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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:36 AM

 

I am a life long Democrat. I am a bit disturbed that Bernie says he is running against my party

My party is not perfect but I don't want to blow it up. Every time I hear Bernie attack my party (calling it "the establishment" ) it bothers me
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply I am a life long Democrat. I am a bit disturbed that Bernie says he is running against my party (Original post)
RAB910 Mar 2020 OP
hlthe2b Mar 2020 #1
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #7
StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #10
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #16
StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #18
Roy Rolling Mar 2020 #51
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #110
StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #131
Hortensis Mar 2020 #102
The Time is Now Mar 2020 #85
azureblue Mar 2020 #90
StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #127
Perseus Mar 2020 #190
RAB910 Mar 2020 #15
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #20
StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #128
lapfog_1 Mar 2020 #135
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #141
lapfog_1 Mar 2020 #156
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #158
True Blue American Mar 2020 #154
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #175
Midnight Writer Mar 2020 #167
NurseJackie Mar 2020 #17
C_U_L8R Mar 2020 #30
redstatebluegirl Mar 2020 #52
whathehell Mar 2020 #63
Walleye Mar 2020 #82
ehrnst Mar 2020 #66
duforsure Mar 2020 #76
dansolo Mar 2020 #187
thenelm1 Mar 2020 #108
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #111
ehrnst Mar 2020 #112
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #115
ehrnst Mar 2020 #123
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #178
True Blue American Mar 2020 #155
Maru Kitteh Mar 2020 #145
LiberalFighter Mar 2020 #146
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #148
mcar Mar 2020 #170
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #171
TNNurse Mar 2020 #188
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Walleye Mar 2020 #3
riversedge Mar 2020 #9
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #24
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Enter Username Here Mar 2020 #8
thesquanderer Mar 2020 #157
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RAB910 Mar 2020 #25
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redqueen Mar 2020 #119
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whathehell Mar 2020 #57
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whathehell Mar 2020 #78
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whathehell Mar 2020 #139
RAB910 Mar 2020 #144
whathehell Mar 2020 #172
treestar Mar 2020 #96
whathehell Mar 2020 #140
marcopolo63 Mar 2020 #58
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we can do it Mar 2020 #69
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Farmer-Rick Mar 2020 #73
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vlyons Mar 2020 #74
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calimary Mar 2020 #75
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RAB910 Mar 2020 #95
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RAB910 Mar 2020 #143
dalton99a Mar 2020 #80
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dualboy24 Mar 2020 #149
NYMinute Mar 2020 #81
George II Mar 2020 #86
Fla Dem Mar 2020 #87
Act_of_Reparation Mar 2020 #88
RAB910 Mar 2020 #93
Act_of_Reparation Mar 2020 #105
RAB910 Mar 2020 #107
marble falls Mar 2020 #92
treestar Mar 2020 #94
democratisphere Mar 2020 #101
CaptainTruth Mar 2020 #104
William769 Mar 2020 #106
Under The Radar Mar 2020 #113
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redqueen Mar 2020 #121
relayerbob Mar 2020 #116
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RAB910 Mar 2020 #165
redstatebluegirl Mar 2020 #151
wnylib Mar 2020 #133
BigDemVoter Mar 2020 #134
TommyCelt Mar 2020 #136
Billsmile Mar 2020 #137
RAB910 Mar 2020 #147
pandr32 Mar 2020 #152
marlakay Mar 2020 #161
LongtimeAZDem Mar 2020 #169
TomCADem Mar 2020 #162
ProfessorPlum Mar 2020 #164
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Blue_Tires Mar 2020 #176
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Tien1985 Mar 2020 #180
betsuni Mar 2020 #181
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Perseus Mar 2020 #189

Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:36 AM

1. Yes... This is the kind of language that seems self-defeating to me.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:41 AM

7. I believe he says he's running against the establishment wing of the party,

 

not the party itself.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:44 AM

10. The "establishment wing" of the party is a substantial and imporant part of the party

 

We're the ones who have been here for decades fighting for and building this party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:48 AM

16. Both wings are important. And to some extent, both are running against each other.

 

If Biden (Klobuchar, Buttigieg) can run against "revolutionary ideas", those who "want to start from scratch," and so forth, that's really not very different from Sanders saying he's running against the establishment wing. He just came up with a campaign catchphrase for it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:52 AM

18. Two different things

 

Running against ideas they think are faulty is very different that attacking an entire segment of the party as corrupt, beholden to special interests, and out to get a particular candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:43 AM

51. Yes!

 

It’s an ad-hominem attack. It’s an attack on people and not the issues.

Campaign-wise, it sometimes works. But never does it enlighten voters on who is better qualified.

And in the crudest of all analyses of ad-hominem conflicts, the more physically-attractive person has the advantage. Which is why it worked for Trump and not for Sanders—superficial people fell for the suit and red tie wardrobe.

Ad hominem is not a strategy that will work for Sanders—it is too superficial.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #51)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:49 AM

110. re: "It's an ad-hominem attack. It's an attack on people and not the issues."

 

I disagree. It is more an attack on the system.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #110)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:14 PM

131. No.

 

He's attacking an entire segment of the party. He's not attacking the system.

He likes the system just fine. That's why he's using it to run for president. So far it's been working for him. The minute it no longer works for him, he'll attack it, too. But for now, he's going after the people he claims aren't doing what he wants to do the way he wants to do it - in other words, anyone who isn't on Team Bernie.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:38 AM

102. But Sanders and his aggressive populist following

 

consider EVERYONE not with them as "the establishment" they want to destroy. Their hostility extends to ALL who don't support their leadership, not just those whom our Democratic majorities have elected to serve us in our party establishment.

That contempt and genuinely dangerous group antagonism toward all Democrats not with them is actually a reflection of the same attitudes their chosen leader has revealed all his life. Sanders' official rhetoric carefully limits his "establishment" attacks to Democrats in office, sensibly avoiding overtly insulting the voters he needs, although covertly he does constantly. (No, Democrats aren't just as bad as Republicans, and no, Democrats don't "do it too."

But if Sanders is not dumb enough to attack Democratic voters directly on the stump, millions of his antagonistic, pumped-up populist followers are just that dumb, and self indulgent. Those on-line mobs are revealing what his movement really is by attacking all not with them with the verbal brushes they have to settle for for now. And by promising it won't always be just verbal noise, that we can't stop them from marching right over us and imposing their "agenda" on us.

Well, I'm proud to be one of the "gelatinous 100 year olds" who support Biden. That really shouldn't strike me as preferable to any of the other nasty insults they throw our way, but I just got a kick out of it. Not the ruthless, lawless, authoritarian smashing us out of their way part, though.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:21 AM

85. Time for Unity

 

In any primary campaign, candidates will necessarily make a case to voters by distinguishing themselves from the rest of the field. Although I have become a strong and enthusiastic supporter of Elizabeth Warren, pragmatism becomes the only winning strategy when we move into the general election. At the convention, a candidate will be nominated, somehow. Let's ignore the how. If the nomination comes down to Sanders or Biden then the most important person here will be the loser. If Sanders loses, his moment of leadership will be to make it clear to his supporters that it is vital for them to continue the fight by backing Biden and fighting hard for his election. Similarly, if Biden loses, he must make it absolutely clear that Sanders, democratic socialist, is our candidate, and, again, we need everyone to get on board.

I am far closer in political philosophy to Sanders than Biden but this distance shrinks to nothing compared to the difference between either of these two (or our other candidates) and the menace to the world who sits in the White House now.

I can only add that sowing seeds of internecine resentment within the Democratic base benefits Russia and can only serve to advance the world towards another four years of unimaginable malice.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:25 AM

90. defending a half truth

 

Sanders knows what has been wrong with the Democratic party leadership, and that is what he is running against. Contrary to the sensationalist headline he is not running against the party. Sanders has seen the same problems since he took Office and those problems pretty much let Bush and Trump get elected. The problem is the leadership is spineless. Fearful of taking a principled stand lest they may lose votes. The reason we have Trump is directly due to that - instead of exposing Trump for what he is, the Leadership took a milk toast campaign approach. So quityerbullcaca. You are defending these failures.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to azureblue (Reply #90)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:10 PM

127. Of he's truly running against the leadership, he should say "leadership."

 

That's not what he's saying because that's not what he means.

You can parse it all you want, but we can see exactly what he's doing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #127)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 09:47 AM

190. Don't you think the population of Democrats in DU, and others are part of the Democratic party?

 

In my view you have to include all of us because if you read posts in DU, including yours, you find that he is in fact fighting the Democratic party. The Democratic party is not only made up of the establishment, the leadership, it has to include the voters, without the voters there is no Democratic party.

You can also parse it all you want, but the reality is that we are all the Democratic party, and just read the posts in DU, he is running against a lot of other candidate supporters who every day try to bash Bernie, it is the reality.

But as I have said before, it is time for unity, in my view Biden has already won the nomination, whether he gets the 1991 delegates of not, the super delegates will finish the job, so now lets rally behind Biden, lets bring Bernie's supporters to support Biden, and let us stop the constant bickering which only fuels the republicans.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:47 AM

15. I am not sure what that even is. As far as I can tell it's a made up label

 

No one holds the title "establishment wing" nor is there any office or branch indicating such.

As best I can tell:

establishment = the actual formal party
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:54 AM

20. It may be made up, but he's referring to those who don't want major change to

 

the way the party has done things. Largely in reference to the influence of big money interests, I believe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:11 PM

128. That's not what he's referring to

 

He's talking about anyone who doesn't want to do what he wants to do the way he wants to do it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:24 PM

135. nope - that isn't his big gripe...

 

that is a fundamental precept of his argument... the establishment only has the positions that it has BECAUSE it is funded by the corporate overlords (the infamous them).

But what he wants instead is a socialist / communist ( down to the central planning ) remake of the United States. He wants workers to vote on company activities... he want social, economic, racial, and environmental "justice" (WTF does that even mean).

And he is selling this concept to people who have never even witnessed such attempts in the past (and, apparently, do not read history books).

Corporate America is not perfect, far from it... neither is capitalism, but I, for one, prefer it to complete socialist take over of the means of production.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #135)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:58 PM

141. re: " I, for one, prefer it to complete socialist take over of the means of production."

 

Seriously? You think that's what Sanders is aiming for?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #141)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:50 PM

156. yes... look at his history

 

and the positions of some of the organizations that support him.

When they say "economic justice", do you think that stops at $15/hour minimum wage?

The programs that he outlines, free tuition, M4A, free housing, etc... do you really believe that they are going to get the trillions of dollars for those ($50T maybe) by simply taxing billionaires. I've seen them call for the return of 90% federal tax rate... And that won't be on just people that make $1 M or more in income... to raise the amounts we are talking about means everyone that makes more than $100K.

And, btw, the billionaires will NEVER pay the tax... not as long as there are other places to live on the planet. And they hire the very smartest people on the planet to make sure of this.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #156)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:54 PM

158. You've said nothing there about the means of production thing. (n/t)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:48 PM

154. The Establishment is

 

The DNC. Who changed the rules so Sanders could run?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #154)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 06:39 PM

175. What rules are you talking about? n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:50 PM

167. It's like 'Deep State".

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:51 AM

17. Oh, honey! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:03 AM

30. It only makes sense if your strategy is divide and conquer

 

And clearly Democrats across the spectrum are seeing that cynical trumpian strategy for what it is and are firmly saying "no way bernay"
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:44 AM

52. That is the party!

 

Stop separating it from the whole. I was deemed an "establishment" democrat by a BS supporter the other day at school. She was all of about 20 years old. I have worked for 45 years to elect Democrats, locally, statewide and nationally. I will vote for the nominee of my party, but I will forever resent BS for doing this to the party I have loved and worked for all these years.

I see and "OK Boomer" coming but I could care less. I wear Boomer with pride unlike others of my age.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #52)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:53 AM

63. No, not necessarily..

 

There are, and always have been, different factions in Party, as in other political.partys.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #52)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:10 AM

82. Just say, "OK boomer's grand baby"

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:56 AM

66. I think he means the leadership of the party as well....

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:03 AM

76. He should say moderates

 

And he's progressive , which they did gang up on him but the moderates proved they couldn't protect us from Putin ,trump , and Moscow Mitch. Our last presidential election was rigged while they were in office failing to stop them. Progressives are a lot more aggressive to stop that from happening again, and more aggressive against corruption and consequences for it, while moderates will let them off trying to not hold people as accountable from giving them sweetheart deals.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to duforsure (Reply #76)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 08:24 AM

187. Progressives won't do crap to stop Russian interference

 

Progressives have been almost as bad as Republicans in denying that Russian interference was and is going on.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:47 AM

108. So now there is a wing of the party that are only Democrats when it's convienient?

 

Bernie's pulled this same schtick last time. After losing the primary what was first thing he did? He switched back to independent as fast as he could. Then he flip-flopped again when he decided to run again. And he expects the party to get obediently into line. What's with that? Why should dem put any trust in this guy? Certainly I'll vote for the guy if he ultimate is the nominee - anyone but Trump, right?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to thenelm1 (Reply #108)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:50 AM

111. re: "And he expects the party to get obediently into line."

 

No he doesn't. He expects (or at least hopes) that voters will make it happen.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:52 AM

112. OK, who exactly is in the "Establishment Wing?"

 

Anyone who doesn't back Sanders for the nomination?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #112)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:56 AM

115. Not that simple. I'd say Warren is not establishment wing, and does not back Sanders

 

(and did not endorse him in 2016). But she similarly rails against the influence of money on politics, Dem and Republican alike.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #115)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:06 PM

123. "House Democrats just passed a slate of significant reforms to get money out of politics"

 

That's even better than "railing" isn't it? So, I guess that means Pelosi and all House Dems are in the progressive wing.

Good to know.

House Democrats officially passed their massive anti-corruption and pro-democracy reform bill known as HR 1 on Friday. The bill passed on a final vote of 234 to 193.

The sweeping bill is aimed at getting money out of politics and increasing transparency around donors, cracking down on lobbying, and expanding voting rights for Americans by implementing provisions like automatic voter registration.

As they passed the bill that was their first priority of the year, Democrats were in a celebratory mood.

“HR 1 restores the people’s faith that government works for the public interest, the people’s interest, not the special interest,” said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. “It is fundamental to our democracy that people believe that actions taken here will be in their interest. That is what this legislation will help to restore.”


https://www.vox.com/2019/3/8/18253609/hr-1-pelosi-house-democrats-anti-corruption-mcconnell
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #123)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 06:59 PM

178. There are differences in the details. He talks about things like...

 

...insurance and pharmaceutical companies having too much influence on the healthcare policies, for example.

People and policies don't always fall into neat categories, on either side of a divide. I think you have to look at the term as what it really is... political rhetoric. Which works for him as a short-hand for a theme of his campaign. (Or at least, he believes it does.)
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #112)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:49 PM

155. Tom Perez

 

Keith Ellison.
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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:09 PM

145. But "establishment" is a stupid, blanket-all term that seems to be flung at anyone

 

who favors another candidate, or simply fails to voice wild enthusiasm for Sanders' every position.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:10 PM

146. Sanders considers all of the Party to be the establishment.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #146)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:17 PM

148. Nah. Warren? AOC?? Gabbard??? ;-) n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:55 PM

170. He appears to think that anyone who is not supporting him

 

is the establishment wing of the Democratic party. See his comments about South Carolina. Oh, and he also doesn't seem to think that black people are working class.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #170)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:58 PM

171. re: "doesn't seem to think that black people are working class"

 

It's a Venn diagram. Not all black people are working class, not all working class people are black, but there is an area of overlap.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 09:07 AM

188. Sanders is not a Democrat.

 

He uses the party when it helps him. Ever seen him working for Democratic candidates down ballot?? I have not but will welcome proof that I am wrong.

We see him as rigid, not open to working with others or listening to others.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:13 PM

130. It's poorly chosen language, IMO.

 

What Sanders is really opposed to is the dominance of corporate influence in all facets of the "establishment" Democratic Party. So Sanders would be wise to pull back on the "establishment" phrases and focus on the "corporate" aspects of political influence. "Establishment" phrasings imply that Corporatism and the "establishment" Democratic Party are inseparable. He needs to make a distinction between corporatism and the Party in order to exorcise the corporate demons.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:37 AM

2. Ditto.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:38 AM

3. The establishment? Are we back in the 1960's?

 

And they say Joe is out of touch.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Walleye (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:43 AM

9. Last primary season Bernie called Planned Parenthood the establishment. yes. he. did.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to riversedge (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:56 AM

24. He was talking about their political arm. And no, it's not the same thing...

 

Contributions to their health organization are tax deductible. Contributions to their political arm are not.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to riversedge (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 08:18 PM

179. Oh gawd, I'd forgotten he labeled Planned Parenthood as "The Establishment."

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Walleye (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:00 AM

27. Only about 55 years

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:39 AM

4. it should bother ALL of us Dems....

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:40 AM

5. Curious why he simply does not run as a democrat?

 

When I see (I)

Just means go with the flow to me.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Watchfoxheadexplodes (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:48 AM

109. He said the only party he would consider joining is the Working Families Party...

 

Who endorsed Warren this time around.

https://time.com/5681261/working-families-party-harassment/
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:41 AM

6. It bothers me.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:43 AM

8. He isn't a Democrat.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Enter Username Here (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:53 PM

157. I don't care much about labels.

 

It's not like he has a significant history of endorsing Republican candidates, contributing to Republican campaigns, or supporting Republican positions.

His ideals are consistent with those of the Dem party. He met the DNC's qualifications, as well as those of the Vermont Democratic party, to be eligible to be on the Democratic ticket. Good enough for me. If people don't like it, there are other candidates they can vote for.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:44 AM

11. In 2016 I voted for Bernie.

 

But after all his rhetoric this time I was disappointed but I honestly can't vote for him. That's why I early voted for Biden.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:44 AM

12. This is exactly why I can't support Bernie.

 

I am so tired of the name calling, put downs and interrupting by Bernie fans. Those behaviors are not what will heal out nation. I frankly want a nice, calm and composed President.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:46 AM

13. He's using the same playbook as trump did.

 

Look at what many of his younger supporters say about "remaking the system". Its like trumps "Drain the swamp".
It works with those who believe that no matter who wins, things stay the same
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:54 AM

21. Yup, they differ only by technique

 

Both prey upon the political middle which has always been the strength of America in numbers and resolve
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 04:58 PM

173. I disagree that the political middle is our strength.

 

I’m a proud progressive and, in my mind, it’s been liberals and progressives behind most of the good laws and bills in our history. Sure, the best progressives/liberals are able to bring the centrists around, that’s true. BTW, I don’t consider Biden, Obama, Hillary Clinton, Pelosi, etc. as centrists. They’re proud liberals. Joe Manchin is more like what I’d call a centrist.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #173)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 05:07 PM

174. Distribution of the political spectrum has traditionally been a bell-shaped curve

 

where most of the population is in the middle. This is where rule of law, normalcy, common sense, thrives. When you need to fight wars, these are the troops. Traditionally. The left doesn't like to fight, and you know few from the right will be there.

So we may be comparing apples and oranges a bit. Most liberal or progressive ideas that become enacted are in a range in the middle. The Progressive Era, 1900-1920s had many leftist ideas. Most were coopted by right of center civic leaders and corporations to defuse the Red Scare, and some became reality in modified form, such as corporations that cared for their employees with sick pay or unemployment insurance, nurses available on site, child care in a few places. Such policies were tested out many in NY state a decade or more prior to the New Deal.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 12:45 AM

183. I mean, slight other differences

 

Under trump we get camps on the border and cuts to all of our social safety net and judges like Kavinaugh

Under Sanders we get health care, education, and liberal judges.

But you know, totally the same aside from little things like those
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:51 AM

61. different sides

 

of the same coin, it seems sometimes

I know Bernie is well intentioned and am aligned with his ideas but his demeanor is offputting
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:46 AM

14. It bothers me too

 

Bernie is not a Dem. He's a user and will quit the party as soon as he can. If he gets the nomination, folks will vote for him, but do nothing to help him. trump will win for sure. Why was he ever allowed to crash the Democratic Party? His supporters don't care either.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:52 AM

19. I find it disturbing as well.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:55 AM

22. I think being opposed to the Democratic party is his main weakness in the primary

 

If he is the nominee, there will be people who can't get over that. That is a serious weakness in his candidacy. I personally I want the Democratic party to have much more aggressive progressivism, and I look to AOC as one of the most inspirational figures in recent years. But Sanders? I absolutely will support him in the general, but not in the primary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to bluedye33139 (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:57 AM

25. It's sort of a tough sell

 

"I think you are a bunch of corrupt politicians and I strongly oppose you. Now have a convention honoring me and throwing your support behind me"
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:01 AM

28. THIS!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:36 AM

48. Exactly!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:55 AM

23. me too.

 

if he governs the way he campaigns...
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 09:57 AM

26. Just a bit????

 

And Bernie doesn't mind freeloading on the party structure every four years... with... only I can solve it... and the
"Party elites" rhetoric. .Really... have had it with Bernie.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:03 AM

29. Bernie will use the Democratic Party, but will never be part of it. He's just too good for us.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:06 AM

31. It is an ironic fact that he needs to use the ' system' to beat the ' system'.

 

Bet it drives him crazy to know that his main resource for national exposure ( Dem party) is that which he seems to despise at times for being ‘ establishment’.

Does he describe Republicans differently , as in “vile” establishment”? Or some such? Or his intent just to disrupt and disparage Dems?



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:06 AM

32. I am so pissed at Sanders and his "war against the Democratic party". It is bullshit. I'll vote

 

for him WITHOUT hesitation if he is the nominee, because NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SUPREME COURT, but his constant attacks against the Democratic party only serves to divide Democrats and elect trump.

Very disappointed in his campaign


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:08 AM

33. He wants to be president of the congregation

 

but he isn't a member of the church.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:11 AM

34. Bern this mother down

 





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:11 AM

35. It's coming back to bite Bernie in the ass

 

Bernie is uniting the Demoratic Establishment against himself
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to njhoneybadger (Reply #35)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:13 AM

83. Agree

 

Bernie’s attacks are helping Biden
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:17 AM

36. It's what I've been saying here for years...

 

And had multiple posts removed for saying it. (And yes I'm pissed about it)

Sanders is NO Democrat. He just poses as one when he's gritting for DNC money. And that's what he's doing, grifting and conning.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to hurple (Reply #36)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:28 AM

43. The 2016 convention should have buried Sanders forever for any Democrat.

 

The real mistake that the "Moderate" Democrats made was not dealing with him for good when the poison he spread in 2016 led to Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to hurple (Reply #36)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:51 AM

60. Me too. Bern me once , shame on you. Bern me twice...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to hurple (Reply #36)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:36 AM

100. True Democrat

 

Bernie claims to be a Democrat.... yet last bid for President, he immediately went independent after he lost. Sorry if this may callus..... but if your Independent, then democratic, Independent, then democratic .... let me guess if he fails again for the highest office.... Independent again?

Track record is usually a good history of what to expect.....

Biden record of loyalty to the party is excellent.....

Bernie record is lack of Trust.....

We need TRUST in highest office in the land!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:19 AM

37. I suggest you vote accordingly, then.

 

Really.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:21 AM

38. Right? So he's running on the D ticket but disses they party

 

at the same time. I hope he gets trounced today.

It bothers me a lot, too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:24 AM

39. Something inherently wrong with Bernie's thought process

 

1) that you think you can actually get super progressive ideas translated to law in today's environment vs incrementally.

2) that you don't see the illogic in saying "the establishment is against you" when you have done nothing but exemplify that you "are against the establishment."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:26 AM

40. As a lifelong Democrat I share some distrust of the powers that be

 

I have serious concerns regarding the DNC and how we have many times snagged defeat from the jaws of victory.
I see a need to house clean and address issues that have created an exclusionary "establishment"; I do not want to use or hear opposition talking points to facilitate this needed change.
We are after all Democrats and as such we need to begin in each of our neighborhoods to push this reform until the DNC feels the pressure. The change needs to come from within and not from a candidate or movement that will not declare loyalty to the party at large.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to randr (Reply #40)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:28 AM

42. Who are the exclusionary "establishment"?

 

And name names please.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #42)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:37 AM

49. I know there are members of the DNC who have been there for a very long time

 

and we have little control over how they are chosen. I can not name names without wasting my time.
They would be who have been setting the "rules" for the debates, deciding who gets a share of the funds in each state, and have not in the last 60 years been able to rebrand the "socialism" tag used against our party and specific candidates who have called for reform. This has been effective in keeping the "wall street" money available and one reason we have not made real economic reform.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to randr (Reply #49)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:40 AM

50. So you can't name names

 

You just admitted that your argument is bogus.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #50)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:05 AM

77. Without any effort here is the first thing that showed up

 

The Democratic National Committee is the governing body for the United States Democratic Party. The committee coordinates strategy to support Democratic Party candidates throughout the country for local, state, and national office.
Key people:Tom Perez, (Chairman), Chris Korge, (Finance chair), Michael Tyler, (Spokesperson)

The history of control of the DNC is one story after another of insider back room manipulation.
The DNC, for very good reasons, had never in the past come out with a position on statehood. And Perez waited about six months after he won the DNC chair race, until he officially came out on behalf of statehood. And it was actually him coming out for statehood that was criticized by a former New York city councilwoman, who was then called a ”puta” in these Telegram text messages by Rosselló. And that was one of the key things that people were objecting to when those text messages came out. So, in a bizarre way, some of it goes back to this strange DNC coup that helped elevate Tom Perez to become DNC chair.
found on: alternet.org
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to randr (Reply #77)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:34 AM

98. The committee coordinates strategy to support Democratic Party candidates throughout the country

 

for local, state, and national office.

