Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumNo, President Obama did not say the same thing as BS about Cuba.
BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated
pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.
President Obama made the remarks at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.
President Obama arrived in Cuba for a three-day visit on March 20, 2016. Obama headed a delegation of between 800 and 1,200, including business people and congressional leaders who had helped in establishing the 2014 normalization deal.
Obama was the first sitting U.S. president to visit Cuba since Calvin Coolidge in 1928. Obama said that he would only visit Cuba if he could meet with Cuban dissidents: "If I go on a visit, then part of the deal is that I get to talk to everybody. I've made it very clear in my conversations directly with President Raúl Castro that we would continue to reach out to those who want to broaden the scope for, you know, free expression inside of Cuba."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_thaw
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David Sirota used an abruptly edited short clip in order mislead people. Here's the context that Sirota failed to provide. It's not the first time
Palace of the Revolution
Havana, Cuba
March 21, 2016
Our growing engagement with Cuba is guided by one overarching goal -- advancing the mutual interests of our two countries, including improving the lives of our people, both Cubans and Americans. Thats why Im here.
Ive said consistently, after more than five very difficult decades, the relationship between our governments will not be transformed overnight. We continue, as President Castro indicated, to have some very serious differences, including on democracy and human rights. And President Castro and I have had very frank and candid conversations on these subjects.
The United States recognizes progress that Cuba has made as a nation, its enormous achievements in education and in health care. And perhaps most importantly, I affirmed that Cubas destiny will not be decided by the United States or any other nation. Cuba is sovereign and, rightly, has great pride. And the future of Cuba will be decided by Cubans, not by anybody else.
At the same time, as we do wherever we go around the world, I made it clear that the United States will continue to speak up on behalf of democracy, including the right of the Cuban people to decide their own future. Well speak out on behalf of universal human rights, including freedom of speech, and assembly, and religion. Indeed, I look forward to meeting with and hearing from Cuban civil society leaders tomorrow.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2016/03/21/remarks-president-obama-and-president-raul-castro-cuba-joint-press%20
It's disgusting the way Sirota continually tries to play the electorate for a fool and really sad that people keep falling for his dissembling.
David Sirota tending a sick child.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)US-Cuba relations."
THAT is too much for them to comprehend.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,238 posts)President Obama was talking about post-2014 improvements that were the results of American diplomatic negotiations.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,123 posts)President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated
pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.
President Obama made the remarks at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,298 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,959 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,238 posts)I've learned to always source Sirota's abruptly edited video clips.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Wow! Color me surprised.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,123 posts)has to make up out of thin air what President Obama was talking about.
Thank you so much for this, lapucelle!!!
Big KR!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brer cat
(24,555 posts)Setting the record straight is always necessary with Sirota.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yaesu
(8,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassler
(3,370 posts)was more important than keeping a fascist, Putin asset and admitted predator from the WH.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,123 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,728 posts)Who knew? Slam Obama. lol. What an ass.
Frankly I do not trust anyone that voted Stein.
Your boss must luv ya. He didn't like him much either. Harry Reid had to take him to task for wanting to primary a very popular President. The black guy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)And Bernie also criticized Castro's authoritarianism, again same as Obama. It's great you found some other thing that Obama said about Cuba, but here are Obama's comments that precisely echo what Bernie said.
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,238 posts)that President Obama "did the same thing" in the effort to control the damage of the 60 Minutes interview.
In the 60 minutes interview, Sanders was talking about changes made by Castro circa 1960 as a direct result of the communist revolution in Cuba.
In his press conference in March of 2016, President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.
Palace of the Revolution
Havana, Cuba
March 21, 2016
Our growing engagement with Cuba is guided by one overarching goal -- advancing the mutual interests of our two countries, including improving the lives of our people, both Cubans and Americans. Thats why Im here.
Ive said consistently, after more than five very difficult decades, the relationship between our governments will not be transformed overnight. We continue, as President Castro indicated, to have some very serious differences, including on democracy and human rights. And President Castro and I have had very frank and candid conversations on these subjects.
The United States recognizes progress that Cuba has made as a nation, its enormous achievements in education and in health care. And perhaps most importantly, I affirmed that Cubas destiny will not be decided by the United States or any other nation. Cuba is sovereign and, rightly, has great pride. And the future of Cuba will be decided by Cubans, not by anybody else.
At the same time, as we do wherever we go around the world, I made it clear that the United States will continue to speak up on behalf of democracy, including the right of the Cuban people to decide their own future. Well speak out on behalf of universal human rights, including freedom of speech, and assembly, and religion. Indeed, I look forward to meeting with and hearing from Cuban civil society leaders tomorrow.
It's reprehensible that anyone post "alternative facts" on this site, especially facts that misrepresent the diplomatic efforts of a Democratic president whose goal was to improve the lives of marginalized people and to address and rectify the human rights abuses of Castro's communist revolution and regime in Cuba.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It's funny, your excerpt is a different Obama quote from a different event than where Obama praised the Cuban education and healthcare system. I have no idea why you keep posting that.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/03/25/obama_forget_the_difference_between_capitalism_and_communism_just_decide_what_works.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,238 posts)The complete transcript is that at the whitehouse.gov website.
David Sirotas alternate fact narrative consisting of an abruptly edited decontextualized snippet wont fool readers at DU.
This isnt reddit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"I have no idea why you keep posting that..."
I often ask the same of you in regards to consistently using logical fallacies and consistently failing to provide objective data to support your conclusions.
Now there's a t-shirt we both can wear: "I have no idea..." (just no comic-sans fonts)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,728 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,086 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.
President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.
You're welcome!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Nice try though!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Are you confused about who you are responding to?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)post-2014 progress. LOL. The education and healthcare programs Obama was praising were in place way before 2014.
Anyway, I get that you're going to hate Bernie no matter what. Thankfully, everyone else can watch and has watched Obama saying the exact same thing as Bernie, so have fun with this talking point!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)program that lasted 9 months in the early 60's like Sanders was.
Lol.
You're welcome.
Anyway, I get that you're going to defend Bernie no matter what. Thankfully, everyone else can watch while you frantically push the talking Obama saying the exact same thing as Bernie, when other people see the obvious..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It's because of absurd smears like this one. Do you really think anyone is going to believe that Obama thinks Cuba's education program started in 2014?
Hint: nobody does.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"Absurd smears" like comparing his own actual statements with Obama's own actual statements?
Let's attack a huge straw man, shall we, when the red herring doesn't work to derail the discussion?
Good luck with that!
You should have learned by now that silly attempts logical fallacies don't work on me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It's been working amazingly well so far! Why do anything different?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's two red herrings and another flogging of a big ol' straw man.
Any vetting of Bernie is an "anti-Bernie strategy" to you, Hon.
Think about that. What does that imply?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Frustrating when the person you're trying to wear down just doesn't SUBMIT, quit, or implode, isn't it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,086 posts)Link to tweet
In 2016, Obama was addressing hundreds of young business and social entrepreneurs from across Latin America in Buenos Aires, Argentina. If you read the transcript of his talk, you see immediately that Obama, in his signature style, was reinforcing the message of pragmatism and evidence-based decision making as he puts it be[ing] practical and just choos[ing] from what works. He was in fact arguing against ideology, at a time when he must have been watching the destabilizing effects the surge in ideological politics was causing not just in the United States but in other countries long considered staid and practical.
In discussing Cuba, Obama relayed direct conversations he had with the Castros, insight into the diplomacy of highlighting policy areas where there might be more agreement in order to create common ground with space to push for change in other areas. I doubt many would think it rational to approach a nascent foreign relationship with a guns blazing, take no prisoners attitude, especially when any agreement depended on the other countrys support. Obama was relaying one relatively high stakes conversation with foreign leaders to another unaligned audience in a foreign venue. I expect it does not take an expert in international relations to see the U.S. interest in pitching this information a certain way for both of these audiences.
In contrast, Bernie Sanders 1985 interview was not conducted for foreign consumption or to support U.S. national interests, and it did not come at a time of opening up in the U.S.-Cuba relationship. Instead, it was given for a local public access TV show. It was effectively a vanity project giving Sanders a platform to expound his views of politics and the world. Because of this, the messaging here is all Sanders. Further contrasting Obama, it was rooted in ideology, with Sanders opening, As a socialist, the word socialism doesnt frighten me, before launching into his discussion of self-described socialist regimes. While you could argue the interview might not be a perfect snapshot of todays presidential candidates innermost thoughts, it was a clear statement of what Sanders believed at the time and unfiltered by the degree of drafting and review Obamas messaging on this topic would have undergone....
From this brief look, we can see that Obamas talk involved a little flattery, a little spin, and a good deal of appealing to an audience that he saw as future leaders. In contrast, Sanders words were simply praise without an intentional objective towards a defined audience. Conflating these two discussions is flimsy, misleading, and indicative of the pro-regime propaganda captured in Sanders own sentiment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,123 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,086 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Me.
(35,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,086 posts)Link to tweet
Granma, the Communist Party newspaper, prominently displayed a report about Sanders and his praise of some of the social programs implemented by the historic leader of the Cuban Revolution Fidel Castro.
U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, today one of the strongest candidates for the nomination of the Democratic Party to the November presidential elections, recognized Cubas role in sending doctors worldwide, Granma said.
Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article240626672.html#storylink=cpy
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,086 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
...not even viable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,086 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NCProgressive
(1,315 posts)He would make Donald Trump look like an eagle scout.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden