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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:06 AM

 

The Clarity of a Smaller Field

Getting down to just two main candidates is a great opportunity for us, as a party, to really examine the remaining candidates with greater detail than has been possible prior to this. With just two candidates, we can really ask ourselves some important questions, and evaluate them carefully:

Who stands a better chance to beat Donald Trump?

We can examine which of the two candidates:

Appears to be sharper, more with it
Speaks with more clarity
Can better call out Trump's fake economic populism
Can better call out Trump's nepotism
Is less likely to try to "work with" the GOP, the way Obama tried to
Is more likely to appeal to undecided, independent, and disaffected voters

Who has backed economic policies that help more Americans?

We can examine which of the two candidates:

Is more likely to fight hard against economic injustice
Is more likely to fight to curtail the fraud in the financial system
Is more likely to fight for healthcare solutions that will be more affordable for most people


etc. etc. It is a great opportunity for all of us.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

49 replies, 1050 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Clarity of a Smaller Field (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 OP
LaurenOlimina Mar 6 #1
brooklynite Mar 6 #2
Just_Vote_Dem Mar 6 #26
honest.abe Mar 6 #3
NCProgressive Mar 6 #4
Hav Mar 6 #5
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #7
Hav Mar 6 #25
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #32
FreeState Mar 6 #33
PatSeg Mar 6 #40
mcar Mar 13 #44
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #6
William769 Mar 6 #11
NCProgressive Mar 6 #13
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #15
NCProgressive Mar 6 #18
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #21
NCProgressive Mar 6 #23
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #31
ehrnst Mar 7 #43
JudyM Mar 6 #38
democrattotheend Mar 6 #30
HotTeaBag Mar 6 #34
democrattotheend Mar 6 #36
HotTeaBag Mar 6 #37
democrattotheend Mar 6 #39
HotTeaBag Mar 6 #41
Happy Hoosier Mar 6 #8
Thekaspervote Mar 6 #12
democrattotheend Mar 6 #42
DownriverDem Mar 6 #9
beastie boy Mar 6 #10
LanternWaste Mar 6 #14
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #17
OnDoutside Mar 6 #16
ProfessorPlum Mar 6 #19
OnDoutside Mar 6 #24
ehrnst Mar 6 #28
SidDithers Mar 6 #20
TexasTowelie Mar 6 #22
ehrnst Mar 6 #27
Demsrule86 Mar 13 #47
Gothmog Mar 13 #48
ehrnst Mar 13 #49
democrattotheend Mar 6 #29
MineralMan Mar 6 #35
zackymilly Mar 13 #45
Demsrule86 Mar 13 #46

Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:27 AM

1. Oh I can't wait to see the replies to this one.

 

I'm glad you called out the pre-compromised position Obama often took. He should have seen them for what they were far earlier.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:28 AM

2. I plan to focus on which one can get elected...

 

I suspect most Democratic voters will as well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 12:20 PM

26. This n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:32 AM

3. Yes, it is.. the "Bernie wing" vs everyone else in Democratic Party.

 

Which translates to approximately 35% (Bernie wing) vs 65% (the rest).
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:32 AM

4. Repeating right wing smears?

 



Appears to be sharper, more with it
Speaks with more clarity


That is a veiled attempt to besmirch Biden's mental acuity -- a smear started by Tucker Carlson and amplified by Fox News

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:36 AM

5. The made up Hunter Biden scandal

 

was hinted at as well with the nepotism point.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hav (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:50 AM

7. Why aren't you supporting Democrats?

 

This post should be flagged. The proper answer is Biden is better equipped to deal with charges of nepotism than Sanders.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 12:17 PM

25. You aren't good at this with your failed attempts to troll

 

But I'll still point out that you talk about flagging other posts while you are the one trying to take advantage of rightwing ratfckery. You aren't being clever with this shit.
On the other side, it's this kind of antagonistic nonsense why the Democratic base has rejected BS.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hav (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 04:08 PM

32. I'm trying to highlight the bullshit of posts removed for not supporting Democrats

 

but whatever.

Really - it is time that we evaluate Biden with our eyes open, now that the party leaders have picked him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 04:13 PM

33. Voters Party leaders?

 

Or we all sheep?

Seriously offensive line of thinking there.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:34 PM

40. The African American voters of South Carolina

 

would probably disagree with you on that. They believe that they, the voters, picked their candidate. That is rather insulting.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 13, 2020, 07:14 PM

44. Party leaders?

 

WTF are you talking about? Democratic voters are picking.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:49 AM

6. Why are you criticizing Biden? I should flag this post

 

the proper response is "Biden speaks more sharply and with more clarity than Sanders".

Otherwise, you aren't supporting Democrats.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:58 AM

11. Trump is very good at double speak & making up down & down up.

 

Just saying.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:24 AM

13. Even bringing up sharpness and clarity as a difference

 

as well as "nepotism" are veiled criticisms of Joe Biden based upon right wing smears.

Those are not the policy differences. You can highlight policy differences all you want but what you did was pick things from a right wing playbook.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:47 AM

15. "policy differences"? Do you mean that theoretically if I pointed out that Biden

 

has been trying to reduce Social Security for decades, that that post wouldn't be flagged and pulled down in 5 minutes?

There is nothing veiled in what I wrote. This is a great chance for us to actually compare and contrast the two candidates - strategies, policies, and personas.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:52 AM

18. Biden has not been trying to reduce social security

 

Another right-wing and David Sirota smear.

It proves that Sanders' campaign has no positive attributes to tout whatsoever in order to win. Their only chance is to smear Biden with falsehoods and RW talking points.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:56 AM

21. or you could take 10 seconds and google it

 

see https://www.factcheck.org/2020/01/biden-vs-sanders-on-social-security-and-medicare/ for a good start
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:59 AM

23. A facebook group is not the source of anything reliable

 

(AGAIN!)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 7, 2020, 10:55 AM

43. That link does not support any of your claims about Biden...take 5 minutes to read it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:30 PM

38. I see what you did there.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 02:48 PM

30. Sorry, but that is not a right wing smear

 

It's one of my big concerns about Biden. I started rewatching his 2012 debate with Paul Ryan to be sure I wasn't imagining things, but so far, from what I've watched it confirms my recollection that he was sharper back then. He stumbled a little bit and he's always been gaffe-prone, but I don't remember him sounding like he couldn't remember what he was saying halfway through a sentence like he does now. Will watch the rest of the debate this weekend for more clarity.

I like Joe, and I will happily support him if he is the nominee. I may even vote for him in the primary. But I have questions about whether he is up for it mentally, and even assuming he is, will he inspire enough confidence in voters and be able to effectively challenge Trump on competence when he is bumbling and stumbling so much? I don't see how this is any less valid of an issue than Bernie not releasing his cardiologist's records.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to democrattotheend (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 04:24 PM

34. I agree.

 

I support Joe (not my first choice but my choice now), but I am concerned about his mental acuity and I don't think it's a right wing smear either. I think almost everyone who's watched the debates, town halls or his televised interviews is thinking the same thing: is he alright and can he make it through the debates with Bernie, then Trump? And of course, if he is elected and he's experiencing a mental decline, how will he be in two years, or four?

It is concerning and shouldn't be ignored or run away from - the stakes are too high and our choices too few.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to HotTeaBag (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:00 PM

36. I really wish Warren hadn't dropped out

 

She could have drawn such a stark competence contrast with Trump in the debates that I don't think either Bernie or Biden can to the same degree. I know that didn't work for Hillary in 2016, but it did work for Obama in 2008 during the financial crisis (although McCain was nowhere near as inept sounding as Trump), and I think it could work now with the corona virus crisis calling Trump's leadership ability into question on something that effects everyone.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to democrattotheend (Reply #36)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:29 PM

37. I too wish Warren hadn't dropped out

 

for the reason you mentioned as well as I really felt that she would make the best President from all on offer.

I actually see her as a nice blending of both Bernie and Joe, progressive enough to really move the needle forward but pragmatic enough to work within the system to get it done: and tough as nails.

I would have been SO proud to pull the lever for her in November, now I'll just be pulling the lever marked 'D'.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to HotTeaBag (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:32 PM

39. Exactly

 

I get why she dropped out, but I really think she should have soldiered on for a few more primaries and one more debate with just the three of them. She would have really shined in that situation and probably increased her margins going forward in a smaller field where the two remaining choices were both old white men, one of whom is a good man and clearly knowledgeable but sometimes seems incoherent, and the other who just keeps pivoting to the same talking points without always addressing what's actually being asked.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to democrattotheend (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:45 PM

41. Absolutely.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:53 AM

8. Bernie has always had intense, but narrow support.

 

His failing as a candidate and politician is his inability to expand his coalition. Is it policy? Is it the candidate?

A bit of both, IMO. But in the end, if Bernie can't build support among potential political allies, and can't actually deliver the electoral "revolution," then what is his case for leadership?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:58 AM

12. This

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:56 PM

42. I really wish he hadn't run this year

 

I'm glad he ran in 2016 and showed that someone as unapologetically progressive as he was could mount a serious campaign, and that it was possible to raise enough money to mount a credible campaign without doing any high dollar closed door fundraisers. Cringeworthy supporters at the convention aside, I feel he changed the party for the better and I was proud to be a part of it.

