HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » Democratic Primaries (Forum) » At the convention, can ca...
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 04:59 PM

 

At the convention, can candidates who are no longer running simply reassign their delegates?

To the person they endorsed?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

19 replies, 744 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply At the convention, can candidates who are no longer running simply reassign their delegates? (Original post)
Goodheart Mar 2020 OP
unblock Mar 2020 #1
Jersey Devil Mar 2020 #2
unblock Mar 2020 #4
Jersey Devil Mar 2020 #6
unblock Mar 2020 #3
Goodheart Mar 2020 #5
unblock Mar 2020 #7
Gothmog Mar 2020 #12
Gothmog Mar 2020 #11
NurseJackie Mar 2020 #16
unblock Mar 2020 #17
Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #8
Gothmog Mar 2020 #10
Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #13
unblock Mar 2020 #15
Gothmog Mar 2020 #18
unblock Mar 2020 #19
Gothmog Mar 2020 #9
Goodheart Mar 2020 #14

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:09 PM

1. my understanding is that the delegates can technically vote however they please

 

they are chosen based on loyalty to the candidate and are expected to be loyal to the candidate.

if the candidate drops out at any point, they will often urge their delegates to vote for some particular other candidate. most of those delegates do as their candidate asks, but often not all of them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:13 PM

2. Not on the first ballot if they have "suspended" their campaign rather

 

than just dropped out. From the 2nd ballot on the delegates can vote for whoever they want. I am sure, however, that a great deal of pressure can be brought on them to vote as a block in order to leverage influence for their state.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:33 PM

4. the first-ballot restriction applies only to a handful of states

 

https://ballotpedia.org/Democratic_delegate_rules,_2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:38 PM

6. hmm, thanks for the correction - nt

 

x
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:32 PM

3. hey, look, actual rules:

 

the short answer is they can technically vote however they want, but should in good conscience follow the sentiments of the candidate they are pledged to.

however, 12 states have more specific laws about this.


https://ballotpedia.org/Democratic_delegate_rules,_2020

The Delegate Selection Rules for the 2020 Democratic National Convention include two provisions regarding the binding of delegates to the candidates they supported at the time of their selection.[11]

“ No delegate at any level of the delegate selection process shall be mandated by law or Party rule to vote contrary to that person’s presidential choice as expressed at the time the delegate is elected.[13] ”
—Rule 13.I (p. 14)[11]
“ Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.[13] ”
—Rule 13.J (p. 14)[11]

Beyond this, the Delegate Selection Rules do not directly address how a candidate's withdrawal from the race before the convention affects the delegates pledged to that candidate. However, in 12 states, statutes establish provisions for the release of delegates either upon a candidate's withdrawal or after a specific number of ballots have been taken at the national convention. The table below identifies these states. In the column titled "Candidate withdrawal or release provision," a "yes" indicates that the statute allows for the release of pledged delegates either upon a candidate's withdrawal or at the explicit direction of the candidate. In the column titled "Multiple ballot provision," a "yes" indicates that the statute allows for the release of a pledged delegate after a specific number of ballots have been taken at the convention (the number in parentheses indicates the ballot on which the delegates would be released). The full text of relevant statutes and their citations are also provided.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:36 PM

5. Thanks! So, the short answer is "no". :)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:39 PM

7. the short answer is "sorta"

 

usually most of the delegates do what their candidate asks. but they're not required to follow that request.

that said, if the candidate doubts a delegate's loyalty, they can replace them before the convention.

and then there are the few states that have restrictions on the first ballot or two. but after that they're free.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:09 PM

12. The people who are vetted and approved by a campaign tend to be hard core types

 

Normally it takes years of hard work to be selected to a national convention and the type of hard core democrats who survive the vetting process are not going to do anything that will hurt the party. These people will have to deal with their fellow democrats when they come back from the convention.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:06 PM

11. Campaigns and candidates can protect themselves by vetting their delegates

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:06 PM

16. Could there be such a thing as a "faithless delegate" the same way we had "faithless electors" ...

 

Could there be such a thing as a "faithless delegate" the same way we had "faithless electors" in the Electoral College.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NurseJackie (Reply #16)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:08 PM

17. Yes. And this does happen from time to time

 

But rarely, and pretty much only when it doesn't affect the outcome.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:41 PM

8. No they can't

 

They can release their delegates from their first ballot pledge and recommend who to vote for. However, every released delegate will be free to vote for whom ever they want.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:05 PM

10. All delegates including pledged delegates can vote for anyone they fell like voting for

 

There is no binding first or other ballot pledge.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:09 PM

13. That's true

 

but it’s unlikely any delegates would break their pledge.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:03 PM

15. True for most states, but not all. So the link in reply #3.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:09 PM

18. It is not clear that these laws are enforceable in that they are contrary to DNC rules

 

I personally have no issue with there being a first ballot pledge that is enforceable so long as it is uniform. It is my understanding the RNC may have such a pledge

As a practical matter if a delegate rebels and announce that they are voting for a different candidate, the candidate may be able to remove and replace that delegate
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:25 PM

19. not clear to me why dnc rules would carry more weight than state law

 

but in any event, these state laws don't appear to violate dnc rules. if a state had a law that *prevented*, say, a sanders delegate from voting for sanders, well, sure, that would be certainly violate dnc rules. but to require it on the first ballot, i don't see whay dnc rule that violates any way.

as to enforceability, it would certainly take a remarkably series of events for it to even come to court. not only would a delegate from one of those state have to break the pledge, but it would have to sway the nomination, otherwise there's no damage.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:04 PM

9. All candidates including withdrawn candidates have absolute approval rights over pledged delegates

 

I was a Clinton delegate to the 2016 convention and I had fun reading up on the rules. All delegates are free to vote for anyone they want at the convention and this includes so-called pledged delegates or super delegates (PLEO and automatic delegates). Candidates can protect themselves by vetting delegates. Each candidate has absolute approval right over their pledged delegates. I know that I was vetted and I helped vet other Clinton delegates. At the Texas state convention in 2016, the sanders campaign removed a delegate elected by his senate district caucus because that young man would not tell a sanders campaign official that he hated Clinton. That young man was removed but got to attended the national convention as a guest of the state party.

The candidates who have withdrawn still get to approve and vet their delegates. That means that these candidates should work with the Biden campaign to select delegates who agree with that candidates choices. This means selecting hard core/real democrats who are actual members of the Democratic Party and who will do what is best for the party. I have been working with my county and state party for a very long time which is how I got elected as a delegate. Normally it takes years of hard work inside the party to qualify as a national delegate. These people are not going to do something that is against the best interests of the party.

At the Philadelphia convention, I was cursed at, called some nasty names and screamed at by sanders delegates in order to try to convince me to change my vote. I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders.



sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control

Yelling at a lawyer is a waste of time and effort. None of the other Clinton delegates changed their votes because these people were long time members of the party and would not do anything to hurt the party. Again, the delegates who are vetted tend to be hard core Democrats who have worked for years inside the party and these Democrats are not going to flip easily or do something that they consider to NOT be in the best interest of the party.

I suspect that the Biden campaign will be taking steps to vet or help the withdrawned candidates vet their delegates. I am active on Lawyers for Biden and will be making some suggestions here later.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:09 PM

14. Very interesting post. Thanks!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread