Cuban dissidents: "If I go on a visit, then part of the deal is that I get to talk to everybody. I've made it very clear in my conversations directly with President Raúl Castro that we would continue to reach out to those who want to broaden the scope for, you know, free expression inside of Cuba."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_thaw

***************************************************************************************

David Sirota used an abruptly edited short clip in order mislead people. Here's the context that Sirota failed to provide. It's not the first time


Remarks by President Obama and President Raul Castro of Cuba in a Joint Press Conference

Palace of the Revolution
Havana, Cuba
March 21, 2016

Our growing engagement with Cuba is guided by one overarching goal -- advancing the mutual interests of our two countries, including improving the lives of our people, both Cubans and Americans. That’s why I’m here.

I’ve said consistently, after more than five very difficult decades, the relationship between our governments will not be transformed overnight. We continue, as President Castro indicated, to have some very serious differences, including on democracy and human rights. And President Castro and I have had very frank and candid conversations on these subjects.

The United States recognizes progress that Cuba has made as a nation, its enormous achievements in education and in health care. And perhaps most importantly, I affirmed that Cuba’s destiny will not be decided by the United States or any other nation. Cuba is sovereign and, rightly, has great pride. And the future of Cuba will be decided by Cubans, not by anybody else.

At the same time, as we do wherever we go around the world, I made it clear that the United States will continue to speak up on behalf of democracy, including the right of the Cuban people to decide their own future. We’ll speak out on behalf of universal human rights, including freedom of speech, and assembly, and religion. Indeed, I look forward to meeting with and hearing from Cuban civil society leaders tomorrow.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2016/03/21/remarks-president-obama-and-president-raul-castro-cuba-joint-press%20

It's disgusting the way Sirota continually tries to play the electorate for a fool and really sad that people keep falling for his dissembling.

David Sirota tending a sick child.




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Joe Biden

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Reply No, President Obama did not say the same thing as BS about Cuba. (Original post)
lapucelle Feb 2020 OP
wyldwolf Feb 2020 #1
lapucelle Feb 2020 #3
Cha Feb 2020 #8
mcar Feb 2020 #2
highplainsdem Feb 2020 #4
Drunken Irishman Feb 2020 #5
lapucelle Feb 2020 #10
NurseJackie Feb 2020 #6
Cha Feb 2020 #7
uponit7771 Feb 2020 #9
brer cat Feb 2020 #11
yaesu Feb 2020 #12
Hassler Feb 2020 #13
Cha Feb 2020 #15
sheshe2 Feb 2020 #14
ehrnst Feb 2020 #16
DanTex Feb 2020 #17
lapucelle Feb 2020 #18
DanTex Feb 2020 #19
lapucelle Feb 2020 #21
LanternWaste Feb 2020 #22
sheshe2 Mar 2020 #44
Gothmog Feb 2020 #26
ehrnst Feb 2020 #28
DanTex Feb 2020 #29
ehrnst Feb 2020 #30
DanTex Feb 2020 #31
ehrnst Feb 2020 #32
DanTex Feb 2020 #33
ehrnst Feb 2020 #34
DanTex Feb 2020 #35
ehrnst Feb 2020 #36
DanTex Feb 2020 #37
ehrnst Feb 2020 #38
Gothmog Feb 2020 #20
Cha Feb 2020 #23
Sloumeau Feb 2020 #24
Gothmog Feb 2020 #25
Me. Feb 2020 #27
Gothmog Feb 2020 #39
LineNew Reply K
Cha Feb 2020 #40
Gothmog Mar 2020 #41
lapucelle Mar 2020 #42
Gothmog Mar 2020 #43
NCProgressive Mar 2020 #45

Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:03 PM

1. "the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing..

 

US-Cuba relations."

THAT is too much for them to comprehend.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:10 PM

3. BS was talking about "results" of Castro's 1959 revolution.

 

President Obama was talking about post-2014 improvements that were the results of American diplomatic negotiations.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:02 PM

8. sirota knows exactly what he was doing as far as this goes..

 

BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.

President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated
pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.


President Obama made the remarks at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:05 PM

2. Thank you!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:17 PM

4. K&R

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:53 PM

5. It's criminal how Sirota keeps getting away with taking people out of context.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:06 PM

10. And people keep faling for it.

 

I've learned to always source Sirota's abruptly edited video clips.

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:58 PM

6. So they're all lying?

 

Wow! Color me surprised.
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:59 PM

7. Now why does sirota think he

 

has to make up out of thin air what President Obama was talking about.

Thank you so much for this, lapucelle!!!

Big KR!!
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:03 PM

9. K&R, Obama praised the baby in the bath water Sanders praised the babies father

 

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:17 PM

11. Thank you, lapucelle.

 

Setting the record straight is always necessary with Sirota.
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 12:34 AM

12. I don't know anyone named BS. nt

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 12:43 AM

13. Sirota: another Sanders staffer who thought voting for Jill Stein

 

was more important than keeping a fascist, Putin asset and admitted predator from the WH.
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Response to Hassler (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 08:14 AM

15. Yeah, shows where his head was at

 

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 02:19 AM

14. Davey Sirota lied again.

 

Who knew? Slam Obama. lol. What an ass.