But this year, Elizabeth Warren offered the opportunity to nominate someone equally progressive (or pretty damn close) without being hampered by the socialist label and without burning so many bridges. I wish he'd let her carry the torch and represent the progressive viewpoint (which is what he wanted in 2016 when he encouraged her to run, only running himself when she refused) instead of splitting the vote with her and turning some of his supporters against her (though I don't think that was necessarily his intent, since from what I recall, they were mostly civil to each other except that one little spat over whether he said a woman couldn't win).

It's disappointing because I think once upon a time, he cared more about advancing the progressive agenda than his own ambitions, but the allure of being in the spotlight and having some real power in and after 2016 after being mostly on the sidelines for so long went to his head, unfortunately.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:56 AM

9. Bernie's base of support

 

is in the 30s. He never improved it either. And he's not a true Dem.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:57 AM

10. Tulsi?

 

Just asking...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:36 AM

14. Also, "who told us he would continue attacking the Democratic establishment...?"

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:52 AM

17. ? not sure what this means

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:52 AM

16. Are they the full list of questions we can ask ourselves, or is this for a targeted response ?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:53 AM

19. ask away - I'm not in charge of anyone's questions

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 12:11 PM

24. Great, thanks ! Could you add these to the list ?

 

Add this to the "Who stands a better chance to beat Donald Trump?"

1 - How can a candidate be viable when they promise to "bring out the youth vote" in the General Election, yet spectacularly failed to do so in the Primaries ?

2 - How can a candidate be viable when they did a worse job at attracting Black voters, than they did 4 years ago ?

Add this to the "Who has backed economic policies that help more Americans?"

1 - Who delivered the biggest tax increase on the wealthy, since the 50s ?

2 - Who delivered Healthcare for millions in the last 10 years ?

3 - Who has costed their Health proposals, and not plucked it out of the air ?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 02:06 PM

28. +1000.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:54 AM

20. Staffing is a key point of difference...

 

Trump has gutted the staffing at Federal agencies. Those agencies need to be restaffed . Which candidate will be able to hit the ground running and has experience with putting quality people into place.

And which one has hired people like Sirota, Turner and Joy-Gray.

Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 11:58 AM

22. I really don't think Bernie can address Trump about nepotism without appearing hypocritical

 

since he hired his stepson to run the Sanders Institute. It also doesn't help that while Jane Sanders was president of Burlington College, she diverted $500K to her daughter's woodworking school. There might also be some questions about how much Bernie has paid Jane for her services in previous election campaigns.

Trump will tear Bernie apart if the issue of nepotism is raised so I can't say that Bernie has an advantage there.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 02:06 PM

27. ....

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 13, 2020, 07:22 PM

47. Sanders looks awful...he needs to get out for health reasons.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 13, 2020, 08:54 PM

48. Where are sanders health records?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #48)

Fri Mar 13, 2020, 08:54 PM

49. Where no one can see them but his physician. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 02:40 PM

29. I don't think it's quite that simple

 

Some of these are points that weigh in Bernie's favor, but on the other hand, this post is pretty one-sided and doesn't ask questions like which candidate:

- Uses a label that scares a lot of people even assuming (big assumption) the policies themselves don't?
- Has spent so much time attacking the party establishment (sometimes with justification) that they may go through the motions of nominating and supporting him but not go all in the way they would for any other nominee?
- Hasn't shown the ability to connect with black voters who are vital to the party?
- Hasn't convinced people he can be effective by making deals and working with people who disagree with him (I believe Bernie can and would do this, but he's chosen to downplay his ability to compromise and either hasn't tried or hasn't been successful at getting a lot of endorsements even from progressive leaders)?
- Has pretty much taken Florida out of contention with his statements about Castro (even though I personally agree with him to a point)?

FWIW, my post is only one-sided because yours is. I haven't decided who I am voting for now that Warren's out. There are a lot of things I do like about Bernie, but the list above are some of my concerns and some counterweights against your electability arguments.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2020, 04:25 PM

35. Nice try...

 

Won't work.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 13, 2020, 07:15 PM

45. Who's getting the most votes? n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Mar 13, 2020, 07:21 PM

46. There were two candidates who ran last Tuesday...Sanders lost all but some tiny state...

 

the math is the math...Sanders is done...he only hurts our efforts to oust Trump by staying in...I look forward to watching Sanders creamed next Tuesday...particularly in Florida...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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