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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:28 PM

 

There's no such thing as "superdelegates" and that term needs to be retired

Pledged delegates - chosen by the voters during the primary season, there are roughly 4000 of these.

Unpledged delegates - chosen by the voters in the most recent elections (these are representatives, senators, and governors who were all selected by the electorate as well). There are roughly 700 of these.


The only differences between the first group and the second group are:

1. When the voters selected them (primary season or most-recent general elections)
2. The second group doesn't get to vote unless the first group doesn't give one candidate at least 50%

Since the second group has LESS power than the first, it is kind of weird to call them "super" delegates.


Unpledged delegates were chosen by the electorate too!


Sanders, Klobuchar, Biden, and Warren are all unpledged delegates - by virtue of being current office holders or having won past federal elections.


"superdelegates" is a term that is meant to be inflammatory. People should stop using it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply There's no such thing as "superdelegates" and that term needs to be retired (Original post)
AGeddy Feb 2020 OP
mcar Feb 2020 #1
DanTex Feb 2020 #2
AGeddy Feb 2020 #3
DanTex Feb 2020 #4
AGeddy Feb 2020 #9
DanTex Feb 2020 #14
AGeddy Feb 2020 #16
DanTex Feb 2020 #17
FoxNewsSucks Feb 2020 #29
LiberalFighter Feb 2020 #38
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #40
LiberalFighter Feb 2020 #42
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #45
LiberalFighter Feb 2020 #48
jimfields33 Feb 2020 #27
Scoopster Feb 2020 #39
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #41
The Mouth Feb 2020 #43
relayerbob Feb 2020 #7
DanTex Feb 2020 #8
AGeddy Feb 2020 #10
DanTex Feb 2020 #20
ehrnst Feb 2020 #53
LanternWaste Feb 2020 #22
frazzled Feb 2020 #26
DURHAM D Feb 2020 #32
DanTex Feb 2020 #33
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #5
AGeddy Feb 2020 #11
Walleye Feb 2020 #6
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #47
Walleye Feb 2020 #49
Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #50
George II Feb 2020 #12
AGeddy Feb 2020 #13
George II Feb 2020 #15
Pantagruel Feb 2020 #18
AGeddy Feb 2020 #19
Pantagruel Feb 2020 #24
FoxNewsSucks Feb 2020 #30
Pantagruel Feb 2020 #21
Sloumeau Feb 2020 #23
Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #25
AGeddy Feb 2020 #28
FoxNewsSucks Feb 2020 #31
Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #34
LiberalFighter Feb 2020 #44
doxyluv13 Feb 2020 #35
AGeddy Feb 2020 #36
PoliticAverse Feb 2020 #51
dumptrump1 Feb 2020 #37
LiberalFighter Feb 2020 #46
MichMan Feb 2020 #52

Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:29 PM

1. Good point

 

Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:31 PM

2. LOL. That's not going to change how undemocratic having superdelegates is.

 

Sorry, it's not the terminology that is the problem.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:32 PM

3. The unpledged delegates were democratically selected by the voters

 


In actual elections.


There's nothing "undemocratic" about them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:34 PM

4. No they weren't. That's what makes them unpledged...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:36 PM

9. Yes, they literally were

 

By virtue of winning the most recent general elections as Democrats, they literally were chosen by the voters.

Every unpledged delegate was elected to the position by virtue of winning actual elections as a Democrat.


Nobody can be assigned "unpledged delegate" status. It is earned by winning actual office as a Democrat in a democratic election.


They're "unpledged" because they are free to pick any candidate at the convention that they feel their constituents want.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:40 PM

14. No, they weren't. Most are DNC insiders.

 

A minority of them are elected officials. To congress. Which is a totally different election. When it comes to electing a president, everyone, obviously, should have the same number of votes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:43 PM

16. False

 

Every one of these got their "automatic delegate" status by WINNING ELECTIONS as Democrats

- 30 distinguished party leaders (DPL), consisting of current and former presidents, current and former vice-presidents, former congressional leaders, and former DNC chairs.

- 236 Democratic members of the United States House of Representatives (including non-voting delegates from DC and territories)

- 48 Democratic members of the United States Senate (including Washington, DC shadow senators) and Bernie Sanders, an Independent who caucuses with the Democratic Party

- 28 Democratic governors (including territorial governors and the Mayor of the District of Columbia).