So you're saying that electing more Democrats is a bad thing?

"The history of control of the DNC is one story after another of insider back room manipulation." Really???
Your completely lacking in context example doesn't prove that. Nor does it prove this statement: "this strange DNC coup that helped elevate Tom Perez to become DNC chair."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #98)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:37 PM

150. Not what I am saying at all

 

It has long been thought by many that some reform of the DNC is in order.
When the system is open to accusations of rigging it presents a problem.
Just the inuendo from Trump, or worse from a leading Democratic candidate, leaves us in a situation where some of us won't vote for the eventual choice. Like last time with so may voting green or just sitting out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to randr (Reply #150)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:47 PM

153. It was long thought by many

 

that the Earth was flat. Didn’t make it true. And if some won’t vote for the eventual nominee, whomever that is, is just helping Trump and will be responsible for everything he does to destroy our country.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #153)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:55 PM

159. The problems I am pointing out in our house

 

are used by the opposition to plant seeds of doubt.
If you think the DNC is highly revered by all Democrats, you are mistaken. It is this distrust that needs to be addressed and remedied before we are no longer subject to the crap Trump is throwing out that happens to stick on some likely Democratic voters.
If we have a brokered convention the whole issue will be all about how the DNC has rigged it all for Biden. We are open to this suggestion only because of the miserable system of "super delegates" the DNC has decided for us.
I well remember watching the conventions years ago when real fights were played out in public, opposing sides yelling accusations back and forth, and in the end we were united behind the final choice.
I hope we return to a system where we have no doubt about how our choices are made.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to randr (Reply #159)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:16 PM

163. Never said the DNC was highly revered

 

just that you haven’t proven any of your allegations. And if they just talking points used by the opposition to plant seeds of doubt. Aren’t you just helping by repeating them as if they are the truth?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:27 AM

41. I am a lifelong and proud member of the Democratic Party

 

I do not like attacks on the party by someone who is not a member of the party
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:29 AM

44. The way I view it

 

He's running on the platform that the democrats ideally would/should be supporting. But over the years they've drifted further and further to the right, as the republican party has shifted further and further right and the DNC strategically tries to pick up the votes of those republicans who haven't made that further-right shift.

So I just look at votes more than labels, because to me the policies matter more than a name badge. The policies affect my actual life. If someone votes for or against fracking, or example, that affects the water coming out of my actual faucet. I don't care if they're wearing a red or blue tie or some other color entirely when they cast their vote. I just want my water to be clean.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:29 AM

45. Bernie isn't a Democrat....he will run third party with Gabbard a

 

A Russian Bot wet dream
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ashredux (Reply #45)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:19 PM

132. If being republican lite means being a Dem, no thank you. I want someone who

 

espouses the values the Dem party that FDR instilled. I AM A DEMOCRAT, not a repub lite.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:34 AM

46. I've participated in a lot of DU juries lately

 

Lots of contentiousness I guess. Many of them are 'Don't bash Democrats' and involve Bernie. My question is, is Bernie a Democrat? As you note he attacks the party fairly often. Since he's running for the Democratic nomination, I decided to consider him a Democrat for purposes of DU jury duty.

Bernie's really an outsider, which may be to his advantage. Part of the reason Trump won was that he ran as an outsider and there are still many people out there in the electorate that don't trust Washington and want an outsider. While they won't vote for Trump again they might vote for Bernie.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:36 AM

47. The party itself has two factions: Centrist and Progressive.

 

The mistake Bernie made was to use Establishment instead of Centrist. Growing up in the 60s and 70s, Establishment was a dirty word. It could be sour grapes over that whole SuperDelegate fiasco in '16, but he should act his age by now.

To unite the party for November, a Centrist (Biden/Bloomberg) should pick a Progressive as VP. The same is true if a Progressive (Bernie/Warren) wins the top of the ticket and picks a Centrist as their VP. For the rest of the party, it's a consolation prize, but at least we will have won the WH.

Bernie's other mistake is that, if he knew he was running this time, he's had 4 years to declare himself an actual Democrat--to make it easier on him as a candidate. We've had as many as 23 candidates this time, plus quite a few new Dems in Congress are progressive and aren't self-titled Independents.

A smart man like Bernie should have figured this out if someone like me has.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CaptYossarian (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:52 AM

62. Yes, a combo eould be good. Every political party has factions.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CaptYossarian (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:35 AM

99. centrist is not good either

 

Democrats are liberals. I consider Biden a liberal. Hillary and Obama too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to treestar (Reply #99)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:12 PM

129. Now we're getting into semantics (although I started it).

 

I look upon ideology the same as IQ. There's a dividing line down the center with the far left being progressive and the range between the line and the progressives being centrist. A better example would be a Bell Curve.

Everyone to the left of the line is liberal (open-minded), but the side is split into the 2 parts. The same is true for those who are on the opposite side. They're all conservative, but the centrists are toward the line more than the more radical right-wingers at the very end.

To me, a centrist conservative, AKA Compassionate Conservative, is one who applies an alcohol wipe before the radical one administers the lethal injection. Dubya was a centrist, while Cheney, "Darth Vader" to his colleagues, was more radical and further to the right.

Although I've always been a progressive, in my mind I don't believe centrist is a bad word. I think they're more cautious and don't take a lot of chances. No malice here--as long as they're Democrats.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:46 AM

53. When he says that, it reminds of "Deep State" a bit. Which bothers me.

 

I like Bernie, voted for him in the last primary but soon afterwards I heard a man who could not get beyond his soundbites. He would get agitated when pressed at times.

In the debate in Nevada, I think it was Buttigieg that pushed him to expand on how he was going to pay for his healthcare plan but it took quit a bit to nudge that out of him and he still couldn't explain the gap squarely. At least he started to expand on it but to me it was too little too late.

I don't see a person who is very adaptable and moveable. If he is the nominee I will vote for him and I will root for him to succeed. He has some good ideas but he is alienating a part of the party and has been pretty consistent on making the Democratic party seem like some sort of boogeyman that he alone can fix. He can't do it alone. I also wonder if his recent heart attack has made him desperate to get the Presidency. I lost my dad and step-dad to heart failure fairly shortly after they each had heart surgeries within the same year. My dad spent his time preparing, getting things in order and my step-dad went wild trying to upend everything and figure out some lasting legacy in a few desperate attempts that had us on edge (don't get me wrong, he was a wonderful step-father and I loved him dearly but there was some concern about his state of mind. He knew more about his health than we did. We only learned after he passed that he was told he had congestive heart failure and he hid that from us). He ended up not doing anything to prepare and left a hot mess. What I'm trying to say is that Bernie might be even more difficult to work with than previously thought and getting his ideas implemented might be an uphill climb considering his relationship with the Democrats, past and present.

I don't know if that would be the case with Bernie obviously...but his momentum should be more uniting at this point. Unfortunately I see it getting even more divisive of late.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:47 AM

54. 2016 Playbook; Wash, Rinse, Repeat

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:48 AM

55. He is referring to the neoliberal, Third Way, Super Pac wing n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AverageJoe (Reply #55)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:50 AM

59. Super PACs were literally invented by the AFL-CIO. So, is that who he means? (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Recursion (Reply #59)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:55 AM

65. He means those Democrats who are beholden to corporate money

 

And whose policies he considers detrimental to the average American. I could list a bunch of such policies put forth by a bunch of people over the years, but I suspect that would violate the rules.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AverageJoe (Reply #65)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:57 AM

68. Corporations can't donate to candidates. Neither can Super PACs

 

Not sure how either one is supposed to make a candidate "beholden".
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Recursion (Reply #68)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:02 AM

72. Gosh, you're right!

 

No politician has ever been beholden to corporate money. What was I thinking?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AverageJoe (Reply #72)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:38 AM

103. Well, I mean, yes, I am. There's no such thing as "corporate money" in elections

 

Campaigns can't accept it. Corporations can't give it. It's just not how the system works.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Recursion (Reply #103)


Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:49 AM

56. Tired of his nonsense about Bullionaires buying this election.......

 

Hate to break it to you Bernie but neither Styer or Bloomberg have ever sent me a PENNY. So...Bernie says I'm so stupid that like a lemming I MUST vote for whoever has the most money?!?!

If Sanders wins the nomination then get ready for another FOUR YEARS of Trump. Sanders will get my vote but it won't matter.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:50 AM

57. He's running against the ESTABLISHMENT WING of the Party,

 

not the Party itself -- Don't be misleading.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to whathehell (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:56 AM

67. There is no "establishment wing" There is no designation or title as such

 

It's a made-up term
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #67)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:06 AM

78. Yes there is, and it needs no formal designation to be real

 

- no more so than "Blue dog", "Yellow dog", "Moderate", "Liberal" or "Conservative " Democrat.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to whathehell (Reply #78)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:27 AM

91. So as a lifelong Democrat am I part of that "establishment"?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #91)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:56 PM

139. Only you can answer that..

 

Go beyond the label and figure out what he actually means by
the term...It has nothing to do, imo, with how long you've been voting Democratic.




If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to whathehell (Reply #139)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:07 PM

144. As far as I can tell, "the Democratic establishment" and "the Democratic party" in interchangeable

 

in the ways he uses it
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #144)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 04:19 PM

172. I think that's the way you.choose to see it..

 

Have a nice one.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to whathehell (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:32 AM

96. even so, why would he expect to win a nomination for a national office

 

without that wing or at least some of it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to treestar (Reply #96)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:57 PM

140. Who says he doesn't?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:50 AM

58. Just in case no one has already said this, but...

 

Okay boomer...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:53 AM

64. no one is more establishment than bernie sanders ..16 years as a rep...and voted a senator in 2006

 

and has been a senator ever since...last elected as a senator in 2018.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:58 AM

69. BS could drop off the earth today and I would not care.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:58 AM

70. Prepare for it to happen at the Convention, regardless whether Sanders wins the nomination or not.

 

The worst elements of his following have (and continue to show) no class, even in victory.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:58 AM

71. A good time to re-evaluate "our" party.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mahannah (Reply #71)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:33 AM

97. How is it a good time?

 

also if my home's kitchen is getting shabby I renovate the kitchen, I don't say my house sucks and raze it to the ground
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:02 AM

73. I am a life long Democrat and I am a bit disturbed that

 

My party is getting so bent out of shape because Bernie is winning. Biden does not poll well against Trump. A conservative Democrat will not bring out the enthusiastic liberal voters.

Let's pray if Biden is the Dem candidate, he has a better campaign then when he ran against Obama. He barely got 1% last time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #73)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:15 AM

84. I am a fellow life long Democrat

 

And I completely agree with you. If Biden becomes the nominee, I hope he finds a way to win.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:03 AM

74. How in the world is that man ever going to lead establishment Dems in congress?

 

A leader needs to be likeable, congenial, persuasive, open-minded, tolerant, patient, and DISCIPLINED!!! Does that sound liked Bernie?
I don't think so.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to vlyons (Reply #74)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:51 PM

168. 1000

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:03 AM

75. I still don't see how Bernie is NOT part of the "establishment" he claims to despise.

 

Since 1991 he’s been solidly ensconced in the House and then the Senate. Til this very day. That’s almost 30 years of elected office on Capitol Hill.

How does that not qualify as part of the “dreaded” “establishment”?

And in all that time, he’s led the fight to rename - what? Two post offices? wow...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:07 AM

79. Party before country, huh?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #79)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:30 AM

95. how is that different than saying ideology before Country? What is the difference between loyalty to

 

ideology and loyalty to party?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #95)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:03 PM

142. The "ideology" is fairness for everyone.

 

Yes, that's a hell of a lot better place for one's loyalty to go.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #142)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:06 PM

143. I remember someone said that ideology is like giving the answer before the question is asked

 

I never liked having anything or anyone tell me how to think and that is exactly what ideology does.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:08 AM

80. Sanders is about as 'establishment' as they come

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #80)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:25 AM

89. I don't think so

 

A orange is not an apple just because they are both fruits.

Sanders has been fighting against corporate interests in politics all his life, the establishment has been molded and controlled by those interests.

I would suggest by establishment, you should think of as party insiders, who work for the interest of the party donor class.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dualboy24 (Reply #89)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:07 PM

124. He use the Democrat yes you suits him

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #124)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:17 PM

149. What do you mean?

 

I don't understand your comment.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:09 AM

81. +1,000,000 nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:21 AM

86. At some of his rallies he points to the press people in the back of the room and calls them:

 

"the media establishment".

