Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumLike many women, I'm deeply disappointed Warren's out of the race. I only wish
those of us who felt the same way about Kamala Harris' departure had been shown the same empathy and time and space that many are now insisting they be given to grieve Warren's departure.
I especially wish that everyone explaining the role that sexism played in Warren's inability to continue in the race had been as willing to recognize the role that sexism and racism played in Harris' inability to continue her campaign. Instead, we were told to stop complaining: "race and gender had nothing to do with it," "she was playing by the same rules as everyone else," "she just didn't have what it takes," "no one forced her out of the race, it was her choice," etc.
The playing field is NOT level for women and people of color, and female and minority candidates do have a more difficult time and face considerably greater obstacles that white male candidates simply don't have to deal with. And pretending this doesn't exist or telling the people who try to explain it that we are overreacting only compounds and ingrains the problem. And recognizing its existence only in certain instances while ignoring and dismissing it in others is disrespectful to allies and further rubs salt in the wounds.
Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar were treated differently than the men in the race. Period. It's not certain any of them would have gotten the nomination if it had been a fair fight, but I do know that gender and race got in the way and ensured we'll never know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
spicysista
(1,663 posts)Beautifully expressed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Will not vote for another woman. I really wanted EW to win.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)However our country is still behind when it comes to women leaders. This is why I believe that Biden will pick a strong progressive Dem woman to run as VP. The country needs to see a woman in a leadership position. Do I like it? No. But this will help a woman be ready to take over.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Totally enamored by Rachel's interview with Warren last night.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Boomer
(4,159 posts)EW would have made a wonderful president, and she was my favorite candidate for this primary.
Waking up this morning to find her photo gone from my DU profile/sig was like a gut punch.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ohiogal
(31,669 posts)I just dont understand how she didnt absolutely run away with the nomination.
I wonder if I will ever see a woman president in my.lifetime.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)limited his accomplishments in office, a lot, imo.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pazzyanne
(6,518 posts)Almost 250 years and we still don't recognize women for the role they have played in the founding and development of this country. Elizabeth Warren would have given us one of the most intelligent, insightful and compassionate President in our history. I am in tears just writing this!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)Especially, for Kamala, the abrupt pivots to Who will she endorse? - as if that was the most important feature of her candidacy.
Thanks for this post, Starfish.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)it is very important who she endorsed. Beating trump was the main reason folks gave as important on Super Tuesday.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lordsummerisle
(4,649 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cary
(11,746 posts)My priority is to shit can Orange Hitler in part because he is racist. I am a white male but I have as much at stake here as anyone. I will not apologize for supporting the person whom I believe to have the best chance of removing traitors and Nazis and restoring our democracy. That is simply an unreasonable and wholly unnecessary demand.
The collective will of our party, our coalition, is good. We are diverse. We are worthy. I celebrate and applaud that. You should do that too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LaurenOlimina
(1,165 posts)But consider your virtue signaled.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)Perhaps sometimes we look so hard for things we see them when they are not even there? I have no idea.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)"...those of us who felt the same way about Kamala Harris' departure had been shown the same empathy and time and space that many are now insisting they be given to grieve Warren's departure. v
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
"Like many women, I'm deeply disappointed Warren's out of the race."
You do understand that refers to the primary race, right?
When she discusses racism and sexism, she isn't accusing Joe Biden of being racist. It's more of a systemic argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cary
(11,746 posts)And I was clear both times, so I will not respond to your straw.man.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)"Joe Biden is a racist" out of that sentence. Is it because the name "Kamala Harris" appears in that sentence?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)The OP suggested that sexism and racism were at play in the primary. I vehemently disagree.
Can I disagree without being accused of "virtue signaling?"
I am proud to be a Democrat. I oppose Democrat bashing. If you have a problem with that then you have a problem, not me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)sexist and racist to each other. I mean, there may have been a little of that between the candidates. I am not the best judge of that. However, I suspect that she was mainly referring more to the huge amount of sexism and racism in American society in general and the world in general. This would refer to, for example, both direct sexism and the fear of the impact of sexism.
For example, some people might not vote for Kamala Harris because she was a woman. In addition, some people might not vote for Kamala Harris out of fear that other people might not vote for her. So, even if a voter might not be very sexist himself (or perhaps, herself, who knows?), that voters' fears about the sexism of others could also affect Kamala Harris. The same kind of double whammy could impact Kamala Harris because of her skin color.
So, you could have people not voting for her to become the nominee because they are sexist, people not voting for her out of fears that others might be sexist, people not voting for her because she is Black, and people not voting for her out of the fear that others might not vote for her because she is Black. This is the quadruple whammy that Kamala Harris had to deal with. I suspect that this was what the OP was more focused on.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)Professor Plum wtote: "The bad news is that a lot of people seem to be mistaking her loss in the polls with sexism."
I agree.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)may not fully realize the impact of sexism because we may not fully realize how truly sexist some others in this country are. Here's another way to look at it. Imagine that just 5% of the men in this country are really and truly sexist. There is a small group of White Men in this country that hold an awful lot of wealth in this country, and have an awful lot of power. Unfortunately, a big slice of them are also sexist, and a lot of them are also racist. Without the support of these White men, the odds of a woman, of any color, making it the top are greatly lowered.
There is also a slice of men in this country who are both sexist and racist. I know this because I have dealt with them my entire life. These are the people who are less likely to vote for either a woman or a person of color. Many political races are decided by just a few percentage points, so it does not take a big percentage of people to feel this way in order to prevent many women and people of color from getting elected.
Women are about 51% of the American population. Do they make up 51% of the elected offices that are available in this country? It's not even close to that. So, ask yourself why that is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)Is sexist or racist.
There is such a thing as taking it too far.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)Just because you vote for a white male does not make you racist or sexist. I do no believe that the OP was trying to say that everyone who votes for a white male is racist and/or sexist. There are men, for example, who really are not very racist or sexist at all. I do not believe that OP was not saying that all men are racist or all men are sexist.
I believe that she was saying that sexism and racism are prevalent enough in this country to make a real difference in political races. If just 5% of the men in this country are racist and sexist, that is enough to make the difference, because there might be other people thinking, "Hey, I know this country has racist and sexist people in it, so maybe a woman or a person of color should not be the nominee because that person might lose".
It's not just racism and sexism that makes the difference. It is the fear of racism or sexism making a difference that also makes a difference.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)And we may be talking past each other.
Someone has to win. Personally I don't care at this point. As I keep saying I am a.single issue voter: throw Orange Hitler and his cult out on his ass.
I may be too intolerant of disunity because of that. Or maybe I'm right in that we can address perfecting things after our current crises passes?
So perhaps I am not addressing your point and perhaps you're not addressing mine?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)And then I am attacked personally for disagreeing.
My problem here, as I clearly stated, is that I see the OP as bashing Democrats. I find that judgment to be unfair.
I am entitled to that opinion and also entitled to object to ad hominem and straw man responses.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)Me.
I said that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)I am baffled by that and have not heard a good answer from anyone.
I have not denied that sexism exists, if that is what you're getting at.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)while having difficulty recognizing and acknowledging them in specific, concrete circumstances.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)Instead of speaking about my person in terms of what you think I seem to be, why not address what I actually said?
It's kind an ad hominem when you create a narrative about what I, personally, "seem to see."
You really aren't qualified to condescend to me that way.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
evangelicals teach girls from birth that women belong in the home and do not ever belong in any sort of position where they'd be above a man.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cary
(11,746 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)There is nothing unethical, illegal, or immoral about me not agreeing 100% with you. Is there?
I support women but go ahead and bash me and alienate me. That will help your cause immensely.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)I was debating a fine point that apparently is a bridge too far for certain emotional people.
Granted, my frustration is an emotion too. As a Jew I don't seek to alienate my allies and I don't get it when people with whom I 90% agree attack me and diminish me because I have an honest difference of opinion on the 10%. I don't operate that way and as a member of a tiny minority I don't get it when others react in an illogical manner.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)absolutely were in play. What makes you think it was not?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)don't have as much at stake as women, and specifically BIPOC women. Good grief.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Who made you the judge? You don't even know me yet you feel you can tell me that I have less.at stake?