- 438 other elected members (with 434 votes) from the Democratic National Committee (including the chairs and vice-chairs of each state's Democratic Party)


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:44 PM

17. Wrong. The DNC members like Tom Perez aren't elected by voters. They are elected by other insiders.

 

And, like I said, people elected to congress should get exactly the same number of votes as anyone else in a presidential election. Obviously.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:12 PM

29. Those 438 "others"

 

were NOT elected by the public.

And the ones who were elected by the public were NOT elected to override my or anyone else's primary vote. They were elected to do a job running government. Superdelegate status was given them by the party, not the public voter.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:57 PM

38. They are DNC insiders because they are members of a private organization.

 

They get to decide the rules and who is a member.

Just like I belong to an organization that is restricted to members in good standing. Even as a retiree I am a member because of the organization's constitution. And the organization at the local level determine their own bylaws which also allows for members at large for the executive board in addition to the executive officers. Those members at large are not voted on for the position on the executive board but because they were elected separately by different groups within the membership. While the executive officers are elected by the membership as a whole.

Our retiree chair is also an executive board member due to holding the office of retiree chair. The actives can't vote for that position. They can't vote to reject the person either.

Back to the DNC. The voters don't get to decide who are the officers because they are not members of the DNC. It is not a government agency. People like you and me don't get to dictate how the DNC functions. If you want a say you need to be a member. If you want to vote on who is a delegate to the national convention or decide who your member will be to the DNC you need to become a state convention delegate and vote for them.

Just like any organization you must meet the requirements to become a member. And if you are not a member you don't get to make changes to their organization.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 03:14 PM

40. That's fine but the op made a different and

 

inaccurate argument that unpledged delegates were all democratically elected and therefore not different than pledged delegates with respect to the process of selecting a candidate. That argument is wrong on the facts.

With respect to your point, given the de facto institutionalized status of both major parties, they really aren’t private clubs and their processes in a functional representative democracy ought to be as democratic as possible.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 04:51 PM

42. They were democratically elected.

 

Just not by who you want. They could just as easily create a committee to review proposals by the candidates and send a recommendation to the members of the DNC to vote or make their own decision.

Neither federal or state laws dictate the rules that the political parties must follow to determine their nominee. Again, it is the members of the DNC that decide who is part of the DNC. It is the members of the DNC that decide how they run their organization.

Institutionalized status? Does the NAACP have institutionalized status? Does the AFL-CIO have institutionalized status?

You talk about the democratic process but I doubt you know the who and what of your county or state party in their performance. There are major differences between the Democratic and Republican party regarding the democratic process within the organizations.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 05:57 PM

45. Nope. As documented across this thread, quite a few are simply appointed.

 

An accurate statement would be 'some of them are elected officials', and even that is a bit disingenuous, they were not elected specifically to be superdelegates, they were instead elected to for example a senate seat. It is very unlikely that more than a handful of voters understood that by voting for this person for Senate they were also appointing this person as a superdelegate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 06:24 PM

48. It doesn't matter if "voters" know or don't.

 

That is not the process for Democrats to be DNC members. Unless they are a delegate at a state convention or member of the state party committee they don't have a voice or vote in the matter. That is decided by state party rules because it is a state party matter.

The only ones that become a DNC member by virtue of their position are former Democratic presidents and vice presidents, Democratic governors, former DNC chairs, state party chairs and vice chairs, and Democratic members of Congress. That is comparable to members at large for a club or organization.

Voters don't have a say in who becomes a Democratic county chair, a Democratic district chair, or Democratic state chair. Only members as determined by the Democratic Party's rules determine how they elect their officers.

Locally, I don't know if my City Council member will be appointed to a city committee on the city council or even to the county council. I don't know if my state representative or state senator will be appointed to a particular committee or elected to a national organization serving the interests of state legislators. I don't know if my governor will be elected as an officer at the National Governor's Association which they are automatic members due to their elected position. In all of those cases, I don't get to have a vote in the matter once the general election is over.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DanTex (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:06 PM

27. And why on earth would warren, Klobuchar or anybody running be superdelegates

 

That is the last people who should be. What a conflict of interest. I’m not crazy about this new system.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DanTex (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:58 PM

39. Did you vote for your representative and senator?

 

I bet you did. Congrats, you voted for the unpledged delegates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Scoopster (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 03:15 PM

41. We voted for them to represent us in Congress.

 

We did not vote for them to select our candidates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 04:58 PM

43. They were selected for a specific job

 

I might like my Senator or Representative because they do their job well; that doesn't mean I trust them, or want them to have any say on who the Presidential candidate is.