Frankly I do not trust anyone that voted Stein.

Your boss must luv ya. He didn't like him much either. Harry Reid had to take him to task for wanting to primary a very popular President. The black guy.
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 12:46 PM

16. Thank you for the fact check. It will not make some happy, but facts are facts. (nt)

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 12:58 PM

17. LOL. Yes he did. He praised the healthcare and education system, same as Bernie.

 

And Bernie also criticized Castro's authoritarianism, again same as Obama. It's great you found some other thing that Obama said about Cuba, but here are Obama's comments that precisely echo what Bernie said.


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Response to DanTex (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 01:24 PM

18. Sanders praised Castro and his revolution two days ago on national TV. It's a falsehood to say

 

that President Obama "did the same thing" in the effort to control the damage of the 60 Minutes interview.

In the 60 minutes interview, Sanders was talking about changes made by Castro circa 1960 as a direct result of the communist revolution in Cuba.

In his press conference in March of 2016, President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.

Remarks by President Obama and President Raul Castro of Cuba in a Joint Press Conference

Palace of the Revolution
Havana, Cuba
March 21, 2016

Our growing engagement with Cuba is guided by one overarching goal -- advancing the mutual interests of our two countries, including improving the lives of our people, both Cubans and Americans. That’s why I’m here.

I’ve said consistently, after more than five very difficult decades, the relationship between our governments will not be transformed overnight. We continue, as President Castro indicated, to have some very serious differences, including on democracy and human rights. And President Castro and I have had very frank and candid conversations on these subjects.

The United States recognizes progress that Cuba has made as a nation, its enormous achievements in education and in health care. And perhaps most importantly, I affirmed that Cuba’s destiny will not be decided by the United States or any other nation. Cuba is sovereign and, rightly, has great pride. And the future of Cuba will be decided by Cubans, not by anybody else.

At the same time, as we do wherever we go around the world, I made it clear that the United States will continue to speak up on behalf of democracy, including the right of the Cuban people to decide their own future. We’ll speak out on behalf of universal human rights, including freedom of speech, and assembly, and religion. Indeed, I look forward to meeting with and hearing from Cuban civil society leaders tomorrow.


It's reprehensible that anyone post "alternative facts" on this site, especially facts that misrepresent the diplomatic efforts of a Democratic president whose goal was to improve the lives of marginalized people and to address and rectify the human rights abuses of Castro's communist revolution and regime in Cuba.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 01:37 PM

19. No, he didn't. Bernie praised Castro's education program, same as what Obama did.

 

It's funny, your excerpt is a different Obama quote from a different event than where Obama praised the Cuban education and healthcare system. I have no idea why you keep posting that.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/03/25/obama_forget_the_difference_between_capitalism_and_communism_just_decide_what_works.html
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Response to DanTex (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:35 PM

21. That is the same quote from the same speech.

 

The complete transcript is that at the whitehouse.gov website.

David Sirota’s “alternate fact narrative” consisting of an abruptly edited decontextualized snippet won’t fool readers at DU.

This isn’t reddit.




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Response to DanTex (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:37 PM

22. I often ask the same of you in regards to logical fallacies...

 

"I have no idea why you keep posting that..."

I often ask the same of you in regards to consistently using logical fallacies and consistently failing to provide objective data to support your conclusions.

Now there's a t-shirt we both can wear: "I have no idea..." (just no comic-sans fonts)
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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:31 PM

44. ...

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to DanTex (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 11:59 PM

26. You are wrong

 


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Response to DanTex (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:45 AM

28. Nope... not the same at all.

 

BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.

President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.

You're welcome!
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:52 AM

29. LOL. The Cuban education and healthcare systems didn't suddenly improve in 2014.

 

Nice try though!
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Response to DanTex (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:56 AM

30. Um... didn't say that they did.

 

Are you confused about who you are responding to?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:58 AM

31. Yeah you did. You made the absurd argument that Obama was complementing

 

post-2014 progress. LOL. The education and healthcare programs Obama was praising were in place way before 2014.

Anyway, I get that you're going to hate Bernie no matter what. Thankfully, everyone else can watch and has watched Obama saying the exact same thing as Bernie, so have fun with this talking point!
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Response to DanTex (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:03 AM

32. He was talking about progress made towards an agreement, not an indoctrination

 

program that lasted 9 months in the early 60's like Sanders was.

Lol.

You're welcome.

Anyway, I get that you're going to defend Bernie no matter what. Thankfully, everyone else can watch while you frantically push the talking Obama saying the exact same thing as Bernie, when other people see the obvious..

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:08 AM

33. Do you ever wonder why Bernie is so far ahead in the polls?

 

It's because of absurd smears like this one. Do you really think anyone is going to believe that Obama thinks Cuba's education program started in 2014?

Hint: nobody does.
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Response to DanTex (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:21 AM

34. More frantic attempts at a red herring.

 

"Absurd smears" like comparing his own actual statements with Obama's own actual statements?

Do you really think anyone is going to believe that Obama thinks Cuba's education program started in 2014?


Let's attack a huge straw man, shall we, when the red herring doesn't work to derail the discussion?



Good luck with that!

You should have learned by now that silly attempts logical fallacies don't work on me.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:23 AM

35. LOL. By all means, keep up the same anti-Bernie strategy.

 

It's been working amazingly well so far! Why do anything different?
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Response to DanTex (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:27 AM

36. Yet an even more desperate attempt at a red herring....

 

That's two red herrings and another flogging of a big ol' straw man.

Any vetting of Bernie is an "anti-Bernie strategy" to you, Hon.

Think about that. What does that imply?





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Response to ehrnst (Reply #36)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:29 AM

37. Keep it up! You're totally taking Bernie down! It's working!

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:35 AM

38. The desperation increases...

 

Frustrating when the person you're trying to wear down just doesn't SUBMIT, quit, or implode, isn't it?



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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:28 PM

20. No, Bernie Sanders' Discussion of Cuba's Castro is Nothing Like Obama's

 




Eric Levitz in New York Magazine on Monday makes the case that Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview admiring some aspects of Fidel Castro’s regime in Cuba was roughly the same as Barack Obama’s 2016 discussion of Castro. This is in large part just an amplification of ideas flying around Twitter this week, as in the tweet pictured above. A quick look at Sanders’ and Obama’s statements shows why this analysis is entirely incorrect.

In 2016, Obama was addressing hundreds of young business and social entrepreneurs from across Latin America in Buenos Aires, Argentina. If you read the transcript of his talk, you see immediately that Obama, in his signature style, was reinforcing the message of pragmatism and evidence-based decision making — as he puts it “be[ing] practical and just choos[ing] from what works.” He was in fact arguing against ideology, at a time when he must have been watching the destabilizing effects the surge in ideological politics was causing not just in the United States but in other countries long considered staid and practical.

In discussing Cuba, Obama relayed direct conversations he had with the Castros, insight into the diplomacy of highlighting policy areas where there might be more agreement in order to create common ground with space to push for change in other areas. I doubt many would think it rational to approach a nascent foreign relationship with a guns blazing, take no prisoners attitude, especially when any agreement depended on the other country’s support. Obama was relaying one relatively high stakes conversation with foreign leaders to another unaligned audience in a foreign venue. I expect it does not take an expert in international relations to see the U.S. interest in pitching this information a certain way for both of these audiences.

In contrast, Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview was not conducted for foreign consumption or to support U.S. national interests, and it did not come at a time of opening up in the U.S.-Cuba relationship. Instead, it was given for a local public access TV show. It was effectively a vanity project giving Sanders a platform to expound his views of politics and the world. Because of this, the messaging here is all Sanders. Further contrasting Obama, it was rooted in ideology, with Sanders opening, “As a socialist, the word socialism doesn’t frighten me,” before launching into his discussion of self-described socialist regimes. While you could argue the interview might not be a perfect snapshot of today’s presidential candidate’s innermost thoughts, it was a clear statement of what Sanders believed at the time and unfiltered by the degree of drafting and review Obama’s messaging on this topic would have undergone....

From this brief look, we can see that Obama’s talk involved a little flattery, a little spin, and a good deal of appealing to an audience that he saw as future leaders. In contrast, Sanders’ words were simply praise without an intentional objective towards a defined audience. Conflating these two discussions is flimsy, misleading, and indicative of the pro-regime propaganda captured in Sanders’ own sentiment.
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 09:01 PM

23. Thanks, Goth!

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 09:03 PM

24. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 11:58 PM

25. you can always count on @JoeBiden to defend @BarackObama 's record and legacy.

 


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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:09 AM

27. Thank You

 

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 04:55 PM

39. Havana gives front-page coverage to Bernie Sanders for praising Fidel Castro

 




Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders views on the Cuban revolution have earned him a storm of criticism in the U.S. But there’s one place where his comments have received glowing, front-page reviews: Cuba.

Granma, the Communist Party newspaper, prominently displayed a report about Sanders and his praise of “some of the social programs implemented by the historic leader of the Cuban Revolution Fidel Castro.”

“U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, today one of the strongest candidates for the nomination of the Democratic Party to the November presidential elections, recognized Cuba’s role in sending doctors worldwide,” Granma said.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article240626672.html#storylink=cpy
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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 10:17 PM

40. K

 

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Thu Mar 5, 2020, 11:29 AM

41. This makes me smile

 


?s=20
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 5, 2020, 11:45 AM

42. Wow...

 

...not even viable.
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 5, 2020, 12:17 PM

43. Sanders may not get any delegates in Florida

 


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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:32 PM

45. Sirota is SCUM

 

He would make Donald Trump look like an eagle scout.
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