Geez yourself.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)Who's legislating your body?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)Who's destroying the rule of law that I live.by? Who's destroying federal land? Who's undermining everything with incessant lying and corruption?
I have a wife and two daughters.
Sorry but as a fellow human being I decree that I have as much at stake as you or anyone else, and I further renew my decree that you are way out of line in trying to diminish me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)because the things you listed are a shared reality we *all* face. You are rightfully concerned about those things, those things concern me as well.
But on top of the things you listed, your reproductive rights aren't up for dispute, you aren't 3xs more likely to die in childbirth, you aren't more likely to be racially profiled and jailed, etc., those are just facts that women and BIPOC face daily and you don't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)must deal with additional challenges.
The bottom line is that the problems you identified are problems for everyone - and they aren't targeted at you because of your race or gender.
In other words, you may have problems that make life more difficult for you, but those problems have nothing to do with you being a white male.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)I hate these discussions. I deal in facts and logic, not emotions and logical fallacies.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LaurenOlimina
(1,165 posts)I've heard all of these yesterday except race.
" stop complaining: "race and gender had nothing to do with it," "she was playing by the same rules as everyone else," "she just didn't have what it takes," "no one forced her out of the race, it was her choice,"
That said, you aren't wrong. Klobuchar didn't get much consideration either, nor Gillibrand.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)But the cover story for her departure was money. Odd how Biden only needed vocal support from James Clyburn to activate the base that got him over the edge, but the same demographics would have had to give heavy financially to bolster Kamala Harris and Cory Booker.
Maybe it does come down to reading the rules and playing the game?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
eilen
(4,950 posts)has built over the years. He has a history with his colleagues that Warren, Klobuchar, Harris and Booker haven't yet built. Add to that his experience in the Executive branch.
Ultimately, Warren had a very poor showing on Super Tuesday with voters and there was no pathway.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)gender and racial bias - Biden, by virtue of his white male privilege, had the opportunity to build up relationships and foster a "history with his colleagues that Warren, Klobuchar, Harris and Booker haven't yet built." And his experience in the executive branch - i.e., being Vice President - is also another advantage heretofore available exclusively to white men.
As I said in another post:
Elizabeth Warren, who is close to Biden's and Bernie's ages, had no opportunity to become a Senator in the early 1970s. Like many women of her age, she had to take a different path - in her case, she raised a family and then went into academia, a field open to smart, talented women when politics was still very restricted.
But while academia was open to women, like many endeavors that women were able to excel in, it is not treated as a "real" qualification for high public office. So, when Warren did finally get a chance to run for office, she had to start proving herself without the advantage of pointing to the previous 40 years of her experience, as Biden could do.
Biden had 40+ years and Bernie had three decades to establish themselves. Warren had to start from scratch only a few years ago.
And that additional time in the public arena bought Biden and Bernie a lot of goodwill and second chances that Warren (and Harris and Klobuchar) didn't have. When the the men made mistakes and gaffes, they were often brushed away with "Oh, that's just Biden!" and "We all know what Bernie meant." When the women did the same, they were criticized, scrutinized and subjected to endless discussion about whether they were ready or had what it takes. While it was assumed that, of course, the men could be taken seriously as candidates and they were able to focus all of their interviews and airtime on what they would do as president, the women had to spend a significant part of their interviews and airtime answering endless questions about whether America was ready for anyone of their gender to be president (and Kamala got the double whammy of having to explain, ad nauseum, why she thought America was ready for a black woman to be president).
These and other things handicapped the women and made it more difficult for them to get a foothold and deliver their message. Voters didn't need to engage in overtly racist and sexist decisionmaking in order for racism and sexism to affect the campaign and their vote.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=642287
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)I think the extra large field of candidates was the only reason Elizabeth Warren didn't have a large enough early 'piece of the pie'. Her rallies were packed with supporters with many great speeches. She's brilliant, we Americans are so fortunate EW will always be on our side.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
duforsure
(11,882 posts)Are very disappointed the American people didn't back her run. She in my opinion was the most intelligent, compassionate honest candidate running, and would have made one of the greatest presidents in our times. American people's lost.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)to pick a woman of color as VP. Women of color have to deal with seemingly double the garbage that White women and Men of Color deal with. I'd still pretty be happy if Biden picked a woman as VP who also happened to be White. Warren, for example, would make an awesome President or VP. However, a Black woman as VP would also say to Black America, "Hey, we are there for you too".
I hope Biden wins, and I hope that he makes the 4000 appointments that has to make as President completely represent the rainbow of colors, national origins, and lifestyles that makes America beautiful.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)Kamala Harris
Stacey Abrams
Val Demings
to name just 3.
But is it really necessary? I think it's necessary to choose a woman as a running mate. Which one of the many (Senators, Reps, Governors) would carry the most votes in the most states?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Wounded Bear
(58,440 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
johnthewoodworker
(694 posts)based on their demographic particulars. I look at their character and stance on issues. I thought, and think, Elizabeth Warren is the superior candidate. She is an empathic, sharp, human being. I feel that Bernie and Joe are a step down from her level.
As always, I'll support the democratic nominee, but her dropping out is a significant loss.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LaurenOlimina
(1,165 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)Seems some still don't get it, so I'm posting this again.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LaurenOlimina
(1,165 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MD shmoo
(34 posts)There were two core reasons why she's out of the race. First, her stunning inability to give straight answers to simple questions like "would your healthcare plan raise taxes?" It simply does not matter if that was a "gotcha" question or if she was looking at things from the perspective of total costs. When you have someone in your ideological lane that is honest to a fault and to his sometimes detriment (Bernie willing to admit taxes will go up for M4A, or that Cuba is to be admired in some respects like their education system, etc.) that makes you look like a weasel in comparison. With the sheer volume of lying done by Trump, giving the impression that you're willing to lie or avoid tough questions but to a lesser degree just doesn't fly. And yeah it's not like Joe is without fault here, but he's generally perceived to say untruthful/misleading things because "it's a gaffe" instead of deliberately misleading. People can seemingly forgive untruths like "I was arrested in South Africa seeing Nelson Mandela" easier than they can not answering simple yes/no questions about taxes and such.
Secondly she tried and failed to create a narrative of being a "uniter" who can offer something to both big camps in the current Dem party. To those wanting big structural changes with zero compromises made (Bernie) she was a pale imitation that offered nothing Bernie did not. And to those wanting a "return to normalcy" and feeling burnt out by the constant and wearisome shitshow that is the Trump presidency, she didn't represent the boring/stable parental figure that will allow them to not need to worry about and focus on politics 24/7, for whom Joe is the "don't worry I got this" candidate (for right or wrong). In so doing she didn't satisfy the core yearnings of either camp.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/03/05/elizabeth-warren-quits-2020-democratic-race-but-women-can-win-column/4962971002/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ismnotwasm
(41,921 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MD shmoo
(34 posts)So your position is the party that nominated Hillary Clinton as its POTUS candidate in just the last cycle has somehow become incredibly more misogynist in the past 4 years? If you can't acknowledge the very real issues I pointed out in my post you quoted about Warren's inability to give straight answers and not being in sync with the mood of the times and want to rely on "it's misogyny!" then you're doing a grave disservice to future women candidates. You're giving a pass for the next Warren to say "I can be less than honest and that's OK because my primary obstacle is that I'm a woman." At some point you need to say "there are minimal standards we hold all our candidates to regardless of sex, and that includes honesty."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Do you also believe that the the fact that Barack Obama was elected president is proof that racism no longer exists in America?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(41,921 posts)And Im done arguing basic sociology and societal societal power structures today.