I don't call my plumber to fix the wiring and I don't ask the roofer to tune up my car.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:35 PM

7. It's called "representative" democracy for a reason

 

If the candidates cannot make their case and negotiate their way to a victory in the convention, how do think they will be able to negotiate an end to global climate change or a changed health care system? Sanders and all the rest have to work within the framework of a team. If he wants to be the head of the team, then he has to work with the team, just as all the others do.

Forcing a minority candidate upon a majority that doesn't want him or her id what's undemocratic.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to relayerbob (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:36 PM

8. Yes, we are trying to elect a president to represent the people.

 

And the people should elect that president, not some party insiders. Obviously.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:37 PM

10. "party insiders" aren't unpledged delegates. Only office holders chosen by voters.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:46 PM

20. LOL. Which voters elected Tom Perez?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DanTex (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 29, 2020, 10:36 AM

53. Lol. You don't know much about the process of governance in the Democratic Party, do you?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:51 PM

22. Revolutions don't really go well with elections. You do know the one denies the other, yes?

 

Until victory... and then the little revolutionaries can call it whatever they want.

(unless of course, revolution is simply some efficient commercial branding that means nothing)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:01 PM

26. Sure, it's real "undemocratic" to have delegates

 

that have been elected by Democrats to represent us: senators, congresspersons, governors, state party chairs, etc.

It only sounds undemocratic if you're not a Democrat. And if you have a bit of authoritarianism in your outlook. We live in a representative democracy, as the Framers intended, not a parliamentary system, and not an autocracy. This is a party primary, not an election.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:26 PM

32. How do you feel about former Senator Fred Harris

 

of Oklahoma being a delegate? He is 89 years old. Is that a problem?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:30 PM

33. How about each person gets the same vote? Is that a problem?

 

Never heard of Fred Harris. But I don't see why he should have more of a vote than you or I.
And I definitely don't see why a corporate lobbyist and GOP donor should have more of a vote. Do you?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:35 PM

5. Lulzd.

 

Whatever. Unelected and un-Democratic. They should be abolished.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:38 PM

11. They're not unelected. That's the point.

 


By definition, they ARE elected.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:35 PM

6. I first heard the term superdelegates on Russian TV.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Walleye (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 06:00 PM

47. You were watching Russian TV in the 80s?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 06:27 PM

49. 2016. RT was on a free broadcast channel for a while

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Walleye (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 06:29 PM

50. Ok 'cause they've been around since the mid 80's and they've been commonly referred

 

to as 'superdelegates' the entire time. Russians or no Rusisians.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:38 PM

12. Being an ex-Vice President, Biden actually is an unpledged delegate....

 

Here's the current list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2020_Democratic_Party_automatic_delegates

By the way, the color highlighting on that page is horrible, it gives me a headache!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:38 PM

13. Oops, my mistake. I'll fix.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:40 PM

15. No big thing. Obama and Bill Clinton are also unpledged delegates. Hillary isn't, but should be.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:44 PM

18. numbers don't add up

 

"these are representatives, senators, and governors who were all selected by the electorate as well. There are roughly 700 of these."

Nationally, that group probably is under 400, not 700.
Maybe if you add in some State Reps,Senators ? Who else besides currently serving elected officials, The Clintons, the Obamas etc.???
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Pantagruel (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:46 PM

19. Yes, state reps as well.

 

- 30 distinguished party leaders (DPL), consisting of current and former presidents, current and former vice-presidents, former congressional leaders, and former DNC chairs

- 236 Democratic members of the United States House of Representatives (including non-voting delegates from DC and territories)

- 48 Democratic members of the United States Senate (including Washington, DC shadow senators) and Bernie Sanders, an Independent who caucuses with the Democratic Party

- 28 Democratic governors (including territorial governors and the Mayor of the District of Columbia).

- 438 other elected members (with 434 votes) from the Democratic National Committee (including the chairs and vice-chairs of each state's Democratic Party)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:58 PM

24. Great list

 

I think it's eminently fair to give a vote to our party elders/officials, so to speak.They should have some voice in choosing our nominee.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Pantagruel (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:15 PM

30. They have plenty of voice.

 

They're on TV, write editorials, give speeches.

They shouldn't have the power to override the public voters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:47 PM

21. Crying emoji

 

Somehow made it into my post, anyone know how to rid me of that annoyance?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Pantagruel (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:54 PM

23. Just backspace over it.

 

Put your cursor at the beginning of the first word after the crying emoji, then backspace until it is gone.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:59 PM

25. Approx. 10% of "unpledged" delegates are lobbyists

 

Lobbyists who play both sides of the aisle, or sometime just one:

WILLIAM OWEN, a Tennessee-based Democratic National Committee member backing an effort to use so-called superdelegates to select the party’s presidential nominee — potentially subverting the candidate with the most voter support — is a Republican donor and health care lobbyist.

Owen, who runs a lobbying firm called Asset & Equity Corporations, donated to Sen. Mike Rounds, R-S.D., and Sen. Dan Sullivan, R-Alaska, and gave $8,500 to a joint fundraising committee designed to benefit Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky in 2019.

“I am a committed Democrat but as a lobbyist, there are times when I need to have access to both sides and the way to get access quite often is to make campaign contributions,” said Owen, in a brief interview with The Intercept. — theintercept.com/...


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/2/27/1922660/-Superdelegate-advocating-for-brokered-convention-is-a-lobbyist-who-donated-only-to-GOP-this-cycle?utm_campaign=trending

So much for the myth that super delegates are chosen by the electorate...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:10 PM

28. 70 people. Out of 4700.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:17 PM

31. That's 70 too many.

 

Officeholders are bad enough, why should LOBBYISTS be given the power to help override voters?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to AGeddy (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:36 PM

34. 70 people- out of 700 super delegates are lobbyists nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 05:17 PM

44. Who are the other lobbyists?

 

The writer only mentions one by name and the person was a DNC member before.

If there is a problem with these so called "lobbyists", then state delegates to the state conventions need to change it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:40 PM

35. I've been around since superdelegates were created and they've always been called that.

 

You obviously see an advantage of calling them something else. What.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to doxyluv13 (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:42 PM

36. Their official name is "automatic delegates", also known ans "unpledged delegates"

 


The "superdelegates" name is only used by those who have a hostile outlook on Democratic elected officials.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to AGeddy (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 06:47 PM

51. You seriously think Nancy Pelosi has "a hostile outlook on Democratic elected officials"?...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:49 PM

37. not all superdelegates have been elected to an office.

 

And that's okay


For instance this guy william owen has never been elected and is a gop donor and healthcare lobbyist. That's a good deal!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/us/politics/democratic-superdelegates.amp.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to dumptrump1 (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 05:59 PM

46. There are several categories for automatic delegates.

 

1) Current and former Presidents, Vice-Presidents (3 of each)
2) Former congressional leaders (House Speakers, Senate Minority/Majority Leaders, etc.) (4)
3) current and former DNC chairs (17)
4) Democratic Senators
5) Democratic U.S. Representatives
6) Democratic governors
7) Chairs and Vice Chairs of state parties

They all are members due to being elected to those positions either now or in the past.

The remaining are allocated among the states based on Democratic voter turnout and either elected by state delegates to the state convention or by the state party. In the case of Tennessee they are elected by the state party committee.

On that note, Bill Owen was a former state senator. He supported Tom Perez to be DNC Chair.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AGeddy (Original post)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 07:47 PM

52. I am opposed to superdelegates

 

The whole thing smacks of elitism; that is not what we should be about as a party

I would much rather see them eliminated and replaced by having more regular pledged delegates. Being elected as a delegate is a reward for many people who tirelessly volunteer and support their candidates during the campaign season. Being invited to the convention to place their vote is something that most dream about doing. If not for that, they wouldn't get to experience being part of the convention.

Most elected officials already have all kinds of perks and privileges for being in their positions. They would be invited to be at the convention anyway regardless of being a delegate
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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