Sound familiar?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:22 AM

87. Yes, "Me Too" He's like the guy who needs a ride, so you offer to let him ride with you.

 

All the way along the ride he complains about your driving, dictates the route, makes fun of your car and wants to control the radio. When you and the other passengers finally have enough of the jerk, you tell him to shut up or get out. He then complains to everyone what a terrible person you are and how he was abused.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:23 AM

88. You're doing politics wrong.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #88)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:28 AM

93. How so?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #93)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:41 AM

105. Elected officials aren't rock stars.

 

You shouldn't be so enamored with them that you get upset when someone questions their priorities.

You, me, everyone else here—we are the Democratic Party. The candidates work for us, and if anyone is owing loyalty, it's them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #105)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:44 AM

107. My elected officials are not rock stars, but they are not terrible corrupt people either

 

They are what every political party is, not perfect. It's the nature of people and politics. If anyone suggests you can eliminate that, they are selling you snake oil
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:28 AM

92. I'm with you.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:29 AM

94. I don't like it either

 

I don't see how he expects to be nominated by Democrats when he does that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)


Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:40 AM

104. I established myself as a Democrat decades ago, when I first voted.

 


I guess that makes me part of "the establishment."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:41 AM

106. We're not going to lay down & let him take it either.

 

He has a big foght on his hands.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:55 AM

113. I understand that view but.....

 

In all fairness, we should have not allowed him to run for the democratic nomination to begin with. It is too late to exclude him now.
I don’t think Bernie will pull in the moderates, minorities and never Trumpers as is needed, in a manner that Biden can.
I understand that poles show differently but there is a faction that is supporting Bernie now that will not support him if he wins the nomination, like Trump for example.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:56 AM

114. I'm a life long Democrat also. My first vote was in 1968. My biggest concern is getting rid of

 

Trump. But I think you might be misinterpreting Bernie's rhetoric? What I have seen over the last 50 years is the Democratic Party moving further to the right, even as the population has moved further to the left. We (the Dem Party) have almost become Republican Lite, taken a few crumbs from the GOP and called it a win and seen the Judicial, the Congress, and the SCOTUS move further and further to the right - now even the Fed has become politicized. These are not victories for the Democratic Party. The US has not been a friendly power to the rest of the world - it seems we are more interested in Empire than being a beacon of HOPE and that is sad.

With the Citizens United ruling by a right-wing SCOTUS you cannot discount the influence of $$$ from our elections. Most working people are fed up with this system, especially young people who will inherit this mess long after us old folks are gone - can you blame them for not wanting someone to fight for them? to disrupt the greed and unfairness of the system? to want a revolution?

Will compromise and the status quo mean we will fight for Climate Change - nope, for a good and affordable education - nope, to be able to afford decent housing without struggling, nope.

They and I are "sick and tired" of being "sick and tired".

I know who I would elect to best represent by interests - Bernie or Elizabeth. My hesitation is only the FEAR that it might mean another 4 years of the imbecile we now have. I have to face the facts that most "white folks" are voting for racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, and just pain nastiness and I don't know how to fight it other than voice my opinion and VOTE.

What a friggin mess.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to walkingman (Reply #114)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:04 PM

121. THANK YOU! It is alarming how many people on this board

 

seem to have completely forgotten Wellstone's warning.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:59 AM

116. I'm not a bit disturbed :sarcasm:

 

As A Democrat since 1976, I'm downright pissed off. How dare he?!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:00 PM

117. Why is Sanders even allowed on the ballot in Democratic Primaries??

 

He's not a Democrat, he often trashes the party AND he's a self-described socialist.

WTF?? Let him run as a whatever, I really couldn't care less. But as a Democrat??? Shouldn't happen.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:01 PM

118. + agree that it bothers me as well. Bernie is a registered Independent - why doesn't he run on

 

that ticket. He runs on the Democratic ticket for his own self interest as he gets WAY MORE coverage, visibility, televised debates, etc. from the Dems than he would running as Independent.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:03 PM

120. I really feel like this country is not ready for a

 

new revolution. First things first... clear Trump from the White House, Secondly restore the Rule of Law, and put back the things Trump dumped. Maybe have this revolution sometime in the near future..
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #120)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:07 PM

125. The revolution is evolution

 

Just like Gay Marriage - it took many baby steps until it was a fact. yes, there are Republican luddites who are against it, but it is here.

What I want i someone who is smart enough to plant those seeds, and lay the ground work.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:04 PM

122. Not sure why Bernie can't find his progressive roots in the Democratic Party

 

All he has to do is harken back to the days of FDR. If you push all of the 1960 "establishment" rhetoric to the side, all things substantial that he is proposing was in line with FDR's New Deal era politics.

Today's Tennessee Valley Electrification is Green Energy; CCC Era is infrastructure investment; GI Bill is Affordable Education; Medicare for All is a combination of Medicare and Social Security.

My biggest issue is his avoidance of association with this.

I voted for Elizabeth because of this - she doesn't run away - in fact she ran to the Democratic Party for these ideals when she saw the Republican Party of her youth for what it was - a bunch of corporate hacks. I just think Joe is not ambitious enough.

But unlike some Bernie Bros (who may be Twitter trolls), who I've read online, I will vote for Bernie if he wins. I will vote for Biden if he wins, I will vote for the Democrat who wins.

L-

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:08 PM

126. This is normal politics

 

Don't let the trolls and a few extreme Bernie fans fracture the party.

Bernie will support Biden if Biden wins and Biden will support Bernie if he does. Simple as that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #126)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:50 PM

138. What other Democrats has publicly stated they are running against the Democratic establishment?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #138)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:56 PM

160. You don't think other candidates have run as outsiders?

 

Obama didn't run against the establishment in 2008?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #160)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:28 PM

165. I think there is a strong and distinct difference between running as an "outsider" and running

 

against the Democratic party. I never once heard Obama saying he was running against the Democrats and I don't recall him ever being disparaging to the Democrats. The whole "I am running against the Democratic establishment" seems to be uniquely Bernie
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #126)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:41 PM

151. You mean the way he did in 2016?

 

That was such a lackluster support of Clinton, he refused to stop he followers at the convention from booing other Democrats, he just sat and sneered, I was there I saw it live and in color.

He won't back Biden, he will say so once, go and change his party affiliation and drop off the map. I liked him prior to the convention, that display of bully behavior did me in.

I will vote for him, it will require holding my nose, but I will if he is the nominee. I heartily doubt if a majority of his young followers will do the same if it is Biden.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:22 PM

133. I'm more than a bit disturbed. '

 

I am a LOT disturbed that he is not even a Dem, is allowed to run as a Dem, and then trashes the party.

He gains from association with us. He woukd not have party resources like the primary debates and voters if he ran alone as an independent.

Talk about biting the hand thst feeds you.

His anti Dem stance should be a serious consideration if there is a brokered convention.

And CHANGE THE RULES for future campaigns to exclude non members from running as a member.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:24 PM

134. I do NOT like it either.

 

Not at all. . . . This is how we LOSE.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:28 PM

136. I worry...

 

About Bernie winning the nomination, because I don't think he can beat Trump. I also worry about Bernie LOSING the nomination and not backing the eventual nominee. He is not a member of the Democratic Party; if he goes rogue and decides to run as an independent, it's over.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:37 PM

137. Stop Sanders

 

Bernie wouldn't be running against the Democratic Party if the the Democratic Party wasn't trying anything & everything to stop him.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/31/dnc-superdelegates-110083

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/democrats-are-ready-to-blow-up-the-party-to-stop-sanders/

Just Google search "Democratic Party Stop Sanders" and look at the number of results.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Billsmile (Reply #137)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:10 PM

147. What has Bernie Sanders done for my party?

 

Particularly before and after he comes around every 4 years wanting us to support his run for President.

Look if everyone took Bernie's position of just take take take, from the Democratic party there would be no party in place to oppose Trump and the Republicans. A party needs people who support it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 01:44 PM

152. It bothers me, too

 

Let's win this election, Senate majority, and keep the House and then RBG can finally retire. One more, and then we can revisit the Citizen's United decision and hopefully get shady money out of politics at long last.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:00 PM

161. I am disturbed that Joe is open to

 

A republican VP. Why aren’t the Joe fans upset with Bernie not upset over that?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to marlakay (Reply #161)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:52 PM

169. Oh good lord; not this again. He made a facetious response to a "gotcha" question

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:01 PM

162. Agreed. Bernie Is Being a Hypocrite.

 

He calls for unity, then does his best to divide.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:26 PM

164. I am a life long Democrat. I'm a bit disturbed that my party is running against Sanders

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 02:33 PM

166. And When Warren Just Said Much The Same?

 

What then?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 06:44 PM

176. +1000

 

And like I said, Berners don't want to merely join the show, they want to hijack it into some kind of pirate broadcast...

For months(!) Sanders' most vocal and high-profile supporters have been openly talking on Twitter about "purging" the moderates and chopping off heads (I'm not making this up)... HINT: Anybody who doesn't support Sanders is a "moderate" to them.

Some Johnny-come-lately is going to tell me my business and purge me out of my own goddamned party? They'd better have their fingers on both fucking triggers when they come at me...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 06:53 PM

177. It's

 

our own fault. We let a guy without a D behind his name run in our primary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 08:23 PM

180. I am also a life long Democrat

 

But I believe in strident and consistent reflection and criticism as a means of keeping the values of the party on track, so I have no issue with Sanders on that score. I tend to feel like people treat political parties like baseball teams in their devotion and that is troubling to me. Ultimately, Warren is my choice, but I have little trouble with anyone demanding the best of our party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 08:26 PM

181. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2020, 11:49 PM

182. I am a lifelong Democrat.

 

it bothers me that we have completely abandoned Labor in our slide over30 years onto neoliberalism. so there’s that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 03:54 AM

184. An old phrase that now applies to Bernie:

 

"pushy Jew".

Just "con man" applies to the current resident of the White House.:

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:41 AM

185. I've been pissed about that for awhile now

 

I've been a democrat all of my life & my parents have been democrats as long as I can remember.

It annoys me that Bernie only calls himself a dem every 4 years, when it benefits him in an election! And while doing this, he criticizes the democratic party! Like you said, our party is not perfect but if we do have criticism of our party, it would be better received if it were said by an actual democrat!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to subana (Reply #185)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 09:48 AM

191. Well said

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #191)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 11:56 AM

192. thanks!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:57 AM

186. Bernie's effort to divide the party and carve a chunk off for himself

 

is faltering. He's like a relative who moves into the den and parties on the weekend. You want to help him right his ship but he's disrupting your household.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RAB910 (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 09:27 AM

189. Sometimes we need to get our brain into a blank state, then move to the other side

 

In this case you would become Bernie, or one of his supporters, then you start reading everything that is said against Bernie and his supporters in DU, then you start reading the New York Times articles with titles such as "Democrats and the DNC are trying to find ways to derail Bernie Sanders", "Democrats are nervous at the rise of Bernie and the possibilities of he winning the nomination"...None of these headlines are verbatim, but you get the idea.

Ok, I think it is fair that I find the actual articles:

1. "‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum"
[link:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html|

2. "Why Swing-District Democrats Don’t Want Bernie Sanders as the Nominee"
[link:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/opinion/bernie-sanders-democrats.html|

And there are more, you can find them very easily. The Washington Post also has a few.

So, as I was saying...You read all these articles, and as a Bernie supporter (don't forget, you moved to Bernie's side, you may even be pretending to be Bernie), and the only conclusion you can come up with is that the Democratic establishment doesn't want you, I mean, the titles say it, its not me saying it, please don't blame me for it. So you read the articles and you find out that Democrats have told the reporters that in fact, they are trying to find ways to derail Bernie's current success, so now you become a little upset and say "I am fighting against the Democratic party, they want me out, to not win the nomination.", mind you that I don't know what Bernie said in his head, those are my words, but I have to think that something like that popped-up.

How about if we stop hiding our heads in the sand and face reality? The truth is plain to see, it is not the Bernie supporters doing or saying it, it is the Democratic Establishment saying it and doing it.

Our goal now needs to be to stop Bashing Sanders and his supporters, we need to bring them 100% to the side of Biden who I am convinced will get the nomination, whether he gets the 1991 delegates or we go to the convention, the "super delegates" will make sure Biden is the nominee. So now you got your wish, stop bashing, playing victim, start uniting, without full unity we are toast, we not only have to fight the GOP propaganda machine, but the GOP cheating, the Russian hacking, and who knows what else.

It would do us all good to accept reality of what has and continues to transpire in this crazy pseudo Electoral College that is the Democratic party process to elect a nominee, it is nothing but the status quo at work, and we are just there for the ride, never trying to change what we know, as long as "our team" wins we don't care what happens. To some, deep in their minds and hearts, we all know that what is going on is wrong, but the old "a means to an end" seems to prevail.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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