Instead, Im going to go participate in one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)women lost because of sexism which is absurd. There is little doubt that Warren is a true master at knowledge of issues. She is highly verbal with an amazing level of instant recall. Yet imho she wasn't savvy enough to realize she couldn't unilaterally trash all big business without alienating many people. Those who actually work in business and those in the middle who are far more comfortable with incremental change.
She and Bernie would be laughed out of any boardroom asking for trillions without presenting a phased in, incremental plan with constraints and full financial proformas. Like what you would do with the millions of workers in private health care for instance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MD shmoo
(34 posts)Evidently gender is the only qualification that matters to some. It just cannot possibly be that voters looked at his decades of Senate experience and 8 years being VP to her 7 years of only Senate experience and chose him on the merits. Nope the only possible reason to pick the more experienced candidate was misogyny.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)for him than the others. People have found in Joe, the antithesis of trump. Joe is good, kind, decent, trustworthy. Plus he has a lifetime of experience in government both domestically and internationally. He will get us over the hump (trump) restore honor and dignity and reverse all the damage trump has caused. Step one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)and not being a "uniter," take a good look at Sanders, who has never been able to explain how he expects to pay for his very expensive proposals - indeed, Bernie is a master at avoiding straight answers - and is probably the furthest from a unifying candidate of any of them. But he gets away with it where she didn't, even though he's much worse.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MD shmoo
(34 posts)that Bernie seems to get a pass for being evasive, but is that really what you want for Warren (and our country in turn)? Trump supporters and Bernie Bros both have the ability to "look past" the omissions and truth massaging of their preferred candidate to hear what they want to hear from them. Is that something to be admired and voted for in other candidates going forward? I personally don't think it should. While I understand frustration that "Warren is being held to a higher standard" I think that's a problem of perspective the frustration isn't "why do Trump and Bernie get held to lower standards?"
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)Especially when Bernie has elevated evasiveness almost to an art form while Warren was at least able to present some specifics about her proposals. Women are always held to higher, if not impossible, standards and are criticized for not meeting them, while men who don't even come close get a pass. Bernie is Exhibit A.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MD shmoo
(34 posts)While I know that's a rhetorical question, there are some plausible reasons.
1. He's not getting a pass. Bernie is getting the votes of about 25% or primary voters who will choose the perceived "most progressive" candidate in the race no matter what. The "grownups" portion of the electorate actually cares about truth and answering questions rather than evasion and have not voted for him in turn (thus the Biden surge).
2. The progressive ideological lane doesn't represent a majority of the party, and she and Bernie split that minority. Once the 'moderate" lane cleared for Biden then we saw him surge ahead via consolidating those votes which represent a majority of the current Dem primary voters. In this hypothetical even if Bernie wasn't running she still might not win against a "moderate."
3. Bernie voters have a similar profile to Ron Paul voters a few years ago, it's a cult of personality thing where factors like evasiveness just don't matter to them.
4. Some voters have come to see politics as a form of entertainment. Trump acting like a moron is entertaining to some folks just as the TV show "Jackass" was entertaining to some folks (not me). Sanders is entertaining as an "angry old man" stock character and thus is given a pass for the same reason we give a pass to Archie Bunker or Homer Simpson when they're acting like an ass.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JGug1
(320 posts)Correct, the playing field is not level. However, Harris had that business with marijuana where she supposedly laughed when asked if she had used it, after sending users to do hard time. There wasn't a LOT of noise about it but it contributed to her not getting some early votes. She dropped out rather quietly. I would think that she would be a stronger candidate, in the end, than Warren. Warren just has that way of turning every single question into a lecture. I tired of it. We aren't done with Warren or probably Harris. Warren won't, as I have written here before, be on the administration of either Biden or Bernie, should either win. The Dems cannot afford to give up a Senate seat and Mass has a Republican governor who would appoint an interim replacement.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)That right there.
And, by the way, Harris didn't "get some early votes," because she dropped out of the race before anyone actually voted after polling and media coverage sold the proposition that she wasn't "viable."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)How many missteps have Biden (who I heartily support) and Sanders been allowed?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FailureToCommunicate
(13,989 posts)is picked for VP?
But I agree and shared your feelings.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bettie
(15,998 posts)people in person as I was straddling her campaign and Warren's trying to decide. So, I talked to a lot of people every day and we were all angry about it. Race and gender definitely had a lot to do with it, plus, she was an early target of bots.
Apparently, someone was really afraid of her, is really afraid of women in general.
What makes me really angry is that a bunch of men love to tell us, women who have SEEN up close and personal in our lives what misogyny is, that we're imagining it.
We're not and frankly, gaslighting us isn't going to make us suddenly bow down to men and say "Gee, I guess my silly little woman brain didn't see that there is no sexism anywhere, just men trying to keep all the women from making mistakes!".
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MD shmoo
(34 posts)And Warren got 9.2% of the vote. At a certain point claiming misogyny when women were already a majority of voters comes across like this:
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Welcome to DU. I hope you enjoy your stay.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bettie
(15,998 posts)I guess all of us little women just need to go back to the kitchen and make some sandwiches or something and not worry our little minds about politics and government.
I'm at the end of my rope with this crap.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bettie
(15,998 posts)do dislike and distrust other women, because they have been taught to do so from the cradle.
Evangelical and very religious women, even among Democrats, tend to believe that women don't belong in government.
Also, why NH in particular? Whatever. I don't care what you think, random dude on the internet.
But, just to make you feel better: You are right. There is no such thing as misogyny or sexism, it's all us silly women imagining thing because we're hysterical and don't always recognize the innate superiority of men.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MD shmoo
(34 posts)Okay let's try some other states and let's see if there's a pattern (see below). Women a majority of voters in basically every state, and Warren capturing around 11% of votes. Warren rising in the Real Clear Politics polling average throughout the summer (8% in May up to 26% and the lead in early October), then falling off a cliff in October after being called out on her non-answer about tax increases related to her M4A plan. In her campaign autopsy you can easily pinpoint the cause of death to this exact moment.
CA - women 57% of voters, Warren vote share 12.2% (3rd place) https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/election-results/california-democratic-primary-live-results/
TX - women 56% of voters, Warren vote share 11.4% (4th place) https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/election-results/texas-democratic-primary-live-results/
VA - women 57% of voters, Warren vote share 10.8% (3rd place) https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/election-results/virginia-democratic-primary-live-results/
CO - women 56% of voters, Warren vote share 17.6% (4th place) https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/election-results/colorado-democratic-primary-live-results/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brer cat
(24,402 posts)for Kamala. She was my first choice and I am still grieving.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Harris was my choice from day one, and Warren and Amy were in my top four along with Jay Inslee, he is my governor.
I hope Harris gets the VP with Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
llashram
(6,265 posts)is presented again on this forum and by god your message WILL BE IGNORED. I know that the grieving process here is reserved only for the American understanding of who shall be grieved and for how long. Move on nothing to be seen here. American patriarchy, as is racism, is so generationally ingrained that here we are in 2020 and all of us here are aware of the real story and only, even here, a few are willing to start a truthful dialogue and open those closet doors to hopefully air out the dirty closets that continually foul our progress as liberals supposedly having each others backs. Enough said about my opinion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/opinion/sunday/suffrage-movement-racism-black-women.html
https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/celebrate-womens-suffrage-dont-whitewash-movements-racism
https://suffrage100ma.org/ida-b-wells/
https://www.history.com/news/early-womens-rights-movement-beyond-suffrage
Thank you for even mentioning such an important topic that has continually torn up the china shop many many times and rest assured those bulls are still in that china shop waiting for the place to be cleaned up, the interior whitewashed and the china to be replaced.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Harris' withdrawal from the race. I think we all acknowledge the problem. Of the three leading women candidates Warren, Harris and Klobuchar Warren was the most impressive. That's why she lasted the longest and had the money and organization to keep going, had she chosen to.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I was constantly told that whenever I brought it up, as were others.
No, we don't all acknowledge the problem. Just look at some of the comments in this thread.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)That sexism and racism weren't involved in Harris' unsuccessful campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The objective fact is that plenty of people here and elsewhere did indeed dismiss race and gender as factors in Harris' race and withdrawal. If you didn't notice it, you weren't paying attention since it was there, in plain sight, for anyone reading this forum to see.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)
random commenters on social media?
Because if so, you should use the same discount you use on any anonymous poster popping off on unimportant discussion boards.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)The sentiment is right in this very thread. And not just here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
eilen
(4,950 posts)who I felt had too many unrealistic promises. Amy was my reality-based candidate who was not pushing 80 and had a solid background of success in elections and a solid message. I could not figure out why she didn't do better in the polls and the early caucus/primaries. In some forums people point to the hit piece about her being a mean boss (really?--that is sexist) and others pointed to her momentary brain freeze on the telemundo question and that her voice shook or she "got defensive" when Pete challenged her ability because she forgot a name which is also sexist in view of the remaining men who have both exhibited emotional volatility, momentary forgetfulness and defensiveness on the debate floor.
Amy was a champ and she gave an awesome speech and endorsement without needing to dangle it as a negotiating prize for a couple days because the woman knows her worth and doesn't need to play those games. She is a rock sold Democrat. I hope I get an opportunity to vote for her in the future.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fla Dem
(23,352 posts)What will it take to get a female president?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TryLogic
(1,721 posts)I wish Liz had positioned herself as a problem solver rather than a fighter.
I wish Kamala had not positioned herself so strongly as appearing to favor open borders.
I wish Amy had been more progressive.
I wish Booker had been more of a fighter.
I wish the former WA governor had been more charismatic.
etc.
etc.
etc.
But mostly, I am proud of the many high quality candidates who were willing to step up and offer to lead.
I am reassured by the fact that congress makes the laws and approves the budget, not the president. Regardless of who wins, we have our representatives and senators. We must make sure they hear from us often.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)"I wish Booker had been more of a fighter."
Hmm.
Interesting.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bubbazero
(296 posts)first thanks for the op, I too will miss Sen Warren--loved her work and positions in financial regulation of commerce. As resident of Iowa, (sorry), have said this may have been the worst possible year for ANY democratic woman, no matter ideology. One weird factor, not much reported, is Iowa's Democrats recoiling in horror over Republican legislature and Sen Joni Ernst. Between female republican governor, female speaker of Iowa house of representatives, and Sen Joni Ernst, (all female, all horribly conservative) being a female Democratic candidate with ANY kind of idea for significant change has caused some democrats in Iowa to recoil, almost instinctively. I am not an expert, your WISER thoughts, ( I do enjoy your posts), would be appreciated
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)You make an interesting point that is very telling about the situation women face:
So you're saying - and I don't disagree with you - that too many females in office that people don't like cause Democratic voters not to want to vote for a female presidential candidate. Meanwhile, the fact that offices in the state and across the country are filled with incompetent and/or hateful Neanderthal men doesn't make them recoil from voting for other men.
Therein lies a big part of the problem. Just as the fact that Hillary didn't win the White House makes some people reluctant to back any other woman - even though white men lose presidential elections quite regularly yet white men continue to be nominated - also highlights a significant challenge that women and minorities must face. We are consistently judged and underestimated by the failures of other women and minorities while white men are bolstered and given the benefit of the doubt based on the successes of other white men.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bubbazero
(296 posts)She's redhead and Danish--(Viking with anger management issues) to your response--the last sentence---WE ARE CONSISTENTLY JUDGED AND UNDERESTIMATED BY THE FAILURES OF OTHER WOMEN AND MINORITIES WHILE WHITE MEN ARE BOLSTERED AND GIVEN THE BENEFEIT BASED ON THE SUCCESS OF OTHER WHITE MEN. Absolutely, in fact one could remove the specifics clearly outlined in that statement and have the basis for a good general description of the stupidity of irrational discrimination of ANY kind. (race, gender, age, appearance, socio-economic background. etc) No time for me to try now, but would love to read your's if you have time-- and I will try later for my education
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Happy Hoosier
(7,081 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)they will either get to be part of Biden's administration or continue their excellent work in the Senate. But it's pretty obvious from the way all of them were treated in the debates and in a lot of media coverage that there is still a lot of sexism and misogyny out there. I also hope Warren endorses Biden and not Sanders because, as the president of NOW just pointed out, Sanders has done almost nothing for women. https://www.newsweek.com/warren-urged-national-organization-women-not-endorse-sanders-1490872
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)The playing field was designed by straight white men.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Initech
(99,915 posts)Warren would make a great VP no matter who the presidential nominee is - whether it's Biden or Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,041 posts)We need some of these conglomerates broken up. They never should have been allowed to consolidate in the first place.
Charlie Rose and Matt Lauer are out, but they are just the tip of this iceberg.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hekate
(90,202 posts)It's a brutal process, and yes, it is sexist as hell.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Peacetrain
(22,836 posts)not less empathy for Harris, and for the supporters of Kamala..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)I mourned Harris' exit deeply. I'm disappointed even more now, most likely because Warren went the furthest. Devastated for Klobuchar because she deserved way more attention and respect than she got any step of the way.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)then I went to Liz then Amy and then back to Liz.
I felt the loss of Kamala deeply....but because there were other women still in the field and Kamala seemingly made the decision without facing primary losses, I guess I didn't see it as much as a rejection of the female candidate but rather a decision by one female candidate. But after the last woman standing was gone and the results of the primaries showed that this country is so completely misogynist, it hurt worse because it seems to show there is no hope even for the future. I expect that i will die without ever having a woman president.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kimbutgar
(20,882 posts)And told me she was sad to see the women drop out. She will vote for Biden now because she thinks Bernie is a communist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,729 posts)Or Booker or Castro and soon Sanders
because they railroaded Al Franken.
No misogyny. Simple fact.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)It didn't matter!!! It's ALL about what people say and do and the way they act.
We are light years from selecting candidates based on gender and what they look like.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,729 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)I have a lot more to say, but got frustrated by some of the replies.
Just thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NNadir
(33,368 posts)Any of the three original woman Senators in the race would be excellent.
I personally prefer Senator Harris, because she's young, smart and ethnic.
Senator Warren is definitely an intellectual powerhouse.
I'm less familiar with Amy Klobuchar, but overall I have a very favorable opinion of her.
Stacy Abrams would be good as well.
I personally didn't care who got the nomination as long as it wasn't Sanders, but if I'd had my druthers, I would have loved to see a woman wipe the floor with Trump. I'm fine with Joe Biden, but I would have preferred a woman.
We need to break this steel ceiling, for sure, if not in this election, then ASAP.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)When, and how, do we level the playing field? Been asking this question for more than 40 years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And I know you mean well, but I'm tired of being asked that question.
It's time for people to start taking responsible for coming up with their own answers. We all have a role to play and the burden shouldn't be out on individual black people to find the solutions - especially since we didn't create the problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
GoneOffShore
(17,309 posts)her campaign.
But ... still.
The message needed to be sent.
There were at least two votes for her today.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LizBeth
(9,946 posts)I agree. I saw what was happening to Harris and pissed as hell, as each camp was fighting over her, just as I see now with Warren. It is good to have more voices, but it is an often repeated battle, going back to the inherent sexism in our society and the obstacles women have. Beating my head on the wall for a decade now. I call it damn tired of having to continually go back to feminism 101. We should be well past this and we obviously are not. We have to have a woman VP.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,136 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
turbinetree
(24,632 posts)than the men in the race. Period.
You nailed it and also the media got in the way..............................
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatrickforO
(14,516 posts)It's funny on here - we all have these handles, and some, like mine, point you right away to gender. Not that it is particularly important.
But I really always thought of you as being male until this very post.
By the way, I loved Warren too, and she'd have made a wonderful president. She's is a great lady, and to my mind has replaced Teddy as the Lion of the Senate.
Now, sadly, this election will be a battle between septuagenarian white men.
I could have gotten behind Booker, too. I think he'd have been fine. Or Buttigieg for that matter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democrank
(11,052 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided